Sacramento's Sucking Defensive Void: What's the Problem?
by Ziller on Dec 14, 2009 1:30 PM PST
in Commentary
74 comments
With eyes coated glassy from gimlets of joy here in points west, there remains one striking, sucking void in the burgeoning success of the Sacramento Kings: the defense remains absolutely awful. The world's worst a year ago, the Kings defense again ranks among the dregs of the league. The real problem for armchair analysts like me is that there is no easy answer.
The team's shooting defense sucks. The team doesn't create many turnovers. The team can't rebound regularly on the defensive end. The team fouls too much.
In every aspect of defense, the Kings are worse than par. Sacramento has stayed afloat (or exceeded expectations, more like it) based on a booming offense which has rung bells from McKinley to Kilimanjaro. (Well, it's currently 7th in the league. Without all but five games of Kevin Martin. I heard at least some decorative plates rattle.) The defense has attempted to again sink this team, like a malformed anchor of youthful blindness or community distraction. (Optimists, still here, will grasp for the former.)
Rebounding is easy to diagnose: our defensive rebounders suck. Jason Thompson has improved on that end, and in total is a fine, fine rebounder. He could do well to boost his defensive rebounding more, but he's not so much a problem as a concern. Spencer Hawes is a concern, absolutely. His defensive rebounding (21 percent last year, less than 18 percent now) is abysmal -- Mikki Moore level, in fact. This isn't blame so much as observation: Hawes has devolved as a rebounder, and he was subpar for his position and size already. Now he's atrocious. Moving on out of reach of the cyanide, Andres Nocioni has been a sink, of sorts -- his 9 percent overall rebounding rate is Salmonsesque (not good) and below the sinewy, frantic Omri Casspi (nearly 10 percent). Donte Greene has not been rebounding well, either. Kenny Thomas and Jon Brockman are champions, thank you.
Turnovers fit into the team defense conceit we'll discuss more later, and fouls split time between there (later) and this easy-to-grasp statement: Jason Thompson has really got to calm down on the fouls. Brockman and Thomas actually foul more frequently than J.T., and The Show actually isn't far behind, but as Thompson plays so many minutes (necessarily, because he is awesome) his matter most. It's not fair, but the cover of Good Housekeeping ain't free, Holmes.
Shooting defense. A riddle wrapped in prosciutto. Rancid prosciutto bartered from the Slovenian black market, in our example. (Apologies, underground meat salesmen of Celje. I mean no offense. I simply take the simplest path to WTF I can find, and today that route crossed your unfortunately, smelly bridge.) Shooting defense is really tricky to unfurl, even at the team level. On an individual basis, yes, guh, muy difficulto. But at the team level, it's still tricky.
Shooting defense, to me, can be broken off into two branches: shot distribution and actual shot defense. In other words, what locations do your opponents shoot from, and how well do they hit them?
Hoopdata.com has made serious strides in public availability of this sort of data this season. Truly fantastic, in my book, which is the one you're reading. I can give you the last page right now, if you're the type who reads that. But first,
SPOILER ALERT
The Kings' opponent shot distribution ranks 15th; that is, if opponents shot league average against the Kings in every shot zone, the Kings would have the 15th ranked shooting defense. But the Kings have the 22nd ranked shooting defense, because the Kings defense actually underperforms from average; that is, the Kings let opponents shot better than they ought to.
END SPOILER ALERT
First, shot distribution. Do opponents get lots of so-called easy shots -- near the rim, threes -- against the Kings?
Sacramento is middle-of-the-pack in the frequency of opponent attempts at the rim ... a bit surprising really. (We'll come back to interior defense in a moment.) No team gives up more non-layup/dunk shots inside the paint than the Kings, though. The Kings allow the sixth lowest rate of "midrange" 10-15 foot shots, and the 10th lowest rate of long twos. (Long twos are the worst shot in basketball, by category. More specifically, long twos by Chris Duhon are the worst shot in basketball.) The Kings give up the 7th lowest rate of threes, which is a positive.
So, essentially, Kings opponents end up taking a lot of short jumpers, compared to the league at large.
But when those opponent do get to the rim, well. Damn.
The Kings have the second-worst shot defense at the rim. There's that bad interior defense peeking out. (Out of where, well, this is a family blog, let's just move on.) This can potentially be attributed to having the league's fourth-worst block rate, and also, anecdotally, not being terribly good in transition.
Moving out, the Kings actually defend short jumpers (5-10 feet) really well, like, "third best in the league" well. From 10-15 feet, Kings opponents don't hit too much, with Sacramento having the league's eighth best shot defense from there. The Kings rank 27th in shot defense from 16-23 feet (ick), but know that 16-23 foot jump shot shooting percentages tend to vacillate wildly. (Proof: Tyreke Evans is shooting 48 percent from there this year. If that lasts, I'll eat Truck Robinson's sweatband.)
The Kings don't give up a ton of three-point attempts, but they do give up a ton of makes, with the 9th-worst shot defense from beyond the arc. Opponents shot 36.5 percent from three against Sacramento, which is the equivalent of shooting 54.7 percent from two. It's not nearly as bad as last year (where opponents actually shot better than 40 percent from downtown, if you can believe it). But it's still not good.
So there you have it. The Kings have an average opponent shot distribution, but let them make way too many attempts near the rim and from behind the arc.
Now, the big question ... whoooooooo? I can't pretend to know that answer, though I will put on the record that 82games.com reports that opponent guards and centers haven't shot too terribly well against the Kings this season, but forwards have. Small forward has been the most sour defensive spot, by this source. Andres Nocioni and Omri Casspi account for 67 percent of the team's minutes at the position. It's hard to figure this with any certainty (without more data, like game-by-game, possession-by-possession data), especially considering that Paul Westphal uses such varied line-ups and Jim Eyen has installed a couple of zone schemes the team turns to often enough. It's really impossible to lay any blame on the shooting defense on any one, two or three players given the info I have. I think we can recuse the center (Hawes, who has played 56 percent of the team's center minutes, and against whom centers are shooting far worse than they have against other Kings with minutes at the position, namely Thompson), but no one else at this point. (Guard penetration affects shooting percentages across the board -- we can't blame Nocioni if a guard gets past Evans or Udrih and forces rotations which leave Nocioni's man with airspace.)
I have thrice begun a paragraph in which I blame a player thoughtfully given the information I have, but ... nope. Wouldn't do it. I can't say for sure, and I'd rather be silent than wrong.
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They aren't the same person V
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
We need a center that will board...
I’ve made the comment previously that Hawes is not a starter. As a 3rd big he’d be ok getting fill in minutes at both 4&5. He has some offensive and defensive skill down low, but boards terribly. He’s not nearly the 3 point threat that he thinks he is, shooting a miserable .233. Saturday night he was only on the floor about 4 minutes in the first half having picked up three fouls in the blink of an eye. I think the Sean May expirement at starter was as much about getting Spencer’s attention as anything else, but it didn’t keep his attention for long. In the short term maybe start JT @ 5 with K-9 (woof) at 4 and bring Hawes and Brockman in as backups? Thoughts?
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Lacking a defender in the paint.
A good post defender (such as Dalembert and Okafor) would improve our defensive rankings. If an opponent knows he can drive to the rim at will then most likely the defender know,s which will cause him to back off in order to guard against the drive. This leaves shooters open with out a hand in their face.
A shot blocker in the paint will allow our players to play their man closer causing their percentage to drop. Only bad part is that these big men who can block usually lack offense, but I’d take the presence of a shot blocker for a drop in our offensive efficiency anyday. (as long as its not a cliff dive)
JT & Hawes aren't terrible shot blockers but he rest of the team isn't much help
Among all players Spencer is 31st and JT is 43rd in Blocks Per Game. Our next best shot blocker is Donte at 64th but he’s playing a lot of 2, and isn’t getting into position to block that often. Noc is 117th and Casspi is 128th, so we could use some help from the others.
Among Centers Spencer is below average at 21st. Among Forwards JT is 16th., Noc is 60th & Omri is 65th. But, when you take in PT and adjust to 48 minutes, Greene is 41st, Spencer is 42nd, JT is 65th, & Casspi is 119th.
So, as you pointed out
these big men who can block usually lack offense
And although I’d like to see Spencer and JT move up the rankings 10-15 spots, I wouldn’t like to see an offensive stiff replace either one of them for 1 or 2 blocks more a game. The difference from 31st place for JT and 3rd place is 1 blk per game. And, the difference between Spencer moving from 21st to 3rd is 1.07 blks per game.
What the team needs is for the forwards to up their weak side help and increase their blks.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Blocks are overrated
I think the key TZ was getting to was defensive rebounds and of course defensive technique at the rim when they do get there. I think per TZ we’re allowing a ‘middle of the pack’ number of shots inside – which is acceptable for this season. Its the second chance points, which I don’t think he directly addressed, that hurts (?).
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
Let me rephrase
Blocks are good but the other stuff is more fundamentally important.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
with
I got the same read lttg.
This team needs to rebound because they are lacking on overall defense.
For me, this is a young team that is still learning the new system of a new coach. As a Geoff Petrie made squad offense is easy: they can all shoot and pass with the best of them (Thomas and Brockman excepted). Defense takes familiarity, experience and effort. The Kings have effort. Defense is certainly more of a frontcourt concern than a backcourt one. The frontcourt is shallow at the 4 and 5. They do well with what they have – in comparison; Minny has 4 guys listed at C and Kevin Love and another 7 footer in Pecherov (listed as a PF) – 6 guys (and the 11 guys they have to play point guard because it is important!) and they looked awful against the Kings.
Defense needs more than height and bulk. Phoenix , NYKnicks and the Warriors chose not to bother, the Clippers are the Clippers
Defense also promotes teamwork. If you are only going to win by outscoring everyone and your name is not Stephen John Nash, then your players just take turns scoring (see Warriors, Clippers, Grizzlies, Wizards, Al Jefferson). I see this Kings team tightening their defense once they learn how. They just aren’t there yet.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
Great on the facts
But as to the ending
thrice begun a paragraph in which I blame a player thoughtfully given the information I have, but … nope. Wouldn’t do it. I can’t say for sure, and I’d rather be silent than wrong.
Weak
But, since I on the other hand don’t have a reputation to protect, have no qualms about pointing fingers.
What I have observed and which I believe correlates with your numbers, is that Noc tends to play off his man too much. He leaves to double and sometimes triple, and leaves his man to rebound before the shot is taken, which opens up a passing lane to his man.
Now, in Noc’s defense, I don’t know if PW has designated him to be the guy to leave his man and double Or if he is the one who made the mistake when 2 guys go to double, and end up with a triple and 2 opponents left open. But, I have got to assume that when he plays off his man too far, or leaves his man to rebound before the shot goes up, that he has blown the defensive coverage.
As to
The Kings have the second-worst shot defense at the rim. There’s that bad interior defense peeking out.
I won’t argue with your analysis on how the fact that the Kings are one of the worst Shot Blocking teams in the league, probably contributes to this. But, I’d like to point to one other possible cause, Pick & Roll Defense. I think most of our bigs with the exception of Hawes and Brockman, defend the pick and roll as badly as any bigs in the league. Add, to that the fact that Tyreke isn’t the best at defending it, and Beno is pretty slow and can’t recover when he goes over the top, and you end up with easy baskets at the rim or close in at a very high rate. I think that Sergio & Hawes are the only duo, with the BBIQ and speed to defend the pick & roll, but teams don’t seem to run it against them. I think that the scouting report is out that running the pick & roll against Tyreke & JT, is a good opportunity for an easy lay up.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 14, 2009 2:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
agree with "Weak" assessment
For a sports blogger to say “I’d rather be silent than wrong” is like a dude telling Megan Fox (cue the photo) “I’d rather not mess up our friendship”. It was hard to read.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Hmm... Weak?
I don’t know that what TZ is saying is weak on conclusion. This is complicated and not pointing out the causes of weak team defense as attributable to just one player, when it isn’t, is valid.
Perhaps weak would, instead, be consistently ignoring the black hole of a favored player and, instead of acknowledging that fact, respond by pointing out that player’s one area of defensive adequacy and then hightlighting the weaknesses of others who are overall much better on defense as a response to a thoughtful evaluation… Perhaps that would qualify as weak?
I should add
You make some very valid points on pick & roll… I just have a hard time with defending the indefensible.
Sorry I didn't add a smiley face to my weak comment
It wasn’t really a criticism. I meant it in the vein of the Martin is “Soft” type of comment.
I think that I also pointed out that you can’t really point at Noc when he leaves his man, as being a validation of the information deduced by the stats. Because no one knows what PW’s defensive schemes are. And, it may be Noc’s responsiblity under those schemes to leave his man and double.
But, nice retort in defense of our leader.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Sorry if I got prickly
I know TZ doesn’t always stand up for himself, though he is more than capable.
If he got into a pissing contest with everybody
He’d just be me. Who’d want to be that?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
And maybe Howard Stern.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 14, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
And/or Aileen Voisin
Digging your sig, by the way.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
LPA
Brought to you by Title IX.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 14, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like Pookey has a lot of potential fans
Just need to find all the sado-masochistic cross-dressing ugly old men that don’t know how to write.
That's mean
I approve of your message. Although, I don’t cross dress. Nothing in a female size would fit me.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Just funnin' :)
I was really too easy and hard to resist putting the exclamation mark on that thread…
The fatter you are the bigger a target you make :)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Zing!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Hmmm, I have a rookie in mind . . . .
Seriously, even just another big body worthy of minutes would improve things. I think they go at our frontline guys because we have so little depth. Thats the scouting book on us.
Casspi starting by January would help in the rebounding dept as well. Has he earned it? I don’t know (as much as I like him) and I hate to decrease Noce’s value right now. I also don’t remember seeing Casspi give up a lot of 3s but have no stats to back that feeling up.
Donte’ is improving on many things, I wish he could add rebounding to his list – though its asking a lot right now. He’s really really bad in that dept. I’d guess- though TZ didn’t include those numbers.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I agree that the opponents strategy is to go at JT and Hawes early
Odds are one or both will be in foul trouble halfway thru the first quarter and then who do we have who can even remotely guard the rim?
The band-aide would appear to be
More minutes (36 combined?) for K-9 and Brockman
[Insane, I can’t believe I called for more K-9, how times do change. As long as I can close my eyes when they shoot]
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
The tough part of that equation
Is who the minutes come from? If you take them from JT, you are diminishing the very impressive offensive improvement the squad has made this season. If you take them from Spencer, you’re really just moving out good defense for more good defense.
It’s a conundrum, that’s for certain.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
I don't know what else to do
except limit JT to 36 max (I’ve never been convinced that performance / stats increases past that number of minutes anyway) and Hawes to 30, which though does replace hawes’ pretty good D with more of the same – increases defensive rebounds.
And beg the wings to keep trying harder.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm going to vote for
A) Lots of young players
B) New coach who is slowing improving the system
C) Lots of bad habits from years of lousy coaches
Things are better than they were last year and my guess is that they will continue to improve. If they have not by the end of the year, we may have to look at significant position changes. But no panic yet.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Agreed...
The last couple of years, the defense and rebounding have seemed sooooo bad, but this year, the team is more inconsistent than anything. All three rookies are willing rebounders, and the team as a whole has had stretches of inspired defense. And while that certainly doesn’t solve the problem, it seems as if they are starting to find their way.
As mentioned above, I do think this team needs a 3rd big – preferrably a center. I like Hawes, but I question whether he will ever have the requisite skills for a starting NBA center. I don’t advocate getting Okafor or Dalambert – too much money for too little return – but either a trade or the draft (next year’s is full of frontcourt players) could really help the interior play.
"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."
Agree as well
As bad as the pick-and-roll defense is this season, it’s light years better than last year IMO. If and when Tyreke figures that part of the defensive game out, it will help quite a bit. And the team defensive concept is bound to improve over time, with improved tutelage.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Personally
I think the fact that the Kings aren’t rated 30th in defensive efficiency is an improvement. Yes, defense is a problem, but who is surprised by that?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Doesn't this have to be Kevin Martin's fault some how?
Are you sure we weren’t 100th in the league after 5 games and have just clawed our way up to our current 26th? < /snark
Some likely culprits:
- Slow rotations on the interior(interior player leaves his man to stop the ball and his man is left open for the dunk).
- Poor pick and roll D. (as mentioned above).
- Poor transition D.
I’d also like to agree with Pookey. 26th is a nice improvement over 30th. I hope we can continue to improve and then add a nice big thru the draft.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
What people forget was that the Kings were at the level they were 2 years ago with Reggie Theus & Ron Artest
What does that tell you about how many strides this young team has made with a new coaching staff and learning a new league (in many cases)?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
It is Kevin Martins Fault
I am the biggest fan of trading Martin..we need a defender and we need to have his contract gone to sign our young studs in 2-3 years.
In all sencerity..Add Kings bigs get out of position trying to block shots that they have no business trying to block, This allows the other team too many OR’s and easy put backs.
Martin and Noce for anybody that can play d for 3 more years
It might have something to do with pace
It might be interesting to see what our best quarters were and what the pace was in that quarter.
Seems like we have three speeds: run, run and pass, and pound and stand. I like it when we play the first two and we seem to be more effective, but the starters tend to play slower. Maybe that’s why we’ve only outscored an opponent four times in 22 games in the first quarter.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 14, 2009 3:42 PM PST reply actions
Interior D + no standout defender
Reke has often been cited as the teams best defender already…which says alot more about the Kings than it does about Evans i’m afraid
Just think of it from the opponents point of view
JT + Hawes covering the paint = i’m going st8 at ’em
its the pick and roll
Tyreke and the PG crew suck at defending it, and JT and Hawes are trying to avoid fouls. So either guys are shooting 3s with space or driving to the lane and nobody stops them at the rim.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Dec 14, 2009 4:03 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I blame Spencer more for lousy show on pick and roll defense
and sometimes it looks like JT commits to rebound positioning more than being fully commited to defense.
Weak side blocks ok…but they’re the reason the perimeter has troubles…nobody’s scared to go to the rack on this frontline…so perimeter sags off because nobody has their back…other side shoots ball….and that explains the behind the arc defense.
by getPGwithbounce on Dec 14, 2009 4:32 PM PST reply actions
I actually think most of the 3 pt D
has to do with perimeter defenders leaving thier guys, rotating in on double teams. I think we’re doing this to under orders to help keep opposing bigs from the rim.
This has to do with a few things: JTs tendancy to pick up careless fouls and a general lack of brute leg strength by either of our bigs and generally mediocre technique. This also leads to a loss of some defensive rebounds as players are being left to roam and secure loose balls while two of our defenders are essentially ocupying the same rebounding space.
I think the effort on 3 pt D, which IMO is essentially all that is required most of the time in that area to keep things under control, is there and is reflected in the lower number of 3 pt attempts allowed.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
I have no idea who is responsible for our defensive breakdowns but I have to love
“eyes coated glassy from gimlets of joy” and wonder whether those glassy eyes are coming from no sleep for a new dad or you know,……….uhm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,gimlets? All I know for sure is there is a lot of stuff that nobody tells you when you and your wife find out you are about to be new parents.
For those gimlets alone I have to give TZ a well deserved rec.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Ziller is top notch at putting out content on our Kings
…and providing his own creative slant on things, but I see a little too much reliance on statistical analysis. Maybe I am delusional, but I like to think I can watch a game and tell you who’s doing what, who can play, who can’t, without ever consulting a box score.
Now onto our defensive: Spencer Hawes has no excuse regarding his rebounding. Woeful to marginal at best. His best friend is Brockman. Ask Brockness, what do you do to get boards? There is a lack of anticipation, lack of timing, a lack of positioning, maybe even a lack of fire, in addition to lack of strength that hinders Spencer’s rebounding totals. He is 7’1" and mobile, and plays in the key. We need him to get more O and D boards. Period.
When Spencer gets a tough rebound in traffic, it is almost shocking. No data regression tables are needed to tell me that.
I should add Spencer was not a rebounder coming out of college. So long-term, we can’t expect a player to do something is incapable of doing. For now, he is young enough and skilled enough to hope he can get better.
Now our defense as a whole: our perimeter guys are forced to drop down to help on post guys a lot, leaving passing lanes open, cutters on the move, and spot shooters on the weak side. Our weak post defense seems to be our biggest issue, as I see it. I have to point the finger at Hawes. JT is a hacker in the post, and gets out of position too. PW resorts to zone defense ocassionally due to our problems stopping inside players.
Defensive is also about energy, being active. Omri does not play textbook defense, but his energy level is really good, as is challenge on shots. Same for Tyreke. Same for Donte. Noccioni plays a lot of fake defense. I know he has reputation as tough and scrappy guy, but he gets beat a lot. I have to think our overall defense will tick up once Omri becomes the starting SF, gains more experience defending the best SFs, and takes more of Noce’s minutes.
Last thought is K-Mart is a slight upgrade over Beno guarding either guard spot. So there is a little hope there. I don’t see any profound improvement in our defense and rebounding in near future without change in personnel through drafts or trades or FAs. Good news is if our offense continues to hum along, we can get by with a sub-par defense and still win games.
Both of those guys tend
to want to DO something with a ball they haven’t even secured yet and lose them on a fumble.
I’d start there. Don’t do anything except wrap your arms around it and wait for traffic to move away some.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
I would add
grab the ball, get those elbows out and lay some wood on anyone that wants to try to steal it away.
With Spence it really isn't about that...
IMHO, the lack on Spencer’s rebounding is due to one overriding fact and one fact only. He doesn’t like contact. He doesn’t like to bang. Guys that like bang down low are great rebounders. Guys that aren’t suck at it.
If Spencer loved the contact as much as Brockman he would be in there scrapping and fighting for every loose ball. He just doesn’t like the contact and avoids it.
I think
We are spending a lot of time on Hawes, but I think our wings do such a terrible job of keeping players out of the lane. I see Hawes have to leave his man so often to put himself in between a driving guard or wing, only to have no one rotate to cover his man, just to have the driving player dump the ball to his man and a dunk happens. Our team defense is weak, thus the amount of lay-ups that are scored against us. No one short of Mutumbo at his prime could defend the rim against how many players get into the lane. I don’t see opposing centers abusing Hawes one-on-one down low, I think our wings need to do a MUCH better job of stopping the ball.
by MichaelMack on Dec 14, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
The reason people look at numbers is to augment or enhance what they see on the court.
Since you don’t use numbers, you only have your viewpoint to rely on.
Spencer is generally the only guy the coaches will leave one-on-one versus a legit post player. Did you see the MN game? Spencer started on Jefferson, and got no help while he was in. Jefferson torched him and got him in foul trouble. While he was out, every big man we had defend Jefferson was given significant amounts of help. What does that tell you? Despite your bias, the coaches believe Spencer is the best post defender on the team, of guys they want to give minutes to.
Regarding rebounding, I agree Spencer can get better, but he’s also the guy generally that is asked to come help stop penetration to the rim. By always being the guy stepping up, you’re not going to be as good a defensive rebounder. Both Spencer and JT have lots of work to do on defensive rebounding, but its not hopeless.
Brockman is a good rebounder because he’s asked to do nothing else, and he works his ass off. He’s too small to step up and be a help defender or defend anyone that has an actual offensive game, so he’s always on the opponent’s worst big, and just asked to box out and rebound.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
Brockman covered Love
Brockman is a good rebounder because he’s asked to do nothing else, and he works his ass off. He’s too small to step up and be a help defender or defend anyone that has an actual offensive game, so he’s always on the opponent’s worst big, and just asked to box out and rebound.
He covered Kevin Love in the Minnesota game. He generally covers smaller PFs whose primary focus is on offensive rebounding and who play close to the basket, but they’re not all stiffs. Love did score a couple of outside shots on Brockman, but he took away his rebounding for the most part.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 15, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Spencer is deserving of more respect than most people give him
as to your comment
he’s also the guy generally that is asked to come help stop penetration to the rim. By always being the guy stepping up, you’re not going to be as good a defensive rebounder
I think most everyone is asked to step up and stop penetration, but Spencer has the BBIQ to recognized it and reacts faster. One of the reason that I believe this, is because as the helper, he seldom gets help on his man.
As to rebounding, this has been brought up a number of times, but I’m going to say it again. Because Spencer plays so often from the high post as a distributor, he has less opportunity to offensive rebound than the average Center in the league. But, he does need to improve his positioning. He ends up under the basket too often.
JT gets a lot of recognition for his rebounding, but JT is averaging 5.5 minutes more PT than Spencer. If you adjust their rebounding to 48 mins. , JT ends up as the 37th best rebounder in the league with a 12.9 rebound total, and Spencer ends up 56th with a 10.9 rebound total. A 2 rebound difference isn’t much considering JT is considered a good rebounder and Spencer is considered a bad onel. As a side note, Omri is 100th, Noc is 115th, and Tyreke is 132nd. So, it looks like everyone needs to step up their rebounding effort, except Tyreke.
One final thought about rebounding. Under PW and with Tyreke running the point, JT & Spencer’s roles have changed. Last year, JT made 18% of his shots off tip-ins and another 18% off of dunks. This year only 9% of JT’s shots are from tip-ins and only 5% are coming from Dunks. JT’s tip-ins also represent offensive rebounds that he isn’t getting with the same frequency as last year. I attribute this to JT & Spencer clearing out of the paint to allow Tyreke to drive and attack the rim.
On the positive side, the Kings have out rebounded their opponents 11-8 with 3 ties. And, they rank 7th in ORB’s, 14th in DRB’s and 9th in TRB’s. Which seems to indicate that rebounding isn’t the primary failure of our defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
They put JT on the better rebounder
Against a tough rebounder Hawes is hopeless at this point in his career. JT while, not perfect, has a chance. So JT goes against Love leaving Hawes on Jefferson. Love would destroy Hawes on the boards but JT is better suited to guard Jefferson as well.
As to double teams, you have to be able to recover out of the double team and rotate. Hawes is the slowest on the team to do this… most centers are. That’s why you don’t see a lot of true centers double teaming. Plus, the guys coming off the bench for Hawes are better rebounders. So, in the case of a switch they still have a chance against the other teams best rebounder. Hawes simply loses too many battles.
Hawes probably does do the best job helping over and blocking shots. That’s the problem with the backups. While they can rebound the don’t do well at stopping guys from getting their shots off in the lane.
That’s not the only reason the team is bad on Defense. Sometimes other teams can’t out muscle us. JT is young himself and probably just average defensively. Nocioni is physically limited in how he can defend (I like the leadership however, he goes out every night and tries to guard the other teams best wing). Casspi, Evans, and Greene are still are still learning the NBA game but show some potential. Udrih has never been a standout defender. Simply put, the team doesn’t have one standout defender. Other teams know this and it gives them extra confidence before they even step on the floor.
Down the line, the team has a lot of room to grow defensively. Evans should be a very good defensive player who can defend the other teams best 1, 2, or 3. He’s already pretty solid. JT should continue to get better. If Hawes adds more strength again next offseason and gets some real toughness (Not just that scowl), he should land in the average defender territory. Casspi and Greene will improve with experience. Athletically there’s no reason Greene can’t become a good defender. I worry a little about Casspi’s lateral quickness. Udrih is ok for a guy coming off the bench. Martin… well Martin scores efficiently enough to make up for his poor D I guess. Noc will likely be gone. We should bring in more talent down low next year to battle inside.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 5:37 AM PST up reply actions
You're defense is about to look a lot better.
Just watch Steve Blake or Andre Miller dribble until the shot clock reaches about 5, then watch Brandon Roy try to play 1 v. 5. Blazers only scored 84 v. the Knicks. Yes, those Knicks.
Things aren’t going well for Portland, with injuries and all. But the remaining players are trying to figure out what the orange thing is, and why they should put it in the basket. It’s not pretty. I think they can get it turned around yet, but I don’t know if that will be by tomorrow night or not.
πεντήκοντα δύο
Tomorrow is going to be fun
I can’t even watch the game at home. Sigh. Fucking Comcast.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I was on Blazersedge today
and noticed we were put in the Creampuff category. I’m sure you don’t know but OKL did that and we beat them pretty convincingly.
We have many graphics ready if things go our way.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 14, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I looooove the creampuff category
Even swetter when (if) they go down
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
That was one of our posters who likes Microsoft Excel.
Someone suggested that he come up with better names to teams above .500 and teams below .500 at home and on the road. Those were the names suggested. It was nothing personal, if the Cavaliers with Lebron James fell below .500 they would have been put into that category as well. That’s how damning a world based on Microsoft Excel is. The problem is that Excel is the very tool that will take over the world.
πεντήκοντα δύο
Blazers game didn't make Hawes look good at all
Big physical centers like Pryzibella give Hawes a lot of trouble. When Oden was healthy the Kings had no chance vs Portland. In this game, Hawes couldn’t handle him (P…) physically so JT had to guard him. That left Hawes on Aldridge who would be much more easily covered by JT and Blazers went to him to get points. On the flip side, JT is now matched with a bigger guy but at least he puts up a fight. If your center can’t guard a center then that puts your defense in a big bind.
The Kings really aren’t running anything for a center on offense either which made Hawes all that more useless out there. The Kings made their runs when Pryzibella was out of the game.
by abasketballfan on Dec 16, 2009 4:19 AM PST up reply actions
Ziller writes an article complaining about defense, then posts a picture of Jon Brockman?
See, this why you new-age bloggers need editors. Such travesties to journalism should not stand. The populace of Washington is saddened, the entire Husky nation is distraught, and Mama Brockman can no longer hold back the tears. We weep today Ziller, but if this continues tomorrow, we take revenge.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Mike Tyson lite has spoken
That’s a joke, iash. Please don’t kill me.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Dec 14, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
I love that the right toe is creeping out just a bit
like he is about trip him
Screw it
Let’s just work a little harder to outscore them.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 14, 2009 9:40 PM PST reply actions
Outscore them (at the free throw line) and...
at least… help the helper….small steps…
by getPGwithbounce on Dec 15, 2009 12:13 AM PST reply actions
Tyreke and a little bit of growth
have gotten us to 26th from last. Between Tyreke’s rebounding and defense, plus JT not fouling quite everything that moves and a general increase in hustle / giving-a-shit we are a little better.
Some things to improve:
Our young guys growing up – its going to take time, but if they keep caring, they’ll get better. Omri I think has a chance to grow into a decent defender; Donte could be actually good, but is a long ways away.
We need to get rid of Nocioni or get him (deservedly) to the bench for a legit defensive small forward. Yes Noc hustles does his thing, but he’s a bad defender as a starter. He’d be a real nice bench guy, but isn’t what we need from a starting 3. Our starter at 3 needs to be a good defender. If he was, we could limit the two best perimeter guys with him and Tyreke, and put Kevin on the opponent’s worst offensive wing guy.
Having two good perimeter guys will seriously slow penetration and mismatches, and make our big, who probably through their careers are aspiring to be average, good enough to push our defense to NBA average or so.
Anything better than NBA average is going to take personnel that aren’t here yet.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
Nocioni replacement
We need to get rid of Nocioni or get him (deservedly) to the bench for a legit defensive small forward.
Udoka fits the bill, but then you have his relative inability to score. For SFs that can both score and defend, I think the development of Omri and Donte is a better bet.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 15, 2009 10:46 AM PST reply actions
Agree
we’re not good enough everywhere else to have a player like Udoka at small forward. My issue with Nocioni is, he’s not good enough to be the guy we need either, but sometimes Noc believes he is.
We either need to be patient while Omri and/or Donte grow up, and they need to pan out as defenders, or we need to draft/sign a small forward. The plan that makes the most sense to me is giving Omri/Donte time to grow up, but in the meantime our defense is going to suffer most nights.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
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