How Jason Thompson Has Improved
by Tom Ziller on Nov 16, 2009 11:04 AM PST
in Commentary
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PrintDavid Berri's point about the improvement of Jason Thompson got me wondering: exactly how has J.T. improved? What is he doing better this season? There are three key areas I see.
* Handling the ball. Last season, Thompson was basically a non-factor as a facilitator. For a non-featured scorer, he was actually a bit turnover-prone. He has fixed both of those items: he has 26 assists and only 11 turnovers this season. If he can sustain that type of efficient passing production without seeing his turnovers shoot up, that's a huge boon.
* Drawing fouls ... and hitting those free throws. Thompson is earning about two more FTAs per 36 minutes this year. But the bigger improvement has been his free throw stroke: he's gone from 69 percent to 82 percent from the line, which is an incredible jump. His senior year at Rider -- two years ago -- he only hit 58 percent on FTs. (He did hit over 70 percent in two other Rider seasons ... but nothing close to 82 percent.) Can J.T. keep hitting the freebies? Let's hope so. It's a big scoring boost for one of Sacramento's key weapons.
* Collecting offensive rebounds. We had no right to expect Thompson to improve on the offensive glass: he was already 7th in the entire league last year! He collected 11.8 percent of all offensive rebound opportunities as a rookie. This year, he's up to 15 percent, good for 4th in the league. He's averaging a cool five offensive rebounds per 36 minutes, which has helped him peak into the league's top 10 rebounds per game list despite no individual improvement on the defensive glass. J.T. is averaging a double-double right now.
There has been one other stand-out improvement, but credit for this one likely goes to Paul Westphal: Thompson is playing more minutes this season. Last year, J.T. averaged 28 minutes per game. Even after the All-Star Break, when Brad Miller, Shelden Williams and Mikki Moore were exiled, Thompson still averaged less than 32 minutes a game. Thompson's foul rate hasn't lowered significantly (4.9 per 36 to 4.3), but Westphal has decided to keep him on the court for longer stretches. That's helped the per-game numbers reach (to date) All-Star level. And that helps get J.T. the attention he deserves.
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I've never seen anybody
Not get called for pushes in the back on offensive boards like JT. I love it though. I’m not complaining one bit. It only makes up for 1% of the Kings/Lakers series.
Footwork
Last season and in the offseason, I faulted JT’s footwork as the largest factor hindering his development. He seems to have improved in this department and I think it has aided him in all aspects of his game. It’s great. I think it also makes him less prone to make mistake fouls or turnovers cause he is more controlled, balanced. Keep it up, JT!
Good point, footwork is Much better
Still a ways to go but . . . He’s also using his left better and has added a little jump hook he pulls out a few times a game.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
If one left-handed layup a game means his left hand is getting better than I suppose you're right. :)
I really hope that jump hook becomes more consistent.
I hate it when he receives the ball on the right block, dribbles to the center, only to go up and and use his right hand when naturally, it should be a left handed hook. Come playoff time (if we make it that far), teams will swat that stuff after the first game.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I think it does
He had neither of those last year. They’re going in for buckets, do you think he’ll back off them or use them more? Hmmmmmm :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I say USE THEM, pleeeease!
It’s true, one made layup is better than none at all (last year).
I wonder who’s responsible for his growth? Big ups to them, whoever they are.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
You're not kidding about him putting up All Star numbers
6th amongst West PFs in scoring
3rd amongst West PFs in rebounds
Tied for 1st amongs West PFs in Offensive Rebounds
3rd amongst West PFs in assists per game
2nd amongst West PFs in blocks per game
Top 10 amongst West PFs in FG% (this would be higher if not for a few poor shooting games)
6th amongst West PFs in FT% (of the top 15 he gets the third most attempts)
And this is a big one: 2nd amongst West PFs in PER
Also, among those first 3 categories one of the players above him in all 3 is Zach Randolph, who as we all know will never make an All Star Game. It’s in the rulebook, look that shit up.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Nov 16, 2009 11:28 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
To add a little more
Amongst potential All Star PFs we have:
Dirk – Mortal lock
Amare – Probable, but doesn’t put up the same all around stats as JT, just scores better and has better FG%
Odom – ranks higher in assists only
Gasol – Hasn’t played a game this year, but will likely make the All Star Game
Randolph – See rule above
Boozer – Scores more points overall, but that’s it
Jeff Green – Scores 0.3 more ppg than JT
Thompson – He ranks high in all the major categories, while some of the above named guys only specialize in a few.
www.mancancook.net
Pooking myself again
The one problem with JT as an All Star is that he could easily get screwed by the fact that they pick Forwards, rather than Small Forward and Power Forward. That adds Carmelo and Durant to the list. So the guys that probably WILL make it as forwards are Dirk, Amare, Pau, Carmelo, Durant. With JT on the fringe. So, that’s 5 forwards for 5 spots. JT should make it because he’s better overall than Amare, and Pau hasn’t even played, but the whole forward thing makes it messy and he might get screwed due to being a sophomore.
Also, this negates to mention Tim Duncan who, due to yet another NBA rule (the polar opposite of the Randolph Rule), must always make the ASG. However, he’ll likely go in as a Center.
www.mancancook.net
I'm going to Pook you with Pooking analysis for Pooking sakes
The problem with JT is image: He’s not a fan favorite, and he’s not necessarily better than a lot of the F’s out there. His FG% is really low (which will hurt him in the mainstream jocking of him), and he’s young. That doesn’t help.
If JT is doing this next season, I don’t think there’s any question he’ll get screwed out of an All-Star berth.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
He'll definitely make the Sophomore game
But I doubt he makes the All-Star game unless the coaches pick him as a Center.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Can't wait to see 'Reke dish to JT at the Rookie-Soph game.
Seeing ‘Reke play alongside Brandon Jennings would be cool too. That’d be an awesome backcourt.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Umm...
they’d be playing together, so I really hope ‘Reke isn’t dishing to JT, because that’s a turnover
www.mancancook.net
Yep. It's all about branding. All the other guys are nationally recognized.
JT seems to be strictly known by the ‘headz’ and better fantasy basketball players.
I say JT gets in the All-Star game if two of those guys get hurt. Hell, if Mo Williams can get into an All Star game, I don’t see why JT the Kid can’t.
Question: If JT gets into the All-Star game, does he still play in the Rookie-Soph game as well? For some reason I don’t think he does. Hmm.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Unless it's the Stephen Jackson headcases All Stars
We got AI, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, Zach Randolph, and Shaq as the starrting lineup
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Careful
Or someone is going to grind on you for using such a small sample size.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
His offensive rebounding is impressive; if only he wasn't simply collecting and tipping his own blown lay ups...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
I don't understand how that's a bad thing
Everyone missed shots, the difference is that JT actualy reads where the ball is going and puts it back in the basket. If it’s such a bad thing, why isn’t the other team stopping him?
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Agreed
54% true shooting, so his overall shooting is fairly efficient.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
But misses tips at a high rate.
Last season he made 50% of his Tips, so far this year he’s only making 25%. So, I think TCBB has a point. If JT is missing 3 out of 4 tips on the offensive glass then he’s only getting 2pt on 4 offensive rebounds. Which kind of deminishes the value of his offensive rebounds when compared to bigs who go up strong and finish on the majority of their offensive rebounds.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
with what he makes in tips, we can change his name from Shock to "the Waiter"
that is alot like complaining that Kevin Martin has an ugly jumper. Howerver, I do think his assist rate is complimented by the fact that he does not pass to himself underneath.
JT has improved play, but All-Star – no, not yet.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 16, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Do you think he meant to do that?
He might have, its a sneaky euro thing. He sure seemed to not miss a motion. We all know he likes the pick and roll – maybe he created his own facsimile?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
He's using too much energy re-tipping his own tips
Still learning when to finish a little stronger, when to pull it down and go up strong. I’m getting pretty confident though that he Will learn. I’d rather see some of that wasted (?) energy re-channeled to D boards (picky picky).
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
The kid has a motor
and it’s a hybrid. No wasted energy. :)
He’s playing in the Land of the Giants, and it’s great to see him use his hustle and second and third efforts to win some of those battles.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
I agree lttg
If you aren’t finding ways for your best players to improve you won’t get better as a team.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
That was true when Kevin Martin was around
Less so since. (I think it’s a coincidence.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
coincidence? I think not!
I can prove with statistical certainty that JT’s improved play was directly caused by Speed’s absence, just don’t ask me to prove it.
by BrooklynFan on Nov 16, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's easy, simply pick a ridiculous significance level.
You can prove or disprove anything that way. Although I’d hope most people would notice a sham like that.
the problem is that he doesn't get most of the blown lay ups back...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
The Kevin Martin Factor
Without Kevin in the lineup, JT has had to step up and he’s done just that, making the most of his added touches.
JT’s Numbers, Last 4 Games without Kevin Martin (Kings 4-0)
- Field Goal Attempts: 47 (11.8 per game).
- Free Throw Attempts: 36 (9.0 per game).
- Rebounds: 46 (11.5 per game).
- Points: 79 (19.8 per game).
JT’s Numbers, First 5 Games with Kevin Martin (Kings 1-4)
- Field Goal Attempts: 48 (9.6 per game).
- Free Throw Attempts: 22 (4.4 per game).
- Rebounds: 45 (9.0 per game).
- Points: 55 (11.0 per game).
So he’s getting a couple more shots per game, almost five more free throws per game, 2 1/2 more boards per game and almost eight points more per game.
People wanted to know where the points were going to come from with Kevin out. One of the answers is Jason Thompson.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 12:15 PM PST reply actions
I wonder if Kevin can make himself more efficient in the 2 point land area without going to the FT line as much
when he comes back.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Good question
And I know you’re concentrating on 2 point land because of his ability to draw fouls but I’d go one further and ask if he could become even more efficient from 3 point range.
More points, less shots, less punishment to the body. As Reke gets more comfortable penetrating and kicking it out plus JT working inside (even Hawes), Speed from 3 point land could be a lethal weapon on O.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Speed from 3 point land is already a lethal weapon
I’m actually sort of for the “bring K-Mart in off as a super 6th man” field of thought if the Kings keep playing like this.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Too lethal for the 6th man
Bringing your best shooter in as 6th man? Maybe as he gets back up to speed, but that might be one game. It wasn’t, after all, his shooting hand.
I think we could make it work
We’ll see what happens though, its too early. He’s not near coming back yet.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I think KMart is a 6th man offensive spark for a contender
until he proves me wrong by shoring up his individual and team D.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Yep. If anybody could make it work, it's Coach Westphal.
If he can make this line-up work (think Donte and K-9 becoming true contributors), then he could make K-Mart as 6th man work. It gets me excited when I think that Cisco’s still in the mix too.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I would love for him to take on the Jason Terry role of being 6th man.
He would eat opposing 2nd string players for dinner
Ba-da
That's something the idiotic Bulls do.
ugh.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I wouldn't mind that either
and about the 3 point shot, I though he could focus a bit more on it ala Peja (as I wrote in reply to Mustang)
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I would agree
if I felt like we needed a spark off the bench, but I don’t see that at this point. The Spurs moved Manu to the bench because there was a huge drop off in performance when they went to the bench. We don’t have that…at least not at the 2 or 3.
Probably a great idea
Kevin’s play reminds me of Jamal Crawford, although he can’t get his shot at will as well as Crawford. Playing sixth man would let him focus on offense and rack up points on second stringers who aren’t as efficient scorers and might be a better matchup for his defensive abilities. Win-win.
It’s pretty similar to what Westphal tried to do at the beginning of the season: balance the team’s first and second teams. But I think this would have a lot better results.
I think that would make a pretty exciting second unit: Tyreke or Beno, Kevin, 2 of Udoka, Casspi and Donte and one of our bigs.
In any case, I think we’ve seen the last of Kevin Martin playing 40 minutes a game and dominating the offense to the extent that he outscores our second-best option almost 3-1.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
I'm repeating myself from an earlier thread here
but Speed destroyed people last season when he had to come in off the bench after his injury and this season with improved production from so many players I think Speed as the 6th man would be crippling for a lot of opponents.
Damn...didn't read this when I posted my thing down below.
Jamal Crawford is right.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
He's a Starter - on just about Any team
Certainly ours.
" – and that’s all I have to say about that"
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
I hear ya. It has Jamal Crawford written all over it.
Of even Ben Gordon (Bulls version).
Both are lethal, who are doing very well in 6th man roles.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Just think
Next time we play the Hawks both coaches could just clear everyone off the court but Speed and Crawford, the officials could let the clock run while the two of them played HORSE for twenty twenty five minutes then they’d go sit back down and let the game resume.
Don't tease. I'd really like to see that! LOL. :)
I say Kevin wins with the jumping one handed leaner from the side and over the back board.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
My thoughts exactly
Martin and Evans make a really lethal combo and now add the JT low post presence. What is the other team going to do?
Collapse on Evans to leave Martin open for 3 or leave JT to double so he gets an easy 2. All good for us and bad for them. Got to say its looking better all the time.
He could become a more effective Peja
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
And that's scary
Because Peja was really good in his prime.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
True
and I’m not really trying to compare this one to the old team but I think Peja is a fairly accurate comparison. Kevin could be the 2nd guy on the team, a deadly shooter fighting through screens, only with better athleticism and able to get to the line at will.
I think the players we have complement each other vey well. Thank the worst GM in the league Geoof Petrie
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
going on nothing but my gut
I think a weak defending 2 hurts the team defense much more than a weak defending 3.
In other words, I think Peja was less of a defensive liability than is KMart.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Sounds to me like an arguement for starting K$ at the 3
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 16, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Why do you think that?
Because of matchups? like 2s being for the most part better than 3s?
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I guess my feeling is...
(a) on offense 2s are faster and more dynamic than 3s. So they are harder to guard. Also, a defensive breakdown potentially can cause more havoc, and require help defenders to travel farther away from their men.
(b) because 3s tend to be slower and closer to the basket, they are easier to guard and stay closer to the help defense.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Offensively, yeah Kevin would rock as a 3
but defensively, Melo & LeBron would eat him alive. Bulk is the difference, Kevin’s too light and would get backed into the first row at will.
And Kev off the bench as a 6th man? Love it. He’d be our Manu, but pretty.
There's nothing to fear but everything.
by elfboy_ on Nov 16, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL @ be our Manu but pretty
Rec’d elf.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Manu's new Matt Lauer look ain't pretty?
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
That was then - this is now
Some of the most potent offensive players in the league are now 3s.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Lots of other factors
The thing with this Martin factor is that you can’t say there aren’t other factors. Spencer is starting, May is out, Mason is gone, and the team is playing better overall. PW is really getting the guys going…
I would say this is more from JT polishing the development that we have all been seeing rather than much of anything to do with Martin. To the point where I think he deserves this recognition and is getting it.
You're right, there are other factors, but
Let’s look at a couple of other things:
Last four games:
Offense 108.5 points per game
Defense 101.0 points per game
First 4 games
Offense 101.4 points per game
Defense 108.2 points per game
So we’ve gone from being outscored by almost seven points a game to outscoring the opponent by 7 1/2 points per game. And at the same time, we’ve increased our scoring by seven points game and improved our defense by seven points per game.
We’re getting more scoring, more balanced scoring and better defense, and we’re winning and learning to close out games. And we’re not standing around and relying on one guy to score 30% of our points.
In the first four games, Kevin averaged 30.6 points per game and Spencer was second with 11.8 points per game. I don’t know of too many contenders let alone champions that have that kind of disparity between their best and second-best scorer.
Since Kevin got hurt, let’s see what we have:
- Tyreke, +12.6 pts. per game to 23.8.
- JT, +8.8 pts per game to 19.8.
- Beno, +9.5 pts. per game to 17.3.
- Nocioni, +4 pts. per game to 13.8.
- Spencer, -3 pts. per game to 8.8.
- Donte, +8.8 pts. per game to 8.8.
- Casspi, -3.7 pts. pe rgame to 5.5.
- Udoka, +5.3 pts. per game to 5.3.
- Thomas, +2.8 pts. per game to 2.8.
- Brockman, -1.1 pts. per game to 1.5.
- Rodriguez, +0 pts. per game to 1.0.
- May, -3.3 pts. per game to 0.5.
- Kmart, -30.6 pts. per game to 0.0.
More balance and much harder to defend. Multiple go-to guys capable of stepping up instead of one guy.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, here's something to look at:
First five games (with Kevin): 2 at home, 3 on the road
Last four games (without Kevin): 3 at home, 1 on the road
Overall winning percentage of opponents the Kings have beaten: .408
Overall winning percentage of opponents the Kings have lost to: .513
I think I’ll wait for another road trip and maybe some tougher opposition before making any conclusions on the benefits of Martin’s absence from the lineup.
Good points Otis.
There is going to come a stretch when the offense slows and we will be wishing Martin was around to pick up the slack.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
by jjham15 on Nov 16, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice try
But consider that the teams we played in the last four games and beat without Kevin have a BETTER win percentage than the first five opponents we played.
Overall winning percentage of first 5 opponents: .449
Overall winning percentage of last 4 opponents: .461
So we are playing much better against slightly better competition.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Shouldn't you address the road/home comparison in your response?
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
At home versus the road primarily correct?
You probably need to factor that in.
Look, I see some compelling data here, and I’m not trying to dismiss it out of hand. I just think it’s too soon to read anything into the numbers. The next road trip will be telling though – if the data continues to trend similarly away from ARCO, then you’ll have something.
Home cooking definitely is helping this year
The effort feeds the fans which feeds the effort. Get out to Arco folks, you’re missing something special.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
CC - look at points in the paint
That difference on D is largely due to benching the swinging door that was May, Udoka vs Mason and Noce. The difference on offence due to Noce and again (as poor as he’s shooting) Hawes. Beno and Tyreke picking up some slack though.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget a young team coming together as well.
Lots of new pieces.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I hope we continue to see a balanced attack
I also have to point out that our team shooting percentage was very low in the first five games. It was a point Westphal brought up several times in post game interviews. Hard peg the impetus for improved team FG%, especially in relation to balanced offense, i.e. was Kevin shooting more because his teammates were playing less efficiently or were his teammates shooting less efficiently because Kevin was shooting more? Given how little historical data there is on the team and most of its parts, stats at this point can support either point of view. It all depends on how one decides to frame the debate.
Wait a second here.
Martin is an one variable to look at but probably no the most important one. Since Spencer Hawes replaced Sean May in the starting line-up (the last 5 games), Thompson has posted 5 double-doubles. During that span, Thompson has increased his points per game from 8.2 to 20.2 and his rebounding numbers from 8.2 to 11.6. How is this possible? Thompson has been able to increase his minutes per game from 31.7 to 36.6 while reducing his fouls per game from 4.2 to 4.0 (in nearly 5 minutes more of playing time).
Sean May might be able to develop into a decent bench scoring big but his defense and rebounding deficiencies left Jason Thompson completely exposed in the post during the first 4 games of the season. Thompson either sat on the bench or was forced to play timid for large stretches of the game do to this lack of protection/foul trouble.
Jason Thompson is producing because he is on the floor and not in foul trouble. He is on the floor because he has another big fighting along side him for rebounds and defensive position. I don’t think he is an All-Star yet but I fully expect 4 or 5 invites in his future. It would probably be a little easier for him if more fans actually showed up to the games and voted.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
by jjham15 on Nov 16, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Striking
What has really struck me is that we now see JT making moves he did not do before this season. He is making leaps and bounds in development. He must be very talented and very coachable.
He has missed a few of his first shots with the hook and such, but they are starting to drop. Once that happens more and more frequently we will need to hold onto our seats. His numbers only go up offensively. A lot.
JT looks to be, potentially, one of the most versatile players we have ever had. At least in a really long time. He may not be a huge fan favorite, but that is probably about to change.
If he keep going on the current trajectory I would say he will easily have a lot games in the 25 pts range.
Just thinking of how many points he'd average when he adds to his post up game.
I agree – it’s hard to gauge who’s even a fan favorite when the arena is half empty. I’d like to think that JT will be a huge fan favorite by season’s end.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
yea but
every game ive watched JT has missed at least 3 lay ups, that crap just pisses me off. MAKE THE DAMN LAY UP!!!!
other then that he is working magic on the glass
I like what Jerry Reynolds said to Grant when Peaches harped on JT for not throwing it down
From our angle, it may seem easy to just go up and throw it down, but you have to factor in the defense, distance and angle from the hoop, and the time it would take to pull down the rebound and go up strong. We all assume that it’s easy for these guys to throw down because they’re tall and athletic. As a tall (and formerly athletic) person, I can attest that it’s not the case. Sure, JT’s got 4 inches on me, but I’ll tell you what—it’s a lot harder to dunk from a standing position than it is to do it off the run.
We all want JT to be Amare in his his prime, jumping through and over everybody en route to an explosive dunk in the paint. He’s not quite as strong as Amare, and I don’t think he’s as explosive. Also, when you have two or three 6’8"-to-7’ chums waiting to stuff you, it’s not that simple. I don’t fault JT for trying to tip his shots. It gets the ball off almost uncontested by the defense. The problem is that tipping is a lot harder than it looks. You don’t have the precision on a tip that you have on a jumper or a dunk.
This is something, though, that JT can surely fix. He needs to develop a softer touch around the rim. I’m pretty sure he will.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
I'm not so sure.
I totally see what you’re saying but I think JT is not a super leaper athlete like a Josh Smith or Dwight Howard.
Guys like them rise and bounce faster than JT, which takes nothing away from JT, but says everything about their athleticism. I think The Scarlet Douchebag thinks JT is in the same mold but he’s not.
I agree with that It takes both a softer touch around the rim and patience to be effective around the rim when bigger and more athletic guys are surrounding a player like JT. He’s gonna get better and when he does, it’s gonna be scary.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
There are very few players
That can jump up and down as fast as JT can. Not many keepp going and going and going. Love that energy.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
PW mentioned after the Houston game that JT never gets tired
I think that’s something that goes hand in hand with what you just mentioned.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I think it's the 'going and going' part that separates JT from his competition.
It’s like having Jon Brockman in LaMarcus Aldridge’s body (eh – he’s too thin, first comparison to JT’s frame I could think of). Super effort and heart with above average athleticism.
However, I still don’t think JT has LeBron, Josh Smith or Dwight Howard kind of bounce.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
That's exactly my point
We all want JT to be Amare in his his prime, jumping through and over everybody en route to an explosive dunk in the paint. He’s not quite as strong as Amare, and I don’t think he’s as explosive.
JT is athletic, but he’s not the super athlete it would take for him to explode like we want him to. That’s not to say he can’t throw it down at least a little more—just that the best way for him to improve would be to work on the softer touch around the basket.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Maybe one way is to kick it out to the perimeter to run a new play
after grabbing that board.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
As long as it doesn't keep him from attacking the boards, I'm fine with it
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Agreed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I'll settle for J.T. jumping like Dwight . . .
How does a player develop a softer touch around the basket (or anywhere): more arch, the amount of force used, accuracy, or type of hand moisturizer used??
Ba-da
More backspin on the ball, higher arch
It’s definitely a learnable skill.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
I didn't think about more back spin
Which is a little easier on a jump shot then a put back or tip. I’m sure he’ll work on it.
Ba-da
He'll learn
Its the first few games of his second year.
I know though, I want to talk to him and remind him that Amare and LaBron don’t think a dunk exposes them as unathletic or unskilled.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Why has Jason Thompson improved?
Dedication, effort, coaching, intelligence.
How Jason Thompson has improved: footwork (the dude has ginormous dogs, his footwork is still a work in progress), confidence in his ball handling and passing, big improvement in strength – upper body and core strength – better post moves (not so many spins), better awareness of the offense, less late coverage of the backcourt breakdown (thank you Tyreke).
Seeing a (former) prized rookie develop into a solid veteran is a thing of beauty – when they have a winning personality like JT is a unique pleasure.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 16, 2009 2:18 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Do you guys think JT can be a 20+/12 guy someday?
I am loving the effort, the relentless attitude, and the smarter decisions.
I really want to see him play equal or outplay the best power forwards, before making any bold proclamations.
In particular, I want to see how new and improved JT does against:
Amare
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
KG
The early word on JT was solid role player. He has clearly achieved that status. Now I think the next question is, does he have all-star potential??? My inclination is to say that he is a budding star if he learns to convert around the basket. If he can discover a half-hook, and develop a left hand, watch out.
(Forgive if this has been discussed above, the f’n boss is lingering…)
I do.
Especially if he keeps playing without fouling. He’s only in his 2nd year.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
He's still fouling
PW just isn’t reacting as often. I also think JT doesn’t reach when he has 3 fouls either.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
He's not fouling as much though.
He is learning.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I think the article that initiated this conversaton states otherwise
re: JT’s fouls per game.
Exactly Brooklyn
JT is still fouling. He’s just fouling with a better purpose.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I wonder
now that he stays on the court more minutes per game isn’t he actually fouling less per minute?
No if, when
All he has to do is improve his scoring off of the offensive rebounds. Once that happens he is going to be sitting at 20 just about every game.
I'd like to address this portion
Thompson still averaged less than 32 minutes a game. Thompson’s foul rate hasn’t lowered significantly (4.9 per 36 to 4.3), but Westphal has decided to keep him on the court for longer stretches. That’s helped the per-game numbers reach (to date) All-Star level. And that helps get J.T. the attention he deserves.
PW mentioned in one of the video’s of after practice that JT was keeping his hand out of the cookie jar. And, I think that’s a good point in of itself.
JT"s fouls may not be going down, but his CHEAP TICKY TACK fouls are (for the moment) a thing of the past. PW got on him early, and JT seemingly has broken that habit for the time being. If that happens, you’re going to have big men get fouls. Because they’re so close to the basket, you’re going to expect them to get into foul trouble on a few occasions simply for that reason alone.
I’ll use Tim Duncan & Ben Wallace as examples. Or maybe not. They’re fouls over the course of the season are less than 2.5 for their career’s.
I’ll go for Chris Kaman instead. I think that is a better example of how players can improve their foul situation as they get older.
I agree that PW deserves credit for helping Jason Thompson (and probably the coaching staff like Truck Robinson in particular). Whatever it is, the coaching staff has found ways to utilize JT despite having the same skill set as a rookie. That says a lot in my view.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 16, 2009 2:57 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree and rec'd
He is using his fouls in a more productive way. Fewer hand checks, more ’I’m stopping the dunk or layup’
What I don’t agree with is
despite having the same skill set as a rookie
He has greatly improved his left, his footwork and added a little jumphook now and then.
Still a work in progress – but evolution.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
His footwork might be a tad better
What I see is almost the same player just utilized far better.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
More than footwork or utilization
It is the same player, but he is being very well coached and it seems clear that he has some new low post moves. He is showing skills that he just plainly didn’t have last year. As has been pointed out, the left hand is also making an appearance. Last year he played down low like a PG. Getting the ball and dribbling. He had few low post skills.
He's also getting more touches
to put that improved footwork into action. That helps him get into a lot better rhythm. Plus the team is getting him the ball repeatedly on the left low block, so he gets to work on some of the same moves.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That could be very true (the touches help the footwork) that Jt's rhythm is better
I agree that he’s becoming more consistent as well because he’s gotten comfortable on certain places on the floor.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
One more thing
In the last game at least and possibly since that game where Tyreke posted up the last five minutes, they’ve stopped posting Tyreke up as much and are instead posting up JT more on the same side.
So JT is generally getting the ball at three places: left block, left of the basket and left foul line extended. So he goes straight up, he goes into the lane for the hook or hr squares up and fires from 15. And he has all those shots in his repertoire, although he is still improving on the bunnies.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 16, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone know of a place
That tracks foul splits between offensive and defensive? Someone on the site mentioned they felt JT wasn’t getting called for as many offensive fouls as in the past, which could account for part of the discrepancy.
he's certainly not traveling when he posts up like he did last season
So, yeah this could be part of it.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 16, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah Otis that could be it actually
You’d have to comb through games a year ago to answer that Otis, but I do think that’s a part of it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Maybe not
JT @ 82games last year(offensive fouls)
JT @ 82games this year(offensive fouls)
JT from ESPN
Last season:
82 games, 314 total fouls, 31 offensive fouls
This season:
9 games, 37 total fouls, 4 offensive fouls
Those ratios are similar enough considering the small sample size this year to be not a factor.
On a side note, from those 82games links his “hands rating” has really improved.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 16, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
At that rate Kfan
He’s actually getting more offensive fouls than LAST YEAR. I think it’s almost all of his reaching in the cookie jar more than anything. He’s just not doing that anymore.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Stupid reply button
What I said below. Too small a sample.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
True, true.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Yes, and no
If he had averaged 2+ offensive fouls a game last season and only 0.5 a game this season. It could have meant the possibility of something with the warning of a small sample size.
In this case the ratios are nearly the same, so we can say that it seems to not be a factor.
Although if he got 2-3 of those fouls in one game and played fewer minutes in that game as a result and thus only 1 or 2 offensive fouls in the other 8 games, that could be an indicator of something. Again with the caveat of a small sample size.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 16, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
My point is that it's not necessarily a higher rate
He’s actually getting more offensive fouls than LAST YEAR.
With such a small sample, there’s no way we can say—with confidence—that he’s going to have more offensive fouls this year than last.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Oh, I see
I thought you were saying my post was meaningless, and agreeing with Pookey, because of sample size. My bad.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 16, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
The sample size is much too small to infer anything
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
No they're all on CSN CA
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Its free on any cable or DTV package
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 16, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
same with DISH if I'm not mistaken.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I don't think he has either gents
Hence the News10 question.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
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