Post-Game Thread: Lakers at Kings
by Tom Ziller on Dec 26, 2009 9:45 PM PST
Email
Print
234 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
O HAY GUYS
What, the game’s not over?
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Two and a half minutes left
"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton
its over now
what a bummer. we had that shit won.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 26, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
Bad no-call on Gasol against JT....
But I am still fuming over Reke’s 1-on-1 play to win again… WTF????
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
You would think he would have learned from the Cleveland game.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
Yeah we would... I guess he does not feel that way...
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
Tyreke
The youngster is going to have to learn and add the draw and kick to his closing arsenal.
That said, it’s great to see that we have a guy that craves the ball when the game is on the line. He just needs to get better with his decisions, and that will come with time. Disappointing loss, but an exciting future ahead for Evans and this team.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 26, 2009 10:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I wish I actually got to see the late 4th and most of OT
Thankfully for me, my mom’s broadband went out at precisely those times. Plus, my streams weren’t working very well from mid 3rd on. I miss my broadband. :(( < / crying over >
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Great point Section
Reminds me of another great point that Grant made a while back. When Kobe first came in the league, its not like he made every game-winning shot he took. He was air balling shots in the playoffs. Players don’t just come in and dominate the league without needing to learn or add something to their games. There is a learning curve. The thing i like, as you said 214, is that he is willing to take the shot when the game is on the line. I’ll live with the fact that he messed up as a 20 year old rookie with the game on the line, because I believe he will learn from it and not make those mistakes as he gets older.
I've seen Kobe
miss 2 game winners this season, and I don’t go out of my way to watch the [Redacted] play. The problem is, so many people only see these guys’ game winners on SportsCenter(they don’t show the misses) and 3-4 times a year when they play the Kings and they don’t understand that there are usually 3 Kobe clutch misses for 2 every makes.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:29 AM PST up reply actions
Trade him!
He’s a bust!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:23 AM PST up reply actions
Not all of this can be blamed on the "young team" thing
a certain culpability must lay on the coach for failing to set up better situations under which this “young team” can win.
Good coaching involves knowing the weaknesses of your players and working around them.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
i'm with ya there
there was some real bonehead plays from the players also. A lack of understanding of the situation and what is needed. i.e with .4 left you dont have time to fake, just get the thing up
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
I don't disagree
It is a learning process for everyone, coach and staff included. Of course, the coach did not shoot 65% from the line or 24% from 3, so I guess that it is a shared loss.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
did PW have a timeout left for that final play of regulation?
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
I think that they did and I wished that they would have used it this time
To be fair, they did not exactly execute out of timeouts tonight, so I’m not sure if it would have changed the outcome.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Agree
Not throwing him under the bus – obviously in many respects he’s been great.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Doesn't matter,
This isn’t a rookie coach. He should have called a time out on the last posession.
and… he should not have pulled Sergio when that group went up 7 point in the first overtime.
I call this a loss for Westphal.
by nothingbutnet on Dec 26, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
But this is a coach with a new, young team
The Kings have 16 losses this year, and the coaching staff and the players share those losses equally, just as they share the wins.
Put this another way – if doesn’t get the putback at the end of the first overtime, who gets that win? Westphal? The players? Scott Moak?
You’re entitled to your opinion, and you are certainly not alone in it. But I don’t buy in that this is “Westphal’s loss.” The Kings lost, coaches and players alike. That’s how I see it, anyway.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Why does it matter really?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Not to point or assign blame, just a observation
Even JR brought it up during the game. PW had just made some substitutions, and the players on the floor hadn’t played much together. Someone picked up someone else’s man, and they both left one of the Lakers open, and the Lakers got a easy basket.
It just PW’s style and it works a lot of the time. But, not playing fixed rotations where players get used to playing together, and playing multiple players at multiple positions, can lead to blown assignment & confusion.
It’s well know that I’m not perticularly comfortable with the way PW substitutes based on his gut for just this reason. We are a young team and young players make mistakes. so you need to keep it simple and consistent. And, if you have a rotation that’s hot as nothingbutnet pointed out, you stick with it. And, you don’t take your starting Center out and not play him in the last 6 minutes of regulation or 8 minutes of the first 2 overtimes. If I were to criticize PW’s coaching it would be for these types of decisions.
But, I don’t think that having your best player go man to man against the other teams best player so that you can only win and not lose, is that bad of a decision. There are 3 possible outcomes. Tyreke beats Kobe and gets a shot off as time expires, Kobe fouls Tyreke and sends him to the line with little time on the clock, Kobe keeps Tyreke from getting a shot off. That’s 2 chances to win, and 1 chance we tie, and no chance we loss. I’ll take those odds everyday.
Misstakes happen and bad decisions are made both on & off the court, We went up against maybe the greatest coach and player in the NBA and lost. Looking forward to our next meeting.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Agree
At end of regulation, we should call TO with 23 seconds left to set up play. We catch our breaths and design something smart.
Against Cavs, PW did same thing and elected NOT to call TO. I disagree with that strategy with young team.
if there was one left
considering what happened against the Cavs, terrible decision by coach.
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Yea, a timeout would be good in that situation for a young team.
Regroup and go over the options.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
He did call a play, it was poor exection on Tyreke's part
to dribble the ball for 20 or the 23 final seconds, and then not get a shot or pass off isn’t excuseable even for a rookie.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Don't forget
He also won the 2 previous games for us. I trust the extreme ups and downs will mellow into a staid state of super-stardom in the near future.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
He did call a play
the play was for Evans to almost dribble out the clock and then try to beat Kobe one-on-one. Which is exactly what Evans did.
There was exactly 0 player movement in the final play. There was no screen, there was no anything. I don’t see how anyone can kill Evans about the final play, it seemed to me he did exactly what the play was setup to do. Now the decision to allow your 20yr old, with no help or screen, to try to beat Kobe off the dribble for the win, when Kobe will have help available, that’s on the coach.
And, of course Evans dribbled the ball for 20 of 23 seconds, what is supposed to not get the final shot? The worst thing he could have done was miss or turn it over with time left.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Kobe was hurting and Tyreke was able to beat LeBron so I don't think it was that bad of a gamble.
If it were me I would have tried the same play. The only thing I would have done differently, would have been to have someone come out and get the ball and pass back to Tyreke so he set his feet and not lose his dribble. Once Tyreke had the ball in his hand and set his feet, Kobe has to play him closer to keep from giving up a long shot. Plus Tyreke can still drive left or right without Kobe timing his dribble.
With 3 seconds, we get a shot, we get a foul on Kobe ,or Kobe gets a stop. Two chances to win and none to lose. And, the ball in our best players hands. I’ll live with that.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
We had that game.
Ah, whatever, my night is ruined. Hangover time.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
Quality Tequila can help you avoid that hangover :)
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
And water
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
yeah, and I hear bread works too
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 26, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Think that is an urban legend
but feel free to try it out and let me know how it works.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Even though they lost those last two games
It makes you appreciate that playing tough in regulation against the other NBA teams will lead to more wins.
Follow on Twitter - @MAD_Marvin
We will def. be better off with these games/experience under our belts….Learn a lot more from our Ls than our Ws at the moment….which works out to more Ws eventually!
You would think
that after the refs gave the Lakers game 6 that they would be somewhat better at hiding their attempts to give the Lakers a game, especially against the Kings.
The Kings won this game.
by DirtyDribblers on Dec 26, 2009 10:11 PM PST reply actions
Except the Lakers won the game. Great game though.
by West-Coast21 on Dec 26, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
just like they won against the Bucks i spose
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
There is a “W” next to that game so yea.
by West-Coast21 on Dec 26, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
offensive foul, travel, take your pick
i know everyone else around the world who watches basketball made their obvious choice
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
You homers are the reason no one takes the Kings seriously.
The Bucks blew that game as did the Kings in this one. Both teams left the door open and it cost them. I know everyone hates kobe for whatever reason ( no one here actually knows him ) but, Bogut wasn’t set on that play he was still moving. Had that been gasol making that play while Redd was driving, everyone would say it’s a great call.
With that said, the Kings Played great but showed their youth. The Lakers are the class of the NBA and Sac took the game to them. They impressed me when they erased that six point lead late in the 4th. They have a bright future.
Lakers are the No Class of the NBA. The manhandling of their bigs against us, the Kobe flops, and just Kobe in general . Yes kings missed some shots, blew some defensive coverages, but i saw about 5 missed calls in the last 7 minutes by the refs.
I agree it will be better with time, and the Kings keeping up with the Lakers and Cavs is a absolutely great in my eye’s. This shows the team is 95% of the way there, and just needs 1 or 2 better decisions away from winning these games.. A pass to someone else from Tyreke, a good timeout call , or a better foul here or there.
Judgment day is coming!
Like shooting fish in a barrel
You homers are the reason no one takes the Kings seriously
They impressed me when they erased that six point lead late in the 4th. They have a bright future.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
You don't think lack of execution in the first OT had anything to do with it?
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Also
Happy Boxing Day. Hope you all helped your servants and others in need.
Follow on Twitter - @MAD_Marvin
I gave my servant
the day off to celebrate. I’m expecting a thank you footrub tomorrow morning when he comes up to serve me breakfast in bed.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Great game. Tough loss...again.
The good news in my opinion is that the Kings lost this game by beating themselves. Sure the F*kers had 11 blocks but I it was the silly turnovers in OT that did us in.
The Kings are closer to being a playoff team way sooner than anybody thought. They showed a lot of heart and got some important stops when they really needed them. I think that says a lot about the progress of this awesome young squad.
Movin’ on! Bring on Denver! Go Kings.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
by JETisKing on Dec 26, 2009 10:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
When they start to win some of these close games against other Playoff teams
Then they will be closer to being a playoff team, otherwise they’re just a team with a losing record.
sorry for the unpleasant reality check.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
What were you expecting from a team that was 17-65 last year?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
He didn't say we're really close to be a playoff team.
He said we’re closer than anybody thought. But yes, for now that means we’re just another team with a losing record.
I think having Cisco's versatility is more important than anything.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Completely agree
I think his ability to play three positions, gaurd difficult players, willingness to hit a big three, is going to be a huge help to this team, especially when we seem to get in a bit of a funk.
by MichaelMack on Dec 27, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
I really don't think Cisco
is going to make a big difference. What does he have that the players we have now don’t have?
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
NBA experience
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Well,
he won’t short arm 3’s when the game is on the line.
There aren’t a lot of guys that like taking the shot. Garcia has proven that he does not mind. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a more mature Evans initiating when the game is on the line, with Garcia on one wing and Martin on the other?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Hmmm
I didn’t know he had that kind of history. I was just looking at overall stats and shooting percentages and Omri and Beno favorable compare to Cisco – even Donte, Chapu and Udoka aren’t too far off. We just have a glut of talented players that can play his positions.
But my primary contention is that the main player to potentially lose minutes to Cisco, Omri – is not so bad of a player. And I wonder if Cisco (besides the relatively small # of possessions in which the game is on the line) is really that much of an upgrade – especially once Omri gets over his green status.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
Excellent point
There will likely be a tradeable asset or two from that group.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Not sure if it matters
If Westphal is just going to send them to the baseline with the game on the line in the 1-4 and let Tyreke decide the game. He said as much in the postgame.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
I think
that the thought process here might be that the 20 year old point guard will learn to make better decisions as he matures. And that those decisions might eventually lead him to draw and kick. That’s what I got out of it, but I have a pretty wild imagination.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Westphal certainly isn't stressing a passing option
by taking the other four guys out of the play. He’s basically saying we’ll send our best against your best and take our chances, 1 on 1, and our best is Tyreke. The play is designed for him to take the shot, period.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
Respectfully disagree
In the Cleveland game, Udrih was open in the corner, but Evans did not pass it to him. Is that Westphal “taking the other four guys out of the play,” or is that Evans not finding Udrih?
The play is designed for the main player (in this case Evans) to make the decision, and Evans’ decision was to take the shot himself.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'm just going by Westphal's words
Just replay the last press conference. This is going to happen again and Westphal will get asked the same basic question again and again, but maybe next time someone will stress the passing angle.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
In particular
His comments starting at about the 2:10 mark and again at the 5:17 mark.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Watched it
At the 2:17 mark he says nothing of Evans taking the last shot – he just describes the 1-4 flat play. At the 5:17 mark he talks of getting the last shot or a tip in. Again, no specifics are given that Evans has to take the shot. That said, I’m sure that is the preference on this play, much as it is the preference of Cleveland, LA, Portland or Miami to have LeBron, Kobe, Roy or Wade take the last shot. But it is not a mandate (LeBron has dished to Williams, Kobe to Fisher, etc.). Kid has some learning to do.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Some of the quotes
“1-4 flat. That’s what we do. … You’ll see it a lot over the course of his career. … In that particularly case, most coaches in the league will go to their guy with the 1-4 flat and try to get the last shot or have an overtime. He’s our guy, and we’re going to our guy in situations like that and put the game in his hands. … It’s not that complicated of a play. You put everybody down on the baseline and you put your best one-on-one player at the top and try to get the last shot.”
While the pass is an option, the main focus is getting the ball in your best player’s hands for him to take the last shot.
You talked about Kobe and Fisher, but I really don’t remember Kobe passing to Fisher much in that situation. The Lakers are more likely to disguise plays like they are going to Kobe and use him as a decoy to free up Fisher with a free shot, like they did at the end of the Heat game.
When I hear Westphal say something like, “Tyreke didn’t have anything going there and Beno was open in the corner and that was probably the play to make, and that will come with time,” then I will buy what you’re saying.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 28, 2009 1:38 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with coolcat
but whether or not a pass is designed as an option or not isn’t the question. Once Tyreke let the clock get down to 3 seconds, a pass was out of the question.
The chance of someone catching a pass when everone was huddled together, than getting up a good shot in a crowd, and still beat the clock, was out of the question. Tyreke made up his mind to beat Kobe and take the last shot.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Wish I could unrec you
you Grinch you.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:37 AM PST up reply actions
What's unpleasant about that?
lol
This team is ahead of any reasonable expectation.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
This.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Rec'd
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:36 AM PST up reply actions
Good game, but I wish we won that one.
What's the past tense for "scam?" Is it "scrumped?"
by swoosh91 on Dec 26, 2009 10:16 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
Go Greene
Respect the extra é
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:38 AM PST up reply actions
It will be nice to have K-Mart back.
He won’t improve the team THAT much, but there will certainly be less dry spells on offense.
disagree completely
not sure how he could not improve this team
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
He didn't say he wouldn't.
But I presume that you disagree with his opinion that “K-Mart won’t improve the team THAT much”
What's the past tense for "scam?" Is it "scrumped?"
I meant as much as you expect the team’s best player to.
The team will get better, but looking at how they’re playing now you’d think adding a Martin-caliber player would make this team a contender.
But I don’t think that will be the case, since that where they need the most help.
Where we need most help
is a go-to guy in crunch time. (see last two games) K-Mart is a go-to guy.
I know we need low post player too. But running our offense at the end of game was more of a struggle against LA and CLE than anything else.
I thought there was a remote possibility K-Mart would play tonight. Should have activated him for 2nd OT. :)
Westphal has made that call
Tyreke is our go-to guy in crunch time. Having Kevin back apparently won’t change that.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
I think he only said that
in self defense of his play calling, and so everyone would blame him for any shortcoming, and deflect critical comments away from Reke. Kevin Martin at this point is a much more versatile and competent scorer than Tyreke.
by MichaelMack on Dec 27, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
You're probably right
Kevin Martin at this point is a much more versatile and competent scorer than Tyreke.
But Tyreke is a better dribbler and 1-on-1 player than Kevin, and Westphal isn’t going to set up any 1-4 sets for Kmart. He’s clearly designated Tyreke as the “1” for this franchise.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 28, 2009 1:12 AM PST up reply actions
for me, having martin creates the mismatch
and Reke’s advantage over smaller PG’s will be huge. Tonight, Kobe would not have been guarding Reke and his advantage van be used. Against Cavs, if Lebron is guarding Reke then Mo Williams is trying to guard Martin.
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's going to make a major difference
what team are watching?
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
That game was so winnable
I can’t take any solace in just taking the Lakers into a second overtime, and I am disappointed in a lot of decision making. How we can just dribble away 20 of 24 seconds on the clock time after time just to try some ridiculous drive is beyond me. These last two games are exactly the type of game that Kevin Martin would have made a tremendous difference, as at this point he is our smartest offensive player.
Just curious when Martin comes back.
Will he be the closer handling the ball or will Evans continue to be the guy at the end?
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Tyreke will handle
It will be tougher for teams to focus on ’Reke with Martin on the wing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think
That Martin is going to be taking as many, if not more, last shots than Tyreke. He is a much more versatile scorer.
by MichaelMack on Dec 26, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
I would hope so.
Teams know to close out on Tyreke right now. Martin will have to hit a few before Tyreke can get a little more freedom to hit his own.
Also don’t forget Cisco can hit those too. Having him back will help as well for those late-game situations.
If we want to become a playoff team
we will take what the defense gives us. Right now, there is just too much iso (not just by ‘Reke, but by most of the players) when the game is on the line. We completely forget what got us there. If we have a line-up like Beno, ’Reke, Martin, JT, and Hawes, someone will have an open shot at the end. If we do not concentrate on finding that person, I will be very disappointed in our coach. I do think that K-mart adds a minimum of 15 net points per game, which would push us over teh top in many of these games. Our FT shooting and 3’s % will both go up.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
We don't get to be a playoff team until we become a good defensive team
The Lakers shoot 44% Field and 42% from 3 pt range. So, hitting 1 more open shot in regulation wins us this game but so does having the Lakers miss one FGA.
I disagree with your line up, and your someone will be open comment. Players get open because of double teams. When you have to send help to defend Gasol in the post, then someone else will be open. If a guard penetrates into the paint and someone leaves their man to stop the penetration, then someone will be open.
Martin never passes out of the double team, because it doesn’t come until he’s in the paint, so he puts it up and looks for the foul. Tyreke isn’t their either although he is demanding the other teams best defender. If he goes to the rim, he’s most likely to put up a shot than look for the open man. ( 5 turnovers & 2 assists tonight). And, none of them are good enough to demand immediate help.
Any line up the Kings put on the floor is going to have to work to get someone open. I don’t consider ISO plays as open shots, because even if you get past your man, he has help in front of you and he’s coming up behind you. So, your still looking for the open man. Although I don’t think getting open shots is the problem right now, making them is.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Not sure what you are arguing here.
If we need to make more open shots, K-Mart is the answer.
We are actually playing decent D after made baskets. It’s when we are in the open court after a missed basket that we tend to get beat. Not always fast break points, but when one or two guys are slow getting back after going for the offensive hit. Martin will increase our made baskets. Again, K-Mart is at least part of the answer.
Players get open because of double teams AND ball movement. Most teams ARE doubling us. They know their PG can’t guard ‘Reke one on one, so they let one of their guys play off his man. With K-mart on the floor, they definitely won’t switch the PG to K-Mart. ’Reke is only okay at the drive and dish, but Beno is amazing. JT is also very good at backing his man down and passing out when the double comes.
Ball movement is at its best when you guys who are a threat to drive and guys who are a threat from the outside. Also when you have guys cutting without the ball. It’s like having three great receivers in the NFL and giving the QB time to pass. Right now, we have guys who can hit an open shot. But most of them are streaky. Again, K-Mart will help that.
I agree completely that ISO is not open. I think we will play less ISO when K-Mart comes back. What I’d like to see is pick and roll run by ‘Reke and Hawes. If the play opens up ’Reke, he drives the basket. If not Hawes looks for Martin cutting/Beno sitting in the corner or moving. If ’Reke drives, someone must cover him. It won’t be Hawes’ man because he is still out guarding Hawes. It won’t be K-Marts guy once he gets borned a few times. So it will probably be JT’s guy. JT has range and good hands, so he just has to look for the pass.
Yes, last night Evans had more TOs than assists. I don’t think that will always be the case. Obviously since he is averaging five assists a game. That number should only go up with experience and better shooters on the floor. So what don’t you like about the line-up?
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
My arguement is that we don't have anyone on the team that demands a double team
at least not on their own. Teams playing off our other players to pack the lane isn’t creating open guys. It’s only when Tyreke gets into the paint that someone is open. And, the same goes for Martin. But, if neither passes, what difference is it that we have an open man. The reason Beno is so successful, is once he get past his man he takes the shot before any of the bigs can come out and contest his shot. Which is something that Martin does and something that Evans needs to do.
The only players that demand immediate double teams are low post players. And we don’t have one of those yet.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Okay
I agree that we need a low post presence and that we need to pass out of the doubles. I had pretty good confidence that GP will address one of those issues and PW the other. I think the passing is all about confidence in the other players. That whay I like a backcourt of Evans and Martin. They are two guys who could quickly learn to trust each other. I also think JT could become a guy that most players want a double team on. Hawes? Not so sure.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
Since Hawes is all we have, let's think positively
Evans & Martin are going to be our backcourt for the next year & a half. Unless some Star Big deal comes along that requires moving Martin, or unless Tyreke can’t make the transition to PG and we move him to SG.
I don’t think the 3 guard lineup works against many times, and Martin and Tyreke can’t play SF against the likes of Artest & Odom, or dozens of other big SF’s. By Martins return, I expect Donte or Omri to secure the starting SF position, probably Donte. Beno & Omri will be coming off the bench along with Udoka, Brockman.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
A little of both?
For that last shot, depends on the match up? If Kobe is on Reke, It’s all you Kevin. If Kobe is on Kevin you go Ty!. I can’t wait.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for sanity
teams only have so many good defenders, and the dropoff from #1 perimeter defender to #2 is pretty substantial sometimes. We’re going to be fun with Kevin back.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Another home win for the Lakers
Way to represent Sacramento… I was surrounded by Lakers fans… Ridiculous… Well I guess if Kings fans won’t come support the team, might as well let the endless sea of 20 something Asian chicks in Kobe jerseys have a good night out at our expense.
I feel like if the Kings HAVE to score
and if the opponent is determined not to let Tyreke beat them then the Kings cannot score.
It’s great to see another Lakers-Kings game where the Kings manage to foul a Lakers player with a chin to the elbow.
by DirtyDribblers on Dec 26, 2009 10:21 PM PST reply actions
I'm not putting the loss on 'Reke
but the biggest flaw in his young career is that he tends to dribble the ball too long before he initiates the offense and whether he goes is or passes he lets the shot clock get too far down way too often.
That said, the two field goal attempts by Sergio were the worst plays I’ve seen the Kings attempt this season.
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Well PW has been harping about taking the last shot with too much time on the clock.
So, if you want to look at the glass half full, at least the Lakers didn’nt have enough time to win it in regulation.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Agreed.
Far too often we’re seeing things get started with 10 seconds to go and then we’re rushing to get a shot off or not even getting a shot off at all when things break down.
Like everything else it’ll be something this young team will have to learn. One of those 24 second violations eliminated and converted into points would’ve made a world of difference in this game.
Yeehaw
Another moral victory!
Gotta say this is the first time I’ve been really disappointed in Coach Westphal. You gotta call a timeout and set up the play – regardless of how poorly we’ve been executing in late game situations, this team needs the structure of an actual play call on a potential game-winning possession.
Once they’ve shown they can be trusted to execute in crucial situations, then you can worry more about catching the defense off guard.
And Reke, come on already. Kobe Bryant is a premier perimeter defender in this league. If he’s covering you, you run the play and get the ball to a mismatch.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Good point
Why there wasn’t a screen for Udrih or similar was baffling to me. Fisher is a huge liability in those endgame situations because he simply can’t follow guards anymore through screens. Trying to let Evans iso against Kobe at the top of the key was definitely not the way to go.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Tyreke ISO on whoever (obviously Kobe) was the play called from the sideline.
And, they probably ran it hundreds of time in practice. They just never ran it against Kobe or LeBron. So, you can be upset by the play call or by the play execution, but whether or not PW called a timeout to discuss the play is a moot point because coming out of the timeout we’re still going to run that play.
Whether PW is right or not, at least he’s consistent. He’s put the ball in Tyreke’s hand in the last 5 close games and the Kings are 3-2. It will be interesting to see if he does it again when we play the Lakers after the 1st of the year.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
3-2 that's 60%
That’s a 49 win pace. Good call coach.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:46 AM PST up reply actions
We've got a ton of Tyreke and PW apologists on the site right now
Which is fine…I’m not down on either of them in general, just on this play specifically.
Just saying, I don’t care if it’s your bread and butter play, and if it worked against the Chicago Bulls…running it in the last few seconds against Kobe Bryant is foolish, period. And thus, deserving of criticism – neither of these guys should be immune from that, improved play or not.
Call timeout, and work a play with some options. Maybe then the team would give the fans an actual victory against an elite team, not just a moral one.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Dec 27, 2009 5:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your criticism of PW for the final play
I don’t see how you can criticize Evans for the final play though, he did run it. The play was dribble the clock out and look for a final shot against Kobe.
I also agree, there were a few times Evans dribbled too much in the OTs before starting the offense, though the other Kings seemed to have a little stage fright and not come set screens right away, etc.
We lost, of course there’s blame to go around.
I guess I’m an apologist though.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
Well that depends on how good you think 'Reke is
If you are going to give him props for winning the game on an ISO play (which a Kobe or a James or a Wade does) you have to give him some blame for failing to execute. I know he is a rookie. I know he was playing against the best. I know he will get better. But either he can do it (in which case he failed—this time. Or he can’t, in which case you blame PW. I think most of the time, ‘Reke will get you a good oportunity at a win with that play. Don’t give the kid props when he wins on the ISO at the end of the game play, but turn on the coach when the play doesn’t work.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Great response
I think Otis is more than justified in his opinion also. But, not many things had gone well after the first half. We only scored 37 pts in the 2nd half after scoring 31 in the 1st quarter. Omri wasn’t making 3’s, actually no one was. Beno & Greene were the only ones shooting 500 or better. So, I’m not sure what play I would have called, maybe Otis has an idea.
As i posted above, there were 3 outcomes of the final play of regulation. A shot, a foul, and a stop, and none allow a Kings lose in regulation. Now, with Kobe defending the stop may have been the higher percentage outcome. But, if Tyreke is going to become our closer, it has to start sometime. Props to PW for having the guts to do start it there.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I just don't see why this matters
I thought Tyreke held the ball too long on the final possession, and showed his youth at times in the 1st OT (especially diving for the ball).
Still, I ain’t complaining because if you’re telling me that minor little things, that many other teams in the NBA make consistently, aren’t correctable with time I don’t know how i can help you.
Did I want the Kings to win last night? Of course. Does it mean I’m going to hate Paul Westphal or Tyreke Evans for some unfortunate moments in what was a reasonable game for a young team? No.
I think people are too irrational when the Kings play the Lakers.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Where did I say I hated Paul Westphal or Tyreke Evans?
You’re applying an argument I haven’t made.
I think people are too irrational when the Kings play the Lakers.
And I think people are too sensitive to any criticism of Paul Westphal and Tyreke Evans. In no way, shape or form did I say that I’d rather have drafted anyone other than Tyreke, or picked a coach other than Paul Westphal. I just felt they both made large errors in judgment at crucial points of the game last night. That’s it, that’s all – nothing more to read in than that.
I’d hate to think we can criticize Spencer, JT, Donté or Nocioni, but Tyreke and PW have become sacred cows.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Dec 27, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Read what I wrote again
And then tell me where I saw PW or Reke is a sacred cow.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I wrote^
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Didn't say you did
It’s a general comment on the entirety of this thread discussion.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
That it is.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
You implied it contextually
by saying that you don’t hate PW or Reke (Insinuating Otis does – manifested by his criticism) and further by your statement that “people” (i.e. Otis) are irrational when it comes to the Lakers (i.e. criticizing PW and Reke is irrational – except when it comes to non -“little things” – which is a highly subjective term).
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
YW
Pion
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
I agree Otis
Without lowering my opinion of Reke at all, I question how smart it is to do run that play, as if he succeeds in getting past Kobe, he then finds himself in the key with Gasol, Bynum, and Odom waiting there. I can’t see that as our best chance to win. Running screens, pick and rolls, having Beno drifting around the three point line, those plays are set up to produce open shots, why not run one?
by MichaelMack on Dec 27, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
That's not bad for your first comment.
Congratulations.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Yep.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Girls no.
Women, yes.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
wow, a first comment that isn't a "Trade Kevin fanpost".
You get a rec
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:47 AM PST up reply actions
Well...
On the bright side, guys…a buncha kids barely able to drink beer went toe to toe with the Lakers (and the Cavs). I wish someone would do a graph in relationship between winning percentage and team youth this year. The Kings are about the youngest team in the league, yet, they’re constantly flirting with a .500 winning percentage.
by CloudyEyes on Dec 26, 2009 10:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Tyreke didn't lose this game
Paul westphal told him to go one on one with kobe at the end he said so in the press confrence. I don’t blame westphal this is the only way he will learn. Sink or swim he is all we got who has a chance & he has proven that in so many games. Lighten up on the kid he will get there. As much as I like Kevin he couldn’t do it over & over again last year.
Then that's a bad decision by Westphal
First, Kobe Bryant is an excellent defender…one of the best, if not THE best, defender at the guard position in the NBA. Second, you know the officials are going to let him be extremely physical with Tyreke, and the chances of having a foul called in that situation are very small.
How about this…RUN A FREAKING PLAY.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Dec 26, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
+2
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
The Lakers are a better team than we are peroid.
The only way to beat them is to play as a team and use set plays whenever possible to gain an advantage.
I like Westphall but he blew it tonight.
by nothingbutnet on Dec 26, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
Who's the best player on the Kings right now.
So, if you say Tyreke, what’s wrontg with putting our guy up against their best guy with the game on the line. It’s the most exciting play in sports. And, he made sure that we got the last shot.
All season long PW has tried different rotations to find out what he has and what works best. Well, this was one of those experiments, and hopefully we’ll learn by it and get better because of it. In the meantime, Tyreke is 3-2 in finishing off games, and his two loses were against LeBron & Kobe. I can live with that. Especially if it teaches him something and we get better because of it. Those two losses aren’t going to keep us out of the playoffs anyways.
Although at the time, there was some pretty vulger language coming out of my family room.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 27, 2009 2:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
With
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:49 AM PST up reply actions
Why is it a team game
Until the last possession? We should suddenly go all “Clint Eastwood” at the end and listen to our balls instead of our brains?
That entire Kings team played well last night (and I thought Tyreke played so-so) – so isn’t it a slap in the face to just turn the game over to your star rookie and say “we need you to go out and win this”?
That wasn’t Brandon Jennings or Kirk Heinrich or Gilbert Arenas covering ‘Reke. It was Kobe Freaking Bryant. And he stole Tyreke’s lunch money, with PW’s assistance.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
So you would have been happy if the Kings had turned the ball over...
….and let the Lakers run if the ball had “moved”?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I would have been happy if we got off a shot
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
The only way you end up happy is if the Kings win.
Sorry.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I'd make some snarky comment here
But to an extent that is true. I’m not going to be completely happy unless we win. BUT, I can live with a loss more easily if it comes off a play we make most of the time. Foir example if we lose with a player throwing up an off balance three after 24 seconds of milking the clock. I’m frustrated by the players and the coach. But if we drive to the basket and miss a layup or don’t get teh foul call or miss open open jumper. Or even just get outplayed, I can live with that. I can live with losing. It’s harder to live with giving ourselves the chance to win.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
without giving ourselves the chance to win.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
With
I also would like to reiterate that I agree with Pookey generally – in the grand scheme of things, this is a learning experience and the guys will hopefully learn from it. But making the right play at the right time is a learning experience too – I’d like to see more of those mixed in late in close games is all.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
That was the only possible outcome of running something other than an ISO play?
Are you serious? We were guaranteed to have a turnover that the Lakers would have brought back for the game winner?
If that’s the case, we should be running ISO for 48 minutes a game.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Get ready for a lot of sequels
Win some, lose some, but Westphal made it pretty clear last night that he will go back to that play again and again with the game on the line.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
Looking forward to it
The idea behind the 1-4 is to either get a clean run to the basket or take what the defense gives you if it sags on you. The Bulls ran this a lot at the close of games. Sometimes it was Jordan taking the shot, sometimes it was Paxson or Kerr on the kick.
Evans has the drive part down, but he still needs to learn the kick. Not surprising – kid is 20 and has not played 30 NBA games yet. He’s been so good, it’s easy to forget that, I suppose.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I guess the opponent's scouts
Will have less work to do when they talk about the Kings.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
And if they run a play
and start passing the ball around with 10 seconds to go and the [redacted] steal the ball or a shot goes up too soon and they get a rebound, there’d be 200 posts about not getting the final shot.
In my mind, the Iso for Tyreke is bad, a full blown play is bad too, but some kind of screen and roll to increase Tyreke’s options is the right call. It will make so much more sense though when we can run something to end the game that is 3 on 3 with Tyreke, Kevin and a screener.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
+1
That’s it exactly. Will ‘Reke be Kobe or LeBron down teh road? Maybe or maybe not. Those are some really big shoes to fill. But right now, he is not, and it’s silly to pretend he is. Want the ball in his hands? Great. But please give him something to open up room. Pick and roll, screen, whatever. It’s like giving the ball to your full back but not giving him blockers because he is so good he doesn’t need them. Why force you rookie to go man-on-man with Kobe?
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Dec 27, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
+1 for you too
You’re exactly right- you can’t just put the ball in his hands against a kobe or lebron level talent and say “here, do something”. set screens. get people moving- anything to help the guy create.
I thought they made the same mistake in the first ot session as well- up by 7 with momentum, then the iso ball offense kicks in and the offense stagnates.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
And it isnt just beating Kobe
He still ends up in the key with three very good shotblockers there, so the degree of difficulty is extreme. What about a give and go with Spence, who was doing his best Vlade Divac impression last night.
by MichaelMack on Dec 27, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
i love me some brockness
but I’d prefer Spencer in there down the stretch (i.e. last couple of minutes). His offense needs to be respected and allows the floor to be spread for the guards. I
I was hoping
to see Spence a bit sooner. I thought he was very effective tonite.
by MichaelMack on Dec 26, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I thought Spence sat a bit too long tonight too
I would have liked to see a little Spence, Brockman, JT, Beno, Tyreke against Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Bryant, Fisher. But what do I know?
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:52 AM PST up reply actions
No one likes moral victories
but how many immoral losses did we have last year. Litterally it made me sick. I am having fun this year go kings!
Expectations
Losses like this bother the crap out of me while I’m in the moment, but when I have an opportunity to reflect on how this team is playing compared to the team from one year ago -
Last year we were 7-22 after 29 games (we are 13-16 right now).
We had lost 5 games by 20+ and 3 games by 30+ (with a 45 point loss to Boston just a couple of days away). We have lost no games by 20+ points yet this season.
We bemoaned that no one was “big shot” material and that the team had no heart. That is certainly not the case now.
I don’t fault anyone for feeling bitter about this (or any) loss, and this team can play so tantalizingly well that it can be extremely frustrating when they don’t. But I love this team. Looooooooooooooove them. And given where I thought we were at the beginning of this season, I could not ask for anything more. Fortunately for me, the organization does not seem to see it this way. The expectations of the coaching staff and players seems to be higher than mine. This is a very good thing.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 26, 2009 10:40 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
Well said.
This team has already matched the win total Kelly Dwyer predicted.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Yes
and I give you a 4th rec, just bouncing that pas up there for some lucky fellow to alley-oop you to green
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:54 AM PST up reply actions
You are now environmentally friendly.
by UCIrvine kings fan on Dec 27, 2009 4:13 AM PST up reply actions
Nice finish
I get the assist!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 4:49 AM PST up reply actions
IMO
Casspi and Donte are better than he…and already more effective
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
I agree. He has been ineffective, and Casspi and Donte are playing well. I loved Donte’s game tonite.
by MichaelMack on Dec 26, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
PW realised that Noc cant be trusted on D
Which means he’s only effective when his offence is going
Agree
I think Omri should and will either be a starter or get starter-like minutes from here on out. He has border-line star potential.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
there is something avout Omri's game
that allows him to influence the game even when not scoring. His length seems to be disruptive on D and he moves quite well away from the ball. Noce only seems to be effective when the ball is in his hands and when he’s shooting well
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'd say the same about Donté
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:57 AM PST up reply actions
Omri also led the team in rebounding last night
which was huge. I wouldn’t be surprised if this becomes commonplace.
"I hate all sports as rabidly as a person who likes sports hates common sense."
-H.L. Mencken
not sure what we can get for him atm
we’d have to take on some bad contracts as well i think
by thisismellow on Dec 26, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
I think the Kings are going to hold on to Noc if they can't move him.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I vote sooner
I would love expirings because he isn’t going to get any more marketable with Donte and Omri playing well and Cisco coming back soon.
Moving Noce seems to be a popular opinion, but it is hard to find a team that wants a role player with two years and 14 million on his contract. What sort of warthog would we get back?
by MichaelMack on Dec 26, 2009 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
What you hope
is that a team like Boston (for example) looks for Noc to provide a little punch off the bench and a little insurance behind Pierce and even KG, both of whom are nicked up. Time is of the essence for the Celtics, so they are probably less concerned about paying Noc later. And you take back expiring for him – Scalabrine, Allen and Giddens. That puts you one over the player limit, so you drop the unguaranteed contract of Sean May.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Or -
Maybe OKC gets excited about the #8 playoff spot and feels that Noc would be perfect at the 3-4 behind Durant and Green, and they deal the expiring contract of 3rd string center Etan Thomas.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I thought May was guaranteed once he made weight
I thought Udoka was the only unguaranteed contract left.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I believe that there was a bonus incentive for May making weight,
not a guarantee. Not a big deal, though. Cut him and eat (no pun intended) the $500k that you still owe him.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Like your trade ideas
Can you get on the horn to Boston or OKC and make one of them happen?!
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
maybe not today
but injuries happen and that changes the landscape
by betweentheeyes on Dec 27, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
PW is putting the game in Tyreke's hand to ensure he becomes not just a good player but a superstar
BUT…Reke does need to learn
1. Better shot selection
2. Better clock awareness
29 games
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 3:58 AM PST up reply actions
Those laker fans in ARCO got me really mad! Uhh
by Robia on Dec 26, 2009 10:48 PM PST via mobile reply actions
You aren't going to beat them up are you?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
beating someone up and beating them down mean the same thing
how come throwing down and throwing up don’t?
Have you been smoking meth again ElRon?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Your motheri is a good woman.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Why can't you?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Reke,
is going to have to learn that Koby and Lebron are the best two players for a reason. This one on one shit at the end of games against the greats has to go.
I give Reke a pass on this one due to his age. Wesphall on the otherhand deserves a smack on the back of the head. He needs to use his experience to caoch these youngsters down the stretch.
I was okay with the Cleveland loss. This one however was a complete and utter giveaway.
They are the best, but until Evans tests himself against them, he'll never know where he stands
I hope he eventually becomes the closer in crunch time that Kobe & LeBron are. The difference between a winner and a loser, is that the winner picks himself up after failing and trys again. The loser is afraid to try again. Tyreke is going to continue to try and eventually he will succeed. Be thankful your going to be around when he does.
I’ve always been thankful that I was around Chicago when MJ started to be the finisher.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 26, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just got back
We had that game twice and couldn’t finish it off. It sucked because of all the douchebag Lakers fan at Arco. I got so much in my head right now…. I’m gonna go eat something and read around. I may post a view from if no one else does.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
My recap from Home
I was surprised when PW let Tyreke go 1 on 1 against LeBron in the 4th quarter of the Cle game. And, again I was surprised that he started Beno in the backcourt, making Tyreke defend Kobe. For the entire season he has made every effort to not have Tyreke play at the SG position. But, now two games in a row, in the final seconds of Regulation and Overtime, we find Tyreke going head to head against one of the best defenders in the league. Truly, PW is committed to making Tyreke our go to guy no matter whom he’s up against. I agree that Tyreke is our future and I applaud PW for his commitment to Tyreke’s development.
Well, at least this time no one can blame Spencer for messing up the spacing on the final play of regulation, and keeping Tyreke from winning the game. Only Tyreke and Kobe can take credit for that. And, you can’t even blame PW for not calling a timeout and setting up a play. Obviously, they did have a play and Tyreke just wasn’t able to execute it.
In fact, I can only find one area where I can put any blame on PW for the loss. How is it that Spencer Hawes can be our most productive big in the first half, and yet he plays only 2 minutes & 30 secs, of the last 15 minutes of regulation, 0 minutes in the first overtime and doesn’t get into the 2nd overtime until the 2 minute mark after JT fouls our. I know Brockman was very good on the boards. But, he scored 1 pt in 21 ½ minutes, and even if you give him credit for 8 pts on his 4 offensive boards, they were surely negated by the pts he gave up to the Lakers bigs. One more basket or assist by Hawes wins the game in regulation.
On the bright side, we won the points in the paint & the fast break pts. We had fewer turnovers and more offensive rebounds, which added up to 7 more FGA’s. If our 3pt shooting hadn’t gone south in the 2nd half we win this game. All and all more positives than negatives, and I can only hope that the mistakes we’re making in crunch time start to get corrected sooner than later.
Donte Greene is getting closer to winning the starting SF job, and it looks like only Omri and his rebounding can stand in his way. When Martin returns, I expect PW to have a starting line up of Tyreke & Martin in the back court and JT, Donte & Spencer on the front line.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 26, 2009 11:18 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Yes
I like the bench of Beno, Casspi, Brockman, Ime and Noc/Cisco. I like that a lot.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 27, 2009 4:03 AM PST up reply actions
Me too
That will be joyous to watch!
by DirtyDribblers on Dec 27, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Brockman
I know Brockman was very good on the boards. But, he scored 1 pt in 21 ½ minutes, and even if you give him credit for 8 pts on his 4 offensive boards, they were surely negated by the pts he gave up to the Lakers bigs.
Brockman was the best defender of our bigs last night. If he plays the last 2 1/2 minutes of the first OT, maybe we come out with a W. I doubt Gasol would have been able to throw him to the ground like he was a ragdoll and then get all comfy in the key for the tying tip to send the game into another OT.
And you might want to take another look at that game to see all “the pts he gave up to the Lakers bigs.” Brcokman played more than 21 minutes and covered Gaol most of the time he was in there. During that time Gasol had two baskets and made three free throws. Then they take Brockman out and Gasol gets the basket that got the Lakers to 97 and of course the key tip.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 27, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Just got back as well
We got to high five the Kings when they came out onto the court.
We were also the ones in the stands yelling “bandwagon!” at all of the morons around us.
My thought of the night: You have a lineup that goes on a 7-0 run to start the first overtime, why do you make any changes??? Westphal’s been really good about riding hot hands, wish he could’ve followed his own philosophy tonight.
by #12Pick...who? on Dec 26, 2009 11:19 PM PST reply actions
Good question
I think PW put Tyreke back in at that point. And the offense shut down the next two plus possessions. I don’t recall if there were any other subs made. When game goes 2 OTs, it is easy to second guess, since there were so many pivotal plays.
I have to put this loss on Tyreke as much as I love the guy, he missed 14 shots (9 for 23) on way to 18 points (low eFG%) , did not get to the free throw line at all (!), had 0 steals, 5 TOs, and only 2 assists.
Tyreke won the games for us against the Wizards, Bucks, and Bulls with his dominating play in the last minutes. He was taking the league by storm, and had to be feeling the NBA was all too easy, and he had arrived.
After LeBron and K*be tonight, he has to know he has not arrived yet, and there is a lot of work to be done to elevate himself to all-star, and then superstar status. I have all the confidence in Tyreke to get there. When talent is comparable, the game is mental as much as physical. Last two games has revealed the mental toughness necessary to execute in the crunch. The heat of the moment and the will of two superstars overwhelmed Tyreke at the end, but he will improve through the adversity.
On positive side, I was glad to see Donte play well. His play was really slipping, but he was effective tonight a lot of the game on both ends. Great strip on K*be to lead to Omri hoop, and block shot had arena rocking. Needs to fight for more rebounds. With his hops and size, he should getting a lot more boards. 2.4 rebounds is unacceptable. Especially on a night we lose the game by not getting one more.
2.4 rebounds for Donte is equal to what Beno gets and less than Udoka at 2.7.
Kings beat the CAVS AND LAKERS this week...
…too bad we can’t beat the Cavs and Lakers AND the Zebras.
Refs still up to old tricks
When is the NBA going to get some integrity?
the kings lost because the fakers are better
but…………….for the officiating in the nba is so terrible. Really with all the technology we have you would think someone would develop a computerized officiating system that would take the refs out of it. They have red light cameras why not that?
View from 204 is up
for anyone that cares
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Just watched the game after getting home late
How fucking frustrating. Another great game for the fans, really fun to watch but tough as hell to lose. Good crowd tonight, but screw all those Faker fans, they sounded loud.
Some drunken opinions from the sofa:
1. Donte has really shown me something. His D on Kobe was huge … and he’s got much more toughness to him now it seems. I really didn’t see his heart until this season. Pleasantly surprised.
2. Spence could be the best passing big man in the league some day.
3. Coach has to demand that Udrih initiate offense/control the ball in final minutes. This is why Reke isn’t a point guard yet. Its not that he cant pass or doesnt have good court vision. Its because at crunch time, he can’t control tempo and automatically reverts to a scorer’s mentality and looks first to break down his man … how many times tonight did he overdribble or make bad decisions initiating? Every other part of his game he looks like a vet, except for that one. You cant stand out there and challenge Kobe to one on one while rest of team watches ….. And this is also one reason why I’m predicting that the Kings chemistry and Ws will be screwed if K. Mart starts right away (unless they go Udrih, K. Mart and Evans at 3 more-). Two scorers in back court is not always a good thing—especially when Martin cant pass, handle well, set or get thru picks (due to size), or play tough D. Sorry, but there’s a reason other teams aren’t willing to give up something great for K Mart’s 30 a game … its because everybody else sees his limitations and the drag he can put on a fluid offense. If he accepts a support role as a set shooter who moves well without the ball for backdoors, then we may be fine. But I have my doubts. Can only wait and watch. Really anxious to see how he plays.
4. Brockman is proving invaluable. If only he could wear lifts or something.
5. I love watching Casspi finish on the break. He is going to have a Kukoc type career. The guy can do a lot offensively and he plays with grit and fires up the team. As does Brock.
6. Why are we in all these close games with great teams? Of course, it’s all about the team hustle, pure and simple. Look at the guys and their fire level:
Reke (icy cold dagger fire)
Udrih (sparky)
Omri (flamethrower)
Brockman (napalm)
Nocioni (Donkey Kong barrel fire)
Thompson (steady gas stove)
Hawes (malfunctioning Zippo)
Udoka (trusty Bic lighter)
Sergio (long stem match tosser)
Donte (crack pipe blue flame)
Kenny (homemade kindling fire)
Sorry Kings…. You really deserved to win one of these games. But as all salespeople and Alec Baldwin says in Glengarry Glen Ross: “A.B.C. Always Be Closing.”
by VirginiaBlue on Dec 27, 2009 1:30 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
DId all the NBA GM's call you or email you with this juicy tidbit?
“Sorry, but there’s a reason other teams aren’t willing to give up something great for K Mart’s 30 a game … its because everybody else sees his limitations and the drag he can put on a fluid offense.”
Kevin Martin a drag on a fluid offense? Tyreke is a drag at this point, albeit a remarkably talented one, I am not sure if you are ignorant or just enjoy typing with little regard of what you are saying. K-Mart is an extremely fluid offensive player, and is the best scorer on our team. Go back and watch him dropping 48 earlier this year, he can score from every point on the floor.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Shane Battier knocks Greg Ostertag
- A preview of Tom Thibodeau’s All-Star coaching style
- The Three-Point Shootout participants have been named
- Jeremy Lin finally gets a new apartment, and a place in NBA history
- Wizards owner Ted Leonsis takes a needless swipe at his team’s fan bloggers
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
