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So Tyreke isn't a true PG????


I'm going to open with the disclaimer that I'm not writing this post with the intent of going into Hollingers stat book to back up what I'm saying; rather my intent here is to point out observations and stupid labels that we try to force upon players because of the position they play.

Its no big secret that going into the draft this year there were an abundance of PG, which played into the Kings favor because with the recent picks of Hawes, Thompson, and play of Martin and Cisco at the two guard spot the most glaring defiency on the team was the PG position. Even with the revival of Wabeno as a floor general I'd still make the argument that he is not a star caliber PG. A damn good one, and a very versatile one when he plays to his potential, but in a sport driven by star players he just lacks that "It" factor to make the Kings a contender. Can he be the glue that holds us together? very well yes, yes he can. No with this said let us quantem leap into the jump............whoooooosh......

Star-divide

So unlike about half of the fans on draft day who were upset that the Kings didn't select Flynn, Jennings, or the fourth Jonas Brother; I was unbelievably happy when the Kings decided to take Tyreke Evans. Now I know this seems shocking when everyone on ESPN and "insert mainstream sports media here" was saying he is a good ballhandler but more a two guard, a postion held by a stud with the last name Martin on this team. My reasons for this was 1) i was high off life and THC and 2) if you have followed Tyreke through high school and his time at Memphis the kid just has something about him that we have never had on this Kings  since the likes of Webber. He has that swagger, that provado that he can't be stopped, and when he steps on the floor not only does he think he's the best player, he flat out knows it, and makes everyone else know it.

For this reason I say to the people who were calling for the floppy haired kid that is apparently god's gift to the point guard postion (without every playing an NBA game, and yes I stayed up and saw him in the Olympics and noticed him before the draft when the hype machine got a hold of him, and felt that he played well; but thought to myself he was late first round, or bottom lottery material at best) have you ever watched the Kings play in their  "golden" years of Webber, Vlade, and Bibby? I believe not, or if you did you didn't fully understand what was going on, on the court.

See basketball unlike any other sport is a Star driven League. Don't get me wrong each sport has household names in it that are capable of doing outstanding things on their court of choice. However in no other sport can one player clearly dominate a game, and change the outcome of such game. You could have the best home run hitter in baseball, but if they are lucky they get to bat merely four times; a Cy Young pitcher only gets to make a difference once every five games. In football having a star player means they only contribute to half of the teams production, and assuming they aren't a quarterback or running back their influence on the game is based solely off the talent around them rather  then their own merits (you could get 20 tackles a game, but won't mean jack if your corners get beat everytime). You could put Peyton Manning on the Lions last year and yes they would of not gone 0-16 but how many games could Peyton himself really have won without an adequite offensive line, receiver, running back, and defense. However in the NBA you can take a bunch of scrubs and put a guy like Lebron James on that team and they can win 50+ easily.

Now this brings me back to the point of the Adelman led Kings that continually competed for a Championship year in and year out. What made this team great was not that they had a MVP type player (Even though pre-injury Webber was probably one of the top 6 players in the game) but rather that they had five guys that played like one. Those teams were on the same heartbeat basically, and each player knew where the other was going to be before that player was even there. They played a brand of basketball that was exciting and fun to watch because all five guys on the floor were willing to make the pass.

They never had that one guy that was going to get you 10+ assists a night, Bibby and Jackson were outstanding floor generals but there were not Stockton or Nash and didn't pretend to be. Each player played to their strenghts, which for many of them was unselfishness, the ability to hit down the open shot, and like the team we see before us today versatility. We had guys like Hedo who could play the 2,3, or 4 off the bench (kinda like Donte). Our best assist players were guys by the name of Webber and Vlade who if I remember correctly were not true PG's, I could be wrong about this though. Bibby and Christie's roles in the backcourt were intertangible, you could even make the argument that Christie was a better playmaker than Bibby. However, this is not to say that Bibby wasn't our PG, because he was. He was the best ballhandler on our team; and just as importantly a leader.

If you don't have one of the top 4 players in the NBA you shouldn't parade around as if you do, if you don't have Chris Paul or Steve Nash then don't expect your PG to do the same things night in and night out. As much as basketball is a star driven sport when it comes down to it five guys playing as one will beat one guy trying to carry four others.

This is why Tyreke Evans was the best fit in this draft. What he brings to the table at his position is revelutionary in the game today. Think about the fact that the knocks on him playing the point aren't that he isn't fast enough to do it, or that he doesn't have the ball handling skills to do it (because as we have seen so far he has speed and mad handles) but that he isn't the type of guy to get you double digit assists a night. To that I say how many guys are able to do that night in and night out? The fears of Evans being a ballhog or pounding the ball into the ground are just unfair.His game is no where near similar to Artest or Salmons, this kid can get to the basket at will RIGHT NOW and he is just 15 games into his nba career; think of what his driving abilities will be when he has played over 100 games. The fact of the matter is that he has the swagger to be the head of an NBA team, and has been a leader of whatever team he has been on since he was in Junior High. When it comes down to it; confidence in your ability to make plays and leadership are what make a great pg.

If you haven't noticed the identity of this franchise, as created by Petrie and Carill is five guys; actually 12 guys; playing as one. We should be thankfuly for the fact that we have a team that plays that way right now, and brings back those fond memories of the "greatest show on the court". What I want you to take out of this post is to appreciate the talent the Kings have in number 13 and not to try and label him into something he's not; and more so enjoy the fact that we have a TEAM again that enjoys the game and plays it with passion and smiles.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Too bad he's not Eric Maynor.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Nov 28, 2009 11:25 PM PST reply actions  

I was going to make that point

“don’t parade that you have a superstar when you don’t, don’t pretend to have Nash, or Stockton if you don’t, and you don’t have Eric Maynor; then you should just quite at life”

Felt it was too harsh on all the folks who don’t have an Eric Maynor, my bad there is only one Eric Maynor.

Eric Maynor doesn’t make baskets, he stares down the hoop till it puts the ball in itself. True story.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Eric Maynor doesn't commit turnorvers

but rather is just taking pitty on the other team.

Eric Maynor doesn’t show up at the start of practice, practice starts when Eric Maynor shows up.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 12:11 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

That's great

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 12:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Since Maynor is our Chuck Norris

as mentioned in a previous thread, I felt its only fitting that we continue to express how great of a player Maynor is.

Eric Maynor doens’t have to play defense, he just stares down his opponent till they give him the ball.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL Yeah.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Tyreke isn't a true PG

Neither was Dennis Johnson. He did okay. As far as what Petrie & Carril created, Carril didn’t create much of anything. I’ll maintain that what “Coachie” really does for this franchise is find a way to help develop young players. There was a reason that Coachie went to Georgetown to work with George Thompson III while he took his Kings sabbatical; he loves working with young players and teaching them the game. The Kings last I checked have that young talent.

I think this new Kings team is all about the coaching staff: Paul Westphal, Mario Elie, Truck Robinson, Jim Eyen and Bryan Gates. Whatever Shareef contributes (which is something I’m sure), and of course Coachie, is really just gravy. It’s not that Coachie doesn’t have influence; I’m not arguing he doesn’t. I’m saying that Paul Westphal is the head coach, and between the 4 coaches that PW brought in, along with himself, all have a wealth of NBA experience in one way or the other. That makes a huge difference in a winning team. That makes even more of a difference with such a young group.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 12:30 AM PST reply actions  

Yah credit is owed to Westphal and his staff

I put Petrie and Coachie in the same category because they have been the staple of the franchise for the past decade. It has been Petrie’s personel moves that created the identity of this franchise as a team that is unselfish and plays with the willingness to make the extra pass. However Coachie was the one who also taught the players to read the defense and make the passes, ala the so called Princeton offense that the old Kings teams got credit for running.

Even though the personel changes that has been the staple of the Kings offesnive identity, and you do have to give credit to Westphal though for instilling some of that again this year because the last three guys sure lacked the ability to give this team an identity.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 12:45 AM PST up reply actions  

With all due respect

Every NBA team runs the Princeton offense, and Rick Adelman was the architect of the Kings offense in those years.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I know all teams run a form of it

But the Kings got the notice for it back in the day because they did it so well. That though was also in part to fact they had two guys named Vlade and Chris who could run that high post and hit backdoor cutters while taking out the trash.

Its the reason we got put on the cover of SI with the caption of “Sacramento Kings:Basketball the way it should be played”

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh

I forgot about that cover of SI. I knew I was missing something.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Mainly what I was trying to say

Was that passing and moving without the ball were the staples of this franchise and what made us good. It was always when we got into one on one ball that we would get bogged down because we never had that many good one on one offensive players. We had shooters and passers.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 1:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Except when Reggie Theus, Mitch Richmond and Dick Motta were around

Then the staples of the franchise was suckitude.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 1:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Or we were a mirror image of the Clippers

they wrote the book on the staple of suckitude. I believe its in stores now next to Sarah Palin’s tell all, and right next to Glenn Becks career.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 1:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Along with the printout detailing the "benefits" of the Obama stimulus package.

Not really sure why we need to bring up politics. Not all of us are good little liberals or right wing wackos. There’s room for more than one opinion, and taking your political pot shots adds nothing to the board other than piss off a significant minority.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 29, 2009 5:59 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Glen Beck isn't politics

He is a poor mans Colbert. I apologize though to the small minority who may find my comparison of the Clippers play book to that of Sarah Palin’s harsh. It was a mere analogy of suckitude.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

The only thing I know about Glen Beck

is he attracts the same foaming at the mouth derision from lefties that Rush Limbaugh used to, I’ve never actually seen/heard him.

I just assume everyone that is reporting “news” is playing to their constituancy; there’s no such thing as moderate news. Never has been.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 29, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Katie Couric

she is my choice for news gathering, especially with that short hair now. Add a Kayte Christiansen and they got themselves some bombshel moderate news.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Republicans & Democrats suck

That’s my opinion & I’m sticking to it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

That's in my room

I should probably get it framed, it’s signed by Vlade and Peja.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Nov 30, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

You should get it framed

That’s cool to have. (I have it as well.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 30, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Sickest SI cover EVER

and yes its my homer pick……I sleep with it in my pillow case and have merry dreams of no look passes from Williams to Vlade; for a behind the back pass to the trailing Webber for a monster jam over “insert sorry fool here”.

by Gilo424 on Nov 30, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

BTW who would of thunk

that 4 white dudes (two of them from a different country and barely able to speak english) and one black guy would be the most entertaining show in basketball, I believe during that time even our flashy bench mob was dominated with such amazing athletes like Jon “drain a three in your eye” Barry, Scott “Fu Man Chu” Pollard, and Hedo “baby faced” Turkoglu. We had Mateen Cleeves to be our tolken buy off the bench; and i believe Bobby’s backup assuming Tony Delk was already gone (talk about a microwave that dude could put up points in a heartbeat)

by Gilo424 on Nov 30, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

DC13 is half black

I’m not sure whether that entitles him as being part of the other 2 white guys.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 30, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions  

You right i'll change it too

1 black dude, 2 white dudes from eastern europe, 1 half white/half black, and a confused white boy made of chocolate.

by Gilo424 on Nov 30, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Works for me

Also rec’d.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 30, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Good post

I still think its too early to make a lot of judgements one way or another.

But the kid has a ton of talent.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 29, 2009 12:51 AM PST reply actions  

Yah 15 games is nothing to make any judgement on

But I like the direction now. I like the fact that it seems Petrie did a good job in finding players that compliment each others games and are versatile much like the original Kings team he built. Each of the guys can play off each others styles very well. It will take more time though for it to fully develop. The lack of cohersion with each other is why this team is so turnover prone early on. See a lot of passes to cutters that aren’t there or misread passes into the post. That will get cleaned up (hopefully) as the young guys mature and get to know each others game.

Everyone brings something different to the table though which is nice. Its why the old teams were successful.

by Gilo424 on Nov 29, 2009 1:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Good post

Petrie now looks really smart for not taking Rubio, especially since Tyreke has been arguably the ROY.

by Gobroks on Nov 29, 2009 4:37 PM PST reply actions  

I guess that you are assuming that Rubio wouldn’t be better than Tyreke.

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

At this point, isn't that like saying that one is assuming that John Wall wouldn't be better than Tyreke?

I mean, Wall will probably get to the NBA before Rubio.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 1, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Saying that the Petrie is smart for having drafted Tyreke makes sense; Tyreke is competing for ROY. But I dont know why you would say that he looks good for having taken Reke over Rubio—unless you think that Rubio wouldn’t have come over to play for the Kings. I think he would have. We dont know how good Rubio would have been, I guess is my point—so we shouldnt use that as a reason to praise Petrie.

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with that

There were a hundred other guys that Petrie didn’t draft, and Rubio was just one of them.

I don’t know whether Rubio would have come over to play for the Kings or not. I’m sure glad that we were spared the drama.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 1, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it was clear

that Tyreke was the more physical specimen of the two, and that’s something we’ve needed forever, to get more physical.

Rubio might have been slicker looking with the passing, but it’s highly unlikely he would have averaged more than 18 points a game to date. And although Rubio’s defense isn’t bad, it’s nowhere near the level that Tyreke brings.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 2, 2009 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't catch the TV question tonight

But basically it compared Tyreke to LeBron and Joe Johnson in terms of points, rebounds and assists. I think they are the only players in the league to average 19 points, 5 rebounds and 4-5 assists or something like that. That’s pretty good company to keep.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 29, 2009 10:41 PM PST reply actions  

We talked about it in the game thread

And, like you, we also are quite impressed by it. How could you not be?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 29, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

It's early

But those kind of overall credentials will be emphasized when it comes down to ROY voting. Also hopefully the quantum leap the Kings take in wins this year from 17 to ?

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Nov 30, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Wins don't usually hurt matters

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 30, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Great post. Rec'd

Great point about Bibby. He brought leadership and clutch shooting to an already great team. Bibby isn’t the flashy play-maker that the media loves (Kidd & CP3) but he’s stabilizing an awesome Hawks team with his valuable attributes.

You don’t need an assist monster point guard to win championships (see L*kers, Spurs, Pistons etc). If that was the case CP3 would have been in the finals a few seasons ago and Jason Kidd or John Stockton would have had a ring already.

’Reke and the Kings are in a very good place.

33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.

by JETisKing on Nov 30, 2009 4:34 PM PST reply actions  

If Bibby isn't the most overrated player to ever wear a Kings uni

I don’t know who is.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 30, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Sean may~

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Nov 30, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

How is he overrated?

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 30, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah!

Sean May would have to be rated first!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Nov 30, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

He is rated

I just can’t remember the speed rating or how many steel belts he has to have to hold it all in…

Wait a minute… Oh yeah, you guys are right. Damn, I forgot they don’t rate re-treads.

by MustangMBS on Nov 30, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

He was rated by Hometown Buffet as an 5+, as in not even a 5 course buffet will satisfy this guy.

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Nov 30, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Faaaaancy

A five course buffet?!

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Close -

Sean May is overeated.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 30, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I knew i read that comment to earlier in the morning before my coffee!

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Nov 30, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Thank hEvans!

Cause I like the diversity and depth we do have at PG.

by MustangMBS on Nov 30, 2009 5:04 PM PST reply actions  

Then

you should thank Beno and Sergio as well ;)

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 30, 2009 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

You got me there :)

Damn that Sergio and Beno. Why does one have to make all the clutch shots and the other speed past all the defenders for buckets.

AH well, trade Tyreke talk time yet? I mean with Beno and Sergio we just don’t need him or KMart. Time for them to go! They clearly aren’t as good as Maynor ;)

by MustangMBS on Nov 30, 2009 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I like it

Reke and Speed for Maynor (maybe we should also include next years pick)

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Nov 30, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

On the right track

But your still not giving enough for them to even consider a deal

by kwill on Nov 30, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

gotta give em Reke, Speed and JT and throw in Donte and next years 1st rounder..Maynor’s just that good!

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Nov 30, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Tyreke

He seems to do a lot better next to our more PGish guard options like Beno (and maybe Sergio) than other guard options. I think it is good to relieve him of some ballhandling and creating duties from time to time. The offense tends to get a little static with Tyreke doing the crossover dance for the first 15 seconds of each offensive posession. However, I don’t think this mean that he can’t get better as an initiator and creator…in fact it appears he already has and will continue to.

I’d like to see Tyreke probe the defense in a more lateral manner, and create opportunities in the middle area between the post and three point land. His approach to initiating the offense is rather simple right now, and I’m looking forward to some added creativity, playfulness even, that very capable creators employ

I would also like to see: better movement off of the ball; using his body to keep defenders away from the ball when dribbling; and more aggressive exploitation of mismatches, especially post-ups.

I want his game to become more diverse, and it should with time.

Having leveled some criticisms, I should say that as a Kings fan, Reke is really exciting, and makes watching and following the Kings considerably more interesting and rewarding.

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions  

What other guard options?

I think Tyreke – Donté has been good. Allows him to go against the opposing PG. With Beno it’s ok, but Tyreke gets the best defender.

I think he’s been least effective next to Sergio, because Sergio is really only effective with the ball in his hands. As is Tyreke.

The best situation will definitely be next to Kevin, pick your poison.

Beno is the Kevin Jr. option. If they try to shut down Tyreke, Beno can get free. Kevin would be much more effective. And what is more likely is they put their best defender on Kevin and that will allow Tyreke to create Havoc.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 1, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

We'll be a lot better off

with Evans/Martin/Cisco, offensively at least. Evans/Greene have had issues with ball handling, once we get Martin/Cisco back, Cisco will be able to help and still will make the 3s Nocioni makes now.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Dec 1, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Kevin and Donté. Maybe Sergio and Omri, depending on whether you think Omri is a guard option. But realize that I was speaking of what’s best for Tyreke, and you were speaking of the situation (better for the team). I have little doubt that Reke and Kevin are the best pairing for the team. My point above is that it is beneficial for Tyreke for the time being to have a guard next to him who help can ball handle, probe, and initiate.

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

IMO, Donté, Ime and Omri aren't guards and Kevin and Cisco aren't available

so our only guards are PGish. I see your point now though.

But I disagee. I think Tyreke has largely been ineffective next to Sergio. Sergio needs the ball and if Tyreke is initiating, Sergio’s defender can leave him. This is why I think he’s a little better with Beno, who is more of a shooting threat and would be even better with Kevin in the future.

I don’t think Tyreke’s ball handling has been a problem. He’s turning the ball over some, but not a crazy amount(actually less than Jennings or Flynn per game). It’s not like he’s getting his pocket picked repeatedly. Most of his TOs have seemed to be silly passes or offensive fouls.

I don’t really want Tyreke spotting up for 3. I’d much rather Tyreke initiate the offense, a majority of the time.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 1, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree that Donte, Ime, and Omri aren’t guards. And I know Kevin and Cisco arent available. I also agree that Beno and Reke work well together, but not only because Beno can shoot, but because he probes, initiates, and creates well. So stylistically, Beno is a good compliment to Reke, even tho Speed and Havoc will probably result in a better team.

Tyreke is having a difficult time initiating the offense, not ballhandling, per se. With him in the role of initiator, the offense stales. Others tend to stand around as Tyreke does the crossover dance.

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I wasn't saying you didn't know Kevin and Cisco weren't available

just giving my reason for asking what non-PGish guards, in my initial reply.

How effective is Tyreke when Beno initiates the offense? It seems to me that Tyreke is most effective when he’s initiating. I don’t have a problem with Beno initiating, but we’re talking about what makes Tyreke most effective, right?

As for standing around, I think that’s by design. If you’re either isolating for the drive or running a pick and roll, you don’t really want the other players running all over the place drawing their defenders into the lane. You would if you were running a play to free up a shooter, but we don’t have any of those at the moment. So, I think that’s what the coaches want.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 1, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Good points.

Well Donte has been playing in a guard role. And I think Omri could as well in our current situation of injuries.

I guess when I say initiating the offense, I mean getting in situations in which you can create for others, and I mentioned in the last few paragraphs of my initial post how I thought he could do that, how he could improve as a PG.

Your point about isolating for Tyreke is a good one. And I guess you are right, they are coming right down the floor and running iso plays for Tyreke—perhaps leading to a drive and kick, or a drive and dish. It’s amazing to watch Tyreke do his thing, but I hope we get to see some diversity out of him as a creator, too.

by DustyG on Dec 1, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with that, more diversity would be good.

Looking at Tyreke’s top 5-man units over at 82games.com, and the Reke, Greene, Nocioni, Thompson, Hawes unit is the best at +23.

The Evans, Beno, Nocioni, Thompson, Hawes unit is -14, which may shed some light on why PW has kept Beno coming off the bench.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 1, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

That's cuz the Knicks suck

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

fucking small sample size

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 1, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sorry

I only fuck chicks that look like Megan Fox over the internet.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

fucking small sample size

Link to full size

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 1, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions  

You're a hater

Full Size her next time! (Yeah, yeah.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, I didn't read it all

Because there was a lot of text and I didn’t feel like reading through the BS just to see if you were or were not saying tyreke is or isn’t a “true” pg. Either way, I would like to quote ESPN as listing the following:

PG: Beno Udrih Sergio Rodriguez
SG: Tyreke Evans Kevin Martin
SF: Andres Nocioni Omri Casspi
PF: Jason Thompson Donte Greene
C: Spencer Hawes Jon Brockman

Thought it was an interestingly bold showing.

I would also like to trade Kevin Martin, for realsees. But you all know that already.

Don't hate, I'm a realist!

by Sammyp831 on Dec 1, 2009 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

I trust ESPN too

It’s my best source of information. Especially when they say May is still starting over Hawes.

Now, let’s trade Kevin for expirings already!!!

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 1, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Ohh

and I didn’t ready your whole post. Saw the screenname and didn’t feel like reading through all the BS

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 1, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't be a hater

while drinking gin and reading Sammy’s posts ed. You know what your mama said about that!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Mama didn't raise no fool!!

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 1, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions  

If she did you'd be a Clippers fan

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

hahah

You’re funny. For a douche bag. But it looks like you did read it since you refer to the start, middle and end of the post! Good Job! Most words you’ve read since… well, since mama left that letter about going to get milk and never came home.. wah wah.

Don't hate, I'm a realist!

by Sammyp831 on Dec 1, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't get it

But I’m sure that was really funny. (sad face) :(

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 1, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Run Eddie Run...

Run Eddie Run… Run Eddddiiiiieeeeee Runnnnnnnn.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

At least SB isn't :P

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Here i'll paraphrase my ramblings for the lesser inclined to read

It doesn’t matter if Tyreke is a true PG, he is a great ball handler and born leader with the swagger to be the primary ball handler of an NBA team. My point was the Kings have never really relied on the likes of a “true” Pg to be successful. Its more about having five games that play as one as I illustrated with examples of Kings teams of the past. The main point being its better to have five guys who are willing to move the ball and find the open man (the staple of the Kings offense in the Adelman days) than to rely on one game to create all your offense (unless set guy’s name happens to be Stockton, Kidd, Nash, Paul, or Eric Maynor).

Thank you for not assuming I was full of BS and ranting about Tyreke not being a PG, which i don’t give a shit if is, as long as the team plays like a team and wins.

by Gilo424 on Dec 1, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I would

Not call reke a “great ball handler” at all.. he IS a good ball handler. But, I would much rather have Beno or Serg brining the ball up and getting the offense started than Reke for the time being. He seems to slow things down at times. But I will admit that cannot all be blamed on him, especially when the 4 other kings on the court are just standing around while Reke dribbles (this has been a Kings issue in the past).. Reke can become a “great” ball handler in due time…and I’m glad the NBA is forcing him to by calling the “palming” more and more. But all in all you’re 100% right that it’s the 5 players playing as 1 that makes the difference.

Also, I would never Assume. That’s a douchy thing to do.

Don't hate, I'm a realist!

by Sammyp831 on Dec 2, 2009 7:18 AM PST up reply actions  

This post make no sense

At this point in Tyreke’s career he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Having Beno or Serg getting the offense started is a great recipe for negating everything Tyreke can bring to the offense.

Of course Tyreke cannot always initiate the offense, so it is beneficial to have Beno or Serg start the offense sometimes. but it makes very little sense to me to have Tyreke standing around at the 3 point line hoping Beno or Serg decide to pass it to him most of the time.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 2, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't say that at all...

I said I would like to see the other two PGs START the offense more often for the time being… get things going. Reke does not get this done often enough. He’s 15 games into his career, he doesn’t need the additional pressure of having to be the primary ball handler at all times… He can learn by observation. Stop with the assumptions. Nothing was said about him standing around the 3 point line. That’s why i said situations like this can’t all be blames on Reke since the other 4 players are out there “standing around at the 3 point line”

Don't hate, I'm a realist!

by Sammyp831 on Dec 2, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions  

So where does Tyreke stand while Beno or Sergio Start the offense?

The reason the other players are standing behind the 3 point line when Tyreke is initiating the offense it so that their defenders have to be out there with them, thus giving Tyreke more space to work.

Reke is effective with the ball in his hand. He is not a jump shooter right now, so having him stand there and watch someone else play PG is a waste or at best a decoy(as cc said below).

That’s fine sometimes, but a waste of his talents if you do it a majority of the time. Which is what you seem to be advocating.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 2, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not advocating

That tyreke gets the ball taken out of hands all the time. But I would like it in the other PGs hands more often. This isn’t a one on one game. Yes, that’s what tyreke is good at, but he is still learning the drive and dish. Observing the other PGs in action is not a waste of anything. A waste would be having him observe without getting playing time.

Tyreke shouldn’t “Stand” anywhere. He should, as should our other players, be moving without the ball more. There is too much “standing” around on this team to start with, which encourages the 1 on 1, less team driven, style of play.

Again, you’re making assumptions. Give it a rest, man.

Don't hate, I'm a realist!

by Sammyp831 on Dec 2, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Lately I've seen more cutting from this team

I will agree that early on there was a lot of one on one play, but it was effective one on one play. In fact a lot of our turnovers came on guys cutting and the passer either passing behind them or delivering the ball before the guy even makes his cut. (this gets repaired as the players get more comfortable with each other.

Tyreke playing one on one isn’t really that big of an issue because he is learning to take his man off the drible and find one of the many shooters on the perimeter, hence the reason the teams stands around the three line when Tyreke is operating. This is also why I say Tyreke has “great” handles, he has an arsenal of moves at his disposal (my favorite is when he power dribbles and steps foward almost always making the defender fall back three steps; when he can learn to do this and pull up for a jumpshot afterwards WATCH OUT).

by Gilo424 on Dec 2, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes

when Sergio is in there with Tyreke, it’s like Tyreke is a decoy. Sergio either drives and dishes to a finisher or someone like Omri spotted up for a three, and rarely is it Tyreke. But Tyreke still contributes on the other end.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 2, 2009 8:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Amen

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 1, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Well said SB

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure it goes:

Maynor>Thabeet>Spiderman>Ironman

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 1, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sure Spiderman has a longer wingspan

and is able to alter more shots. Just my opinion

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 1, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

You could be right

Neither Iron Man nor Spider Man has “played a single NBA game!”

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 1, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

And who knows what

Iron Man’s height would be in bare feet?

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 1, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

His vertical is absoutely insane though.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 1, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Oops

I mean, may I just set my computer to “auto-rec” for SB?

Sorry, LPA. IT won’t happen again.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 1, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

No worries.

The first time you asked if it’s possible, and the second time if it’s permissable.

Legitimate questions, both.

But a better question might be should you set it to auto-rec? Because while his writing is stellar, sometimes he’s just wrong.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 1, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

You're very mean LPA

I’d just like to take the opportunity to say I admire that in other people’s wives.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 1, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Here are my thoughts on your thoughts SB

1) I agree with you on the fact that a “true PG” is in the eye of the beholder. My point was exactly what you said, the knock on Evans wasn’t that he was a good player but that the Kings needed a PG and drafted a SG which is unfair to Evans because I don’t think you can group him into one postion or category. If he sets his mind to it (which it seems he will, so far) he can have a monster all-around game. I think the knock that he couldnt play along other scorers was to say he has a selfish style of play; as his game was compared to Artest and Salmons at times. "Reke was the right pick because he was the best available player.

2) If the Kings could of gotten a high assist guy that would of been great. My point here was that the mastermind behind blueprint A is also the mastermind behind the new blueprint B. Geoff knows that you don’t need a high assist PG to win basketball games in the NBA. If you have a team thats committed to finding open guys and creating for their teamates than just having a beast of a PG is suitable enough. Not say Bibby was a beast or that Williams didn’t help contribute to this franchise (because he surely put us on the national map), but Bibby did bring a clutch floor general quality that was key to the team. Evans obviously isn’t that kind of player but his mentality and the way he carries himself reminds me more of the top flight ball handlers in the NBA.

3) I was torn between Jennings and Evans for the Kings pick. I could have lived with either one, and i’m slightly jealous of MIL; but Tyreke helps ease that jealousy quite a bit. I felt that the the very thing people criticized Jennings for was what helped him the most. His biggest problem coming out of high school was himself, he had loads of talent but his ego was even greater. Going overseas and being the last man on the bench and having to work for what he got was a much more viable option then to being a superstar on a major college team. Would of liked to see him tear up the NCAA but its good to see him get his at the Pro Level.

4) I get that none of the players had played an NBA game, I just didn’t like the fact that the only two superstars in this draft were supposed to be Griffin and Rubio. I"ve watched some of Rubios games and his Olympic run and was just never as infatuated with him as others. Now two more years down the rode if he gets a little quicker and stronger I wouldn’t mind him; I just never felt he had the quickness to be a primary ballhandler. He would of been a project much like Thabeet.

In the end I agree with your statement and even posted it in my Fanpost. We should all be happy for the team we have; and the potential star talent we have in Mr. Evans. However I believe that Evans will be one of those players (as unfair as it may be) that no matter how well he performs will always be questioned about what position he should be playing. Which was the point of the post. Just don’t try to put this kid in a category and enjoy the Freak of Nature that we have.

by Gilo424 on Dec 1, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Sounds like we agree on most points.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 1, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

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