Taking Stock
Both of these guys have played at ARCO Arena this year, but not for us. This is a good thing.
Twelve games represents 15% of the NBA season. In baseball terms, it would be about the equivalent of the month of April. And while there is a long way to go in the season, you can begin to draw some basic conclusions and comparisons as it pertains to the Sacramento Kings and the players that make up the current roster. This is not to say that this conversation could not take a completely different turn in 30, 60 or 90 days. But to this point in the season, here are my musings (and please remember to take into consideration how much you paid to log on here when you assess a true value to the following comments).
Kevin Martin – The goods: 31 pts., 3 assists(!), 5 boards(!!) and 2 steals(!!!) per game. True shooting had dropped below 57%, which is still very good. These numbers are all-star numbers. Martin was on his way to becoming the more complete player that we were begging for him to become.
The not-so-goods: Martin is hurt…again. And once we worked through the verbiage and concluded that Martin is not soft but has been injury prone, we were left to ponder whether Kevin Martin can stay healthy enough to be a consistent contributor to this Kings team. Certainly, Martin cannot afford to suffer another substantial for the duration of his current contract. Back in March of 2008, I wrote a post explaining that I did not want to invest in Ron Artest based solely on the number of games that he had missed. Ron-Ron had missed 19-27% of the games that he could have played in since he became a starter in the league (depending on whether or not you wanted to count his Detroit brawl suspension). As of today, Martin has missed 26% of the games that he could have played in since becoming a starter, and that number will grow over the next couple of months. Martin has got to figure out how to shake the injury bug, or he will become the modern day Rex Chapman – a player known for what could have been.
Tyreke Evans – The goods: Clearly one of the top two rookies in the league to this point (along with Brandon Jennings). 18 pts., 5 boards and assists and a couple of steals per game. Barely 51% true shooting, but that is not bad for a rookie, especially one that started the season below 50% at the free throw line (now up to 75%). And he has been (according to Paul Westphal) the team’s best defensive player. I’m not saying that Tyreke will become our Brandon Roy, but I am saying that the possibility of that happening at least exists.
The not-so-goods: I got nothing. There are certainly areas where Evans can improve, but to this point he has been so far beyond our early season hopes for him, any criticism would really be nitpicking. Let’s re-visit this in about a month or so.
Jason Thompson – The goods: Compared to last year, JT is +3 pts., +2 boards, +1 block and +1 assist in +7 minutes. Free throw percentage up 11%. Thompson has improved his perimeter jumper, and is developing a left hand(!).
The not-so-goods: Last year, Thompson averaged a foul every 7 minutes. This year he is averaging a foul every 8 minutes, which is not much of an improvement. And while I will agree that some of the fouls on Thompson are of the cheap variety, the majority of these fouls are a result of JT using his hands on defense instead of his feet. Once Thompson masters the art of defending with his feet, the foul trouble should abate. Thompson also needs to improve on recognizing and reacting to double teams now that opposing teams are paying more attention to him.
Spencer Hawes – The goods: Um…he’s 21?
The not-so-goods: He is exactly the same as last year’s Spencer Hawes. Hawes shows flashes of who he could become, but he also has long rough patches. This might not be as big of a deal on some other teams, but when your production alternatives are Kenny Thomas, Jon Brockman and Sean May, the shortcomings are greatly accentuated. Hawes does not need to become great over the next couple of months, but he does need to become a consistent contributor.
Beno Udrih – The goods: 17 pts. and 5 assists per game as a starter. The best (only?) mid-range shooter on the team.
The not-so-goods: Non-existent. This is the best ball that Udrih has played in his life. The question will be how productive he will be once Martin returns.
Andres Nocioni – The goods: Andres has improved his trade stock and become more valuable to the current Kings squad at the same time. I don’t see Noc as being in the long term rebuilding plan, but I sure don’t have an issue with him staying here, either.
The not-so-goods: Will we still feel warm and fuzzy about Noc as Greene and Casspi continue to develop and Garcia returns?
Omri Casspi – The goods: Are you kidding? Did anyone see 22 minutes a game for this kid after summer league? Or 9 pts., 4 boards per game? And the guy is tougher than Kenny Thomas’ tax liability on payday.
The not-so-goods: 3-16 from the free throw line before hitting his last 6. Casspi is currently better from 3 (43%) than the free throw line (41%). Westphal has said that this is a result of Casspi being a little too amped up when he gets to the line (the same applies for Brockman).
Donté Greene – Donté is only getting about a minute and a half more playing time per game, but he has more than doubled his scoring. Greene is shooting 56% from the field (33% last year), and there is no comparison when it comes to his defense and overall court presence.
The not-so-goods: Donté grabs a rebound every 10 minutes, the same rebounding rate owned by 6’0" Minnesota point guard Johnny Flynn.
Ime Udoka – The goods: To paraphrase Jerry Reynolds, Udoka is the one guy that you can put on the floor with any four other players, and you will get the same positive contribution. Udoka is definitely a guy that takes what the game gives him, and he rarely hurts you. He is a good guy to have until Martin and Garcia return, and he will probably be a good teammate if he is retained after that (think Ty Corbin).
The not-so-goods: He’s 32? I got nuthin’.
Sean May – The goods: 1 year, $825k contract.
The not-so-goods: Behind Kenny Thomas, Jon Brockman and Truck Robinson on the depth chart.
Sergio Rodriguez – The goods: Best assist/turnover ratio on the team (2.8/1).
The not-so-goods: Defensively, makes Mike Bibby look like Gary Payton.
Jon Brockman – The goods: A rebound every 2 and a half minutes.
The not-so-goods: Sean May is taller lying down than Brockman is standing up, and that’s a shame. This motor deserves a bigger vessel.
Kenny Thomas – The goods: 5.5 boards per game. Thomas has pulled down 44 rebounds this year – he pulled down 77 in 2007-08 and 2008-09 combined.
The not-so-goods: Woof? I’ll give Thomas credit – he’ll never contribute to the size of his contract, but he is contributing.
Paul Westphal and staff – The goods: They have this team playing damn hard, and that’s all that most of us were asking for at the beginning of the season. Westphal has not been afraid to play the youngsters at important moments of the game (of course, as young as this team is perhaps he has no choice), and he has been communicative, appreciative and firm with his squad.
The not-so-goods: I don’t know. There have been those that have questioned some of his in-game decisions, but I’m just to giddy to quibble right now. All I wanted at the beginning of the season was for the last two minutes of the game to matter. To this point, my wish has been more than granted.
10 recs |
119 comments
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Comments
Good stuff.. Rec'd
I would add that Sergio is an amazing passer and can get more assists per minute than any other King. I was really impressed during the last few outings. This last game he got 4 assists in something like 11 minutes.
by MustangMBS on Nov 22, 2009 2:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Difficult decision Tyreke, Beno, or Sergio
I don’t believe that Sergio is playing bad defense. Maybe his reputation was deserved. But, I’m going to judge him by what I see. And, I see, a guy trying to stay infront of some pretty quick guards. A guy with quick hands and quick to react to the ball. Certainly, not a downgrade from Beno.
He finishes better at the basket than Beno without all the Ill-advised attempts to split the double team. And, his passing make for a better chance to set up the bigs down low.
Having said that, Beno & Tyreke have been a very good combo. And, the return of Tyreke, Martin & Cisco is going to make this a guard heavy team, maybe even more so than SF.
I do think that Tyreke are better suited for the OG position, at this point in Tyreke’s development. And, he can certainly, score & defend the way he currently is from the SG position. Beno’s main weakness at PG is Sergio’s strength, that being passing. Making Beno also better suited at OG.
I hope PW gets Sergio more than his current 9mpg while Martin is out. Especially, when Beno’s shot isn’t going down. Because Sergio is shooting as well as Beno, though in fewer attempts. It would be nice to see what Sergio can do to help the team, before we have to decide on whether or not to resign him. Or, should the opportunity come up to move Beno.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You bring up some good points HT
You got me thinking when you said
Having said that, Beno & Tyreke have been a very good combo. And, the return of Tyreke, Martin & Cisco is going to make this a guard heavy team, maybe even more so than SF
.
Lately we’ve been discussing whether to trade Noc and pretty much we all agree that we can’t keep both Cisco and him. Shouldn’t we also include Beno on that list and maybe take advantage of his good play to move his contract? For all his good play, I’d guess about 75% of posters here wanted to get rid of him last season and this past summer.
Cisco is a very good option at backup SG and he can handle also handle the ball. Could there be a possibility of keeping both Cisco and Noc but trading Beno? I believe it would be a bit harder to trade him than trad Noc, for example, but I think that should something maybe the front office should be looking at.
If Beno goes, we still have Sergio playing backup PG to Reke and Cisco playing backup to Kevin. Tyreke and Cisco could really play any of the G positions depending on matchups. Just an idea to consider…
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
by edm7 on Nov 22, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm
PGs are always at a premium – but ask me again in january
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Kings will trade Beno because his game fits so well with Tyreke
And that matters a great deal with Kevin Martin being unavailable.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
beno is good for the team
solid PGs who can run a team are hard to find, wings are a dime a dozen
by Pollard4LIfe on Nov 22, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need Beno to fit Tyreke's game
Teams are switching their SG to Tyreke because their PG can cover Beno. Se, we lose Tyreke’s size advantage at PG. Right now we’re really playing two SG’s not PG’s. They’re both adequate ballhandlers, but suspect passers, with little court vision. Not that Tyreke won’t improve, which he will. But, Beno has been playing PG for a long time, and I think he is closer to being another Mike Bibby then a true playmaker.
Tyreke with Martin or Cisco is a better fit, then Tyreke & Beno. But, if you want to go to a more traditional backcourt until Martin’s return, then Sergio & Tyreke is a better fit. We might lose some scoring, but I think we gain in more assists & less turnovers.
I’d play Sergio with Tyreke as the starting backcourt, then backup up with Sergio & Beno or Beno with Tyreke.
And, I totally agree with edm7. When Martin & Cisco come back, I’d move Beno before Noc. And, if we could get a backup center as part of either deals, I’d move Beno & Noc..
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beno is a SG who can play PG
Or you could say he is more of a tweener at best. I would love to see him used as a SG. He really can hit that long ball.
by MustangMBS on Nov 22, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully sometime soon
there won’t be a need for players who fit with Reke; he’ll just fit with whatever we have. IMO that’ll happen when he becomes a star in this league. Finger crossed
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
by edm7 on Nov 22, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know this HT
I didn’t say Beno was a better fit alongside Tyreke than Kevin Martin potentially; I said that Beno is a good fit alongside Tyreke. That in of itself is exactly what I think makes Beno valuable to this team. You can play him at both G spots, and you can play him with both Tyreke & Kevin.
Sorry, but Francisco Garcia may not have as much value long term on this time right now. Neither does Noc potentially, but that’s my opinion.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
on this team^
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cisco is here for another five years
So, do you think he isn’t valuable long term because of his injuries? I see him as a pretty good fit alongside Tyreke because he can handle the ball, shoot three, and plays multiple positions. He is also not a bad defender, from what I’ve seen.
by king4life on Nov 22, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
too bad we haven’t gotten a chance to see that yet.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mention Cisco for several reasons
The first is that he may become more expendable if Noc & Omri are too valuable to move. Second, Beno’s value may not be something that another team may want to move, and therefore moving Garcia will become a priority if the Kings can find a way to dump his contract in the process.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that being the better choice
I just like more offensive and defensive balance. And, as good as Beno’s defense has been this year, he’s still a disadvantage mismatch when teams can put their SG on Tyreke and cover Beno with a PG. Where Martin & Cisco are too big for PG’s and can use their 3pt shoot over the top of most PG’s.
I agree with you that Tyreke & Beno are playing well together. And, Beno is a better fit than Sergio, if the Kings continue to play Tyreke as the PG. If they were to play Sergio as a starter, the Kings FO would have to admit that Tyreke was playing SG, and open a whole can of worms with the “He’s not a PG arguement”.
I think where you & I are banging heads, has more to do with the future when Martin & Cisco are back at full strength. I believe that the Kings can get more for Beno & Noc in a trade. And, what they would get out of Cisco’s size & defense, versus Beno’s shooting and ballhandling, makes Cisco a adequate backup for Martin.
As far a Sergio,I guess the point could be made that Beno could replace both Sergio & Cisco in the backup PG & SG roles. I just would rather hire a specialist rather than a Jack of All Trades for some jobs. And, I still believe that the Kings need a Playmaking PG more than a backup OG that can play Point.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 23, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree about the playmaking PG to a large degree
I think the Kings have plenty of playmaker’s. It’s just that you don’t have that one player who does that as a strength.
When the Kings had Bibby, Christie, Stojakovic, Webber and Divac, who was the primary playmaker? I know that’s extreme, but that is, too, my point. Sometimes the best way to build a team is put players who do all the things you need them to do regardless of position.
I disagree, mostly, with your insistence on traditional positions. I simply don’t agree.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 23, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Martin to NJ and get their lottery pick
Then draft John Wall, “all is well remain calm”
by Beagle12 on Nov 22, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just something to keep in mind going forward
I recognize the good things Beno is doing for this team this year, but we are gonna have to trade one (or more) of those contracts (Noc, Cisco, or Beno) so it’d be a good idea to start considering WaBeno as a trade chip while he still has ok value.
There’s no rush until Cisco comes back really so I’l make sure to ask back in January/ February
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
by edm7 on Nov 22, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know you're just looking ahead
Its so hard to know what the situation will be by then though. They could all be hurt, we could be in contention for a playoff spot [ :) ], who knows? I want to win games for now.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Beno's value ever gets as high as expiring contracts
flush
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 22, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, if Beno can keep this up, I don't mind him staying.
I’d rather use Sergio, KThomas and maybe even Noce/Garcia to get the Kings a quality big.
Question is, what kind of quality big can they bring in? We’ve already had the Dalembert scenario as well as the Okafor scenario and neither one seems to be happening.
There can only be one Noce!
by NoceOne on Nov 22, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Our run stopped when Sergio replaced Beno. This was one of those games where we probably needed Beno to play more than 40 minutes to have a better chance to win.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But then
The game before that, was it that one or the previous.., the offense was completely stalled and Sergio came in to light it up huge… So, it may not be a simple issue.
by MustangMBS on Nov 22, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But why?
Did Sergio distribute the ball worst than Beno? Or, did the shooters that Sergio got the ball to simply not make the shot. Or, did Beno, not pass the ball, and just shot it himself and had a good shooting night.
We have shooters and we’re one of the highest scoring team. What’s holding us back is team defense, and turnovers. If Beno could reduce his turnovers and increase his assists, it would be perfect. But, Beno isn’t a rookie, and I’m not sure his ceiling is more than 5 apg.
Sergio brings something different to the court. Speed, passing & court vision, and he’s shown that he’s capable of dishing out double digit assists. If this team doesn’t need Sergio, it needs someone like him more then it needs another Mike Bibby lite.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sergio is worse than Beno
especially now, because he’s not as good on offense as Beno. Essentially, he can be completely ignored when we’re on offense, unless he has the ball, and even when he has it, he’s not actually a threat to score.
If we were rolling Tyreke/Kevin/JT and someone out there with Sergio in some kind of small lineup, that makes sense because those guys can create shots. Sergio + four guys that are marginal offensive players right now isn’t going to work; it needs Beno’s ability to create a shot.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 22, 2009 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on a small sample size
Sergio is shooting .500 from 3pt range, and as well as Tyreke, Noc, & Martin at around 43% from the field. So, I doubt that he can be completely ignored.
And, yes Beno is scoring. He’s 2nd only to Tyreke in FGA’s. Taking 3 times as many shots as he has assists. But, as much as I love offense, and the team does need offense with Martin out, I’d rather see 8pts & 11 assts from Sergio. Especially it most of the assists were from setting up our bigs for high percentage shots.
I don’t know if Sergio can do that on a regular basis, with starters minutes. But, it would be good to find out by the time Martin & Cisco return. There are 96 minutes between the PG & SG. And, with Martin out, I don’t see why Sergio should only be getting 9mpg.
PW has changed his mind on PT & Starters Minutes, for May, Mason, Spencer, Omri, Thomas, & Donte since the season started. I just hope Sergio in next.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beno had 8 assists/ 1 TO last night / 20 pts
I hardly think you blame much on him for that game.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beno has been special this year
I don’t blame him for any of the failures of the team this year. And, as outstanding as 8 assists were last game, it only upped his average to 4.3apg.
I’m still of the mind that the Kings need a playmaking point guard who can set up JT & Spencer with passes in the post, that lead to high percentage shots. For now there are enough minutes for Tyreke, Beno & Sergio at guard.
When Martin & Cisco return that will be a different story. Cisco is a better option to back up Martin because teams won’t be able to switch their PGs to him & Martin and play Tyreke with their SG. Which means only backup minutes behind Tyreke, for both Beno & Sergio. And, to me that makes Beno expendable as a valueable trade chip.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cisco may never be the same
We certainly hope not, but, damage to the ligaments in his shooting/handling wrist.
I think its too early to worry about what to do when he’s back. If he’s fully healed I’d rather have him than Sergio doing the extra ball handling though as Cisco at least efforts on both ends of the floor and is a reliable scorer.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
But what if Cisco brings in that quality big we seem to be lacking?
There can only be one Noce!
by NoceOne on Nov 22, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think its doubtful he'll be healthy enough
before the trade deadline to make that happen during the season. No one will take the chance.
After? Lets see how things play out, but no one is untradable for the right piece in my book.
Cisco is one of my favorite guys though and brings the kind of attitude the whole team has played with so far this year.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed again.
That being said, I do wish his wrist will be 100%. I think we can get away with this current group going deep in the playoffs.
There can only be one Noce!
by NoceOne on Nov 22, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cisco is BYC
That trade is not happening until summertime at the earliest.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
right
unless something Very strange came up.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 23, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it's a big TPE that Orlando has (which they won't use)
Or a team with cap room like OKC, that very strange possibility won’t happen this year.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 23, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed that
He’s (Sergio) shown that he’s capable of dishing out double digit assists.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His season average is double digits
1.8.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 22, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
There were a few stretchs where the ball seemed like it was glued to Sergio’s hands. We need him to make the pass, not hold onto the ball forever.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
There were a few stretches where that did occur, but I saw this as the D of the other teams were locked down on our guys. Sergio did the right thing in those instances and took it to the hole to score. But maybe I missed something…
by MustangMBS on Nov 23, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think your pretty much right on
It’s the players responsibility to get open, and not Sergio’s responsibility to force a questionable pass into good coverage. Beno did that from 8 ft away, and Scola stole the pass in the 4th quarter.
There’s a different mentality when Tyreke is at Point. Players know that he’s going to drive the lane. So, they clear out the paint and wait for the kick out. With Sergio, there needs to be more movement. Players need to use and set screens or picks. And, the bigs need it mix it up in the paint. Maybe as Sergio gets more PT (currently 8.8mpg), the rest of the team will get more comfortable with him at point.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 23, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking about guys who were open.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 23, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt he's the best distributor on the team
But Sergio’s defense consists of backpeddling towards the paint. He doesn’t seem to know how to stop the ball at all.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I look at Sergio as an SAT question
Rebounding is to assists as: Brockman is to Sergio
I am not all that disappointed with Sergio – he is a bit of a loco pistolero but defensively he tries to place himself in the position to run the offense rather than stopping the ball. I truly don’t find him all that less effective than Beno. Beno has been good on offense – he forces the ball into clogged passing lanes too much, but without his offense it would be JT and Noce as the only primary options (with Evans out). Scary. Sergio is limited in what he does but is very good at those limited skills thus the Brockman comparison.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 22, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
He stays in front and if they are playing zone that really can work. A small ball line up with him running the offense and a zone defense would be pretty potent.
I would like to see Sergio shoot more mid range jumpers because Ziller is right on target in that Beno seems to be the only real serious one to put those up, BUT it may that Sergio can do that as well… Just not sure yet.
I do think Beno is playing better D than Sergio, but not by huge amounts. I just think that Sergio brings a tremendous passing ability and that can make everybody immediately better.
by MustangMBS on Nov 22, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really have to agree with bte
Beno has never and will never be more than a 5+ assist guy. With Tyreke & Martin, having another shooting PG, is like having a 3rd eye, it’s nice if you lose one, but it isn’t going to make you see better.
We need to add a low post presence to our offense. Having a PG who can get the ball into the bigs, is more important than having a backup guard who can give you points in limited minutes. And, with Martin back, Beno will see limited minutes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how about: Brockman is to Sergio
as Mancakes are to Tapas
by betweentheeyes on Nov 22, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sergio was a - 10 in 11 minutes last night
They torched him on defense plain and simple. If you want to trade 2’s for 3’s – OK.
He does stay in front of his man – 10 feet in front of him, doesn’t stop the ball, cut off passing lanes or get back effectively on defense.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing like altering the facts
Houston was 3 for 18 from 3pt range. Budinger, Battier, and Ariza made all 3 and took 15 of the 18. And, I don’t remember Sergio covering any of thos players. Which makes it hard for me to take your other criticism of Sergio’s game, seriously.
Oh, and by the way, how well did Tyreke & Beno do in defending Kidd & Terry, when they were bearing 3’s in the Dallas game.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In Dallas, they were doubling on Dirk
and leaving Kidd open in a ‘pick your poisen’ choice. I’ll look at the tape in Sergio’s minutes last night, but he simply does not stay close to his man or stop the ball – at all.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dallas had 44 pts in the paint in the first half
please tell me which King did stop the ball.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No perimeter shots by guys Beno was guarding :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LTTG
Use 82games.com for those types of stats.
So far when Sergio has been on the court, opponent field goal percentage was about 3% higher than when he was off the court. With Beno, its about 2 less than when he’s off the court, so Beno is a better defender, and the stats can show it.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Nov 22, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Side note
Only Sergio, Noc, Donte, Speed, May (tied for the 2nd worst with 8% more FG% when he’s on the court), Brockman (Also 8%), and the worst, Desmond Mason. When Mason was on the court this year, teams had an effective FG% of 61.4%. So much for him being a good defender.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Nov 22, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He might be good individually, but not on team defense.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Nov 22, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the reference - I'll take a look
More than that, I can see that Sergio hardly ever actually makes his man pass or affects thier shot.
I feel like I’m in the ‘Beno for All-Star’ club or something – which I’m not. But Sergio is better over-all? I just don’t think on most nights its even close. They have to defend Beno.
Just curious, how does our shooting % change?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What is 82games going to show vs Dallas?
You should look at the shot chart of individual players on ESPN lttg. They actually show what you’re looking for, but it will take some time I promise you.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See - thats where I'm with PW
CC may think we need to cement some line-up but I don’t. Outside of a few key guys – go with who matches up the best, is playing the best on a given night. We have a lot of role players, make them earn thier roles.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the team we have right now.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree lttg
I wholeheartedly agree.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting but inconclusive numbers
Those percentages don’t take into consideration who was on the floor with Beno vs Sergio. Or, does it take into consideration that Beno plays 30+ mpg and Sergio 9 mpg.
Beno plays with the starters, Sergio replaces Tyreke, and that alone should account for the difference in pts allowed.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 23, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my god
How dare Jason Kidd or Jason Terry make 3’s? I mean, how dare they! They don’t make 3’s at a high rate or anything against anybody else!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A debate easily solved
Beno needs to contract the flu. Then Sergio gets a start by default and either goes buck or gets crushed. Or…maybe he does a little of both and the debate continues.
by BrooklynFan on Nov 23, 2009 6:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as you've brought it up
In saying
There have been those that have questioned some of his in-game decisions
Was PW fooled into thinking that May & Mason could start? Mason gets major minute and then is off the team. And, May starts and then ends up with a DNP, even against teams where his height wasn’t a disadvantage, and his size might have been an advantage. Was this a misjudgement of talent on PW’s part. Or, did he put to much emphisis on defense.
Or, did Thomas, Donte, & Omri just start to show more once the regular season started?
If it was an error in judgement, at least he was quick to correct his mistakes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 2:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a gimmick to make a point that players who do certain things with certain players are what's necessary to get the minutes
Mason gets a lot of crap for how he shot (rightfully so), but he was also important in regards to ball movement. But, he simply wasn’t as capable of scoring the ball like the Kings needed him to.
As far as May? I think Hawes played his way into the starting role, but offensively has not shown why. Defensively he’s the best big the Kings have on the court consistently (Kenny Thomas is obviously a better post defender).
I think the real question is can Spencer & Tyreke’s offensive games ever mesh because right now they are clearly not. Last night wasn’t an accident; it happened because Tyreke wasn’t playing.
I want to see how PW solves that before I throw him under the bus for rotations.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hawes did take 6 more shots than his season average of 10
Although I doubt that Tyreke’s absence was the reason, Spencer started to hit his 3’s. But, with Tyrekes drive type of offense, and the need for Spencer to clear out of the paint to make room, maybe Tyreke is having an effect on Spencer’s game.
Maybe Spencer did play his way into the starting lineup. But, how did May play his way completely our to the rotation, altogether?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know don't care
I never thought he would have much of an impact, and I don’t care the Kings signed him. I’d rather see Kenny Thomas get rotation time for a team that badly needs post defense and rebounding.
Those are not Sean May’s strengths.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JT > Spencer > Kenny > Brockman > May
If Brockman can’t get any burn, and I’d like to see him get 4-5 minutes a game, how can you make a case for May to play much? That said, I’d lie to see some minutes and a role for all five, even if its only spot minutes for Brockman and May and not every game.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't making a case for May
I was implying that Pookey was wrong about Hawes uping his game and taking the starting job for May. Because if that was the case, May would still be the backup center, and not the 12th player on the end of the bench.
And, what I was really implying was the PW’s talent assessment is really questionable. Because I don’t believe in 10 regular season games, Mason could go from starter to off the team, May could play himself from starter to bench warmer, & Donte & Omri from players that have to find their niche, to players getting major minutes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hawes DID up his game
Now May fell out of the rotation afterwards because he played poorly,and because Kenny Thomas out played him. Don’t twist what I say to make your point in the view you want it to be seen HT.
That being said, arguing that PW’s talent assessment is questionable is a bit of fantasy on your part. You are bitching just to bitch. Or, that’s my opinion anyway. Reality or not, I feel your criticisms are greatly unfounded.
As far as Omri, he has gotten consistent minutes in the rotation since pre-season. Why is that so surprising?
Donte got his chance at Utah, and has made the most of it since. I really don’t understand how Donte is a benchwarmer, but Sean May isn’t? May isn’t as important to this team defensively as Donte is, and quite frankly, he isn’t as effective or important offensively either.
Mason was a mistake. But, it’s not PW’s mistake alone even if he pushed for the Kings to take the risk on Mason. Ultimately, Geoff Petrie and the basketball staff signed off on this as well. Whether Ime Udoka works out as well as he did during the first week, I do not know. I do know that Mason was not the player the Kings needed. I don’t mind the Kings taking a roll of the dice on Udoka. It’s not exactly like the Kings are playoff contenders.
Was PW fooled into thinking that May & Mason could start? Mason gets major minute and then is off the team. And, May starts and then ends up with a DNP, even against teams where his height wasn’t a disadvantage, and his size might have been an advantage. Was this a misjudgement of talent on PW’s part. Or, did he put to much emphisis on defense.
I doubt PW is fooled by anything that goes on during the game. So what about Mason? Let it go if it’s not that big of a deal. Who cares if May gets DNP’s? Nobody else has consistently brought up May or Mason as much as you HT. Which is not necessarily saying that you’re wrong or everyone else is right, either.
“Was this a misjudgement of talent on PW’s part. Or, did he put to much emphisis on defense.” Oh yes, PW absolutely misjudged talent all along the way. How dare he play the starting C on this team 35 mins a game while ignoring Sean May, but also playing Kenny Thomas, a better post defender and rebounder than any other player on the Kings roster, a significant amount of minutes? What is he thinking trying to help improve the roster defensively by playing defensive players? I mean how dare he not play the 7SOL style that is so popular these days.
< / spat >
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 6:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Whether you agree with me or not
I think that you are wrong when you wrote
As far as May? I think Hawes played his way into the starting role, but offensively has not shown why
I believe PW and take him at his word when he said that he was bringing Spencer off the bench because we didn’t have enough size, and he felt he needed to have either Spencer of JT on the court at all times. May never beat Spencer out of the starting job and Spencer didn’t lose it. The fact that May is playing behind Thomas should be proof of that.
Omri never got consistent minutes playing behind Mason & Noc. And, Donte got no minutes early in the season. PW actually said that Donte had to make a nitch for himself as a defensive stopper to get playing time. Which to me means that PW hadn’t recognized Donte’s offensive ability or his already improved defensive skills. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe your right, that this was some type of gimmick on PW’s part to get Donte’s attention.
I might be the biggest cynic when it comes to PW. He’s only led the team for 12 games and I’m not ready to give him the Keys to the City yet. The team has a good attitude and improved rebounding, but not a lot has changed that can’t be attributed to getting 2 good draft picks, and JT improving his game.
Whether you agree with me or not is your prerogative. I hope you’ll grant me the right not to have to drink the coolaid just yet.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a note
but Donte’s defense has been pretty good lately. Add rebounding and passing when he should – . . . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't care whether you agree with me or not truthfully
Don’t hand anybody the keys to the city; that’s the city managers job right? I don’t care if you want to criticize or anybody or anything, but when you do expect that I will heartily disagree with you when I feel you’re off. Such as this. And, I don’t care what kool-aid you drink.
That being said, you might be the only person who believes that PW wanted more size off the bench, and perhaps he did. But, it was clear that May wasn’t working and changed his mind. If that’s the case, good! Coaches have to change things and adapt on the fly, That’s part of the job description.
As far as the changes mostly being attributed to 2 draft picks, I don’t disagree. Talent on the court means more than talent on the sidelines, but I don’t think anybody here is disputing that. I think people generally disagree with you that PW doesn’t have a pulse for this team. If anything, I think PW has overwhelmingly shown that his pulse of this team is a major strength.
I think Donte playing himself into the rotation is a far better development than PW playing Donte because he has talent. I’d always have the former than the latter. The former is what’s happening with rookies this season, and the latter is what happened with young players last season.
That’s all I got.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its really hard for me
to kill a coach for trying lots of different things in the first dozen games of a season when its his first year with the team, the team won 17 games the previous season and anyone who might be any good on the roster is ridiculously young and has proved nothing in the NBA (or is injured).
He tried May for a while, he tried Mason, May’s been DNP-CD for a while now, K9 is getting minutes, Beno this, Sergio that, honestly who gives a rat’s ass? None of the players I mentioned mean anything to the Kings, except maybe Beno.
May and Sergio are call options, you sign (or trade) for them, they make no money, and if they put it all together all of a sudden you might have something worth keeping. One way or another, they are zero risk options essentially. May was given his chance right away, and he was terrible. If he’s really, really lucky, he’ll get another legit chance. Sergio hasn’t had his big chance yet. Maybe he will, of maybe PW just thinks he’s hopeless. One way or another, Sergio and May have to prove they deserve NBA jobs, and so far its looking like our options are going to expire worthless on both.
HighTops, you are working way too hard at this. The guys that matter are Tyreke, Kevin, JT, Spencer, Garcia, maybe Casspi/Dé3 and Noc/Beno because of their contracts. Everyone else is just roster filler. This entire season is about the development of the guys I listed, if PW is doing a bad job with one of them then let’s bitch up a storm about it. So far, I don’t have much to complain about.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 22, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
4-3 with a cold slap of reality
rec’d
by betweentheeyes on Nov 22, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Said far better than I ever wish I could say it
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This never was about the players
After 12 games, I am not willing to credit the entire performance of the team to the coach. Neither the good or the bad. So, how do I judge the coaches performance too date. Or, am I not allowed too. Can I only make comments regarding players because they produce stats.
So, if it is allowed to critique the coach, How do I do it? Based on his ball handling, his shooting percentage, his defense? I questioned his discision making, what other choice do I have other than ignore him altogether. I saw things that I wouldn’t have done, and questioned his choices, so I guess that makes me a troll.
Absolutely he did need to experiment with rotations. My only criticism was his choice of playing defensive specialist late in close games. Because I feel that the problems on defense aren’t individual problems as much as team defense problems. I question the lack of PT for some players.
Considering that the choice of a new coach was only second in importance to choicing Tyreke with the first pick, I don’t see my questions as being out of line or unimportant.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 23, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course I think the coach is fair game for discussion
but you’re right, he has no “stats” to be measured by other than team wins and losses. If you limit the discussion to that stat (which I am not advocating), PW I think has exceeded reasonable expectations.
If you want to move beyond wins-losses, then we need to recognize a coach’s performance is a deriviative of the teams performance and growth. But I think the crucial part of the exercise is different coaches will be measured using different criteria. For Stan Van Gundy this year, essentially his entire evaluation should be based on if they win it all or not.
The crux of my opinion is, you are measuring the wrong thing when you evaluate PW. The most appropriate way to measure his success is how much better are the players that matter, and are they growing over the course of the season. Sure, someday his end of the 4th quarter substitutions may matter a lot, or having a fixed rotation vs. playing the hot hand, etc. But those criteria are tiny this year when measured against the growth of Evans/JT/Hawes/etc.
So you seem to very invested in evaluating something that I think isn’t really important right now, and most importantly PW isn’t worrying about. It is within your rights to do so, of course. One way or another, hopefully the discussion is fun.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 23, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The situation is fluid
Really only JT and Tyreke and Beno now with Martin out have definitely staked out a claim to major minutes. Maybe Nocioni as well, although he was a little too trigger-happy last night for my taste. Greene has shown he deserves minutes, as has Casspi, as Udoka had done before recently.
If I have any criticism of Westphal, and it’s not something I always see, it’s that he sometimes fails to play a winning hand long enough. Last night might have been one of those nights.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your 2nd paragraph a lot CC
That would be the one thing I’m worried about more than anything else. Especially with someone like Donte or Omri playing well.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are two guys I have in mind
Because they are streaking and can be streaky good.
There’s nothing worse than having a couple guys who were feeling it riding pine while the team’s momentum suddenly goes south.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No there isn't
I think it’s a pretty minor criticism, but I do think it has merit. I want to see how this plays out over a larger sample size before I really get after PW for little things though.
When the talent of this team is 50 games won worthy, than I will be far more concerned about those little things that are so critically important.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's tricky
because the talent level is pretty close at some roster spots, particularly SG-SF, and sometimes you’ve got to put a guy on the floor to get some burn. The bigs are also not that different, but they give you different things. But the time to do that is in the second quarter, not the second half.
Eventually, though, I think you need to make some decisions and give some guys a fairly set number of minutes and play them with the guys they seem to work well with. You know, actual rotations. It may be a little too early for that, and naturally injuries also screw up the best-laid plans.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep I think the injuries and still figuring out which guys can do what where is making this seem far more scrambling than I think PW would prefer.
But, at the same time are you really unhappy that Donte got the start and played 24 mins given where he was opening night?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, due to the injuries
We’re getting to see guys play that probably would have been stuck to the end of the bench, and frankly I doubt if our record would have been any better if we had a full roster. So it is a season of revelations that gives the Kings brass more options but also some difficult choices to make.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 22, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also very true.
More options are hardly as bad of a thing as opposed to a negative. That is one area where the Kings having a ton of depth (at the 2/3) has really held this team over.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A great honest summary of the season/ personnel to date
rec’d
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 2:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was as down as anyone
But no doubt
Beno Udrih – The goods: 17 pts. and 5 assists per game as a starter. The best (only?) mid-range shooter on the team.
The not-so-goods: Non-existent. This is the best ball that Udrih has played in his life.
Give the guy his props. He’s been playing his ass off.
On Donte’: I’m just thrilled he’s managed to put most of the pieces of his game together. A little more work on his head and both his and the team’s future is bright. As TZ says, he’s GOT to get some rebounds. You want to ‘take over’ kid? Get some boards first. Its pretty critical he does to offer a counter threat inside (at least some of the time) for JT. The team needs it Donte’.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 3:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I will take the Stock comparison too far: The Sacramento Kings are a mutual fund
Paul Westphal is the fund manager. He inherited a clunker fund and is limited as to what he can buy and sell of his overall bond, equity and cash positions. This is a small cap value fund showing growth.
Overall, he has increased the value of his holdings. He has maximized some new acquistions, he has shored up a few failing positions by increasing their value. He is leveraging some unknowns and it has been working out. Due to earlier conditions he tried some hedge but eventually placed those stocks to inactive. Overall, he is ahead of predictions but still performing under the overall market average. Recommendations: moderate buy with expectation to hold for one or more years to capture the most growth.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 22, 2009 5:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
oh and past performance is not indicative of future results
geez, I left out good lines about emerging markets and future investment opportunities. I am beginning to understand my own portfolio better… sigh, I won’t be buying any NBA teams just yet.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 22, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I work in mutual funds
Come on bte, it’s Sunday man…
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
by edm7 on Nov 22, 2009 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bite on this
The team is currently enduring a pullback from new highs. Astute traders are waiting for a fresh breakout.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 23, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"...May is taller lying down than Brockman standing up"
That line is absolutely hilarious, section214!
put me in, Coach
by LaBradford on Nov 22, 2009 5:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
When you add up all the no so goods Section
they really didn’t add up to much with the exception of Spencer Hawes. Beno, who would have thought it but I don’t think he should be traded. He and ’Reke play really well together, why break it up when we are only 15% of the way through the season. I said after last season and before training camp that if Beno kept playing the did way he during the last month of the 08-09 season that it was going to be difficult for the rook to get playing time.
I had no way of knowing at the time that it wasn’t an either/or proposition. With both Beno and ‘Reke neither playing the 1 or 2 guard positions exactly but both playing a kind of a 1.5 position it doesn’t make any sense to me to break them up now. Especially if ’Reke can guard the opposing 1 for the size mismatch or can guard the 2 if we need the size. For whatever reason, it clearly energizes Beno playing alongside ’Reke. I want to keep Noc for as long as we can or until trading him creates a clear upgrade for the team.
Prior to this season, whether here at StR or at any other site where Donté’s name came up I argued that he should be sent to Reno as early as possible for as long as possible. While my mea cupolas are behind me, Donté continues to astound. Certainly with his size he should be rebounding at a much better rate but the mere fact that he is playing well and consistently contributing is enough for me at this point. Having said that, until he has raised his game to a consistently higher level, any game where é is the leading scorer is probably not a good game for the Kings.
One thing I have learned this season with regard to Beno’s contract. If Zach Randolf and Stephen Jackson’s contracts can be moved, so can Beno’s.
With regard to Kevin, it’s hard to see how how he can continue to play the way he does without continuing to get injured. My guess is that if anybody an figure this out ,Westphal can. If Paul Westphal can help Donté resurrect his career then in my view he is capable of almost anything short of walking on water.
Bom-ri! What can you say. Geoff Petrie strikes gold again later in the first round. Maybe the Euroleague is a better training ground than the NCAA.
At the beginning of the season I had zero expectations for Sean May and he exceeded them a little bit. Now, well as they say, “you can’t teach height”. Barring injury I don’t see him getting much burn and doing much other than giving the other bigs a chance to catch their breath. I’d rather see Cake on the floor.
Sergio. I’m probably wrong but I’ve never seen Sergio to be anything other than a free player in a position that was a position of need at the beginning of the draft. If he has a break out year we can’t afford to re-sign him, maybe he helps as trade filler. He is super quick and an effective distributor but his lack of defense is as damaging as Mason’s lack of offensive production was. Anyone who thinks his defense is as good as Beno’s right now is watching different games then I am.
‘Reke scares me. I worry about him getting hurt all the time. There are times during games where I catch myself holding my breath because he is doing things I’ve never seen another King’s player do before. There have been a few times when he has done things that I don’t think I’ve seen any basketball player do before and it’s at those times in my homer heart of hearts that I allow myself to think that the Sacramento Kings have drafted their first super star.
JT has improved more over the summer than I thought possible. I disagree slightly about the fouls. Last night he reverted to the JT of old but during our winning streak he had far fewer reach in, touch fouls. Personally, I believe he is playing d with more discipline and more times than not is ending the first half with 1 or 2 fouls. When it comes to JT all I can say is this. I heart JT……………….big time!
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
by Bluejohn on Nov 22, 2009 6:01 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Amen brother
[Sergio] his lack of defense is as damaging as Mason’s lack of offensive production was. Anyone who thinks his defense is as good as Beno’s right now is watching different games then I am.
I don’t know what they’re seeing. I’m not a big stat guy, but as I said above a -10 in 11 minutes makes all your ball skills meaningless if they’re going right through you and doubling down on any positives.
He has NO defensive skills with no excuse for it that I can see. With his speed and footwork he should be able to stay in front and stay close – he does neither. He’s never stopped the ball that I rememeber and he’s so far off his man he doesn’t even have a chance of cutting off any passing lanes.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am one of the Beno bashers - on defense.
Anyone who thinks his defense is as good as Beno’s right now is watching different games then I am.
I am half glassing the opposite way – I think they both play poor defense, Beno goes to his spots a littlle quicker perhaps, but neither plays man-to-man worth a darn. Beno on offense is no contest. He has been scoring the ball impressively.
I think that with Tyreke as a 1.5 of sorts and Beno a 1.5 of sorts it is a different game out there with Sergio who is a 1.0 not even a 1.1 The thing is, and read me through before you throw up your hands – Steve Nash, Jason Williams, Brandon Jennings, Ricky Rubio, DJ Augustin, Mike Conley Jr are all basic 1.0 pure point guards.Problem is, Steve Nash is one of the all-time best shooters the game has ever seen, Sergio can only oop to the hoop, can ’t shoot fish in a barrel. I am not reasonably comparing Sergio to Nash – however, if the Kings had that type of PG, and they almost did, what kind of mess would they have now with Beno as the 1.5? Two bad defenders. It is a predicament that the Kings had last night against the Rockets.
When the backcourt does not stop the ball, especially dribble penetration, JT and Hawes revert back to the fouling machines they were last year.The Kings need a different defensive strategy when Evans is out of the game. Beno is a draino not a stopper.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 22, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See Aykis above
We’re 5% better on defense with Beno vs Sergio. Its a small sample but I see Beno staying close to his man, fighting through screens and challenging shots this year. Good funamentals – whatever you think of the actual defensive talent.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know what they're seeing
Sergio is a scrappy defensive player, and he’s trying his damnedest during the game to get there and harass the players. He sticks his hands wherever he can to get to the ball, and he’s running after everybody he thinks he should. He’s just not good – he’s not an NBA level defender, and it’s partly athleticism, part coordination and part knowledge and experience.
Even though I say that, I am firmly in the “play Sergio” camp. I agree he is a gaping hole on defense, but I love to see the kid play. He’s always trying his hardest, and every play is an alley-oop threat. Sergio and Greene make for an electrifying tandem, and if Sergio ever learns to shoot, he can create some obliterating pick-and-roll matchups.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
by iashwash on Nov 22, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any 'scrappy' at All in Sergio
I see that with beno though. I see him battling through screens, Sergio I see looking active, but not even being within wiffing distance of his man – backpeddling all the way to the bucket.
I do admire Sergio’s ball handling/passing skills, I just don’t know if its worth it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I meant by scrappy
He “looks active” but all that activity isn’t actually accomplishing anything. He tries, he’s just not good.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
by iashwash on Nov 23, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree for the most part. I heart JT big time too!!! On the other hand...
Bom-ri! What can you say. Geoff Petrie strikes gold again later in the first round. Maybe the Euroleague is a better training ground than the NCAA.
Ehh. The best that Euroleague has to offer is a very small group while the NCAA’s top echelon of players goes pretty deep. Half of the top ten in this year’s draft are pretty good contributors to their respective NBA teams. The players that aren’t contributing right now are probably injured, named Hasheem, or they’re from Europe and STILL playing in Europe. Nine of the top ten guys are from NCAA colleges and it’s a safe bet that in 3 years, the best players from this draft are not from Europe.
About Kevin – I totally agree with your comment about his dangerous style of play. Hopefully he can ‘tweak’ his game so that he can last longer in this league and still be an elite scorer.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
by JETisKing on Nov 22, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's always going to be more players from the NCAA than Europe
Simply because there is a lot more college players than there are pro European players. Therefore the pool is smaller, and thus not as significant.
But, if the NBA succeeds in getting an age limit, you’re going to see more players go to the NBDL, and Europe to play before heading to the NBA.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This
But, if the NBA succeeds in getting an age limit, you’re going to see more players go to the NBDL, and Europe to play before heading to the NBA.
Is just fine by me. I’d like these guys to have some games, some adversity, some experience under thier belts before getting paid millions so I can watch them learn basic Bball fundamentals.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 22, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Brandon Jennings is really sort of making the NCAA myth about development moot right now.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 9:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Moses Malone
Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett should have made that moot long ago.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Nov 22, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks to the flood of HS'ers that came after them
That sort of precipitated the age rule. It’s a good thing though in the long run.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we had this discussion a ways back
Wasn’t the long-term rate of successful high school entrants similar to the rate of college entrants as a whole? I coulda swore they were pretty similar (in an unscientific sampling).
by otis29 on Nov 23, 2009 6:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those were exceptional players
who would come as soon as they’re eligible anyway. A real system would allow teams to bide their time a bit more for the rest.
(no, i don’t know how you sort it out but I think there’s a way)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 23, 2009 8:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The chances of getting a star has been higher from an early entrant into the draft
Or from a HS kid, than from a player staying 4 years in school. (Brandon Roy is the exception not the rule.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 23, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about that.
There are a lot of pro basketball teams out there in Europe.
But that being said I’m speaking about European players, playing in Euroleagues.
Not only that but the better Euroleague teams are usually better than their competition because the have American players from American universities (NCAA).
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
by JETisKing on Nov 23, 2009 7:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I don’t think Europe will be the route a lot of kids take. I think the NBDL will be a good way for these kids to get some seasoning before heading to the NBA.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 23, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know what they say
You can’t win it in April, but you can probably lose it.
I feel its safe to say the Kings definately didn’t lose it. All things considered, it was a solid “month” for the Kings.
"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"
by mvhsbball on Nov 22, 2009 7:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Oh come on...say it...SAY IT!!!
I’m not saying that Tyreke will become our Brandon Roy, but I am saying that the possibility of that happening at least exists.
I say he does become our Brandon Roy, our D-Wade, our LeBron, or our Durant. Scratch that. He’ll become our TYREKE EVANS. The kid is a solid star and will be a super star in a few seasons. Brandon Roy didn’t become B-Roy overnight but you saw the potential in his first year. I totally see the same potential for stardom in ‘Reke right now. I’d hate to set those expectations for him but he’s already dominating games at times, while his peers (minus Brandon Jennings) are struggling to find their role.
All I wanted at the beginning of the season was for the last two minutes of the game to matter. To this point, my wish has been more than granted.
Yes. We have certainly gotten all that and then some. I really can’t wait for this squad to be 100% healthy. Good times and great wins are ahead. Go Kings.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
by JETisKing on Nov 22, 2009 9:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Once Thompson masters the art of defending with his feet, the foul trouble should abate.
Sweep. The. Leg.
by clicc916 on Nov 23, 2009 8:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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