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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Are Any Sacramento Arena Proposals Serious?

Mayor Kevin Johnson today unveiled the names and proposed locations of those seven submitted Sacramento arena plans. Remember that these all come in addition to the ongoing effort by the NBA and Cal Expo to place an arena at the state fairgrounds, a plan the mayor has marked as too slow and (depending on which day you catch him) doomed.

A few of the names are serious. Thomas Enterprises, the group that is doing the railyard redevelopment near downtown, submitted a proposal. That's a serious proposal, no matter how it actually looks, just because of the company involved. In fact, you wouldn't be crazy for thinking the mayor's whole request to the people of Sacramento for ideas was just an elaborate plan to get Thomas to submit an idea. An arena at the railyards is preferred by so many parties, and Thomas is the cheese there.

Matt Haines, whose restaurants (including various incarnations of Bistro 33) have good reputations around town, wants to wedge an arena between the river and I-5 south of the Tower Bridge, a plan which would seem difficult in Sim City, let alone Real Live Sacramento. The city is attempting to get that parcel (some 23 acres) developed, but plans are already in motion. Replacing a riverfront park or retail with an arena doesn't seem all that easy. (Nice idea, though. Can't wait to see the full proposal on this one.)

But every other idea -- all five of them -- might as well be written on papyrus and shoved into a kiln. No offense to the proposers, but ... the Downtown Plaza? As convenient as that'd be for the civil servant workforce and, um, Greyhound enthusiasts, I'm not seeing it. One other proposal is for a combo arena-theme park (!) at Cal Expo. Another is for Natomas, which is a complete non-starter for the Maloofs. Another is a railyards idea -- if it goes in at the yards, Thomas will be the developer. Another would replace a city parking garage at 3rd and L streets with an arena, which screams to me both "tight fit" and "second least desirable downtown location" (with first being the Plaza).

On January 14, the mayor will host a forum in which all seven ideas will be fully presented. I look forward to seeing the Thomas and Haines proposals. The others? Sorry, y'all. Maybe they have some clever ideas that can be added to one of the feasible projects. But that will likely be the extent of their value.

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If this WAS sims city...

To paraphrase my dear friend, Kang:

“My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a basketball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.”

I still like the railyards, but the up-front cost on that would scare of anyone, even during flush times. Whoever does it is going to make a killing, but it’s a 25-year investment, and no one thinks that far ahead anymore.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Dec 29, 2009 11:09 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Will the January 14th forum be televised

Or have transcripts provided to the public?

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2009 11:12 AM PST reply actions  

Railyards by Thomas or Arco w/NBA involvement

Those are the only two ‘serious’ arena proposals. I agree that the 3rd and L parking garage conversion is quite a tight squeeze, unless we cement the greenery on capitol mall into a parking structure. The Haines proposal on Front street seems nice at first, but getting there will cause more trouble than having AI and T-Mac under the tutelage of Scott Skiles.

I really hope that the arena issue is settled soon. I voted yes on the previous arena issues, and will continue to do so in the future, regardless of this team’s record (although this team is on it’s way up in the league).

by clicc916 on Dec 29, 2009 11:13 AM PST reply actions  

I'm all about the railyards.

Go for the clean slate approach, I think unexpected costs are always less.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 29, 2009 11:19 AM PST reply actions  

I'm for the railyards as well

With Natomas as my 2nd choice (which the Maloofs don’t want).

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Hope they stay in Sac

Eve though I live in the SF bay area, I’d HATE to see the Kings leave to a city like San Jose.

I love the underdog grit & small-town edge that playing in Sac gives the team. It’s an us against the world mentality and, guys, Arco is rocking again. Not quite like it did during the glory years but my god, it’s getting there — only a matter of time. A Lakers-Kings first round playoff match up is a distinct possibility…THIS year. How freaking cool is that?

It’s good to see the Maloofs reinvigorated by their recent sale of the beer distributorship license. Maybe I’m wrong but they do seem genuinely interested in reconnecting w/the Sacramento fan base.

by MadProphet on Dec 29, 2009 11:49 AM PST reply actions  

I don't recollect...

…why the Maloofs don’t want a new building in Natomas??

We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

by outrider on Dec 29, 2009 11:57 AM PST reply actions  

The Arena is a good 5 minutes away from the J Street exit on I-5

Feels like an hour when you’re in the back of a limo.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Dec 29, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Conspiracy theory

Because if it was in Natomas on their land, they would be expected to pay more of the costs and wouldn’t be able to sell the land after the arena is built.

by Carl on Dec 29, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think the Maloofs rule out Natomas at all

If you remember a million years ago , they liked Natomas and it cost 300 million to build there when the dfowntown sight was 600 million….the city offered them 100 million to choose downtown in the original offer …a net loss of 200 million to the Maloofs and less control of the income….I have serious doubts that they prefer anything other than Natomas because they would have to share parking revenues,They would go need to have control of most restaurants and bars near the arena to make up the loss of parking revunue…and also need full control of concession revenues.

by ElRonToro on Dec 29, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

$$$$$$$

The Maloofs own the present Arco property. They stand to get thier entire investment in Kings back by developing it.

They would probably be fine with Natomas, as long as it is on property other than the existing Arco, so that they remain free to develop it.

by Mystic on Dec 30, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't be too quick to judge

the merits of any proposal, or the people making the proposal. Lived here my whole life and I don’t think I knew who the hell Greg Lukenbill was 26 years ago. Let’s keep an open and hopeful mind about all the people who agreed to submit proposals.

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Dec 29, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

Win.

Must make green….

"El once, chico. Eleven."

by Juan Primo on Dec 29, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

"...just build something."

Oh, that I could rec this more than once.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 29, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Build in Folsom!

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

There was one scheme to build out there

In the undeveloped area south of 50 in Folsom. Not sure where that one disappeared to…it was probably a better idea before the housing market went bust (I’m sure some residential development was part of the master plan out there).

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Dec 29, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Folsom would be great for my drive time to the Arena.

But not so much for everyone actually in Sacramento.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

The "Folsom South of 50" plan area

is still alive. Securing water supplies for all those houses has slowed them down. The Environmental Impact Report didn’t have an arena, for what it’s worth.

by TheFifthMookie on Dec 29, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

What about the old Drive in site?

Big enough?

Anyway, I think the railyards make a lot of sense for the whole development.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 29, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it is still open

But that’d be a neat spot at the very least!

by DirtyDribblers on Dec 29, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Surrounding area is kinda depressed area with a lot of low-middle income and crime but i can see the kings at RPM all the time ..You would need quite a bit bigger lot i think for arena and parking though

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

It is still open

and it’s funny because they actually have a sign on the back of one of the screens that says “We’re still open!”

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 29, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I know that is hilarious they had to do it because it looks so overrun and beatdown

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Not quite...

They had to do it because it was purchased by a developer who announced their intent to turn the property into a big shopping center.

by cabz on Dec 30, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Ahh i didnt know that..It still does look beatup and rundown though.

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Have you been there?

Its fun but the bathroom is beyond hideous. I’m afraid just unzipping will infect me.
Its like a public restroom in Beiruit .

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Which drive-in?

I assume the 49er? I think the Sunrise Drive-In area has been developed.

The old porno drive-in near Davis is undeveloped I believe. /wiggles eyebrows

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Dec 29, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he means the drive in by Bradshaw on Hwy 50 Otis

But I might be wrong.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions  

you are correct

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Soccer fields

They developed soccer fields where the Porn theater used to be, I guess the land was quite fertile!

by want2win on Dec 30, 2009 7:46 AM PST up reply actions  

around 500 million I think

depending on the location

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 29, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

No more Carl's Jr $6,000 burger commercials (please?)

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Dec 29, 2009 2:46 PM PST reply actions  

No kidding

What a huge mistake

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 29, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Not really a mistake

The Maloofs decided pretty early on to sandbag the ballot issue. That spot was just salt in the wound.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Dec 29, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

natomas

I thought the article said the city owned the land in Natomas? seems that’s a way to get some taxpayer money, donate the land or lease it cheaply and build and sell or lease the surrounding acreage for business use to generate some revenue monies toward the arena? Don’t need vote for that if they already own it, but I do recall a reason the Maloofs don’t want it there. I would think that since they own the existing arena, a new one next door would make that property more valuable……

by Rfdong on Dec 29, 2009 3:30 PM PST reply actions  

I'm also questioning the idea that Natomas is a complete non-starter for the Maloofs.

Maybe they were able to be more picky a couple of years ago when moving the team seemed more feasible, but at this point don’t you think pretty much anything is on the table for all parties involved?

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 29, 2009 4:29 PM PST reply actions  

I had a great idea of building the arena at the old City Dump

but it stunk.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 29, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I forgot to ask (mostly because I couldn't think of who it was you reminded me of)

But do you masquerade as Mr Clean in any of your lives?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I wish I did

But I didn’t sadly. I’m so juvenile I was laughing at the idea of you having a bar code on your noggin.

Watchmen is a great movie though. Glad I watched it although I do wish I had seen it on a big screen instead of my TV.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh no! That totally screws up my mental image of bte.

You are so quirky, and yet so witty. I alway picture you as Einstein. Now you are just John Locke of Lost to me. Which is still ok, but it’s really quite disappointing.

By the way, my mental image of pookey is Jabba the Hut in a Kings jersey.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 29, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Think of bte as a tall skinnier version of Mr Clean.

He has the smile, bald head and lacks the gypsy earrings.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

bte just recently dropped the earrings

as he’s stalking Kayte in his AA seats this year ( I KNOW thats the reason – oh I knoooow)
Pookey isn’t nearly as heavy as he led us to believe.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, great. Now you've ruined my mental image of pookey.

Next you’re going to tell me ed doesn’t look like this:

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 30, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Ed's more White Chocolate than Dark Chocolate.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Milk chocolate?

Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...

by edm7 on Dec 30, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Only if it's pasty. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 31, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

That costume would look awesome on you

Both Hitman and Mr. Manhattan.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 30, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

The Railyards are the best bet!

Right next to Downtown baby!

Natural Go Getta!

by slamson on Dec 29, 2009 5:59 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe the Mayor is taking a page out of American Idol

Have one or two people you want to win and surround them with no hopers that make the one you want to win sound really good.

There's nothing to fear but everything.

by elfboy_ on Dec 29, 2009 6:08 PM PST reply actions  

My opinion is that any arena that is built around income derived from the parking lot ignores the reality that is happening with petroleum in the world

The whole reason parking lot’s were built in the 50’s for stadium’s was to designed THE NEW focus towards the passenger car. If the Maloof’s continue to believe that they will have a large revenue stream from parking they are sadly mistaken. That is the biggest reason (other than the railyards could be a central piece of re-developing that part of downtown) I like the arena being put in the railyards.

Anything that destroys the waterfront is purposeless. Anything that destroys access to the waterfront is purposeless.

We shall see however.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 6:11 PM PST reply actions  

i have been to quite a few NBA venues

I hate driving to games and one thing I require is functional public transit

by southern oregon on Dec 29, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

to Portland's credit

Their public transit is the best on the West Coast all told.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions  

No

It’s among the best in the US.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

And that's the rub

This city sees public transportation as a necessary evil, rather than a tangible solution to a lot of problems.

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Dec 29, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Public transportation is a worthwhile investment

Not a necessary evil.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Pookey’s a necessary evil..

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

At least you know it. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

so who is the good to balance your evil?

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Eric Maynor.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Eric Maynor runs the universe idiot.

Ed would be the good.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

And would Aykis be the creamy nougat filling?

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 29, 2009 11:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I hesitate to generalize.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I wrongly assumed

That Eric Maynor WAS Ed.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Dec 29, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

You’re exonerated for now.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Eric Maynor does not take pity on the Bulls.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 29, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Public Transportation

I hate driving to games also. I have recently gone to Wrigley Field and the Old Yankee Stadium, my fiance’ and I took public transportation and it added to the day. (especially the really drunk guy in chicago that smelled like urine a good young entrepeneur would be selling face mask to help passengers) We stayed around afterwords and ate and drank the local pubs and jumped on the L-train or Subway to get back home. Three things come to mind, we spent at least another $150+ dollars because we had cool places around the stadiums, and we did not have to worry about DUI. If we had a great downtown arena with excellent transportation it becomes an outing vs a game.

by want2win on Dec 30, 2009 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

You can take buses in Seattle to Qwest, Safeco or Key

And in Portland you can take the MAX to the Rose Garden. Totally know what you mean w2w.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Good Point

I love an arena downtown for a lot of reasons, primarily because as a lifelong resident in Sac I want to see us grow up and would like to see more events that bring people to the city so we have another economic resource. The PMSA of Sacramento is equivalent to to the 37th largest GDP in the world, it is time we helped grow it and make a name for ourselves by placing a world class facility Downtown. I live in Placer county and work in the city, before working in the City I only went downtown because of the River Cats. I can gaurantee you that more of my time would be spent in Sac if we had a great development. As it stands now I take my out of town guests to Tahoe, Napa and SF. I would rather take them downtown.

by want2win on Dec 30, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Question for you, W2W...

You state you live in Placer (as do I). Given that, if the new arena were in one of the downtown sites, would you drive all the way in, or would you park out at I-80 and Watt and use RT Metro to get to the games?

by SierraSpartan on Dec 30, 2009 8:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I would park and take train in

More time to sober up…hopefully we can get smart and bring light ral all the way out to Roseville

by want2win on Dec 30, 2009 8:04 AM PST up reply actions  

First step is gettign Sac county to extend it to Antelope for all the state workers who live there.

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Easiest way to do that would be to cut out 2 lanes in I-80.

Of course, nobody wants that either.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Nah just run it down the existing rail lines by Roseville road..thats easiest way

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah it would be. LOL

It’s just that they would have to cut back off I-80 from where Watt currently stops. I’m curious as to why that station is in the middle of the freeway as opposed to why they didn’t just end it on Roseville Rd as you say.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Dec 30, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

That was my wondering but supposedly they had room and makes it easier for both sides. They could just drop a t line between before the watt exit (go to watt station, turn around and head up the T line to antelope next to existing tracks). You would basically do same for Airport dumping a station at amtrak yard and branch from there.

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Dec 30, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

The railyards

(or anywhere downtown, I just think railyards is better to develop that whole area) would do a lot for downtown businesses. I guarantee that for games, concerts etc. that all the restuarants, bars would get a lot of week night traffic. Plus I think corp sponsorship would naturally increase by proximity / new venue alone.
An arena in the railyard would also IMO increase the value of all the other railyard businesses.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

This ain't Portland

I assume when people speak of “public transit” or “mass transit” in the arena issue, they are speaking of Sacramento’s RT. And considering RT’s track record thus far with the Toonerville Trolley system they have now, does anyone think that they will be able to step up their game when the arena (no matter where it is sited) opens?

(nervous fidgeting)

As much as we would all “like” this city to act like Portland in terms of mass transit, MetroSac is built and designed – albeit poorly – around the automobile.

It is for that reason that the various Cal Expo proposals through the years have been met with a collective “meh” from the general public – they know what a clusterfrack the CCF will be before and after a Kings game.

Speaking on a purely logical and logistical basis, the first and best proposal for an Arco replacement is at the current Arco Park site. The Maloofs already own the land, there won’t be any environmental or traffic mitigation hassles, and construction can (conceivably) begin at any time.

The downtown proposals are nice for a collective circle-wank, but they are all inevitably doomed due to the red tape and environmental “review” which has made Sacramento such a wonderful city (/sarc) in which to conduct business in the past.

by SierraSpartan on Dec 30, 2009 7:37 AM PST reply actions  

We can dream

SS you are right that it is logical to build at Natomas and that we have a lot of red tape and small minded people in Sac, but I want the city to grow up and it is worthwhile for the future to have a great DT location that is a destination for years to come..so I will keep on dreaming and hoping that we can grow up..just call me Pollyanna

by want2win on Dec 30, 2009 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Getting Right to the core of the question...

W2W – your response gets right to the core of the question, which is what do we (as a community) want, and does that desire mesh up with what the politicians want, and does that mesh up with what the Maloofs want?

Ziller has suggested in his article that any consideration of Natomas is a "complete non-starter for the Maloofs." If indeed that is the case, then the Maloofs are not truly serious about obtaining a new building for this team, but instead are hoping that someone, somewhere will toss them a project to which they can hitch their wagon.

I’ve watched too many DT Sacto proposals come and go to believe that anything substantial in DT will get up and off the ground in the time frame that Kevin Johnson is outlining.

The list o’FAIL is quite impressive: Downtown Plaza. K Street. The twin 50-story towers. The I-5 boat section deck and park. "Play Ball Sacramento," with Joe Serna putting on a snap-back hat and looking like a tard. Props Q and R.

If the Maloofs are truly, truly serious about getting a replacement for Arco, then it is up to them to get out in front of one or two of these proposals, and to put some skin in the game. Furthermore, if there is any location that is a “nonstarter”, then the Maloofs need to so state, along with the reasons for that location being a nonstarter.

Otherwise, I fear it’s going to be another repeat of Q and R, and three years hence we will be right back to where we currently are today, wondering whether or not the ownership of this team will continue to keep their team in what they insist is a substandard building.

by SierraSpartan on Dec 30, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Arco was built on the cheap in the first place

Have you been to another Arena? Even the NCAA is no longer willing to use Arco as a March Madness venue.

As to the Maloofs, I think they’re doing it right this time, letting the community business leaders and the Mayor sell the idea, get some momentum going before they take a leading role.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions  

As a matter of fact...

I’ve been to plenty of arenas, both NBA and NHL, and Arco is pretty much a dump.

However, I somewhat disagree with the contention that Arco was “built on the cheap.” In 1987, Arco was constructed at a cost of $40M. The closest analogs to Arco were and are the old Charlotte Coliseum (which cost $52M but was a much larger building), and the old Miami Arena ($52.5M, similar size as Arco). There are two current buildings that opened in 1998, those being the Bradley Center and the Palace of Auburn Hills, which each cost $90M and $70M respectively, which are still serviceable (even though the Bucks’ ownership is grumbling about the need for renovation).

There are other arenas (particularly in the NHL) with a generally similar age to Arco which apparently are holding their “age” much better – examples would be HP in San Jose, Honda in Anaheim, PepsiCenter in Denver, etc.

From a pure dollars-per-seat perspective, Arco is far and away the “cheapest” arena in the NBA – and it looks it. However, that particular honor used to belong to our friends 90 miles to the west before they completed their gut-and-rebuild renovation in 1997 at a cost of $121M.

I’m not privy to the engineering specs of the building, but it’s my contention that a similar reno can be done at Arco, and for far less money and hassle than what people are discussing here – if it is truly the object of the Kings ownership to get a “better” venue for the Kings and their fans. As a practical matter, it is almost always cheaper to renovate than to build from scratch.

But a reno doesn’t have that “new” appeal, does it? And that’s where we get to the question of the ultimate goal of Clan Maloof – do they want to improve the fan experience and thereby make their team more profitable, or are they holding out for the “new”?

There are aspects to Arco which cannot be found in any other NBA venue. It would be a shame to lose some of those aspects of what has made Arco special in the past all in the search for something “new.”

And I fear that this obsessive search for the “new” may end up being the perfect which is the enemy of the good.

by SierraSpartan on Dec 30, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely
There are aspects to Arco which cannot be found in any other NBA venue.

The first time I ever went to Arco was for Game 7 in 2002. A buddy of mine scored seats in literally the last row up top along the sideline. I really couldn’t get over what a nice view I had, and how close I still felt to the action, die to the nice steep rise of the seats. Christmas that same year, I had similar seats at Staples for the Kings game, and I felt like I was watching a Rivercats game from the Renaissance Tower.

Staples is a beautiful facility, and I think Kings or no, the region benefits by having a venue (not a basketball arena) in which to host all sorts of events. We get bypassed on a lot of really great concerts (believe me, this is a fact) due to the inadequacies of Arco. I would just hate to lose some of the intimate aspects of the arena we have for the sake of trying to squish a few thousand more asses into a more expansive building.

I suppose a place to build, a financing scheme, and a dozen other things have to be worked out before we start getting into design and aesthetics, but I really have a fondness for the viewing experience offered at Arco, and hope that the positives in that regard will be considered.

Also, yes, light rail access, no matter where it is. Could be some federal money possibilities for that, especially if you can tie it in to a spur to the airport.

And SierraSpartan, keep chiming in, you make a fine addition to the forum.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Dec 30, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

They don't plan on adding a ton of seats

And they’ve discussed the nice intimacy issue, so hopefully that won’t change too much.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

A renovation has been studied ad nauseum

The shell is much much smaller than the GS building. Absolutley no room for any suites, absolutely no room for additional bathrooms, actual restuarants, locker room upgrades . . . .

It – can’t – be – done.

 Much of the cost in ’98 had to do with building it in the middle of flooded rice paddies.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Dec 30, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Dead ON

the comment below is dead right, lets hope that the Maloofs get out in front!!

If the Maloofs are truly, truly serious about getting a replacement for Arco, then it is up to them to get out in front of one or two of these proposals, and to put some skin in the game. Furthermore, if there is any location that is a "nonstarter", then the Maloofs need to so state, along with the reasons for that location being a nonstarter.

Now I need to get back to the game

by want2win on Dec 30, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Mayor Johnson cares not for your red tape

Seriously though, if he’s able to get his “Strong Mayor” proposal approved, perhaps the burecratic frustrations of Sacramento’s past will be irrelevant here.

"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.

by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 30, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

The real factor here is...

Winning. I don’t know much about the logistics or politics behind the building of a new arena, but I do know that nothing will happen if the Kings don’t keep winning and improving. If we can get to the playoffs again soon… like by next year soon… I guarantee the arena will get built. No one wants to see a winner leave town.

by 6thgradefreethrowchamp on Dec 30, 2009 12:24 PM PST reply actions  

Joe Namath called

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Dec 30, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

In my slow might as well have a good time way of traveling

I would love to catch Kings games if there was reasonable lodging and transit handy

by southern oregon on Dec 31, 2009 9:24 PM PST reply actions  

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