Kings Finish Winless Road Trip, Lose 116-105 in Memphis
by Tom Ziller on Nov 24, 2009 1:20 AM PST
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PrintNo moral victory in losing at Memphis, by double digits, in a game the Kings were never in from about the fourth quarter on. The team played an unfocused, sloppy game, refusing to put together even two-minute stretches on vibrant basketball. If the Kings play one quarter of ball the way they did in Dallas and Houston, it's a win. But they didn't, and that's four straight losses, and a 5-8 record.
Not to make an excuse -- there are no excuses for 21 turnovers against a team as defensively lethargic as the Grizzlies -- but you wouldn't look like a loon if you suggested Scott Foster had the over. Though Jason Thompson was ineffective on offense, his foul trouble killed the team's energy in the first half. He played only 27 minutes due to the fouls, and still had a game-high 10 rebounds. He can destroy Memphis, even though he's had two disappointing games against them this season. He's built to beat teams like this, and being sent to the bench with all those fouls prevented that. (I should note for posterity that Paul Westphal didn't needlessly sit J.T. to protect him -- Thompson was legitimately in foul trouble before Westphal took him.)
Spencer Hawes (4 points on 5 FGAs, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 turnovers in 25 minutes) was rather emblematic of the problems the Kings had. Hawes was called for two brutal three-second violations on offense, in situations where three-second violations was basically indefensible mistakes. Just as with the team as a whole, Hawes would have one good play (a block, a nice backdoor pass to Beno Udrih) and would follow it up with three or four bad possessions.
Tyreke Evans had solid numbers (28/4/4 with five turnovers) but never really had control of the game. Udrih initiated the offense much of the first half, and Evans's gravity ebbed and waned. I think it's reasonable to say he was the most talented player on the floor, but the Kings needed him to take over the game. And he didn't, until the match had been decided. Having a Wade/Roy type player means having a player to live and die by. Evans played so well that the Kings could have lived if he'd taken his proper role. But it didn't happen. He is 20 years old, of course, 13 games into his pro NBA career. There's time for growth.
For the record, Omri Casspi got ejected from this one for ... objecting to Jamaal Tinsley holding onto his arm. Omri's two technical fouls were the first two for any Kings player this season. (And yes, Rasheed Wallace tallied five before any King received one.) It's also worth noting for posterity's sake that Donte Greene -- that Donte Greene, you're thinking of the right one -- fouled out in 19 energetic minutes. Two of those fouls were absolutely absurd by normal NBA standards, but par for this game, which a preseasonesque 54 personal fouls.
Jon Brockman deserved all the minutes he received (14) plus all of Hawes's. Sergio Rodriguez had 16/7 with only one turnover off the bench -- Udrih was ineffective for the first time in a few weeks, and I wouldn't be surprised if Rodriguez is in position to deliver Beno a shorter leash during the coming homestand.
Kevin Martin cannot get back soon enough.
Rudy Gay is the worst good player in the league.
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I love everything about your recap...
except for the sad fact that we lost. Damn it.
There can only be one Noce!
wth Ziller
Don’t you have kids? Why are you up at this hour?
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
also, great summation on Rudy Gay
get some sleep
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
I actually suggested in the game thread
it looked like the refs had the over, joking of course…I think.
Nice job Ziller, as always.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
This game was not fun to watch.
Ugly. Sergio, Brockman, Omri and Reke were the only positives on our side, and of those 4, only Sergio and Brockman were truly consistent.
And I totally agree about Rudy Gay, and its why I don’t want the Kings going after him in free agency.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Kings should have a good game against New York now
I don’t think they have anyone who can stop Tyreke Evans. And Spencer destroyed them last year in the blowout win in New York (our only win against an Eastern Conference team last year).
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Rudy Gay is Donte' Green gone bad
Thats exactly what he has a danger of – and we don’t want him becoming.
(not saying he’s headed down that path – I hope you know what I mean)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
hmmmm - no
I just think Gay’s head is too far gone to take the chance and he wants $10 mil starting next year. Do you want to pay him $10 mil?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
well, yeah
except for the small fact that Rudy Gay has about twice the basketball talent of Donte’ Greene.
At least.
Say what you want about attitude and salary, but Rudy Gay is one serioulys gifted athlete. He has NBA All Star-type talent. Donte’ might not even be in the league in three years.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Evans
I’m as big an Evan’s fan as anybody, but I’m just about sick of watching him go 1 on 4 and either getting his shot blocked or throwing up crap rather than dishing the ball when he obviously has 3 – 4 wide open teammates. His ability to get to the rim should be getting him huge assist numbers and getting guys like Spencer and JT easier shots.
What I saw last night was a lot of one-on-one crap, playground basketball and Evans was the main culprit. This team – especially sans Martin – has to play team ball to have a chance to win. And last night, they did not play with any sort of team concept. Move the ball and trust each other. Enough of the ball pounding and the 1 on 4 nonsense.
p.s. how many one footers is Jason Thompson going to miss this year? Dunk the F-ing ball, dude! Love his hustle and his tenaciousness, but the number of point blanks misses this year is inexcusable for a player of his talent.
You are correct, sir
Evans still needs to learn some PG skills.
JT’s dunks will come with confidence
And a ladder.
He dunks with 2 hands and still gets stuffed. And, he needs a running start to dunk.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Yup
It drives me crazy how many times Evans has got his shot blocked already this year. Its like he is a distant cousin to Lionel Simmons. Then I remember he is 20 years old and only played in thirteen games.
by MichaelMack on Nov 24, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
gettting to the hole
I love his getting to the hole – it’s what’s, eventually, going to make him unstoppable. But, right now, he makes his decision and seems unable to adjust once he puts his head down and decides to go. As you point out, he is 20 years old and has only played 13 games. So, I expect to be frustrated more than once this year. Part of the learning curve. Still, nearly impossible to complain about his play this year, and I suspect that very soon we will see him make adjustments at the baskets.
oh absolutely.
I have to remind myself that he is only a rookie, as his solid fundamentals, maturity, and potential are just fantastic.
7% of his inside shoots and 8% of his outside jumpers are blocked
With 183 FGA’s in 12 games, that averages out to 1.2 shots being blocked per game. The Kings in general are one of the worst 5 teams in the NBA, and are averaging 6.6 shots blocked per game. So, Tyreke is probably average for players on our team that score in close.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
wow, the referees sucked
for giving casspi 2 technical fouls . he didn’t deserve any, especially not the second one in which he got fouled and didnt say anything rude, just disagreed. maybe with casspi it could end different xD
That was a crazy bad call
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
Spence, when can we count on you?
I have been a fan of making a move to shore up the middle for a few weeks now. Several players did not get it done last night, but for most of those players they have consistently brought most nights. So for me, I will give a few of them free passes. But for Spence, the Houston game was one good game in several so-so or even lousy games, and now he lays another pile of crapola.
Petrie, you have an expiring contract, you will have a solid draft pick next year (and I do not necessarily believe it will be a lottery pick), , and perhaps a few other tradeable assests who are hurt (I know we hate to talk about moving Martin or Cisco), make the move.
by noreboundsnorings on Nov 24, 2009 7:39 AM PST reply actions
I don't understand singling out Hawes here (everyone sucked)
but we need another reliable big for games like this.
For now PW needs to get over it and put Brockman in earlier.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
Not everyone sucked
Hawes made the top of the suckage list, that’s for sure.
I guess my point was
that as a Team they sucked. In the end, its all about the team, not individual #s which is why, dispite his individual numbers, TZ gave Tyreke very little credit.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
I'll settle for dropping him from my fantasy team and picking up either Przybilla or (god forbid) Gooden.
There can only be one Noce!
Grizzlies D
There are no excuses for 21 turnovers against a team as defensively lethargic as the Grizzlies.
I’d say you have to give them a little credit. They challenged every pass in the early going and set the tone. The frustrated Kings eventially got impatient and played into their hands.
We needed two Brockmans last night — OK, maybe three. :) I hope we see more of him.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 24, 2009 8:04 AM PST reply actions
Although young, I'm really starting to question the future of Spencer Hawes.
Look – I was VERY excited about getting Hawes. I really thought this kid was a burgeoning Kevin McHale with such an array of polished post moves coming out of college. Add to that his rookie year, where he showed surprising toughness, and I really thought this kid was possibly on a road to being a borderline star player.
Fast forward a couple of years and I honestly think the kid is regressing. He is becoming intolerably soft. He gets shoved right under the basket. He increasingly defends like Peja did – NO body contact at all (matador defense). The number of layups with him in the post last night was unfathomable. I don’t care if he fouls out in 10 minutes. In addition, he should get fines for taking threes. I don’t care if Westphal covers for that stupidity. He just shows no fire. I WISH he had some Casspi in him. I guess my point is that be it center or power forward, if the kid doesn’t start showing something (it is his third year), I’m becoming comfortable with sitting him and going small. Of all the players I’ve been wrong about, Donte Green is showing me something, and I’m fine giving him more minutes – All of Hawes if Spencer doesn’t get it together.
by Hoops Mike on Nov 24, 2009 8:13 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
If Spencer played hard as Omri...
he would average 18 and 10.
Omri made a fantastic play last night of tipping a ball loose, and then beating a small guard down the floor to catch a pass and finish for easy two. Omri consistently is first guy down court in transition, and teammates are looking to him to get easy twos. He has great foot speed and body control in the open court for a player 6’9". With his outside shooting touch, floaters in the lane, consistent aggression, and transition game, I envision Omri as a 18 to 22 point per game scorer in 2 to 3 years.
BTW I expect league to rescind second technical foul. Total BS. The refs should be fined for gross incompetence too.
Omri is quick
and he’s above average in terms of overall athletic ability, even by NBA standards. Hawes is neither.
It’s also true that Omri also plays with more intensity, but even if Hawes did that he still wouldn’t be quick or athletic.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Fantastic Point.
I am consistently impressed with Omri’s athleticism. I dont know how many posters are my age, but he reminds me of Bobby Jones of 76’ers fame with range.
by MichaelMack on Nov 24, 2009 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Bobby Jones!
Sure, I remember Jones. One of the great (if not the greatest) defensive players of his era. In fact, MMack, I remember Jones playing with the Nuggets in the ABA before he went to Philly!
I think he and Omri are very similar in size, and like Jones, Omri seems to play every possession like something is at stake.
Nice call!
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Love the Bobby Jones call. rec'd
Bobby Jones – another former Huskie and former King
Bobby Jones – the best amateur in the history of golf
but it is Bobby Jones, former Tarheel, all-defensive stalwart, and like Omri Casspi 6’-9". Read how Wikipedia describes him: one of the best defensive and most virtuous players of his time. nice history of a talented athlete and the ABA/NBA time. (Bobby Jones liked track and field more – he high jumped 6’8" as a senior but as a junior lost to another high schooler named Bob McAdoo).
MikeMack – thanks for the memory jog.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 24, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
I'm younger than you
But, Bobby Jones. Wow.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Youtube clip
of Bobby Jones for those who are wondering what Mack means.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Spencer is asked to do so much more than any other big on this team
He almost always defends the other team’s #1 post option. He is clearly a better/stronger post player than JT and doesn’t get backed down like JT does (mostly because JT fouls people that are backing him down regularly).
Spencer also is the guy coming to help and try to block shots more often than not.
I just don’t see what you are saying at all. Spencer’s been a disaster on offense through much of this year, but defensively both defending post guys and on the board, he seems to be making steady progress to me.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 24, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
My sentiments exactly 4-3.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I agree, for the most part
There is a different expectation of Hawes. JT is vastly more experienced that Spence is, so its not a shocker that his growth in his second season is greater than Spencer’s. Spencer seems to play solid position defense against bigger centers, but last night he had a difficult time playing help defense. His rebounding is solid, and he already has 3 or 4 20pt games. I know I am sort of damning him with faint praise, but I cant help but think with his size and skill set, that with maturity, experience, and a good coach that he cant become an Andrew Bogut/Marc Gasol/Brooke Lopez kind of player.
by MichaelMack on Nov 24, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
I seriously doubt
Hawes will ever be in the same class as Brook Lopez, mainly because he’s not built the same way. Lopez has much better length (like a 7 and a half foot wingspan or something like that) and he has some pretty serious hops for a guy 260 pounds. He’s overall bigger and somewhat stronger. Plus, he runs the floor really well. Brook Lopez has a legit shot at being an NBA All Star. In fact, 17 pts; 8.8 reb; and 2.7 blocks (!), he’s almost playing at that level right now.
Bogut is maybe a closer comparison, but he’s also stronger than Hawes, which probably has a lot to do with why he’s much better at finishing around the basket. And Bogut is a superior passer. Man, I’d be stoked if Hawes could be as good as Andrew Bogut, but right now our guy has a looong way to go.
Marc Gasol seems to get a lot done with a somewhat limited skill set. He’s bigger than Hawes and is stronger around the rim, but he’s not any more athletic. Gasol is more polished and “in-the-flow”, plus he plays like he has something to prove, but Hawes has the better offensive game, has way better footwork, and is a couple of years younger.
So, OK, I could see Hawes and Marc Gasol basically at the same level in the NBA. Bogut would be a stretch but it’s not impossible. Lopez? I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Spencer Hawes to do what Brook Lopez can do right now.
I’m sure this will incite a few comments of the “Hawes is only 21 years old, who knows how good he’ll be” variety. To which I say: well, yeah, my nephew is only 18 years old, but he’ll never have a 7’6" wingspan, so I don’t give him much hope of ever being as good a rebounder or shot blocker as Brook Lopez.
Well, at least we’re coming down from the “… Hawes could be another Vlade Divac” talk.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
I have defended Hawes as much as anyone
and…yah Brook Lopez is a hell of a good basketball player right now.
The things Hawes has going for him: he’s reasonably athletic, not exceptionally so, but he’s not a horrendous plodder either. He’s got good natural coordination with either hand, an interesting shooting touch from 8-12 feet out for a big guy and he sees the court well. Maybe not Vlade’eque, but well above average.
We’ll see what he develops that into; I agree though its a long road to go. If Spencer works hard, I could really see him having his best years when he was 30-32, well after the peak of most NBA guys, just because of his odd skill set. Again, making the assumption Spencer wants to be good and works hard.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 25, 2009 6:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that Spence might just have some "late bloomer" potential
What I see right now is a player with all the potential in the world that is having a hard time with his development because he can’t get his head right. It’s not quite immaturity, it’s more like a confidence issue and being comfortable in his own skin on the court. I honestly believe that at some point, hopefully sooner but maybe later, Spencer will suddenly “get it” and there will be no looking back.
We’ve all seen what kind of player Spencer can be. I won’t mince words; I think Mr. Hawes could be truly special. Or he could continue to struggle with consistency for years. There’s something tragic about Spencer that I can’t quite put my finger on. No one on the team can excite me as much as Spence, and no one can disappoint me as much. I honestly hope for his success more than any other player on this team.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Nov 25, 2009 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
Mostly agree
I think along the same lines you do, PW seems sophisticated enough to be able to break through to Spence, if he can find his way and become a 15-10-2 guy, we could have a pretty devastating foursome of him, JT, Kevin, and Reke.
I was fortunate to remember, somewhere around halftime
That my Purdue team (#6!) was playing Tenn (#9) in the finals of the Paradise Jam buried somewhere on an obscure cable channel I managed to find.
The Boilers clanked some FTs at the end but pulled it out.
Robbie Hummel and E’tuan Moore played well. Dispite some nasty dunks and a sweet outside shot or two, Jujuan johnson was a little dissappointing -
- (what?)
(oh, right, this is about the Kings, . . . . )
(did they play last night?)
(no, no, I mean did the Team play last night?)
(no, really? they did?)
(I thought that was a replay from that unmentionable last season? – no?)
(~Oh shit~)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
< / Purdue blog >
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
reply button
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
Shit happens
I know you know how to use it. I was just being a smartass (you know that), and I thought you might like to know that there is a college network on SBN too.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I actually didn't know it was out there
thanks :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
4 losses in a row....but good things still there
I think the one trend we can see right now of the Kings is that our wings are good. Even with injuries to Martin, Garcia and Evans, our wing players have produced. The problem is with our frontcourt. they are still inconsistent.
I am really hoping that by the end of the year, Hawes and JT, become more reliable/consistent in terms of production. Then with a another big from the draft next year, this team will be well on its way.
I also think the Kings should consider, at the deadline (not now), a trade of KT and one of our wings (whoever is more expendable after we get our full roster together) for a young established big as drafting a big seems to be more uncertain than pgs. these days.
That will be the majority opinion I think
If we have many more games like that
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
It is for me
I completely agree with this opinion. KT got some minutes and showed he could play good D and rebound. He got the minutes for that reason.
Who do you let go with him though? I am really liking our roster on a lot of different fronts and don’t know who I would want to give up.
Spencer had 5 FGA's
out of 83 shots taken. And, there were 23 FT attempts, So, out of at least 100 possessions, and with Spencer playing 25 minutes, We problably ran 1 or 2 plays for Hawes. In the Houston game where he scored 24 pts he took 15 FGA’s.
JT & Spencer have to work for every point they get, because we run very few plays for them, and almost none of the other players are capable of making a decent entry pass into the paint. When was the last time you say anybody screen Hawes’ man so that Spencer ends up with a mismatch in the post? Don’t think too hard about it because the answer is NEVER. Every point JT & Spencer get in the low post, they get on their own.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Other than post ups
Most big men get easy baskets in the ‘flow’ of a game.
There was absolutely no flow.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 24, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, Z. That's the game - pretty much in a nutshell.
Horrible performance. The team played like they didn’t give a f@ck for most the game. You can’t win when you play like that, no matter how bad the Grizzlies played.
Having a Wade/Roy type player means having a player to live and die by. Evans played so well that the Kings could have lived if he’d taken his proper role. But it didn’t happen. He is 20 years old, of course, 13 games into his pro NBA career. There’s time for growth.
I’m not sure either party, Coach W or ’Reke, is ready to grab this role by the balls and run with it. I hope they give it a go and see what happens. ’Reke can certainly polish his game but he already dominates games with his raw skill and ability. There is time for growth indeed.
Even in this horrible lackluster game there was improvement. Maybe not as a whole but for some individual parts. Serge and Brocktimus were truly inspiring. They got our offense going and played with tons of energy and fighting spirit. They were the two players that kept the game interesting…semi-interesting.
I don’t want to see another game like this until we experience another 3-plus game winning streak. Looking forward to seeing David Lee and JT battle for boards tomorrow.
Go Kings!
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
another nice recap, thanks TZ. Rec'd, I think we sometimes take these little gems for granted
I also agree with JET here. The luster was lacking. Sergio showed some promise – maybe it will develop into something, but Portland said that alot last season, let’s hope so. Brockman at the end was a joy and PW’s words in the post-game re:Jockman made me smile.
Will we fans ever see follow up on the Casspi ejection response?
The Rudy Gay call is stone cold on the money. Is it his expressions? His tendency to play when it suits him?
As far as his future – you just can’t tell. I could see Gay having some attitude adjustment – it looks like Carmelo Anthony has and they seem similar in many ways. It is hard to accurately judge some of these guys on dismal teams in dismal situations – 8 figure deal$ a year and all.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 24, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
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