Another Viewpoint: Defensive Disruption as Strategy
by Tom Ziller on Nov 2, 2009 10:15 AM PST
in Commentary
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PrintIt's still not clear to me whether Paul Westphal has told his guards to play for the steal or whether it's a strategy they have decided to employ on their own. Yesterday, I joined the broadcast crew in bemoaning the strategy -- Grant Napear and Jerry Reynolds have discussed the risks involved in playing for the steal during each of the three games thus far, usually when Tyreke Evans or Kevin Martin lunge for a backcourt steal and come up empty. By ancedote, which is to say by viewing the game, it's not working -- too often the fruitless lunge leads to a fairly easy score for the opponent.
I talked with a friend Sunday about the apparent strategy, and he made some terrific points which have me rethinking this a bit.
Or a lot. He pointed out Philadelphia's defense, which last season finished 13th in the league ... despite ranking 19th in shooting defense and 25th in defensive rebounding. How'd they do it? By stealing the ball frequently: Philly finished 3rd in opponent turnover rate. So despite being bad at forcing tough shots and being awful at rebounding opponent misses (creating more and easier shots for the opponent), Philadelphia ended up with an above-average defense -- a playoff-caliber defense.
Miami, the league's No. 12 defense last season, did something similar. The Heat finished 16th in shooting defense, 19th in defensive rebounding, 21st in opponent free throw rate and ... 4th in opponent turnover rate. Below average in all but one category, but so good in that category that the team finished with the 12th best defense in the league. Milwaukee was another one: 15th in overall defense, 17th in shooting defense, 11th in defensive rebounding, 30th in opponent free throw rate, 1st in turnover defense.
For the Kings, a measure of whether this is the right strategy will not only be its success rate, but the recovery rate for the other four defenders. If every failed attempt results in a made basket, you'll have to be successful on more than half of your steal attempts, which seems really unlikely (though I don't have the data to back that up). But if the opponent's shooting percentage doesn't spike to ungodly levels when you gamble, then you can actually improve your bottom line by gambling. It's like stealing bases. It's a cost-benefit analysis on every play.
In the physical sense, Evans and Martin might be perfect weapons for this strategy. Both are oversized at their positions, and each can finish well in the open court.
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Interesting
If the team defense can gel a bit better then this could really work. Right now it is just about two points every time there is a missed steal.
Evans seems the best equipped and able to steal the ball so far. He really is creating problems with that wingspan and quickness…
Agree other 4 players are Key
The Kings aren’t always the fastest team at getting back. And, the bigs aren’t getting back deep enough. Players are getting behind them and getting to the basket uncontested. I know that was the case on one of the steal attemps.
In the NO game Paul got the ball and drove the length of the court, with Sergio on him the whole way, And, by the time Paul made his layup, May was the deepest King and he had only gotten to the dotted line. Paul and Sergio ran completely past all the Kings down the left side of the lane and not one player got in their way.
At times the Kings are jogging back on defense, with their backs to the ball, instead of racing back to set up.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I'm not sold.
The question is, do you have to have good defenders to pull off this kind of defensive strategy, or does this type of strategy make up for the deficiencies of individual defenders?
I personally like disruptive defenses, but do we have the players who can pull this off?
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 2, 2009 11:07 AM PST reply actions
We might
For a good portion of the third quarter against New Orleans, the Kings were clearly quicker and more physical than the Hornets. It was weird to watch, a Kings team imposing their defensive will on a quality opponent (on the road, no less). It was just a glimpse of course, as the rest of the road trip was a mixed bag defensively.
But in that little bit of court time, I saw more potential from them defensively than I’ve seen from a Kings team in quite a few seasons.
Desmond Mason - Untied the balloon in Colorado, forged Obama's birth certificate, and ruined the careers of Omri Casspi and Tyreke Evans.
NOt since Artest & Adelman were part of the Kings
Had I seen defense like that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed to a point.
Not sure if NO is a quality opponent any more.
But – yes, this season’s Kings defense is loaded with potential. Most of our players seemed to know where to be and who to help if they needed it. The NO game was truly inspiring to watch.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Team defense is a team effort
Organization and chemistry leads to a good defense. Right now, the team is fairly new and still needs to develop a chemistry to communicate and anticipate on the defensive end. For example, the old Pistons were one of the best teams in the league in terms of defense, yet most of the players plays for years and years on the same team, so they had great communication and organization. Another great example is the Spurs.
A great individual defense translates into team defense. For example, Ron Artest is such a great defender, not because he racks up a billion steals a night, but because he knows how to funnel his players into the big men, which leads to stops. It’s the big man’s job, then, to provide great shot disruption.
I’m sure Haws can develop into a great shot blocker. Hell, he was averaging, what, about 3 blocks per game at the beginning of last season? He has it in him. Everyone has potential on this team, but it all breaks down to team effort.
One positive about Hawes coming off the bench
is that he shouldn’t have to worry about foul trouble as much. I would love to start seeing him be more agressive in going after blocks and attacking the ball for rebounds.
But is it because those teams have people inside who are pretty good interior defenders?
Philadelphia has Dalembert and Speights, Heat have Jermaine O’Neal and Haslem, Milwaukee had Bogut (for a bit at least). Perhaps they could afford to gamble for some steals because they knew that the interior defense would back them up.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
JT & Spencer are averaging 2 blks a game, but after them we've got nothing.
maybe it’s more important when to try to steal rather than who’s back to defend. If this is going to be a new ongoing strategy, it probably wasn’t a good idea to start off using it on CP3 and TP,
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Yep. That's what I was thinking. Philly has Dalembert too.
It’s always easier to steal knowing you have a great second line of defense. The F*kers have Bynum and Pau. The Celtics have KG and Perk.
Not sure if our second line of defense is solidified with a true shot blocker.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Philly is a great example
But there big men are more athletic, quicker, and protect the rim with there shot-blocking better. That is, excluding Elton Brand, of course.
I wish we had Speights so bad. Him and Young are the guys who make Philly’s gambling D successful.
I think for us to actually succeed at it we need our big men to play better team D.
And when Westphal talks about Donte’s niche being defense, I think that is what he is talking about. A combo 3/4 who can recover quickly and intimidate with blocked shots.
Also, if the guards are gambling all the time, maybe it would be more effective to have the big men play a zone instead of man. I haven’t seen much of the games so far, but it would seem to fit the players and the strategy better to have a combo zone where the bigs stay in position and the guards gamble for steals. Instead of a box-and-1 more of a triangle-and-2
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Nov 2, 2009 11:27 AM PST via mobile reply actions
a triangle and 2
Makes Evans and Martin, or alternately Evans and Mason, guarding the other teams best perimeter players. The 2 bigs cover the baseline and then either Mason or Martin guards the free throw line, and puts them in a good position to also go after steals and deflections.
It would seem to me to be the best way to use a player like Hawes, who can block shots but isn’t well equipped to always guard other big centers. Spencer has a high basketball IQ though, and I think he and Shock could do well in this strategy.
It makes sense that Mason would be starting if this is what Westphal wants to do, particularly if he want Evans and Mason to guard the best perimeter players. This would put Kevin in position to be a trailer on the break.
I think that Nocioni could be used well in this strategy or a diamond-and-1. He is tough and likes to slap at the ball.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Nov 2, 2009 11:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Perhaps such a defensive strategy could work well
against certain kinds of teams but not others.
The Spurs might handle the ball too capably as a team for such a gamble-focused defense. Ginobli and Parker made the Kings look out of position the entire second and third quarter.
Peja-vu!
i agree. but they havent been playing this strategy very long either
But obviously certain adjustments must be made. It will take the coaching staff a while to tweak it and for the players to learn it.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Nov 2, 2009 11:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Philly used a match up zone
Where they start man to man but switch a lot to cover the ball and guard for cutters. North Carolina has used that very well too. It takes a lot of time to learn, and every team obviously will use it different.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Nov 2, 2009 11:58 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Good Strategy
Especially considering Martin is not a very good one on one defender. In fact, not many of the Kings are very good 1-on-1 defenders. Going for steals may be something they are fairly good at. It’s something else for us to watch for.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Great, after we traded Ron Artest
We implement the gamble-for-steals defense? Man, it would sure be nice to have AI on this team…
Victory is tasty.
I hope it isn't a strategy...
The reason: Tyreke Evans. Folks keeps talking about his ability to take the ball to the cup, but some of the most impressive flashes of brilliance I have seen from him have been his exceedingly rare ability to stop or irritate penetration from 1-guards. He has, in spots, really frustrated the likes of Chris Paul and Steve Nash with his length and mobility.
So, you’ve got guy who has the fundamental tools to be the best lockdown one-on-one defender of both quick 1s and strong 2s in the NBA — would you teach him to gamble on defense? Is that the best use of his assets?
good point
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 2, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed. +1.
I think he should be allowed to gamble at times. But for now, since our defense isn’t where it needs to be, ’Reke and Kev should tone it down a bit.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I can see a little bit of the hope involved in that thought process
The reality is though that neither of those defences was top 10.
If you take a look at the spurs D this past decade the key factor was always opposition FG% and defensive rebounding.
Those are group schemes that require time to become cohesive. Gambling for steals is a weakness in that scenario.
Paul Westphal probably knows more than i do though.
"When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges."
by Bushka on Nov 2, 2009 1:58 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
gambling for steals is for bad defensive teams
That is what we are. The same way as playing a lot of full court press is used by weaker teams to upset a better one in March Madness.
We are a bad defensive team that needs to take some risks on occasion. As the team shows that they are getting better in practice at defense then they will have to take fewer risks.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Nov 2, 2009 2:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
i see your point
the only issue i have with that philosophy is that you can form poor defensive habits.
It can take an entire season of playing a particular style and scheme the correct way to become a fluid unit.
Again i love the spurs, however their D this year is nowhere near the pace of 2 to 3 years ago, simply because they have so many new additions who don’t know the system and have yet to become skilled within that system.
They will play in that manner however until it becomes second nature. If you ingrain gambling on D as something that is acceptable you run the risk that it will eventually become the norm.
Again though i know that PW is a hell of a lot better at understanding a basketball game than I am, and for all the world i cannot imagine that he has not thought through where he wants these guys to go in terms of team defence.
…p.s i keep switching between Defence & Defense.. it’s just because i’m an aussie writing on American language forums.
"When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges."
I'll see your point and raise you
And how many of those “gambling” teams did much in the playoffs? Ever? Obviously we aren’t even dreaming of dreaming about the playoffs this year, but I would rather have our young players learn good, fundamental D now that will benefit us in the future over trying to overinflate our defensive ranking this year by using poor form. The best defensive team play good man and help defense.
Whatever uses the Kings talent best
That’s what I’m for….on offense as well as defense. Perhaps that’s part of what makes a good/great coach. Tweaking a system to fit the talent. And the Kings need to do whatever they can (d rebounding/steals) to get them running. Talk about untapped talents…Reek, Kmart, JT, Hawes and Casspi running the break. Awesome!
Well, last night it seemed to work.
I would rather see them play good defense, but it really depends on how well they control the boards as well. Last night they were slaughtered on the boards 57-40, so they had to make it up in the steals department and turnover game. They won the turnover battle 21-13 and racked up 8 steals in the process. It’s an interesting strategy though to keep an eye on. With Martin, I can definitely see it as a better method to employ to use his quickness, but Tyreke is long enough and physical enough that I would hate to see him reach when he could just shut his man down with good movement with his feet to deny penetration.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
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