Post-Game Thread: Hawks at Kings
by Tom Ziller on Nov 4, 2009 10:00 PM PST
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Tough Loss. Bring on the Jazz.
If they owned us in FG% and blocked shots, we got them in Steals and TOs(we had less).
It really all came down to executing in the final 3 minutes. I’m thinking we’ll win at least half of these close games this year. Last year, we won none I think.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I think we'll also have more close games
ot like its their fault, but attendance was dissapointing tonight. A bigger crowd has a bigger effect an a young team like ours.
The future begins now...
The likelihood was that this team was always going to start slowly
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Didn't get a chance to see the game
Who the hells job was it to gaurd Jamal crawford? I know the guy can drop 50 on any giving night but just curious.
by allbenji's on Nov 4, 2009 10:31 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I was there!
In a sweet suite. And there we two moments when I went ‘WTF’?!?!//?//!!!/?
1) John Brockman enters the game for SHawes. Insignificant out of context, but RIGHT AFTER SPENCER HAD SCORED THE LAST (AND HIS FIRST 0F THE HALF) FOUR POINTS OF THE GAME*. Atlanta adjusts, goes right at Brockman two plays in a row. The result is a +5 point swing for Atl. This literally happened in 1:40 of game time.
2) Desmond Mason comes in for Casspi, early in the 4th. Mason was in the game for three minutes, our defense was non-existent and we had trouble with our offense and ball movement (two foul shots by JT). Also a +6 (8 actual points-JT’s free throws) swing for Atl in less than three minutes.
By all means I know we’re not deep and our players need to occasionally rest. But both of these substitutions really perplexed me at the time. I thought in the second case that Mason was K9, AND I WAS ACTUALLY OK WITH THAT UNTIL I REALIZED IT WAS MASON. [Then since I officially hate mason in a Kings uni, I payed attention and nothing made any sense until he was subbed out.] In a similar event Casspi had just scored a three point play and got subbed for KMart just as he was developing a rhythm. He gets taken out, put back in two minutes later, and just doesn’t have the same touch, stride, swagger, rhythm.
For me, this loss is on Westy. Those two moments cost us 11 points. And that’s the ball game.
*Martin did have a layup here or something, but he’s KMart and his points don’t really count in determining everyone else’s rhythm since he’s a scoring machine, etc., etc., etc.
If yr not happy with the results, lower yr expectations.
I too thought the substitution patterns were puzzling
and should have mention it more clearly in my post.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Nov 4, 2009 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
Edit it
You can do that you know.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Our best lineup was in the 3rd
Hawes, JT, Martin, Tyreke & Beno. They got us an 8 point lead and took back the rebound advantage. And, we never saw that lineup again. Omri got beat by Johnson in the 4th so PW took him out. Mason got beat so he came out. And, I don’t even want to think about Thomas, but I have to wonder how May goes from starting to not even a consideration off the bench. We were in the game up until PW, went for defense.
But, really the transition D was bad all game, no one is getting back to the basket. Omri was pointing at a guy running down the sideline, telling Noc to cover him. No one did and Bibby threw a long pass over all the Kings for an easy dunk.
. And, we got screened every play that wasn’t a fast break, and even if the bigs showed, they were to slow to stop anyone.. Martin is still help defending and leaving his man open. Bibby got at least 3 open 3pt shots after Martin & Tyreke played off him to help or try to steal. And, Beno’s defense on Crawford at the end of the 3rd keep us from opening up a 10 pt lead.
Since the start of preseason, most people here and even PW have thought we needed more height & size in the post. So, here comes Atlanta, one of the few team in the league where we have a size advantage, and we pass the ball into the post maybe 8 times the entire game while taking 96 shots. We are becoming the same jumpshooting team that’s been losing the last 3 years.
After VSL, I thought Tyreke would make an effort to set up his teammates, off his penetration. That doesn’t seem to be the case. Coming into the game he was 15 of 42 for 36%. Today he went 7 of 21 for 33%. That’s a total of 63 shots in while he has a total of 18 assists in 5 games. He’s beginning to look more & more like Salmons without the outside shot.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
5 games in
And you were expecting Steve Nash? Get real. This is the real NBA now. Not VSL.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
re: Tyreke. I concur!
C’mon, HighTops, the kid is still figuring out where his locker is!
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Screw that MM
Look at how Spencer played. You can’t tell me he was awful tonight.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not Nash, but how about Beno
I’m only looking for him to pass the ball occasionally.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
How did we win the Memphis game?
Having Beno & Hawes passing the ball, and setting other people for easy baskets. If this team doesn’t start moving the ball around, I won’t care 50 games into the season. Forty games into the season we’ll be talking about who we;re going to draft with the #1 pick in the draft.
We’re not talking about some difficult skill here. I’m talking about not driving into the lane and knowing where the open man might be, if you get doubled in the paint.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
It isn't that simple HT
You’re making it sound that way, but it’s not. Sorry. The Hawks are effective defensively, and the Kings did at times try to move the ball.
You’re expecting veteran savvy out of a young inexperienced group that has played 5 regular season games together.
Guess what? It just doesn’t work that way. It’s a process. This is exactly why so many teams fear rebuilding. But, it’s necessary. A necessary evil in a world full of them. Go figure.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Remember
1. Evans is a 20 year old NBA rookie.
2. Beno is a 27 year old NBA veteran with 5 years under his belt.
3. Evans will NEVER be Chris Paul. He is a driving point guard who looks to score as much as assist. Evans will probably never average 10 assists per game but in the right offense will probably become a 20/6/6/2 guy in the league. I would be fine with that.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
This team needs Beno to be a threat
If that’s scoring the ball first, that’s fine with me. Atl is one of the 10-12 best teams in the NBA. It’s not surprising they hit more shots than the Kings did tonight.
Stop trippin.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hmm
Beno: 24 mins, 1 Ast, 1 TO
Tyreke: 29 mins, 4 Ast, 2 TO
Yeah, Tyreke shot for shit, and too much, but Beno wasn’t an assist machine
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 5, 2009 5:11 AM PST up reply actions
oops
Typo. Reke had 39 mins.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 5, 2009 5:44 AM PST up reply actions
Also
We’re talking about Atlanta here. It’s not like the Kings lost to one of the 5 worst teams in the league. (Atlanta did make the Eastern Semi’s, regardless of where they were toast to Cle or not.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
if VSL could determine who would be a great NBA Player
Quincy Douby and Donte Greene would be ALL STARS
by JZiadeh on Nov 5, 2009 1:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Yep.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Take a comment out of context why don't you
Since he was drafted, everyone has been in agreement that Tyreke needed to work on his jumpshot. And, having him play PG, this best offensive weapon was to attack the rim, and draw the double team. Once he drew the double team he needed to find the open shooter. Drive and score or drive and Dish, or am I thinking of some other #4 draft pick.
Well, what I saw today was a guy that couldn’t drive past Mike Bibby. I guy that took a lot of jump shots, or drove to the basket. What I didn’t see was a guy that drove to the basket and Dished out to the open man. Which was a skill that he showed he could do in VSL. Now, I don’t think he’s forgotten how to perform that particular skill, and I’m wondering why he doen’t perform it more often.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Because it's not that simple in a NBA game
The VSL is not a NBA game. Mike Bibby would drop 60 on most guys in the VSL at a bare minimum HT.
Context here.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
What are you saying?
That the #4 pick in the draft isn’t capable of making a pass? Or, that he’s only capable of making a pass in the VSL, but not in the real NBA.
Or, are you saying that it’s ok for the #4 pick to continue to shot, even though he’s shooting 34%, because his development is more important than the team winning a game?
If that was Beno last year, you and every person on this site would be crusifying him. When your not making your shot and your a shooter, you keep on shooting. But, when your not a shooter, you need to find other ways to help your team. I’m not discounting Tyreke’s worth. I’m questioning that he continued to shoot and he’s not a shooter.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The Kings lost because they have less talent
There is no way for Tyreke Evans to develop without him making those mistakes. It’s not like other players didn’t make mistakes.
There were plenty of missed opportunities by Kevin Martin alone that simply need to improve for the Kings to get better. Is Kevin Martin trying to lose games?
Tyreke Evans is making mistakes right now. You would too if you were 20 years old. I watched at least 15-20 mistakes by Jason Thompson alone tonight. One player. I love JT as much as everyone else around here, and I’m rooting for JT, but Shock has a long ways to go. A star he is not. He is not the great rebounder that some make him out to be. JT has an inflated offensive rebound total due to simply missing a lot of shots. His finishing rate for a player his size and opportunities is way too low. I’m not talking about the shots he missed in the low post that are the major weakness of his offensive game.
I’ll give an example of where Spencer didn’t get the credit, but should have. W ith about 6 mins to go in the game, the shot clock was winding down and Spencer had to put up a shot. In doing so the Hawks sent 2 guys running at him giving Jt the opportunity to get an o-board. Now, JT ended up getting that board and getting the putback.
Who is to blame there?
At the same time, what I saw was a very young, inexperienced team that lacks execution at key points. The Hawks are a 50 win caliber team. The Kings will be LUCKY to win 25. Recognize that.
Furthermore, the Kings have a lot of holes on this roster that does not help Tyreke enhance his own abilities. If you put Desmond Mason or Omri Casspi on the floor, you can guarantee a guy like Mike Bibby will not be guarding Tyreke.
It is easier said than done to exploit a guy like Bibby when you have a massive offensive hole like a Mason (or Casspi who did not play well tonight) on the court.
Even when Nocioni was on the court the Kings at times didn’t really know where to get Tyreke the ball. The problem I think for Noc, JT & Shawes is that giving the ball up to Tyreke is natural, but on the perimeter. G’s in this league primarily play on the outside; not the inside. It’s an adjustment, and it’s very counter-intuitive to the game experience most players have had. Tyreke is learning how to exploit his talents in this league, and doing so vs the Hawks provided a golden opportunity that went awry.
The difference was not Tyreke’s poor shooting, or the fact that the Kings can’t hide Mason offensively. The problem is the Hawks are a better team and they take advantage of every single weakness the Kings have. Mainly that weakness is lack of execution and familiarity.
You can bet your ass that Mike Woodson noticed how different the team was from last season. The Kings are in a transition period, and it’s not pretty. I suggest getting used to it HT. It’s not going to be all cookies & cream.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 5, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Well thought out and clearly stated
In the end we both believe that Tyreke made mistakes.
The only difference seems to me to be that I chose to identify what I thought were his mistakes.
I thought Tyreke would make an effort to set up his teammates, off his penetration. That doesn’t seem to be the case.
So, unless someone wants to discuss the accuracy of my observations. I think your preaching to the choir. I understand he’s young, I understand he’s coming off a sore ankle, and I understand he’s going to make mistakes. What I’m discussing here are what mistakes he made and what he needs to correct them. Not that he shouldn’t be making mistakes in the 5th game of his rookie season.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I'm not worried about settng up teammates up for shots
I’m more worried about the TYPE OF SHOTS that Tyreke is getting. What you’re talking about is a process of sorts, and that’s not going to work itself completely out by the end of this season. It’s a delicate balancing act, and there isn’t one way to accomplish it.
I’m not worried about involving his teammates because I see enough of that now. What I’m worried about is how long it takes a young team to recognize that maximizing each individual’s player potential within the team concept takes time.
The good thing, is that I think that is what is happening. It’s just not always working.
If you want to ask if I’m excited, you bet. If I’m worried about the lack of ball movement, not really. I expected that. It’s not like the Kings have been perfect purveyors of ball movement even in the best of times. I’m not sure why I would expect high quality ball movement now.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I still see plenty of desire to setup teammates
I’m sorry HighTops if you expect a mature finished product at this point, you’re going to have to be patient. Your statement that Tyreke couldn’t beat Mike Bibby of the dribble is ridiculous.
Tyreke is having trouble catching up to playing NBA players. He’s beating his guy, the difference is now, when he beats his guy, he’s being met by help that’s as athletic as him or more, not some snot nosed punk kid on scholarship while he works on his Social Services degree. Tonight, he’d beat Bibby and be staring down Al Horford, Josh Smith or Marvin Williams. Yes, he should pass out in that situation, but you have to realize its not nearly as easy as you seem to think. When the fairly obvious pass is there to make, he makes it, but good NBA defense takes away the obvious play.
Meanwhile, Tyreke is learning. He has the tools to get it, and he seems willing, but there are going to be a lot of rough moments. I think his biggest struggle right now is, he seems to think he needs to make every play. We’re doing too much isolating him to beat his guy, posting him or having him run pick and roll. We need to run less of the offense through him, and he needs to realize he doesn’t need to make the play every time he touches the ball.
Now, the question is, does he try to make every play because he’s a selfish asshole, or will he get it and is he learning. I believe its the latter, because I haven’t seen any other “egomaniac” issues, and I think he’s just trying to figure out his role.
Patience (which I know you have), I really think he will setup his teammates more, he just needs more time.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Nov 5, 2009 5:40 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
It's not just that 4-3 (although you've explained it very well in your ownr ight)
It’s that the Kings want him scoring a lot. He’s their 2nd (or 3rd) best offensive threat at the moment. Other than Spencer Hawes and Kevin Martin, there isn’t anyone else consistently on this team that can get their shot off anywhere with reason.
You don’t need 12 of those guys on your roster, but you need 3 or 4 that can. The Kings are asking Tyreke Evans to be the alpha, omega, the solar system and maybe the restaurant at the end of the universe. Given how he’s played up until this point, the learning curve, and having to annunciate with the media is throwing him off.
This is all new to him. 5 games in, I gotta say given that he’s gone toe to toe with Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Mike Conley/Allen Iverson and Mike Bibby/Joe Johnson after 5 games, he’s doing quite fine.
(Other than Brandon Jennings, most rookies are flat out struggling right now. Even Jennings isn’t being asked to do what Evans is being asked to do.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Nov 5, 2009 6:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
HT you are right
Since no one else wants to say it, and I’m viewed as too tough on Evans anyway. Yes, Tyreke is young. Yes he is expected to make mistakes. But what we saw tonight will happen over and over until Evans learns to pass out of the double-team. The reason you didn’t see Evans drive by Bibby more is because the Hawks had two shot blockers just waiting to trap him. Not sure how many time he got stuffed, but it was enough to show him that this is not college.
That being said, his drives DID open people up. The Hawks were not willing to let any single player guard him one on one when he drove to the hoop. The problem is court vision. Recognizing who is open quickly and making the right pass out of the drive.
Evans did not have to do a lot of that in college because most teams couldn’t stop his drives. I expect it will take most of the season—and lots of tecahing and practicing—to develop that. Some players—Salmons for example—never do. In the mean time, expect to see Evan’s numbers go way down when he faces he team that can crowd the lane.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Not sure why you think you are being too tough on Tyreke
I agree with everything you said. Expecting him to find the open guy when he’s doubled consistently right now is unreasonable.
Give him some time, and we’ll see how he develops. He’ll never have “special” court vision (ala Rubio), because I think you are born with that, but I don’t see any reason to crucify Tyreke at this moment for not being the complete package when he’s played 4 games.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
^ 5 games
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Just messin with ya mayne
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And 4-3
I agree with you about Evan’s court vision (and with SB I suppose). But, I don’t consider that a big deal. Hawes & Thompson are both terrific passers (well above grade—top 5 at their position now) at the moment. If we judge Tyreke on the Rubio curve based on what he does best, Reke will always fail.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That thought is incomplete
Because Hawes & JT have court visioin and passing abilities, I think Evans lesser ability in this area means a lot less. It sure didn’t matter with Mike Bibby around. (UNless you think Mike has great court vision.) On the other hand, I love that the Kings have a rookie that teams are already figuring out how to guard. Tyreke Evans changes how teams guard him.
That’s the difference between a Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans. Jennings will get his opportuniites to score. Most teams won’t even let Evans operate against smaller players most of the team because it will cause too many problems.
If that aint’ respect, what is?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's a steep curve that you're not asking out of any other rookie
I think Reke can handle it though. Which is I don’t mind your criticisms because they are good points. It’s one of the reason’s I didn’t know that Reke would be the right player for the Kings to take.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Setting up teammates
In the fourth, the defenders on Evans were GIVING him the jumpshot and clogging the middle. That is basically the same as double teaming Martin on the outside. Evans would be making a MISTAKE if he were to drive when the middle is not open and his defender is 3 feet off him. He has to take those shots at some point or he is not going to get any respect. You can set picks for Evans all you want but if his defender keeps going behind the screens, Evans won’e be able to drive to set up a teammate. Expect MANY nights where Tyreke shoots 30% or so. Each year will get better. NBA defenses for now will not let him drive the lane and set up teammates as easily as someone like Steve Nash or other good outside shooting point guards.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Couple things
1. Tyreke was still probaly feeling the effects of his ankle trying not to make excuses but he couldnt get passed mike conley monday so im putting two and two together.
2. Tyreke did drive past Mike lots of time but was either A) Blocked by weak side help from Horford or Smith, or B) double teamed by Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford
3. Tyreke has 4 Assists which is 2nd most tonight on the Kings behind Jason Thompson who had 5. Tyreke could have easily had three more had his teammates finished at the rim and you see the stat line and say “15 points 7 Assists, not bad” against Atlanta, the most athletic team in the NBA.
Tyreke is gonna have games where he has more points than assist or more assist than points, its only 5 games into the season. who knows, Tyreke can light up Deron Williams Saturday and do crap against Raymond Felton that is expected for a young rookie. i sure CP3 had a hard time going against Jason Kidd or Eric Snow his first year then again i could be wrong i didnt really follow the NBA that closely.
Ime Udoka
I haven’t seen much of the first few games but from what I’ve seen Mason hasn’t impressed at all. With the Udoka acquisition, could Mason’s minutes be numbered?
by ttylerbballcamper on Nov 5, 2009 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
Reke
Seems like Reke’s lack of explosion and his tentativeness have to be, at least in part, due to his ankle. Wasn’t he more aggressive before? I thought so.
Not more agressive, but quicker
the fact that he dribbled so much and still couldn’t get around Bibby, makes me think he’s still hurt. But he’s still too agressive. 21 shots while shooting 33%. Getting blocked 4 times while hardly dishing out after getting to the basket, tells me he’s trying to be too agressive and trying to do it all himself.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Was not happy w/ Reke's play
until later in the game, when he started involving his teammates more. But then toward the end of the game (mid-to-late fourth quarter, I believe), he again became too centered on himself and tried to do too much.
So far I’m not digging his self-reliance mode. The best way he can help the team is by making more plays like the one where he penetrated and made the wrap-around pass to JT. If that happens, he can also make things easier on himself and have a better chance of finishing at the rim.
"We ain't in the takin' prisoners business. We in the killin' Nazi's business...and Cousin, business is a-boomin'."
by PhutureKings on Nov 5, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
It's gonna take time for the game to slow down for him
He’ll start making more of those type of plays as he gets used to the speed of the NBA game.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 5, 2009 5:21 AM PST up reply actions
How about JT's numbers...?
Didn’t see the game, but from the box score it looks like Thompson put the work in. That’s more like what I was expecting to see from him this year.
JT
He had at least 3 offensive rebounds that went straight back up for buckets. JT had a good solid game. He also ran a nice fast break.
by OrangeLazarus on Nov 5, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions
This game was exciting...
until the 4th quarter. the first three quarters we great, ball movement, players not standing around, Good PG play but that all flipped a 180 in the fourth. It seemed that the team went to what the problem was last year and that was everyone was looking to score THEMSELVES. and a veteren team like Atlanta who have been in close situation long enough know how to excute down the stretch then these Young, Inexperience Kings.
Positives i took out, Martin had 11 rebs, Wow he did this last year against Atlanta at home but still pretty damn impressive. JT double double which is something we are used to last year but after Mondays game VS memphis where he got into foul trouble early and was dominated by Z-bo and LIL PAU good to see him bounce back, and 7 assists, who knew that the true passing point guard we all dreamed of having was our PF?
What i like about this team, they are fun, energy and hustle, diving for loose balls, and they put themselves in a position to win the game and thats all i ask for from this team. Later on with experience your gonna see this team make those last second shots, or learn to take over a game and execute plays down the stretch i am very excited to be a Kings fan right now because the future is looking bright.
by JZiadeh on Nov 5, 2009 1:12 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hasn't been mentioned, but Kevin came off one shot holding his ribs
I think he did that a couple of times the previous game too. After that point, he didn’t attack the basket much and came up very short on a couple of jumpers. He wasn’t the same, and that’s about the time Tyreke started forcing it and the offense went away.
Not really important, but just wanted to mention it.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
I noticed it too
I was wondering about it, but I thought I would wait to hear what the team had to say.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's actually the third game he has done that
Something’s got to be bothering him, but they are keeping it quiet.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Could have been his wrist
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That's a good basketball team
The Kings might have pulled that game out if Atlanta had missed some of the tough shots they made in the first three quarters. But when it was close in the 4th, the Hawks had just way too many options, and way too much experience.
Good game overall for the Kings, if a bit frustrating at times.
Desmond Mason - Untied the balloon in Colorado, forged Obama's birth certificate, and ruined the careers of Omri Casspi and Tyreke Evans.
by otis29 on Nov 5, 2009 6:15 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Tons of talent on the floor for the Hawks. But I can see that in our future too.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Am I the only person here....
…who appreciates that this team, while shooting a low percentage, in large part because they don’t turn the ball over 17-20 times a game?
Yes I know there’s a lot of bad shots being taken, but in recent years I saw a lot of bad shots AND turnover’s. if you have a talented player like Artest you can overcome it sometimes, but not always.
This team in my view, with the lack of turnover’s, is going to build onto something once this group becomes more cohesive and coherent.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The lack of turnovers
for a team this young is remarkable. I’m hoping its a trend.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
I wonder if that's because the Kings aren't pushing the pace that fast
Except the pace is 16th overall.
I love what Ailene Voisin had to say about this game:
Considering the way the Kings billed Evans as the rare rookie who would be NBA-ready from the beginning, his slow start to this season was exactly what they didn’t want. He hit 15 of 42 shots in the first four games, tallying just 14 assists against 10 turnovers while being slow to pick up the offensive tempo as Westphal repeatedly asked.
Eh, what? Billed him as the rare rookie who would be NBA ready? Uh, what does that mean? That he literally becomes an All-Star, or a competent NBA player every moment on the floor? That’s funny to me because I dont’ remember the last time the Kings had a G where team’s would put anywhere from 2-4 different guys on a G during the game. Other than Mitch Richmond, but he couldn’t handle the ball.
On the other hand, I’m impressed that Reke hasn’t turned over the ball 5 times a game so far. That says something to me. Yes he takes bad shots, but isn’t that to be expected. (Not everybody can play Philly and Detroit in their 2 games. And, that’s not a knock on Brandon Jennings either. That’s the reality of the competition.)
Reke is being compared against already All-Stars/Hall of Fame caliber G’s. People are thrilled that Jennings had quality outings going against guys like Louis Williams (not an All-Star), and Rodney Stuckey (has that potential but hasn’t been as consistent as he should be).
It’s amusing to me that there are people willing to kill Reke for any little thing. Doesn’t Atlanta get credit for being a 48 win team last year, and having improved during the off-season? (Or the fact that Memphis has improved, somewhat, and ditto with OKC, not to mention the Spurs being who they are, and the Hornets too?)
All I want is consistency. Cuz as we all know, inconsistency be the hobgoblin of little minds.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Poor Ailene
Her Ricky-love is showing through her work. Not even Omri Casspi can satisfy her insatiable needs for imported man meat.
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by section214 on Nov 5, 2009 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Does StR shakes come in any other flavor than dark Spanish Chocolate?
Cuz I like Cookie n Cream/Mint Chip shakes.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Interesting
NBA ready at 19? Imagine that…
Desmond Mason - Untied the balloon in Colorado, forged Obama's birth certificate, and ruined the careers of Omri Casspi and Tyreke Evans.
Wow. Really?
Because everybody, the Maloofs, Jerry Reynolds, and many, many of you have been saying that Evans should start from day one. That he was a man among boys. That he was NBA ready.
So to now be talking about how he’s only 19, and a rookie, and is still learning, which some of us have been saying for a while ( I believe I said repeatedly that people had unrealistic expectations of the kid) when he’s playing poorly seems a trifle convenient.
He hasn’t figured out the whole pass-out-of-a-double-team thing, he’s chucking up too many long balls, and he has not been finishing at the rim as consistently as you would hope. Sounds like exactly what I expected, not because I still wish we had drafted Rubio, because I actually don’t. But because I always expected him to play like a rookie during at least the first part of his rookie season, which is why I questioned, and frankly still question, whether he should be starting.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 5, 2009 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
I believe that the overall context was
that he was NBA ready, but was going to have to learn the point guard position.
As far as whether or not he should be starting, my bet is that he has been consistently better than Udrih in practices and the sum total of games. Udrih has been both awesome and awful this year – typical Beno. It’s not like Evans is starting in front of a top flight NBA point guard.
I fail to see what Tyreke would learn while sitting on the bench that he is not learning by playing. These guys break down film, and the fact that Evans is actually playing makes that film even more valuable and viable.
This team is not winning any more games with Udrih starting than Evans. Udrih has proven himself to be a role playing NBA guard at best. I see no down side to Evans being the starting point guard under these circumstances, with this roster.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
But
I fail to see what Tyreke would learn while sitting on the bench that he is not learning by playing.
You could say the same thing about Donté, or Casspi, or Brockman or Kenny Thomas (though you can’t teach an old dog new tricks).
My main point, though, is not that he’s not our best option to start at his position, because he probably is (The numbers show Beno at being better right now, though). But he was billed by everybody as being ready to go out of the gate, and that clearly is not the case.
He has a lot to learn. I believe he will learn. But I’m seeing exactly what I expected to see from the kid.
There’s a steep learning curve between one year of college ball and the NBA, particularly at point guard. Even when I was pulling for us to draft Rubio, I didn’t expect him to start from day one.
Do I deplore the clanked long distance shots? Do I cringe when he gets blocked or simply misses at the rim? Do I scream at him to pass out of the double team, or to stop pounding the ball at the top of the key? Yes, yes and yes. But I hope he’s learning from these mistakes (though I haven’t seen it yet) and remind myself he’s a rookie. That he’s used to being The Man and doesn’t trust his teammates.
I’m not lobbying for him to sit on the pine. I think playing is probably the best way for him to learn. But starting him against Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Tony Parker et al. seems a lot like throwing him to the wolves.
And I would like one of you Evans bandwagonners to admit that maybe, just maybe, the kid wasn’t as NBA ready as you had thought.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 5, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
He's more NBA ready than I thought
Some teams are already declining to make him beat players like Bibby and Paul off the dribble. They simply don’t want him bullying his way to the basket without help.
Beno Udrih doesn’t get that kind of attention. Yes, Tyreke Evans is adjusting to that. Beno Udrih isn’t even good enough to even make coaches consider that when he’s, oh 27, than anything.
As far as stats go, what difference does it make? You can cherry pick your stats as you want. Beno didn’t even play against OKC!
Tyreke’s stats. Beno’s stats. Beno shoots better. Evans currently has 3.6 assists a game. Beno 3. Evans averages 2.4 Turnover’s, Beno 2 TO’s a game. Evans is currently getting 3 boards a night; Beno 1.5. Evans is getting 1.6 steals a game; Beno is getting less than 1 at .8.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses as players (obviously), but what makes the difference to me is that after 2 good games for Beno suddenly he should start because he plays “like” a point guard.
Playing like a “position” means jack diddly shit in the NBA. (Who was the PG for the Lakers last year?)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He's as NBA ready as I thought
He’s not as NBA ready as I hoped, but that’s being a fan for you.
I picked us to win 21 games, we’re right on schedule.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
The difference between Evans and Donté/Casspi/Brockman/Thomas
is that he is already playing as well as or better than the alternative (Udrih), at least in my opinion. Casspi and Greene are not as good as Noc, and Brockman and Thomas are not as good as JT or Hawes.
Would I like for Evans to be playing better? Yes.
As far as NBA ready? Well, he sure looked NBA ready for three quarters in New Orleans. He sure looked NBA ready for a very short stretch last night.
Perhaps the difference is in defining NBA ready as opposed to rookie of the year candidate. Evans has certainly not earned ROY status to this point, but his play has shown him to be an NBA ready player. He is competing, with some successess and a few more failures.
It is certainly frustrating to watch your “franchise player” produce like the 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th best player on the team. But those are the perils of rooting for a young, young team. Evans will likely get better just in time to hit the “rookie wall,” and then we’ll be wondering why he is regressing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
You bring up an interesting point
I wonder if he isn’t reading his ROY press clippings, and trying to do more then he should. Trying to win the game on his own rather than trust in his teammates more.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I think a big part of it
is that he has always been the guy that has had to win games for his team. It’s going to take him a little while to figure out that he now has teammates that are capable of taking (and perhaps even making) big shots.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
He's never played with this high caliber of teammates across the board
Even his Memphis team had a pretty bare cupboard after a few players had left the team (a few graduated and Rose of course jumped to the NBA).
So, I think that’s playing a larger part here than anything else.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And, for what it's worth
What irritated me was when Reke went up for the shot at the end of the gams vs Atl last night. He had no reason to do anything but dribble out the clock, but he was so frustrated he went up for a shot. And, of course, he missed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And to really address your point
The Kings are currently 2nd in TOV% right now as a team behind Toronto. 5 games in against the competition, the learning curve and what not, I’ll take that.
If the Kings finish in the top 10 in TOV%, I’ll be literally so shocked I might shit all over myself and then eat it because I’m so euphoric.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, man. There are so many things we are doing better so far this year.
- TOs, yes.
- Rebounding, yes.
- Currently 28th D-Rating. Not good, but better than last year’s 30th.
- Currently 14th O-Rating. Good and much better than last season’s 25th.
- Offensive Rebound % 4th!
Linky
Many things to be encouraged about.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 5, 2009 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
Only 3 boards and no scoring
from May and K-9 in combined 13-14 minutes and only 2 minutes for Hoss Brockman. Why not give Brockman a chance?
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Because Hoss can't score worth a damn
That’s why. If Hoss can’t hit his mid range J’s with consistency,and hit shots at a 60% overall clip (along with hitting around 70% from the line), than he won’t find himself in the league for long.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Apparently
Neither can K-9 or May…
Purveyor of Bull Plop
There you go
You already knew the answer. :)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
With the right surrounding personnel
on the floor at the same time you don’t need offense from him. I seem to remember a guy named Rodman that didn’t score anything yet got lots of rebounds and his team did fine. Now, I’m not comparing the Kings current talent to the Bull’s championship team, just stating that with 4 offense minded players on the floor, 1 rebounding bruiser would be a help.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Jason Thompson is not Dennis Rodman
So let’s stop there.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Most encouraging to me
Spencer Hawes “grinding” his way through a game. Not a great statistical performance, but Spencer did not let a lack of involvement on the offensive end (especially in the 1st half) impact his defensive effort. He did a lot of the little things that help you in games, and his body language never reflected his overall minimal involvement on the offensive end. In other words, Hawes played a lot like JT tonight.
Competing when you don’t have your “A” game is something that I have not seen a lot of from Spencer. This was almost nicer to see than his 21/11/7 game the other night.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Well said
I think a lot of Spence’s performance showed up in JT’s numbers indirectly too.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I agree
Spencer doesn’t have anything to apologize for last night. Some nights, the ball is finding you and you have lots of opportunities, other nights the ball goes elsewhere, especially when you are a Center (though of course not a true center) and not a guard.
Spencer played well and had limited offensive opportunities.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
I was really excited to see JT shoot a hook with his left
I know his weakness is anything left, and it was nice to see him try to shoot that shot left handed hook last night.
Still, that was the first advanced post move that didn’t require a jump shot from JT. It’s encouraging he’s developing a post move.
On the other hand, Spencer has far many more moves and showed why last night. (I loved that hook he just shot in the post. Once he makes those consistently, he will be doubled teamed constantly.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah -
JT’s left hand was making me giddy. Dude’s a potential all star if he develops a left hand.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
All-Star?
Me don’t see.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He's the best PF we've had since CWebb went down.
And he’s in his sophomore year.
I don’t think an eventual all-star appearance is out of reach.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 5, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
He's got quite a bit to improve on
Something that has nothing to do with Spencer in the game. (It’s time I put something like that together. It’s clear people are mis-reading the tarot cards with JT & Shawes.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Carlos Boozer has been an all star
And most of it is predicated on his ability to finish at the rim with either hand. JT is bigger, faster and stronger than Boozer. What JT lacks is Boozer’s ability to consistently finish, and that isbecause Boozer (at barely 6’9") avoids being stuffed around the basket by deftly utilizing either hand.
JT could become a better rebounder with experience. He is already showing that he is a gifted passer for a big man. If he learns to move his feet a little more defensively, he will cut down on his fouls. Adding the left hand would complete the package, and tha would make him a potential (you edited that part out, pook) all star.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Good point 214
I did edit that part out. And, maybe I see Spencer being more valuable despite the fact that he has less support at the moment.
But, I hope you’re right, and I guess I see it’s possible. Players do get better as they get older.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
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