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"He told me when we had our first meeting, 'I'll do whatever you want; I'll play wherever you want,' " Westphal said. " 'Don't worry about me. Start me; bring me off the bench. Play me at the three, four. Don't play me; play me the whole game … I'll give you everything (I)have.'

"You can't ask for a player to say more than that."

Paul Westphal on Andres Nocioni, as quoted by Jason Jones of The Bee.

2 months ago Avatar_chapu_copy_tiny NoceOne 91 comments 0 recs  | 

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No name

And no link. But I assume it’s talking about Udoka?

The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.

by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 12, 2009 7:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well

That was just too predictable.

The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.

by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 12, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great story

and Nocioni is a good fit for the Kings. This might work out better than he or the Kings thought. In any case, much better than having Brad Miller and John Salmons around here pouting.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 12, 2009 8:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

I wasn’t impressed with Nocioni’s comments after last season, but he works his ass off on the court every night. That kind of attitude should rub off on the youngsters….

Desmond Mason - Untied the balloon in Colorado, forged Obama's birth certificate, and ruined the careers of Omri Casspi and Tyreke Evans.

by otis29 on Nov 12, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to bet that the Kings will either hold onto Nocioni until the deadline

Or they wait until next summer to deal him.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As long as he produces on the court

Combined with his declining contract, I think the guy will maintain his trade value. So yeah, I could see him hanging around for a while.

Desmond Mason - Untied the balloon in Colorado, forged Obama's birth certificate, and ruined the careers of Omri Casspi and Tyreke Evans.

by otis29 on Nov 12, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The only thing that concerns me is that last sentence...

…and why the reporter needed to insert “(I)” in there.

What was the actual quote…

“I’ll give you everything Andreas have”? A bit too Karl Malone diva for me.

“I’ll give you everything you have”? Suddenly not so selfless.

“I’ll give you everything me have”? Too LOLcat.

“I’ll give you everything Section 214 have”? Raises more questions than it answers.

It’s a damn mystery.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Nov 12, 2009 8:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

It was PW relaying what Noce said

so don’t go crazy, just a paraphrase

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

just having some fun

should have hit the “sarcasm” button

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Nov 12, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed that and wondered how that would work too.

by DesertFox on Nov 12, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

NoceOne

you must have fixed the link by the time I read the story this morning. I like Nocs, hope we keep him for the season and love the way he’s been playing. I’ve never had a problem with his interviews after reading them. His recent DUI is completely out of character, it is what it is, bad judgment, but not the end of the world by any means. If anything it’s a cautionary tale for the younger players. He had a delightful interview with Jerry and Peaches after the last game and it was good to see him get the props for holding Kevin Durant to 37 points (and a bunch of other things).

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Nov 12, 2009 8:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A lot of those 37 points

came when Durant heated up in the third quarter and Nocioni was on the bench.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 12, 2009 8:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

About 10-12 were against Donte' and Casspi

Donte’ couldn’t guard him, stay in front. Casspi could but he got off a few shots that went in anyway and drew a couple of fouls on him.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When it's a quote

What you do is put in the url/link in this html:

<.a href=""></.a>

When it’s a link, you just put in the link url. If it’s a video, put in the embed code where it says html embed.

It’s a lot easier when you’ve done it once or twice Noce.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 6:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh as far as where the link goes

It goes in between the 2 quotations. That’s where you get the highlighted purple.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone noticed how Salmons is playing this year?

Really stinking it up (so far) 30% fg, 25% 3pt

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 9:01 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Salmons shot 1-11 last night

in the loss to Toronto, but Hinrich was only 3-10 and Pargo was the only other guard besides Rose who played.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 12, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is the perfect quote.

I wish more players would be like that.

by mayfieldcol on Nov 12, 2009 9:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I feel conflicted about this

On one hand I feel bad about wanting to trade the guy because he IS a hard worker and you can’t never have too many of those on your team. Unfortunately, his contract just doesn’t fit with a rebuilding team and already having Cisco, Omri, and,maybe, Donte now, at the SF doesn’t help his cause. I think the young guys can benefit from playing with him and rubbing off his warrior attitude.

On the other hand, this same attitude and good play could net us something more than just expiring though I’m not holding my breath on that.

Would there be any trade options out there if we were to combine Noce and K-9’s expiring?

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 9:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Trading Noc + K9 =

A partial season rental who won’t stay, or one really bad contract, instead of two moderately bad ones.

I’m reasonably certain that there is no trade scenario of this sort which does anything more than get us out of the lottery next year. Unless someone is stupid enough to trade us one of the top 5 talents in the league for those contracts, we aren’t getting into the playoffs, anyway.

Rebuilding takes years, it’s starting to pay off.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Nov 12, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ohh no doubt

I’m one of the patient ones. I do think trading Noc by the deadline is very possible so I was just wondering if there’s anything out there that makes sense. If we were to get a bigger expiring + maybe a low first round pick for that package I would be good.

I think we are letting K-9 expire anyways so if we can package him with Noce and get that extra pick, it’s worth it IMO.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless some contender is desperate early

(and there may be a few teams soon), no need to worry too much until near the deadline and by then Cisco and Martin should be back and whatever positive influence Noce can have on the youngsters will have happened.
I’m kinda liking him right here now – though a little winning streak will do that. Is he overpaid as a starter? I’d say the answer is no.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Utah needs him badly

With Harprings career likely done due to injury they have a big hole at SF, toughness and outside shooting. He’s an expiring contarct as well. Aykis’ dream of Fesenko is a possibility. I’d take Harpring, Fesenko and the Knicks draft pick! (greedy!) or one of the last two.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice one

Noc + K-9 for Harpring + Fesenko + Utah’s pick (not NY) sounds nice.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sloan would love him I'd think

But like I said, he stays for now as BTE says below. In January though? I’m sure he’d appreciate being on a playoff team for the next few years.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In January or by the trade deadline

Sloan is going to have a good idea where NY’s draft pick is going to be. I don’t think he trades away a top 10 pick to get a 30+ role player. A young prospect and a bad contract, maybe.

Plus Utah seems to be playing Fesenko more than Koufos who’s averaging less than 4mpg. So, I don’t think Noc gets you anything from Utah. They’re stuck playing Kirilenko until his contract expires, and they’re not going to give away talent for a backup.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They'd still have Koufos though

and the Utah roster is playoff ready now (almost). They have to play out Kirilenko’s contract and maximize it . . . . with Noce they’d have a chance, Kirilenko is better = off the bench.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kirilenko is better playing as a Stretch 4.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Nov 12, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree and think that makes my point.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That trade won't work

Utah is taking too much money back for it to work under the salary cap.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would like to address one of your comments in particular Ed(m7)
On the other hand, this same attitude and good play could net us something more than just expiring though I’m not holding my breath on that.

If you are talking about expiring than you couldn’t be holding your breath.

Or as one my favorite professors stated as he first stood at the podium “If we don’t all expire, this will be a very inspiring lecture”

In regards to the actual content – Noce is an inspiration right now. He is playing hard, determined ball. He is a playing veteran, and right now, the only one other than Udoka that this team has. To me, he is a necessary part of the ingredients needed for the chemistry of this squad.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 12, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

I meant just an expiring contract, I’m sure you know that ;). I don’t want to ‘expire’ just yet, gotta witness a Kings championship first.

And to clarify my original point, I’m, just getting ahead if myself and think this discussion doesn’t take place until we get closer to the trade deadline (unless we truly get an offer we can’t turn down). I appreciate Noce’s energy and hustle in this team and hope this keeps rubbing off the young guys. I definitely see him as positive on this team, not a negative.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think what would be more likely is to get some draft picks out of

Noc and K9…

But neither of them are stinking it up, so I’m not in a rush.
I would like some first rounders for next year though… That would be pretty sweet.

Maybe we could work a 3 team trade so that we get probable lottery picks, a crappy team gets an alright player that doesn’t fit on a good team, and the good team gets a tough defender that shoots 3’s well (Noc).

... Now let me show you why they call me the Velour Fog...

by tomroadrunner on Nov 12, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course, that is a gross over-simplification of the process, but it could be reasonable.

I don’t want players from trades, I would rather give Petrie some picks to work with instead of getting someone from another team.

... Now let me show you why they call me the Velour Fog...

by tomroadrunner on Nov 12, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still think we get no takers on K-9

Its waaay too late. He just expires.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Expiring is the beauty of the deal

I think someone will make us a fair offer for Noc at some point, on a playoff-contending team, he could be a real asset with his hustle and three-point shooting. I like that he’s on the team going forward, but if a fair offer is tendered, I’d look very hard at it.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Nov 12, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said - Utah

A struggling playoff caliber team with a few young prospects and some draft picks – perfect.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds good. Let's make a deal.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 12, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't run that through the trade machine

but I’m confident it works

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Age - just that

unless we do a trade that gets us to be more of a contender sooner.

I’m a big fan of his.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Man after my own heart. :-)

Not too grounded on reality but still…I love the sentiment.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Nov 12, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who's better Noc or Cisco?

Noc will be 30 Nov 30th, and Cisco will be 28 on Dec 31. Both are good outside shooters & play multiple positions and defend multiple positions. Certainly it’s a matter of opinion, but I like Noc more for his hustle, defense, toughness, and the fact that he doesn’t seem to be prone to making stupid mistakes. Plus, he seems to stay healthy. Also, I think the team right now is in more need of help at the PF then SG.

Omri & Donte will get enough playing time, even if they have to play behind Noc over the next 2 years. And, we aren’t going to be playoff contenders for a year or two, unless we get an exceptional player in next years draft or pick up a exceptional FA next summer. Even if we get the exact player that GP wants in the next draft, rookies take time to learn how to play the NBA team game. So, unless some can’t refuse offer comes along, I’d like to see Noc stay until the end of next year, or next years trade deadline at the least.

Besides I think Donte will see more time at the PF once Cisco comes back. I like all 4 players but based on talent and fit for this team, I’d move Cisco then Noc. Unless by some chance, GP does decide to trade Martin next summer.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I lean toward Cisco

Defense and shooting are relatively equal, but he brings ballhandling to the table plus he is reputably perfect in the locker room.
That being said, I would want to see that Cisco returns to full health before any trade of Noc. I also do not think Noc will be traded until February, especially if the Kings keep showing signs of life, because any buzz brings in more customers.

by ElRonToro on Nov 12, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point HT

and I can honestly say I did not look at it that way. Top of my head though, I’d prefer Cisco for his versatility and ballhandling skills. I think especially the latter are a very good complement to Reke and Martin.

That being said, I have to look at the contract numbers and think about it more before really knowing where my opinion lies. My first thought for now is keep Cisco.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ball handling doesn't seem to be a great need anymore

at least not to me. Martin, Tyreke, Beno, & Sergio all can handle the ball, and Omri seems capable of playing some SG, so why de we need 6’7" ball handler.

One more point about ball handling. PW seems to like using Spencer & Jt from the high post to initial the offense. This was part of Coachie’s style of offense, and one highly favored during our golden years for it’s flow and movement. So, with Tyreke, Beno, JT & Spencer initiating the offense, why is there a need for Garcia’s ball handling.

If we need to move Noc because his age makes him a poor fit for a rebuilding team, then won’t we need to move Cisco in two years because he’ll be the same age then. I like Cisco, but his versatility isn’t needed anymore, because of the strength of our guard group. Plus, his talent and age make him just as valueable as Noc as far as trade value goes. And, salary wise there about equal. But, Garcias contract is a year longer than Noc’s.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ball handling is always a need at every position in a motion offense

and judging Cisco by the his almost solo extra effort off the bench (caused some mistakes) on that crappy team the last two years is I think unfair.

But then he’s my guy.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's like saying scoring is needed at every position

But, Cisco doesn’t use his ball handling skills to drive to the rim. He’s a SF who plays the role of the catch & shoot guy out of the corner.

Cisco’s greatest value was his versatility. Well, we now have guards that are playing well, and Martin will be back around the same time as Cisco. When Cisco returns to full strength he’s going to be the 4th guy in the SG rotation behind Martin, Tyreke & Beno.

 We have two potential SF’s in Donte & Omri, and don’t need to keep both Noc & Cisco unless we move Donte to PF. So, as a matter of need do we keep the player that plays SF & Guard or the player that plays SF & PF.

As far as tradeabliity, Cisco is younger, has a cheaper contract, & plays 3 positions, and you have a guy who has just as much trade value as Noc or even more value.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Putting Donte at PF isn't a bad idea.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Nov 12, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Against some teams that is.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Nov 12, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Defensively it's a better fit right now

But, when we do these player movement discussions, we also need to look 1or 2 years down the road.

Donte’s a pretty good size now. At 6’10" and 240 lbs he’s not that much smaller than JT. Ten more pounds of mucle added to his frame in each of the next two years, would make him a formitable size PF with great length and leaping ability.

So looking to next year, Hawes, JT, & a top 5 draft center, along with a more developed Donte could be a very talented 4/5 combo. Add to that a FA SF to go along with Omri and our front court could be set for the next 5 years.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Nocioni over Cisco

The reason: Omri is a Cisco type player, only with better decision making skills and taller (and as he matures, bigger/stronger). He will, within a season, maybe two, make Cisco superfluous.

Again, Nocioni is a tough veteran, playing presence. He is more money for less years. This Kings team will remain young for many seasons as the current crop ages but the next two lotteries (andd high second round picks) bring in more youth to cancel out the aging process. The need some veteran calm in the locker room.

Last reason: my favorite unwritten statistic – durability. Noce has played 81 or more games 3 out of his first 4 seasons, 75 last year.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 12, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Durability is a great point

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If that's the case bte

You can bet the Kings will shop Cisco this summer when he’s (presumably) healthy and no longer BYC. It will be much easier to trade Noc or Garcia in the environment of next summer than it could be to trade Noc this trade deadline.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I never like to f*ck with chemistry.

Sure we need a shot blocking wide bodied big but not at the expense of the team spirit and chemistry.

33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.

by JETisKing on Nov 12, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Give Nocioni points

for saying exactly what he’s supposed to say; that’s what veterans do.

My opinion on him is, by the All-Star break, if he can be traded for expirings, you do it.

He’s almost exactly the same player as Garcia. Garcia is an extremely marginally better shooter, handles the ball better, more steals and blocks, Nocioni is a lot better rebounder.

However, Garcia is the younger and cheaper player, and this team doesn’t need two $6-7 million below average small forwards. Garcia is the more flexible player, you can roll him out against almost any mix of opposing players, Nocioni is more limited in that his strengths are more useful in some circumstances than others.

I get that Nocioni was great against Durant, and has had some great moments. I am rooting for him too, but from a team-building standpoint, sell high and let’s free up that money for a bigger player that has a legit chance to guard most 4s and 5s.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 12, 2009 1:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Cisco's contract is longer, & Noc's contract is declining in cost.

We need help more at PF than at Guard. And, has the fact that Cisco hasn’t played, made everyone forget about Good Cisco / Bad Cisco.

It’s a tough call, be we are taking about our future backup SF, assuming Omri or Greene continue to develop. So, I think both should be on the trading block. It’s closer to a coin toss, or whoever can be used in a trade for a backup Center.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nocioni's declines

Cisco’s goes up, yet every year of Nocioni’s contract is more expensive, other than Garcia’s extra year (not Garcia is two years younger). You can’t argue money with regard to Cisco/Nocioni unless you really don’t like Cisco’s extra year, which is a silly argument because Cisco will be younger in the last year of his contract than Nocioni will for his.

Cisco is 4 years for $23.2 million, Nocioni is 3 years for $21million, assuming no team options are exercised.

Cisco not playing has made people forget about Good Cisco and just remember Bad Cisco.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 12, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cisco will not be easily traded either

The Kings might simply wait until the summer to deal Noc and/or Garcia.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe so,

Do Noc & Garcia have real value on their own? By next summer, Thomas will be gone, so will either be traded on their own or will we have to give up one of the young guys to move them?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cisco's BYC and probably out until the all star break

There is not a very high likelihood that OKC will want Cisco between now & the trade deadline. The earliest time Cisco will be traded is over the summer when he’s no longer BYC.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where does OKC come into the discussion

And, my question was “Is Cisco have value enough to be in a man for man trade, or will he have to be included in a multiplayer trade to get moved?”

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cisco is BYC

that means his trade value is half of his salary. The only way you can do a simple trade with a BYC player is with a team that has cap room. OKC is the only team with cap room.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, I see

but can’t teams trade BYC’s. Orlando has Gortat who’s a BYC. And, his value is almost identical to Garcia’s. Doest the 25% + 100K trade criteria make it possible.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That could work actually

The only difference in trade value is 27K, and there might be a buffer of 100K to make a trade like that work.

That being said, I doubt Orlando would ever consider it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like Cisco's extra year

for the reason your brought up

However, Garcia is the younger and cheaper player, and this team doesn’t need two $6-7 million below average small forwards.

But, mostly because Cisco’s versatility isn’t needed at the guard position, and his 3pt shooting isn’t needed at the SF position because of Noc & Omri. And, if we trade him we don’t have to pay $6M in his last year to a 31yr old below average SF.

If the agruement is that it’s better to trade Noc now while he’s still in his prime and trade Cisco later, I might agree. But, I still think that for now, Noc has more value to the team than Cisco even at Noc’s higher salary.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 1:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your assumption that Cisco is a SF is erroneous

He’s clearly a SG who plays SF.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i agree!

He was way to skinny and doesn’t “bang” enough to be a SF

by shadowchicken on Nov 12, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My assumption is that we don't need him to play SG.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 12, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You have a cogent argument, HighTops

:)

I really, really like Garcia as our backup shooting guard and small forward. With Garcia, he complements Evans for the same reasons Beno does (shooting, ball handling) and you don’t give up the defense with him you do with Beno. I’m completely ok with Evans/Martin/Garcia/Beno as our guard rotation with Garcia getting a few extra minutes at SF. That’s an extremely flexible and talented group.

With Nocioni, he brings a lot to the team also, but 3 $5+ million reserves is too many. Beno can’t be gotten rid of, despite the euphoria on this board, and I just like Cisco’s game more than Nocioni.

I will say, I’ve been very, very impressed the last week with Nocioni’s drive, team-orientation and defense. He’s been an extraordinary professional since he entered the starting lineup and that does count for a lot with me.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 12, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At this point I don't really care which who is moved

But one will have to be moved and right now the Kings are lucky they don’t have to make that decision.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yup

I really don’t think either will be moved until the All-Star break, and I actually think GP has a scenario he doesn’t think he needs to trade either.

I don’t agree with it, but I think the most likely scenario is Nocioni is on the team at least until this summer.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 12, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The financial issue of Cisco being BYC vs Noc not being BYC is the biggest issue of the two being traded. That’s why, along with Garcia’s injury, I could see the Kings simply not trading Noc until the summer. Then again, they might move Garcia. Or not move either (which I would not be in favor of).

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And, if we trade him we don’t have to pay $6M in his(Cisco) last year to a 31yr old below average SF.

Um, with Nocioni’s contract we’re paying $6.8mil to a 31 year old next year, and $6.65mil to a 32 year old the year after.

$23.2 million for 4 years (Cisco)
$21 million for 3 years (Nocioni)

Nocioni is two years older, and Cisco’s contract is one year longer. You can’t make an economic argument for Nocioni. You can make a fit with the team argument, or better glue guy argument, or Nocioni is a better player argument, but the math and ages are clearly in Cisco’s favor.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 12, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

is*

Lol he’s not dead just out

by shadowchicken on Nov 12, 2009 2:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It would be hard to move either...

With that being said, why not keep them. Looking at the glass half full, we are winning right now and Noce is more valueable to use then any other team. As long as the team is winning nobody is going nor should go, anywhere.

by Doors Open on Nov 12, 2009 3:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm just glad the Kings have been winning...

Noce has been playing more to his standards and that not everyone wants him gone from the Kings.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Nov 12, 2009 6:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's never personal Noce

if he’s being discussed is because of where this team’s at. Definetely nothing about his game or persona. I personally love what the guy brings to the table. I just wished it was for a little less $$

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You bring up a good point Noce

I don’t necessarily want him gone. But, it’s either Cisco or Noc who will be gone within a year. I think it’s prudent to have the discussion of who means more in the long term when the Kings are getting something in return. Since the Kings are not likely to get anything more than an expiring contract for either, I can live with it.

But as far as disrespecting Noc? Nah. My opinion is that Noc is more of a glue guy while Garcia is more of a skill guy who brings fire to the table. It’s really hard to say who brings more to the table right now with Garcia’s injury happening.

It’s a good problem to have though.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A good problem indeed

We finally have enough talent to have a discussion like this one. That’s always a good thing

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And basketball staff who will properly address such

Should be interesting to see how that shakes out.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny how being patient works, huh?

Who would have thought?

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 12, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Shrugs

I was reading KingsFans today and one fan complained that the Kings didn’t take Gilbert Arenas in 2001 or Carlos Boozer in 2002.

I thought it was pretty funny given that the level of criticisms that particular person. (For instance, he blamed Geoff Petrie for not being able to acquire Kobe Bryant in 1996, along with Steve Nash, who were drafted 13th & 15th in 96, along with Peja Stojakovic at 14th, yet he’s also a guy who was a Jason Williams & Mike Bibby fan. He also said that Geoff Petrie made a mistake not taking Dirk Nowitzki or Paul Pierce. I guess my point is that some fans, despite the reality of how the NBA REALLY works, will always try to have it both ways reality be damned.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 7:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I happen to agree with you.

It’s much like in Chicago, where Deng was the superior basketball player while Noce was hustle, grit and toughness. Noce can live with playing back up to Cisco and even Casspi. But it’s tough to have such an expensive back up.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Nov 12, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

We’ll see as it moves on. All I know.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 12, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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