Crazy Thoughts About Coaches
The recent meteoric rise of the Kings to a record of 4-4 got me thinking. In lietothegirls' entertaining post, pookeyguru made a comment about how there is no reason to believe that Paul Westphal has gotten through to the team this quickly. My first thought was that pookey's statement was probably accurate. Luckily for you, the reader, I have never allowed a reasonable idea prevent me from exploring a tangent in the complete opposite direction.
What follows is an unscientific exploration of ideas that cannot be proven true or false, only argued endlessly about. I figure a few of us might be nostalgic for these types of arguments now that the offseason is over.
Pookey's comment is that there is no reason to believe that Westphal has already gotten through to this team. On the surface, this makes sense. Westphal was hired June 10th, just over 5 months ago. He was able to work with some of the younger members of the roster over the summer, and has only been working with the full roster for a month or two. Hell, he's still trying to figure out what the starting line-up looks like, and has already given up on the Desmond Mason expiriment.Pookey is right, there is no reason to believe that the team has had a chance to fully adapt to Westphal and his system. Not yet. No way.
And yet the team just won three straight games. Without Francisco Garcia. Without Kevin Martin.
Obviously the players have made strides since last season, and the additions of Tyreke Evans and Omri Casspi have helped the team considerably.
Nonetheless, it defies explanation. Until now. I present to you my random coaching theory, which includes giving credit to Eric Musselman, Reggie Theus, and Kenny Natt. Before you throw your computer out a window, hear me out. I promise I'm not giving them credit in the traditional sense of the word.
This roster has been devastated by inconsistency. Rick Adelman was the last reputable coach of this team, and that roster bears little resemblance to the current team. Martin spent two seasons under Adelman, Garcia one, and Kenny Thomas was here too but he doesn't really count.
Aside from that, this roster has been "coached" by Muss, Theus, and Kenny Natting Natt. During the last three seasons, we often lamented that there was talent on this roster, and yet the wins could not be found.
My theory is simple. My theory is that this team finally has a bonafide NBA coach, and we're seeing the difference. This team had more talent than a 17-win team. The team may not have had time to fully adjust to the system, but even something as basic as a knowledgeable coach can make this kind of a difference.
So how do Muss, Theus and Natt get any credit from this? Well, I think the coaching carousel broke down existing habits. If a coach takes over for another experienced coach, he needs to get the players to buy into his system, and to move away from the habits of the previous system. This takes time. But as anyone who watched the Kings over the past three seasons knows, the Kings haven't had a system! They're a blank canvas. They're a block of unsculpted clay. They were ready for a system. So even if the new system isn't completely in place, there's something.
We'll see over the course of the rest of the season if I'm right. I hope I am, but I don't know for sure. This is just an idea.
Even if I'm wrong, I'll still enjoy the fact that right now we're .500, and that the team has played well enough for me to even consider such a theory.
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As usual, I'm an idiot
Got mixed up with the 3 in a row. Fixed now. Thanks.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Reader's Digest Version
Our last few coaches have been so worthless, they didn’t teach any of the players anything at all! Hooray for Westphal having a pulse!
Sad because it’s true.
I agree
This coach is focused and has a plan and is CLEARLY competent.
Good direction
I like the direction the coach has our team going in. But I patiently await Westphal (and maybe Coach Carril) putting in more plays with much more motion and cuts.
I agree
more plays with much more motion and cuts
This roster was Made for it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 11, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
I would also add to the fact that the players seem to have more respect for Westphal, where it seemed like they had no respect at all for the previous three coaches.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Nov 11, 2009 6:36 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
…and I believe it is respect that has been earned by building trust, being honest with players about their situation, and having a consistent message.
yeah...
… it’s like any job. Why would you bust your ass for a boss you have no respect for or think is an idiot?
by henryclemente on Nov 12, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
I see individual growth & improved talent more so than improved schemes
We are 4-4 but 2 years ago we won 38 games. Is anyone certain that we’ll win 38 games this year?
Hawes got rid of the baby fat, and his defense and footspeed are much improved along with weakside help and shot blocking.
JT is developing a low post game, improved his use of his left hand, & improved his man defense enough to not always on the edge of fouling out.
Tyreke has brought defense go the backcourt. And, Omri has increase the strength of the bench, along with Donte’s improved energy and defense.
As far as team defense goes, I see improvement based on effort and talent, and not on System. We still don’t rotate well, or defend screens or pick & rolls well. Offensively, there is still too much Iso and too many people standing around. There are improvements in ball movement but they’re sporatic and inconsistant. And, late in games when defenses tighten up, we look lost. And, sometimes don’t even get a shot off.
Will PW get through to these guys? You bet. Quickly? Not,a chance. I think the defense will improve the quickest, but efficientcy and comfortably will take months. Look for improvement throughout the entire year, and next year too.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 11, 2009 6:39 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Quick story about coach Westphal
per Peaches aka the Scarlett Douchebag:
After the Warriors game in the locker room, PW went up to Omri and told him not to worry about the missed FTs. As a matter of fact, coach said tat he trusted Omri so much that next time there’s a technical foul in favor of the Kings, Prince Casspian would be the one taking it. Fast forward to last night, 3 second violation on the Zombie Sonics, in a close game Omri takes the ball from Beno and knocks the freebie down.
Westphal has shown me more in a coupe months that I ever saw from our last 3 coaches. That may not be saing much but he still gets a lot of credit for what the Kings are doing so far. He believes in these guys and I’m sure the players feel that and are responding to it. I loved how pissed he was after the Hawks game because he truly felt like we should’ve beaten that team and he knew his guys were better than what everyone expects them to be.
I don’t think Westphal has gotten through these guys yet, in terms of game preparation and strategies, but I think he has done a great job at earning their trust and helping them believe in themselves. Sometimes, especially for a young team, that’s as important as Xs and Os.
The future begins now...
by edm7 on Nov 11, 2009 6:44 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Thats a great story on Bestphal trusting Omri.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
heck of a story edm7 (or whatever your name is ; ) )
This is a young team and Coach Westphal, St. Paul, Uncle PDub – is the right coach at the right time. Look at the difference there is against a very similar team – the young Warriors and the cold, confusing coaching Don Nelson is exhibiting. Look at the body language of the Kings players and the Warrriors. It says alot. Chaos v. Calm.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 11, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
It's the same eduardo as usual
He just shortened his name bte. LOL
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If I may ask
how would one go about doing that?
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
I had to create a new account
I know there is an option to claim your old account but it doesn’t seem to be working for me. For all I know, if you want to change your name gotta create a new one
The future begins now...
I saw the claim account thing as well
I guess I’ll just have to create a new one. Thanks.
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
I know PG, just adding to the comments about his name change
hence the Forrest Gump emoticon. I want to call him Ed, he is such a mensch, (this Casspi thing is bringing back my NYC roots), but an avatar name is an avatar name.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 11, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
That makes sense now.
Omri gave himself about 12 fist pumps last night over that free throw. It was mildly amusing to watch. I didn’t know why he was so happy for himself. Did anyone else see the fist pumps?
by BucksForever on Nov 11, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
They're a block of unsculpted clay...or dough
to be manipulated and molded like Jell-O… Or cookie dough… Or Play-Doh.
Any kind of dough
But as anyone who watched the Kings over the past three seasons knows, the Kings haven’t had a system! They’re a blank canvas. They’re a block of unsculpted clay. They were ready for a system. So even if the new system isn’t completely in place, there’s something.
Heh, I don’t know. Theus wanted to run the Triangle; why i don’t know but he did.
It’s easy to say coaches didn’t have a system when they haven’t had success with a roster. The reality is that Natt had 2 different rosters last year; Theus never had the roster he thought he had at the beginning of the season. When Theus was fired he said there was nothing Natt could do; was he wrong?
At the time, I remember TZ pointing out that the Kings were starting to run the Princeton. Yet, as time wore on, the Kings either didn’t run it, or they were running it and it’s proof that the system is probably not the best to be run on the pro level. Even Pete Carril would tell you that.
I agree that the coaching staff’s of the past 3 years set up Paul Westphal to look like a genius if something like this happened. I disagree that Paul Westphal has done anything different than he did in June, VSL, September workout’s, or training camp.
Paul Westphal doesn’t look like a genius if WaBeno Udrih doesn’t emerge. Paul Westphal doesn’t look like a genius if Ime Udoka has a 2-11 shooting night. Paul Westphal deserves a lot of credit for many things up to this point.
He deserves credit for never giving up on Beno at any point. Consider the following:
- Beno barely played or effectively on the opening road trip
- The first time Beno got major minutes was when Tyreke hurt his ankle and was recoving vs Memphis
- Beno in many ways is the perfect backcourt mate for Tyreke Evans because he can handle the ball and shoot it which are 2 things that Tyreke Evans does not have with the same level of consistency
- Beno’s career was on life support until this little run he’s had; if it continues he will have trade value which means the Kings will have to consider whether trading Beno is the best thing they can do for the team
- You can argue that no coach will ever matter more to Beno than PW if for nothing else because of the timing of the juncture that the two got together
I think PW is a terrific coach. I don’t know if I would consider him a brilliant offensive coordinator, but this team has an idea of what it wants to run with a host of offensive talent. Kurt Rambis was quoted as saying he was holding Jonny Flynn back because there are things he needs to “learn” before he will let Jonny go.
Tyreke Evans is a lot of things right now, but the one thing that is clear is that his basketball genius is effervescent to the point where you might get burnt by being within 10 feet of him. PW is no dummy; he knows that Evans is the key to winning on both ends of the court. Other than Evans & Thomas & Udoka, only Hawes right now is at a ‘plus defender’ level for the Kings. Everyone else is average or below that. What level of credit that goes to Mario Elie or Truck Robinson I don’t know; the reality is that a quality coaching staff works together with the head man’s goal. Reggie Theus and Kenny Natt had different goals than Paul Westphal has had. It’s funny when you consider that the organization quietly pushed Theus to hire a veteran head coach, and you have Paul Westphal WHO IS a veteran head coach in the NBA having hired several coaches with experience (Jim Eyen & Mario Elie), taking a risk on Truck Robinson and bringing in a coach who has shown to be effective in the development of talent (Bryan Gates).
Winning games ultimately has something to do with the coaching staff and it’s perspective. In fact, it has a lot to do with it. On the other hand, the players are the one’s who have to execute. When great players and coaches work together (key word: work) they win championships. I didn’t say that; Jerry Reynolds did. (He knows what he speaks, yes?)
I respect what Paul Westphal has done. I know that he’s brought about a professional coaching staff that has addressed the various components of a young, inexperienced and maybe devoid of talent (although I disagree with that). You have young talent capable of many things (Evans, Greene, Hawes), you have smart, tough, driven young talent (Thompson & Casspi), and you put them with veterans like Martin (as pure a great scorer as there is in the NBA), Garcia (skilled, fiery and tough), and Thomas (been consistent defensively), you can find great things in this group.
The last time you can say that about a coach is Rick Adelman. And, given the talent and circumstances Rick had to work under, he did very well. If anything, Paul Westphal has stepped into a void that Rick left. If anything, Paul Westphal recognized that this franchise was a perfect opportunity for a retread head coach who had success, and failure, at his 2 previous stops. We know the analogies from Paul Westphal to Rick Adelman; they’re plainly obvious.
What isn’t plainly obvious is that Adelman respected the game, the organization and Geoff Petrie enough to recognize that when you draft offensive players, you’re going to have teams that focus on offense more than defense. Fans don’t always seem to get that sometimes, but the way you play top tier defense is to have players who are brilliant on that end. And, that led to trades like Ron Artest. It was funny; suddenly the Kings defense got a whole lot better with Artest & Adelman around. With Musselman it dropped off despite the “focus”.
You can NEVER focus an offense without defense, or vice versa. There are 2 ends and only 5 players. You have to get players to buy in to the system, and ultimately believe you have their back. PW is often considered an offensive coach and has spent 95% of his media time talking about defense & rebounding. Gee, might that be an emphasis?
If anything, I knew these lessons already although I didn’t always know how to express this knoweldge. The thing about Paul Westphal is that he doesn’t make me appreciate the job Adelman did. Adelman did that on his own by the end of his 7th season. (It stands in my view as good a job as Rick will ever do which includes this season with the Rockets.) Rick Adelman has made me respect that a professional coaching staff and interested, committed players are a fun thing to pay attention to. This might be the start of something special, no question. I appreciate PW because I appreciated RA’s tenure far more by the end than I did at the beginning. I don’t want to make the same mistake ever again with any head coach.
So what does that have to do with these 8 games? I don’t know. But when smoke becomes a burning building it won’t be a fluke any longer. Right now, you can categorize Kenny Thomas’ play as a fluke (don’t really think that), Beno Udrih’s play ditto, and the luck of opponents who have many flaws relative to the position they hold.
With regards to my statement how PW did it, I don’t honestly know. My only regret is that these past 3 games aren’t the NCAA tournament; the Kings would be in the Elite 8 right now.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 11, 2009 7:46 PM PST reply actions 7 recs
nicely put PG. rec'd
particularly liked
Tyreke Evans is a lot of things right now, but the one thing that is clear is that his basketball genius is effervescent….
Adelman is a player’s coach not an owner’s coach and so he has gone on to stamp his brand on the Rockets. His recent shining moments were the playoffs last season and the start this year for Houston.
Westphal may be getting more credit than he deserves – it is nature of the beast that all Coaches get either too much or not enough credit for wins and losses – but 8 games in, he has endeared himself to this ailing basketball community and for that, if nothing else, he deserves credit.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 11, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
nicely put PG. rec'd
particularly liked
Tyreke Evans is a lot of things right now, but the one thing that is clear is that his basketball genius is effervescent….
Adelman is a player’s coach not an owner’s coach and so he has gone on to stamp his brand on the Rockets. His recent shining moments were the playoffs last season and the start this year for Houston.
Westphal may be getting more credit than he deserves – it is nature of the beast that all Coaches get either too much or not enough credit for wins and losses – but 8 games in, he has endeared himself to this ailing basketball community and for that, if nothing else, he deserves credit.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 11, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
wow, weird lag and cough by the browser doubled me up....
by betweentheeyes on Nov 11, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
SBN does that sometimes
Don’t worry about it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Now you tell me
I already put myself in my bunker.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Very good points
While I will concede that Theus and Natt probably tried to implement systems, but there wasn’t a clear system in place prior to this season. If this offseason, I asked you what style of offensive or defensive strategy this team ran, I think we all would have struggled to give any sort of definitive answer.
I think you summed up what I was going for very well with this line:
I agree that the coaching staff’s of the past 3 years set up Paul Westphal to look like a genius if something like this happened.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Just to clarify for those wondering
I wasn’t trying to say that your premise is wrong. It’s just I had a bit to say on this particular point. (Shocking, I know.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
To the original point, getting through to the players...
Clearly there are some things that PW has gotten through to this team.
That he is in charge. That he knows what his is doing and is to be respected. That you play more minutes when you play better. That everybody is valued for what they can contribute. That if you play the game he wants you to play you will be more successful. That if you do what he wants you to do the team wins more.
I think they may have some learning to do, but he is using these guys really well and they know it. He is a great tactician and clearly knows how to send his troops into battle.
I think that PW has gotten through to these players and this team.
by MustangMBS on Nov 11, 2009 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Westphal may have learned something from the Atlanta game
Don’t try to do too much or overthink the game. Let your players play and give them the confidence that they can rise to the occasion. Show the opponent different looks, but play the lineup you want on the court regardless of what the other team is doing. Reward good effort with more minutes. Put the ball in the hands of your best player in crunch time, even if he is a rookie playing his eighth professional game.
I think this Westphal’s clam, confident approach helped Beno contain Westbrook and Nocioni do a helluva job on Durant, no matter what the box score shows. It also kept Tyreke from fouling out.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 12, 2009 12:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree
I think he is inspiring confidence. I like that he came out after the last game and said Spencer is playing well. He isn’t, but clearly needs to have his coach’s support.
I think that it is a fine line to walk. Putting players on notice that they aren’t measuring up without breaking down their confidence. It seems that Spence had a bit of a rough time buying in, but may be now coming around. He may have lost his confidence a bit though.
Reminds me a bit of basic training in the military. You got to tear down the negates, keep the gems, and build from there. Not an easy task.
Hawes' defense has been very good
That doesn’t show up on the stat line.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
True
I was really thinking of his offense. He can make those 3s. He just isn’t hitting.
Maybe PW was only talking defense. Hawes has stepped that up.
And I think this is a clear example of why PW has been effective.
Sorry to use you as an example Mustang but we are talking about your comment. Maybe you don’t see the little things that Spencer has been doing the past couple games but coach does. Spencer has been doing a good job at playing D, setting good solid screens, and being ready when the offense comes to him. Things like these don’t show up on the box score but Westphal sees that as great improvement.
I think this is all comes back to accountability and buying into what the coach expects from players. Maybe Westphal doesn’t need Spencer to fill up the box score, he just needs him to do the little things that he appreciates.
The future begins now...
His D is much improved
I really like his weak side help and the blocks. They are really great. the block from behind on Krtic was Hawesome.
I do disagree that he has been ready when the offense comes to him though. He is putting up a lot of 3 point bricks. That isn’t being ready. He should make those wide open shots. We need him to do that.
That was really the gist of my thoughts. That his not starting and getting some feedback that he wasn’t performing well enough may have affected his confidence.
Just conjecturing. Something is clearly not clicking offensively, but it should get sorted out.
Agree about the 3s
But it’s just as simple as the shot not falling right now. We know he’s capable of knocking them down and I think is part of the team’s strategy to drag the big man out on th eperimeter.
When I mentioned being ready I meant to say that he’s still trying to get position when the play is called for him, is being making the effort to finish better, and also has not complained one bit about not being as involved as some think he should be. He’s been doing the little things and pretty much just letting the game come to him.
The future begins now...
Yep
Which is why he is starting. He is stepping it up which is good to see. His shots will start falling and once they do this is going to be an even better team and make the lane that much more open for Evans.
That's why they stopped hitting recruits
Found it may them too psychotic. Ah, the friendly, gentler US military.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You mean like these guys?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm thinking about seeing them in Reno the day after Turkey day
pretty sure we’re going to do it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
bring leftovers
you’ll need them
by betweentheeyes on Nov 13, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
While the coaching scheme is still a work in progress,
effort, teamwork, and willingness to take direction is something that can be instilled in a short time.
We have talented young players that want to be led. To not give PW credit for the change in attitude is ridiculous.
Keep up the good work PW.
Right guy at the right time -
One thing that Westphal has going for him is that he did not have to get buy in from tenured veterans. E-Muss and Theus both had to deal with rosters in transition, overpaid players that probably preferred to be elsewhere, and guys with their own agendas. I’m not giving these guys a pass, here. A good NBA coach overcomes these things. But the fact that the roster has been blown up definitely works in Westphal’s favor.
That said, I don’t know if Avery Johnson, Flip Saunders or Eddie Jordan could have come in and had this sort of impact on the team and the fans. Maybe they could have – I really don’t know. But Westphal has certainly exceeded my expectations.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 11, 2009 8:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Good point about bringing other coaches section
After these past couple games, would we prefer to have Eddie Jordan or Kurt Rambis?
The future begins now...
To clarify
Meant to ask if we would prefer any of those two to Westphal. I certainly wouldn’t
The future begins now...
If we're saying that by the end of the year
I think it’s pretty clear. Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Great point about Jordan Saunders & Johnson
I’m not sure they have the same effect.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Johnson seems too high strung
He may have had them off to a better start, but they probably would have turned on him by the end of the year.
A clean slate
definitely helps, and without Kevin and Cisco playing, it is truly a clean slate. This isn’t to debate their impact when they come back, but to state that the remaining roster is almost completely new folks with three or less years experience with the Kings or even in the league. And they and Westphal are benefiting from the fresh start.
The biggest thing Westphal has brought the the table, in my opinion, is a refusal to accept losing easily. He doesn’t expect to lose, and in any case if he’s going down it’s going to be with a fight and maximum effort, and anything less is unacceptable. He’s fortunate to have some good kids who like to work hard.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 12, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for the last paragraph
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I still really can't tell you what PW's offensive and defensive schemes are
but I can tell you this: He has created an environment where these moderately (mostly) and a few very talented players feel comfortable to play their hardest and to trust each other. Westphal is clearly comfortable in his own skin, he seems to be treating his players with respect, he is learning their strengths and weaknesses and utilizing their strengths to improve the team.
His resurrection of Beno’s, K9’s and particularly Donté’s careers is the mark of a true professional. He is not washing the team’s dirty laundry in public even though I’m sure he and é had some pretty strong heart to heart discussions behind the scenes. He is rewarding hard play with more minutes and not pulling the kids at the first sign of a mistake. He is making the players accountable for their performance without injecting an over riding ego. He knows the team is all about the players and not about the coach.
I’m sure his basketball knowledge is very good but I’m guessing that the team’s turnaround to date has more to do with his people skills than his x’s and o’s. He doesn’t seem to have an agenda other to turn the team into winners and to become the best basketball players they can and to turn this group of very young players into a team that if they do nothing else, win or lose, leave it all on the court every time they play.
So far, everything I’ve hoped for. Nice post G, thanks.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
For perspective
They are really complaining about Eddie Jordan at Liberty Ballers about how he doesn’t play young players.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He has veterans
We don’t
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
PW is playing his veterans
But your point stands.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Beno has been the glue
Beno kept asking to run the pick and roll where he gives it up at the high post to a big and then comes around a screen to get the ball with his dribble, from there he runs the pick and roll where he is comfortable spotting up, driving, runner, or feeding the big or the wings. He literally describes this in some interviews and begged Theus and Natt to run it like the Spurs but they wouldn’t run it that way. That was the “system” I saw work last game – Tyreke is still running his “dribble-drive” Calipari concoction that looks a lot like one on four and kick out as a last resort.
I’d love the Kings to model themselves after the Spurs (we obviously don’t have the stars or low post presence of Duncan but the unselfishness and workmanlike nature is what I’m starting to see.) I think the biggest PW effect has been believing in playing willing defense and not having Kevin has sadly, really helped. Even his game against OJ Mayo was overblown, he still gave free passes into the lane much of the first half.
At least Al Davis isn't running my team's drafts.
by bringbackbuddytrees on Nov 11, 2009 10:23 PM PST reply actions
Westphal has been great.
Thus far Westphal has set a platform from which his players can succeed. His impact is the main reason the Kings have turned for the better.
Or we could look at the glass half empty
And think that maybe Kevin Martin is the latest entry in the Patrick Ewing theory…:) Naaaah
you lost me when you gave credit to muss, theus and natt...
just kidding. the biggest difference, i think, is westphal is creating competition for playing time, being honest with the players, and giving them a chance to play (given the match up and performance of the invidual player.).
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
I'm liking Westphal so far
How long of a contract is he signed to? For how much?
Blast from the past
I joined this blog in late spring before Paul was hired in some respect to defend Westphal and voice my opinion as to why I thought he would be a great hire. Obviously there were a wide range of opinions as to whether he should be “the man”. I wont replough old ground here suffice it to say Westphal did not seem to be the #1 choice.
That is not a criticism, from the outside it was very understandable why many were hesitant. It did not help that many criticisms of Westphal were ungrounded and driven by incomplete knowledge that resulted in a lot of misinformation trotted out as facts. To everyones credit once some of the misinformation was answered by the facts I think some of you warmed up to the idea that although Paul may not be your first choice he certainly would not be a disaster.
Where this Board really shined IMO was when he was announced as the head coach.All of you embraced him , put your reservations aside and as a group in so many words said “Ok he may not have been my number 1 choice but now that he is the coach he is going to be accepted , supported and given a fair chance to prove himself” I must say I think the fans on this site have to be the best fans in the NBA. JMO of course.
Anyway I am getting nervous. This is a young team and as the season progresses scouting reports will hone in on the strengths and weaknesses of this team. Adjustments will be made, there will be periods of times where these adjustments will equate to team underperformance. My concern is that we have gone from hoping for constant improvement translated into a better product on the floor to where not making it into the playoffs will be a failure all based on the first 8 games. I guess for Pauls sake I am trying to manage expectations LOL. However if someone would ask Westphal I would guess he would say " Hey I want our fans to have high expectations!!"
Anyway most coaches will tell you that their success ultimately rests in the hands of the players but in reality think it is their great coaching skills. Westphal is a former player and knows that its his players that win games. The Kings players know this and thats how you respect a team and when you respect a team they respect you back.
Furthermore as I said in the spring Paul treats his players as men not spoiled children. As men he respects them He lets them know that as men they have responsibilities to themselves, their families, their teammates, their community and their fans. This was his downfall in Seatlle he treated Payton and Baker et all as men and they returned the favor by acting as spoiled children. But a leopard cannot change its skin and no matter what Payton and Baker did Paul was still going to treat them as men not children. You could say that the sword that cut Westphal down was the sword he held in his own hand.
I believe that what you are witnessing in Sacramento so far these few weeks is the result of Wesptphals respect he shows to the players. The knowledge by the players that respect is demonstrated by treating them as men, by telling them the truth, by expecting them to be responsible and the knowledge that their coach does not have a hidden agenda. Because of this they trust their coach and want to play hard for him , for their fans and for their community.
I think this team and this coach are meant for one another.
by PWfan on Nov 12, 2009 6:36 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
Coaches are ultimately judged by wins and losses
Paul Westphal will be no different. He will have the advantage of taking a woefully underperforming 17 win team and bringing them to some form of respectability.
The usual suspects will be in play: talent, attitude, injuries, matchups, media, fans, owners, politics.
Where Coach Westphal has so far exceeded expectations (we are fans, it is a given that our expectations are unreasonable) is his ability to display charm, calm, patience and hope. The wins help – they supply breathing room and give the grace and words credibility. If the Kings were 1-7, 2-6 the frustration level changes from hand clapping to hand wringing. It helps that he is obviously a nice guy.
The team is young, the season is young and like all relationships, it is easy to smile when things are going well. It is adversity that determines the strength of this marriage. Let’s see what there is to say when the darker days that will inevitably come, arrive.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 12, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
“The team is young, the season is young and like all relationships, it is easy to smile when things are going well. It is adversity that determines the strength of this marriage. Let’s see what there is to say when the darker days that will inevitably come, arrive”
Well said.
Also we should not forget that Tyreke is a rookie and the length of the NBA schedule will probably take its toll on him at some point.
If you were PW, I would say...
Glad to have you here PW. You got some fans here. We really like what you are doing with these players.
You deserve a lot of credit for getting these guys to give it their all. It is good to see the intensity and effort. The fans didn’t stop coming to the games because they stopped being fans. They stopped coming because the team stopped trying to win.
This is a forum with a wide array of people. Like all of the internet there are sharp smart people and complete bonehead. Mostly here, it is the former. People in StR really know the game and take it serious. If you want unvarnished and clear opinions of fans this is the place to come. You may have to just dig for the nuggets a bit.
Oh and please please please get the guys to run some double screen late in the fourth quarters when the D of the other teams tighten up. Get them moving and then have Evans drive and kick or have Beno do his little pull up shot. Movement really is the key. It is stalling a bit in the 4th…
Kicking butt during the next game would be great as well… We have faith in you and this team.
by MustangMBS on Nov 12, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He's begging them I think (sigh)
rec’d
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 13, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions
Well hell
If you got a PW fan that becomes an StR member a week before PW accepts the job then that person likely is pretty close to PW. Might have the ear of PW himself.
Not that my begging and pleading will likely mean much, but damn it is hard to watch some of those plays in the 4th where everybody stands around.
Great stuff PWfan
Great stuff. You touched on a lot of great points about the treatment of players and how it didn’t work well for him at Seattle (Sam Amick mentioned something along the same lines about his lack of success at Pepperdine in his Bee chat today).
I doubt i’m alone, but one of the best thing about StR is that all viewpoints, reasonably put forth, are always welcome. Your opinion, thankfully, is no exception.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Here is the Bee Chat I was referring to.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....





















