Future Pillars of the Franchise
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 23, 2009 7:54 AM PST
20 comments
The guys that matter are Tyreke, Kevin, JT, Spencer, Garcia, maybe Casspi/Dé3 and Noc/Beno because of their contracts.
That’s what ForThree said in a very effective post in the Taking Stock thread, and I thought I’d start a discussion, perhaps premature but inevitable, on who fits where when our injured players return and we are at full strength.
There’s lots of versatility in the group ForThree isolates as the future pillars of the franchise:
* PGs: Tyreke, Beno, Garcia in a pinch.
* SGs: Tyreke, Kevin, Garcia, Casspi in a pinch.
* SFs: Nocioni, Casspi, Greene, Garcia, Kevin in a pinch.
* PFs: JT, Spencer, Nocioni, Greene.
* C: Spencer, JT.
I really think we need to find a way to get Casspi and Greene into the starting lineup eventually. I think Donte is going to have to learn to emerge as a power forward.
I really don't see minutes for Garcia at the 3 when he comes back and I frankly think he will be battling Beno for minutes when everyone is healthy. It wouldn't surprise me to see Beno and Tyreke continue to start as guards with Kevin as supersub and quick energy off the bench and Garcia playing maybe 10-20 minutes a game.
Nocioni is a quandary, and his contract probably makes him the one to go at some point. But until that point you still have to pencil him as the starter, particularly when the other team has a go-to scorer at the 3 or 4 that he matches up with well. Casspi and Donte still make youthful mistakes, but they also bring a nice set of skills into the game, particularly their ability to hit the three ball, which I’d like to see as a bigger part of our offense. We’re getting stripped a lot because of our emphasis on taking the ball to the cup, and I hope we evolve to more of the inside-out, quick around-the-horn passing game which we have used effectively at times this year.
That leaves JT and Spencer to man the big men positions with plenty of reserves. I’d really like to see us stick with the current crew and try to strengthen this area through the draft rather than taking on any huge contracts via trade unless a deal comes down that both makes us a better team and makes financial sense. Nothing that has been thrown out so far meets those two criteria in my eyes.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Kevin Martin is not going to play off the bench.
He may come off the bench for a game or two to get into the swing of things. Donte may be the small forward of the future, but he does not defend opposing 4 players very well.
by mayfieldcol on Nov 23, 2009 8:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the first on Kevin
But think CC is right that Donte’ becomes more of a ‘stretch’ 4 and a part time 3 (is that the same thing? I think it might be). Big minutes – but a sub.
Casspi is the SF of the future as of today.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 23, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on everything
Martin is the perfect fit with Tyreke. And, you don’t play your leading scorer who makes $11M, off the bench.
I like your assessment of Donte, as of now. He’s 21 and 30lbs lighter than JT. Two more years in the weight room, and he could end up being our best PF. It will be interesting to see his development this year. I’m not worried about his rebounding, because he’s being asked to revamp his entire game and isn’t getting consistent minutes at eirther the 3 or the 4. I think there are enough minutes for Noc, Donte, & Omri between the SF & PF positions.
We need a better low post game, and that isn’t the sole responsibility of the bigs. The guards need to be able to get them the ball, where they have the best chance to score. So, if Tyreke and Beno can’t improve their entry passing, it would be better to have a playmaking PG who can.
If we keep Beno, Cisco & Sergio are expendable. If we keep Cisco, then Noc & Beno are expendable. Brockman, Udoka, Sergio, & May don’t have contracts for next season, But, with only 9 guaranteed contracts for next season, one or two might make it depending on our draft picks. And, it’s way too early in the season to say which ones go, although some people might want to point to May right now.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 23, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
I’m not worried about his rebounding, because he’s being asked to revamp his entire game and isn’t getting consistent minutes at eirther the 3 or the 4.
But it may be a little more important to Westphal, and that may be one of the reasons why Casspi got more playing time against the Rockets than Donte. Casspi had eight rebounds against Houston, while Donte had only one in almost 28 minutes.
I remember one play where Landry beat JT but JT recovered and forced a miss to the other side of the bucket, where Donte was in position to get the board. But he was a little slow to the ball, and Landry got it and used the basket to seal off JT and score.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 23, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Donte
I think the other negative on Donte is he does not rebound very well. That alone probably puts Casspi up a notch if you have to choose between the two, because Casspi is a much better rebounder. In fact, only Udoka has a better rebounding rate per minute than Casspi among our non-bigs.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 23, 2009 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure about your timeframe
are you asking what happens 5 games after everyone is healthy (not counting who may or may not start their first game back or whatever)?
or
are you asking more about long-term?
In the short run, when everyone is healthy, let’s see…
The backcourt is solid: Tyreke/Kevin/Cisco/Beno are going to devour all of the backcourt minutes with the occasional Sergio sighting if he does something to merit it between now and then.
Small Forward is Casspi/Donté up to the minutes they have earned (probably not 30 combined by then though) with Nocioni starting and Cisco filling in. If Casspi or Donté really have proven they need to start by then, GP will be working a lot harder to move Noc or Cisco.
Our bigs are still a mess. We have two guys that should play at all, unless May does something to merit another chance. We’re at the “play Spencer and JT as much time as we can and let Noc get some time at PF when possible” stage.
To answer the longer term questions, I need more time to form an opinion.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 23, 2009 9:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
As Pookey has pointed out, Cisco is a BYC until next summer
and would be very hard to move. Plus his return is targeted to very close to the trade deadline, which would give teams very little time to see how he has recovered.
The most likely player moves this year, would be Noc and/or Beno. With Sergio, Brockman & Udoka as fillers. And, with Cisco, Omri, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, Donte available to back up Martin, Beno might be our best trade option this year. His contract is reasonable, he’s playing well , and PG’s are a valueable commodity. It will really depend on how dedicated GP is about having Tyreke play PG.
The only way I see GP trading Beno, is if he can use him to get a valueable center. My gut says we stand pat, see who we get in the draft, and make our player moves next summer.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 23, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BYC = Beautiful, Youthful Chicano.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Nov 23, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
1 Evans
2 Martin
3 Casspi
4 Greene
5 Thompson
Greene is the poor man’s version of Josh Smith when he wouldn’t stop shooting those threes he couldn’t make. Once he stops that, I think he’ll be more than a viable 4.
by sdfd on Nov 24, 2009 6:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This franchise will rise or fall based on two players:
1) Tyreke Evans
2) Jason Thompson
They are the franchise right now, the untouchables. They are the youth and the future.
(I exclude Martin, because you can’t count on him to play a majority of the season).
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on Nov 25, 2009 11:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
you don’t think that’s an optimistic outlook?
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on Nov 25, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fun fact
Kevin has played in 79% of his games from his 2nd year on (the first year doesn’t count because he got dnp-cd’s.
If Tyreke misses tonight, he’ll have played in 85% of games in his NBA career.
Pretty close, eh?
Don’t you love small sample statistics?
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 25, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kevin's percentage is too low.
I like the guy, but he misses too many games. Tyreke is somewhat irrelevant in this discussion, but I do not see a perspective where Kevin Martin is not disappointing because of he does not show up. The same can be said of Gilbert Arenas.
by mayfieldcol on Nov 25, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just for perspective
Arenas’ career. He started 30 of his first 47 games before getting injured. So:
Career he’s played 446 out of 669 games = 66.7%
Dwyane Wade?
408 out of 506 = 80.6%
Injuries happen. Yes they suck, but just because a player had a groin injury and a severely sprained ankle and a broken wrist, it doesn’t mean he’ll have injuries in the future. He might, but Wade played 51, 51 and then played 79 last season. So Kevin Played 61, 51 and will likely be in the 50s this season. That doesn’t mean he won’t play 70+ for the rest of his career.
Check Grant Hill for perspective. Dude played: 4, 14, 29, 67, 21, 65 and has played 70, 82 and every game this year.
Bottom line is: Shit Happens.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 26, 2009 7:52 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Great stuff kfan
This should be an automatic reply to “Kevin is soft” posts
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
by edm7 on Nov 26, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Should be
But it won’t.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
by pookeyguru on Nov 28, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
should add
that Kevin’s injuries are in no way comparable to a player like Arenas. Knee injuries and micro-fracture surgeries are not comparable to sprained ankles and hairline wrist fractures. To make that comparison is just stupid.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 28, 2009 5:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree Kfan
Injuries are injuries. Whether it is recurrent bouts of malaria, migraine headaches, or Joe Theisman/Shaun Livingstone leg crushes.
If a player is one who misses games, he isn’t playing. Durability is defined by games played. Dwyane Wade, Amar’e Stoudamire, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Grant Hill all returned from major time out to be more and more reliable - until they aren’t.
Kevin Martin may never miss another game in his career. The future is unknown.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 28, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you’ve had 3 knee operations, are your chances of having future knee problems higher or lower? I think they are higher. The knee doesn’t fully heal, and will always be of concern.
Can the same be said of Kevin’s injuries? I don’t think so. They have and will fully heal. That was my point.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 28, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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