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LTTGs view Kings vs Hawks

Well, it wasn’t a good effort in the 4th quarter.  Most of the team seemed to have their heads down even though the game was still close until very late.  It felt a little too much like last year to me.  No one seemed to want the ball (or know what to do with it) at the end except Kevin Martin – who was mostly being doubled – and the rest of the team stood on their hands too much waiting for him to make a play.  The derth of energy and confidence at times was upsetting.  Even Casspi seemed to suffer from it.  I think some it sprung from the lack of clearly executed plays, which was also strange as they seemed to be on the road to straightening that out against Memphis.  It was a definite backslide team trust wise.  That truth is that clean execution was missing most of the game, it was very clunky – the hawks just waited until the end to exploit it.

 

A theme through out the game was the constant lay-up drills the Hawks ran on just about everyone.  I believe they scored 66 points in the paint. (cough cough)  I’m all for JT and Hawes staying out of foul trouble – but maybe use a few hard ones at judicious times especially when you have a few available late.  Noce and Brockman seemed to have no trouble with that and I was frankly surprised when the Brockness was quickly pulled after a nice hard foul which seemed to discourage (I believe it was) Josh Smith.  I’m not removing the blame from the guards as many of those point paints came from Atlanta guards but our guys generally were (except for some fast breaks) right with them.  It then becomes the big men’s responsibility to lay in a little pain.

The hawks do look like a team that has been playing together for a few years now and know how to execute very efficiently.  They did the same thing to Portland last night - So there’s that.  It did seem like the Kings were the more tired team at the end which was puzzling.

You saw it, in the end we just didn't get loose balls or make plays that were there for the making and taking.

 

A few specifics:

Kevin Martin (bad wrist) had an excellent game as you know, 11 rebounds from your 2, that’s admirable but you wonder what the total rebound numbers would have been without that.   Kevin played very well, Beno played well and JT played pretty well.

 

I thought JTs final numbers were a little deceiving as at least half of his (8) offensive rebounds were off several of his own point blank misses.  I’d have liked to see him dunk it a time or three rather than those soft lay-ups.  He hit his FTs which was great to see. 

 

Tyreke certainly had some good moments, but he also looked like a rookie-not-quite-sure-what-to-do on many possessions.  They blocked his lay-ups four times and he waaay over dribbled on several possessions ala JSalmons mixed with some chucking late.   He’s still finding his way, I hope its not That way.

 

Noce started strong then disappeared.  That may be unfair; he stopped making any plays though, those rebounds he was getting early turned into off the fingertips to Hawks. 

 

Hawes was pretty busy with Horford all night and they mostly cancelled each other out.  A bit of a victory for Hawes I suppose though Horford came out ahead slightly.  I’m not sure why he didn’t drag Horford out and hit a few jumpers – but perhaps Horford did to Hawes what Hawes did to him.  Spence has got to take a few of those shots out there though, miss or make. Its his advantage and he’s got to try to exploit it.

 

As Tokyo just pointed out - I also thought the substitution patterns were pretty strange.  Casspi makes a play and is pulled etc...

 

Jamal Crawford did whatever he wanted out there and we had no answer for him.  Like last night against the Blazers he was the difference in the game.  That final weapon a good team needs.


 

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Hawks are a good team

I think we would have beaten a lot of other teams with our play tonight.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Nov 5, 2009 1:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

What I've seen....

Only seen about half of each game, but I’ve seen a few things repeat themselves in each game. Fortunately, they’re correctable things, so hopefully we’ll see improvement.

Transition defense. It’s one thing for another team’s guards to beat you down court from time to time, but it’s a problem when their bigs are doing it as well.

Defensive rebounding. ’Nuff said.

Finishing at the rim. Granted, some of these shots are in traffic and/or contested, but a lot of time they’re not.

Iso defense. This seems to be more of a system issue than an individual issue. Seems like every team has the same wing iso play: clear a side out and let the man attack the rim. From what I’ve seen, most teams defend that by sliding a man over outside of the lane, usually at free throw line depth. We don’t seem to do this- the defender is left on an island to defend one on one, with any weak side help arriving too late (when it arrives at all).

The good news is that I’ve already seen improvement from game one to now, so I have hope!

Please consider the environment before reading this signature.

by outrider on Nov 5, 2009 8:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

As TZ said in his post

The hawks were making thier jumpers all night, often with a hand in thier face (sometimes not) which was discouraging.
I guess my biggest complaint was the lack of execution on offense. The lack of recognizable plays a little too often and at important moments. In the 4th qtr for instance they should be able to execute a couple of Plays that they know work and have some confidence in. Maybe they tried, like I said, it didn’t seem anyone was to eager for the ball.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 5, 2009 8:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think you're seeing

natural, inconsistent, painful growth on offense.

Any give offensive possession can go a lot of ways on this team, I think the execution sucks because no one really knows what works and what doesn’t, and we’re trying lots of different things on the fly.

Last night, in the 4th quarter, we looked like a pickup team playing against a team that was organized. I’m not saying that’s bad coaching or anything like that, but like you said, the Hawks have been together a while and have some trust built up, we’re just starting to walk down that road.

Patience, patience, patience :)

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Nov 5, 2009 8:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

People forget that Hawks had these same problems just 2 years ago

Mike Bibby helped them a lot.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 5, 2009 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The substitutions were questionable

But, for the last 5:15 of the game, the only players to shot where Martin & Tyreke, except for one missed tip by Thompson & one missed 3pt shot by Beno,with 18 seconds to go.

And, with 4 mins to go, PW pulled Hawes and left Mason in the game. We were neck & neck the entire game with starters. But, putting Mason on Joe J. didn’t work, and after pulling Hawes, Horford started scoring and JT got shut out.

With our size advantage, I would have gone with JT & Spencer & the 3 guards like we did in the 3rd. Let Joe J. get his points, but not let Horford & Crawford beat us. Defense is still our weakness, so substituting for defensive purposes while hurting our offense, was a bad decision. I’m not blaming PW for the lose, we probably would have lost anyways, but he needs to put the best 5 players on the court at the end of games and live with the consequences. Later on in the season, when the players start understanding how to play together, then he can impress us with his strategical brillance..

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 5, 2009 12:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

through odd twists of circumstance I ended up at the game Row Q Sec 113

The stuff I agree with:
Tyreke played well, getting to the rim often. His jumper was on in the fist half back to normal in the second half. He took a lot of shots, defended well for the most part, controlled tempo well.
Beno played well, involved his teammates well, and was much more comfortable than lost. His effort to run an offense and be a quaterback is back to where it was two seasons ago (pre-MLE signing). Bueno for Beno.
Kevin Martin, JT and Spencer all performed as well or better than expected.

The substitutions were a bit erratic but not poorly so. Brockman came in, did nothing to quiet the athletic frontcourt of Atlanta, missed a wide open 10 footer and then came out. It was ok. Omri was active but out of sync like the rest of the bench. Overall difficult match up for this team.

Atlanta is one of the most athletically gifted NBA squads. Jamal Crawford has been given free reign to score. Defensively he and Mike Bibby are in heaven as they have Josh Smith, Al Horford and Joe Johnson to cover.

Joe Johnson is a bona fide stud in the Dwyane Wade, Brandon Roy mold.: all very strong, highly skilled, players. A technician on offense who asserts himself as he needs to. Defensively he is a presence. Carried his team to the victory last night. Just when the Kings were 8 points ahead, it was JoeJohn time and boom! Hawks up by 5, game over.

On the Kings side what hasn’t been mentioned:
On the timeouts, Paul Westphal huddles with his players, not with the damn circle of coaches at the foul line we have seen the last few seasons. All heads turn to Westphal and they all pay attention. I didn’t see anyone watching the Royal Court Dancers, bobbing to the music, etc. Coach Westphal has the collective ear of this team.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 5, 2009 2:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Good to hear. I think he got the ear of the team after the game also.

For an easy going guy, he seems to be taking the loses very hard during the post game press conferences.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 5, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There isn't an honest coach in the NBA that won't be bothered by it

On the other hand, in private PW isn’t probably as concerned as some may think. I remember the story about Rick Adelman being so obsesses after losses he would walk around with his wife for several hours saying nothing steaming.

So, coaches obsess about this stuff. It’s why they’re good at it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 5, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

another thing about Tyreke

he went through that period when he got called for two consective palming violations. It seemed to stiffle his drives to the basket.

by betweentheeyes on Nov 5, 2009 8:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I watched the tape last night

his game really went south. He was 1 of 7 (layup) after that I believe.

As to the rest of the game, I guess the end of it left a sour taste and I was more negative then they deserved but they did give up on executing plays in the last 3 minutes.
Its an oxymoron, just when a team needs to get more efficient they often get desperate and become much less efficient and play one-on-one crap ball.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 6, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More like the last 6 minutes

Joe J. went at Omri on 3 consequtive possessions and scored 2 out of the 3 times. The third time he missed in low but ATL got the rebound and eventually scored. PW pulled Omri for Mason & that’s when it really went bad. Joe J. scored 2 possesions later on Mason, while our offense got stagnant. Then instead of pulling Mason, PW pulled Hawes and left Mason in, and we never recovered. We finished the game with a small lineup to match ATL’s. But, our best lineup during the entire game was Hawes, JT, Martin, Tyreke & Beno which we never saw again after the 3rd quarter. PW was countering ATL’s lineups instead of making them counter ours.

I’m not against CounterPunching, but that works better when you have the talent on the bench to do it. ATL has the talent, but we don’t. Our best advantage was JT’s and Spencer’s size over ATL’s bigs, and our guards who can score vs. ATL’s scorers. We’re not going to win based on defense, at least not this early in the season. Maybe in Jan. when we’ve had a couple of months to figure out how to play PW’s defense, but not after one month. The fact that we’re giving up over a 108 pts per game should be proof of that.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 6, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

right

for now we need to put games away late on offense.

Not sure that will be possible now with KM out.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Nov 6, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thought you were a little too tough on the team LTTG

Mason’s insertion made no sense and when he came in the offense basically died. However, when PW put Mason in we had effectively already lost the game. I agree that mid 4th quarter the team collectively forgot how to play together and desperation reigned. We got beat by the better team but in my homer view it wasn’t so much that a good team beat a bad team so much as it was an experienced team beat a young team.

I was surprised by how well ATL played. Of the 5 teams we’ve played so far, the Spurs and the Hawks are clearly the best we’ve seen. On one hand we can take some consolation in the tough way we’ve played them, but on the other hand, they execute at a level that the Kings are simply not capable of playing at yet.

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When Mason came in at the 6:15 mark we were down by 1

When he left at the 3:19 mark we were down by 7. But, your comments are true

an experienced team beat a young team
they execute at a level that the Kings are simply not capable of playing at yet

But this was a winnable game for the young inexperienced team, if they got hot offensively, but not if they tried to play shutdown defense.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 6, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I could accept this criticism in a couple of years (maybe even next year)

But, this year? I think it’s too early to be expecting veteran execution out of a young rebuilding squad.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Nov 6, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You are right HT

I think it was a jumper by Joe Johnson or Josh Smith and I remembered it as the time as Mason came in but whatever, it put us down by 7 and at that time I felt the game was out of reach for us even though there was time for us to win it with a run and a little D. Mason clearly killed whatever offensive flow we still had and provided no D.

I thought ATL put the game away when they had to and we had no answer for them. Off the top of my head I think there were 36 lead changes up to that point. We stayed in the game through grit and hustle and individual performance but in my view we have yet to see the Kings play well as a team. On any given night the worst teams in the league can beat the best and do but the level of sustained consistent team play just isn’t there.

If the team hasn’t started to gel by the All – Star break then the early criticism will be justified and I’m not talking about winning games. They are still learning to play with each other, learn Westphal’s game plans, adjust to playing at this level etc. Just a little early for the criticism is all I’m saying.

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Nov 6, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gelling by the All-Star break would be tremendous progress indeed

There is no way I’m going to criticize the 3rd youngest team in the NBA for not picking up a new coaches offensive or defensive systems one month after training camp. The fact that they were in the NO & ATL games and won the Memphis game, is remarkable. A testiment to their heart and effort.

And, I have no problem with the way Tyreke played the 4th quarter. He continued to drive & score, and he made his jumpers early so there way no reason for him not to try to hit jumpshots late. I just wish he made a more concerted effort to get JT & Spencer the ball.

The only criticism I have relates to PW. I don’t like his substitutions. Specificaly, putting Mason in for defensive purposes, and taking out Hawes with 4 minutes to go, just to match ATL’s smaller lineup. Especially, when our best lineup was Spencer, JT & the 3 guards. Which PW never went back to after they got us an 8 pt lead in the 3rd quarter.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Nov 7, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs


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