Dan Majerle Was a Starter, Y'all
by Tom Ziller on Oct 6, 2009 4:31 AM PDT
in Commentary
Email
PrintPaul Westphal to Sam Amick regarding Sean May starting over Spencer Hawes:
"A lot of times the most important players on the team, the guys that don't start, they might lead the team in minutes," [Westphal] said. "I had Dan Majerle one year (in Phoenix), and he led the team in minutes and never started a game. It's not who starts, it's who gets the minutes, who's effective and who finishes. That's the thing. I know people like to put extra importance on the starting lineup. But believe me, that's not as important as who gets the job done."
Westphal coached Majerle for three seasons in Phoenix. In the first year, 1992-93, Majerle did lead the team in total minutes (3,199) and minutes per game (39.0). But Majerle started all 82 games.
In 1993-94, Majerle led the Suns in minutes played (3,207) and minutes per game (40.1). But Majerle started 76 of 80 games.
In 1994-95, Majerle led the Suns in minutes player (3,091) and minutes per game (37.7). But Majerle did start 46 of 82 games. In the 46 starts, Majerle averaged 40 mpg. In the 36 bench appearances, Majerle averaged 34 mpg. Those 46 starts were enough to disqualify Majerle from sixth man of the year competition, and also to disqualify the statement "I had Dan Majerle one year, and he led the team in minutes and never started a game" from being true.
This is a very minor thing, and I'm not worked up about Hawes coming off the bench today or October 28. Westphal is accurate in his general sentiment: you can get plenty of minutes off the bench, and the late fourth quarter line-up is typically more indicative of team quality than the starting five. I agree on those counts. I have toyed with Kevin Martin off-the-bench before.
But that doesn't make Westphal's recollection any more accurate. Full-time bench players just don't lead their team in minutes. It's almost impossible, unless you have five really awful starters.
UPDATE: A smart man suggested to me Westphal might be referring to Majerle's 1991-92 season, when Westphal was still an assistant to Cotton Fitzsimmons. That season, Majerle started 15 of 82 games, made the All-Star team, and finished third on the Suns in minutes played and minutes per game (behind Jeff Hornacek and Kevin Johnson). While it still doesn't match Westphal's theory perfectly, it does bolster his assertion that you can be primarily a bench player and play tons of minutes.
That said, as I said, this is not a big deal, and I won't be outraged if Hawes doesn't start on October 28, assuming Westphal sees merit in bringing him off the bench. And while I acknowledge there's a snarky tone to the post, I don't feel I'm being unduly harsh by doing a double-take on a surprising quote, finding out the quoted assertion is incorrect, and writing about it.
26 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This feels like "gotcha" to me.
I mean, it’s five paragraphs of “your pants are on fire,” and then, “but it probably doesn’t mean anything.”
And I can live with that. What worries me is that we may soon see johnnyfive916’s fan post, Comment on what you think are Paul Westphal’s Top 5 lies about Dan Majerle’s playing time.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Not so much as "your pants are on fire"
as wanting to show my work. The claim was so preposterous to me that I felt the need to research it at 4 AM. I would have been amazed to find out a bench player led the team in minutes, because I’ve never heard of that happening.
Good work
Somebody has to keep people honest… StR and you, as that place and person, should definitely get the attention of people making such statements.
I am sure he was trying to lesson the blow to Spence’s ego, but would have preferred him saying that people that don’t practice don’t play. That is just basic common sense. Spence has not practiced cause of his ankle and should not play until it is worked out.
If he had to lie then the ankle would have been a much better one…
I agree with the DJ
The punishment way exceeds the crime. It comes off like “I take exception to you starting May ahead of Spence and so I’m going to get my revenge by blasting you for speaking loosely.”
If things have run more smoothly with May, then start him. If Spence needs a kick in the pants, give it to him. Maybe Spence isn’t talking enough on defense, maybe he’s not helping enough, maybe he’s hijacking plays on offense, or maybe as Mustang says, it’s just because Spence hasn’t practiced enough to have the continuity. Or maybe it’s because Westphal is punishing Spence for bagging Summer League. I’m fine with any of those reasons.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
I doubt the offense is Spence
I think that it is fair to take offense with less than honesty (pretty way of saying lying). Or take offense with blatant lies about stats. As a researcher I take offense to the “spin” that people put of stats to make their point. Blatantly lying about this stats it the worst.
I think that the offense taken, if any, was against the above more than against starting Spence. I might also take offense to something so blatantly wrong that it cause me to stay up to 4 AM researching and finding out the truth. If not offended, I would definitely want the truth told.
Shooting the messenger?
Westphal is far short of accurate here, and Zillercatches it and documents it. TZ also mentions in this very short piece that it is a minor thing, and that he can see the merit in Westphal’s philosophy.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I’ll opt for Ziller’s fact-finding over the spit balling as to why Hawes may be coming off the bench for the pre-season opener.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The punishment way exceeds the crime.
Are you serious? A short blog post pointing out that it’s not accurate is punishment?
“The Pen is Mightier than the Sword”, but in all seriousness. You could have done much worse and slammed PW with trust and truthfullness being an issue. You did not slam him, just pointed out the inaccuracy (which I really appreciate), and moved on.
You obviously understand the power of this forum and balanced the need for truth with the need to not slam PW.
Keep up the good fight TZ!!
I should put it this way, instead
Tom is obviously right, and did the research to back it up. My opinion is that it just may have not been worth the time put in to prove it.
If your wife asks you what you had for lunch, and you say you had a burger, and she says, “I know damn well you went to Taco Bell, and I can prove it,” you either recollected poorly, or you told a lie that has absolutely no consequences on anything going forward.
The season hasn’t started, and there is a tendency to overstate the importance of things, because we’re all so eager for the season to begin. May starting over Hawes is interesting, although less so due to Hawes missing most of the summer stuff, and having a bum ankle.
My concern is that, at some point, Westphal will (intentionally or not) misstate something, and everyone will be ready to throw this liar/moron into the Reggie Themusselmannatt pile, because we’ll likely only be winning one game out of every four we play.
The site is exquisite, and I recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about the Kings, and basketball in general. That is not the same thing as saying that it’s perfect.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Oct 6, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
True
That is not the same thing as saying that it’s perfect.
This is not in dispute. This site and myself as a writer are far from perfect. I accept and encourage criticism of myself, so long as no one tries to burn me at stake. (I don’t tan well.)
If your wife asks you what you had for lunch, and you say you had a burger, and she says, "I know damn well you went to Taco Bell, and I can prove it," you either recollected poorly, or you told a lie that has absolutely no consequences on anything going forward.
Yes, the analogy works in spirit. But is your wife in the wrong for pointing it out? If your wife mentions it, is she blowing anything out of proportion? Further, no analogy is perfect, and I think the fact that a) the site is written in somewhat of a journalistic bent, which should go along with some level of skepticism, and b) Westphal is not my husband, but the coach of a team I invest a lot of personal resources into it, I think his quotes — however trivial they may be in two months — are fair game.
My concern is that, at some point, Westphal will (intentionally or not) misstate something, and everyone will be ready to throw this liar/moron into the Reggie Themusselmannatt pile, because we’ll likely only be winning one game out of every four we play.
This is a concern I think about often. But if I avoid criticizing anything involved with the team/league on the fear that someone might take it out of context down the road, then I would never publish a single word beyond “Rah rah rah.” I think this can be solved by continuing an honest narrative as we move along and calling out unfair, out-of-context criticisms when they happen, not at the point of potential inspiration.
Manu Ginobli maybe?
Dip til I rip
http://reclaimingthetitle.wordpress.com
by Muff209 on Oct 6, 2009 9:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What?
Wait, are people actually complaining because Ziller reported on the inaccuracy of PW’s statement? Ziller didn’t call him out. He didn’t say that this somehow makes him a bad coach. He said, that PW was mistaken in his statment. Lighten up gang.
As far as my two cents. My answer to both is, “So?” I don’t think it’s a big deal that PW made a mistake. He was trying to make a point that you can have a guy come off the bench and still play a lot of minutes. I’ll bet he’s used this example before now to motivate college players or even some NBA players. He just mis-remembered the details. I’m only 46 and I do the same thing all the time. No big deal. To Ziller’s response. Same thing. Thanks for pointing that out. You are 100% right. A bench player does NOT play the most minutes on the team. Good call. Not a big deal.
As far as who is coming off the bench. I don’t think it makes a hill of beans in the first preseason game. Maybe the coach is doing it to motivate people. Maybe he is seeing something we are not. Maybe they are just playing the best. I keep threatening to write a post on this, but I think PW is coming in to win games. Some of us might moan that a guy like Hawes is our future and needs to start. Or that (me) ‘Reke isn’t ready to be thrown to the NBA wolves just yet.
But, dang. If Mays/Shock is playing better than Hawes/Shock, by all means, start Mays. If ’Reke is the best point guard on the floor, play the man. And if Mason is the best 3 we have (for better or for worse) play his butt off.
Many of us have been complaining for the last couple of seasons that coaches were playing guys who didn’t deserve it. I am beyond delighted that we have a coach who is coming in with no preconceived notions of who the “best” players are. I am all about putting the best, hardest working, most hustle players on the floor together. We keep saying, “So and so is our future.” But if so and so is not good enough or working hard enough to earn the starting spot, I don’t want him there. We are not good enough to have any crowned princes. Maybe this will be a wakeup call to certain players that there is no free lunch. You earn every minute you get.
And hopefully Ziller will be right there to report it all.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Coach W is absolutely sending a message to Spencer that he has not “arrived” as a player, and putting up numbers on a team that won 17 games must be put in proper context. Filling a stat box when your team gets trounced by 20 is not as significant as the same stat line on a playoff contender. Spencer has a reputation for thinking he is Hakeem the Dream V 2.0. I love the guys confidence, but his next dream shake will be his first. Dominant centers are consistently double teamed. No teams are doubling Spencer. He is not worthy, yet, of that type of attention.
As far as Coach W citing Dan Majerle and mistaken recall of the facts, Ziller beat Jason Jones and Sam Amick to the punch, as far as I am concerned. If Coach W is supporting his decision on incorrect information, he needs to be called on it. Just because he is in a position of authority does not give him license to misrepresent history or justify his decision-making haphazardly.
Reggie Theus tried to warn Westphal about this!
I kid, I kid. Come on Paul, I was 9 or 10 when those seasons went down and even I know Thunder Dan started.
Dip til I rip
http://reclaimingthetitle.wordpress.com
by Muff209 on Oct 6, 2009 9:25 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
burying the headline?
Nice reporting TZ. But how do we really feel about SHawes coming off the bench. I’ve noticed that Hollinger has indicated in his player profiles that SHawes might come off the bench for a few weeks now. I figured that was nuts and just ignored it. Based on Sam’s reporting, now I wonder.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Oct 6, 2009 9:30 AM PDT reply actions
Wait
Isn’t Spencer not starting because of his injury? Or is this an actual “Sean May is starting for the season” declaration?
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
that's the question...
If the answer is “spencer isn’t starting because he’s hurt” then why go on and on about the justification for coming off the bench?
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Oct 6, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Quote from PW in the Bee
“Sean has had a good camp,” said Westphal, whose team plays Portland again Wednesday at Arco Arena. “I think all week, whatever team he has been on, things have functioned a little more smoothly because he’s been on the team, both on offense and defense. He’s a very intelligent, versatile player, and I think he’s done a good job with helping things run more smoothly.”
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Replying to myself
But I also am just delighted that Noc isn’t starting yet. Wait, what was that you said about being too good for the Kings? Hmmm. At the moment it appears the Kings are too good to start you. Please prove otherwise.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Tonight
To my knowledge, it’s only about tonight. Westphal told Amick it’s not about Spencer’s ankle.
I think this is a good thing
First, I wouldn’t want Spencer starting if he’s even a little hurt. It’s pre-season.
Second, if ANY player other than Kevin Martin came in with the “I’m-the’starter” frame of mind, not the “I-gotta-prove-myself” mentality, then I want PW to fire an early warning shot across their bow to shake them up a tad.
I want us to put a competitive team on the floor, not a bunch of guys who feel entitled because they’ve started before.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Oct 6, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait a minute
Dan Majerle came off the bench?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
PW
is sending a message to Spencer. I like it.
Hope the family vacation was worth it. Everyone on this team should have to fight for minutes after last seasons debacle.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Video: Will Ferrell introduces the Hornets
- Video: Kevin Durant is rapping for real
- Jeremy Lin starts for the Knicks, lives in his brother’s living room, ‘has his own couch’
- Larry Bird would like to team with Kobe for the win, LeBron for the fun
- Will Ferrell will run the player intros at Wednesday’s Bulls/Hornets game
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
