Another trade idea from a hornets fan
by jdpourciau on Dec 3, 2009 7:13 PM PST
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Hey guys, I'm back with another trade proposal. These are fun, and you know you like them as much as I do. I think this move is pretty sensible, but I wanted to check with you guys to see if I am crazy. So here is the trade proposal:
Peja for Nocioni and Garcia (And Sean May or Udoka because Garcia is a BYC player as I was helpfully reminded by one of your posters. This would also mean that this move couldn't go down until closer to the trade deadline.)
Peja has had a resurgence recently but the real reason Sacto would do this move is because it saves you serious money. Peja's contract expires next year. You guys pay 2 million more next year but save 24 million after that over the next two years. Heck you could even buy him out but I think you lose his value that way. Next year you guys will have serious cap space, a big expring, lot's of young, talented players, and multiple first round paicks. That;s the kind of stuff that gets you superstars and builds dynasties.
Additionally Peja is not completely useless as a player. He can still score, and pass, and he is still deadly from the three. Peja would also give you guys a solid vet to help teach your wings (something Nocioni can already do). Granted he is not the tenacious defender that Nocioni is, but that gives Casspi a new role to play.
Having said that, honestly, it frees up some space at the 3 for Green and Caspi.You don't owe Peja minutes, and there really isn't space for Nocioni and Freddie in you future with the talented wings you already have. Lastly, it's Peja, a guy with a special relationship to Sacto. It would be nice to see him finish his career where he started it.
For the Hornets, we get our starting wings for the next few years. Garcia is a great versatile wing, and Nocioni is a tenacious defender who can hit the spot up J. Anyone who has seen my posts before knows how much I love Garcia's game and how perfect a fit I think he is next to CP3 (good catch and shot game, good ball handler, good defender, tough, good character). Both space the floor and play good defense which is really all we need from our wings. We also save two million dolLars next year which will be a bad luxury tax year for us.
So that's my move. Thoughts?
P.S. I know you guys want to try Kevin Martin and Evans together, but would this move plus David West and Marcus Thornton for Kevin Martin work for you guys? Just wondering.
I'd love to see what you have to say about these moves. Good luck with the rest of the year.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Personally
I wouldn’t trade West for Martin as West duplicates a lot of what Jason Thompson does.
As far as Peja for Noc/Cisco, that trade doesn’t work under the salary cap because Cisco is BYC.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
What it means jdp
That it couldn’t happen until next OFF-SEASON. Not the trade deadline.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I disagree
That move could still happen this year provided that another Sacto player was added. He’s a base year guy but because the contracts are relatively large there is some wiggle room that allows the Hornets to eat a bit more extra contract.
For example do a trade of Cisco, Noc and Brockman for Peja. That trade works on trade machine and works in real life. I substituted Brockman for May because I figure you guys want to hang on to Brockman. As you know you can’t trade May or Udoka yet.
Right
The Kings might consider doing that to shed a contract. My next question is, why would the Hornets be willing to take on Noc & Cisco’s contracts?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I love me some Cisco, but I sure loooove me some Peja
But sadly, no.
I definitely don’t think the Hornets agree to pick up more contract. To go from giving up a good player for nothing to picking up a pseudo-starter on a team that just lost it’s coach? I don’t see it happening, but maybe the GM (Bower) gets risky knowing his job is on the line. And that is alot of contract they’ll be picking up – nearly 45 million. That buys a decent amount of shwag in the NBA, not just two 6th men (albeit exemplary 6th men).
Player personnel wise – this is a big loss for the Kings. Peja can go down tomorrow and stop playing, and alot of us fans are counting on Cisco to bring the fire when the rookies start hitting that wall. If Noce keeps up this play, he can certainly be had for an immediate expiring, and not just an extended one – and many fans are hoping for a late pick, but I’m not so optimistic.
As awesome as it would be to have Peja in this roster, it would make as much game sense as picking Bobby Jackson up for the minimum would right now. That is: none whatsoever. He is not good enough right now in the way this Kings team would need him, and that would just be unfair to him as a player.
Also, keep your swamp hands off Kevin Martin, bro. Ain’t happening.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
by iashwash on Dec 3, 2009 7:45 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Hahahaha
Loved the last line. You make some good points but…
From the Hornet’s side: The Hornets would do this move because of two reasons. First, money wise, this move makes sense because it allows us to cut few players at our dealine (Hilton, Devin Brown, and Diogu probably) thus getting us below the luxury tax for this year, and it saves us two million dollars next year. That two million is really three million because it means that we have to sign one less scrub to make our 13 man roster next year. Also, this is really adds alot of contract this year BUT we get two solid players. We have show a willingness to take on longer contracts to make short term cuts. The 45 million does us no good if it can’t buy us to time to get CP acclimated to the new players we will need to rebuild this team around him.
Secondly, I think you might be underestimating what Garcia and Noc could do in the right sytem (meaning with a point guard like Chris Paul to constantly draw double teams and feed them open 3’s). The thing about CP, and the travesty of the contract we gave Peja is that the Hornets don’t need crazy good wings. We just need wings who can space the floor, hit open 3’s and play good D. The Denver series taught us that one of those wings needs to be a ball handler, but that’s about it.
Couple that will be a great young bench. Collison and Thornton have been great and I think Juju will really come on for us as a bench stopper and small ball 4. The player we really need is Diop from Charlotte, and I think we could get him pretty easily for Mo Pete’s contract. He would give us a great backup defense and rebounding presence, and allow Okafor to play the 4 some. He is also one of the few players who I would trust to single cover the game’s best bigs.
Also forget about the effectiveness of this move this year. We would really miss Peja and it would take a while to get used to a new guy in the system. Noc can shoot but he can’t shoot like Peja. Honestly, I am pretty resigned to this season being a wash.
The important two seasons for us are next season and the season after. We need a squad that CP can get used to and believe in. It doesn’t make sense to try to make moves the summer after next because if we keep losing he will be ready to go by then.
That is only worht it if we make moves that put us in a better financial position next year and make us a stonger team next year. This move does that because it gives all solid 2 way high character players at each position coupled with the game’s best point guard. We can compete next year with that squad (not to mention whatever we get with our lottery pick.)
For you guys: Peja could go down tomorrow, but here’s the question. Does that really matter? You have to great young huys who have played really well this season whose natural position is the 3. This isn’t a rhetorical question but isn’t it better to get those guys some quality minutes this year so that they gain the confidence needed to make a really good push for the playoffs next year. Don’t get me wrong, playoffs are a definite possibility for you guys, but for the future, and based on a long term game plan, wouldn’t you rather just give most or all of those minutes to Casspi and Greene?
As for Cisco, where does he even play when he gets back? There are no minutes at the 3 as we have already discussed becuase of Noc, Omri and Greene. And there are no minutes at the 2 because of Martin and Evans who will at least play some 2 for you guys. Haven’t there been some really effective packages that have him and Beno or him and Sergio together? I know that’s what killed us when you guys played us. Also, Cisco probably doesn’t come bac kto full form this year, so he doenst help any win now scenario.
Laslty, my swamp hand will always covet Kevin Martin no matter what you say!
Sorry, I didn't read all that
NO
Sac fans would never be comfotable watching Peja rot on the bench OR play.
You see, we’ve moved on.
Send over West for Noce and we can talk, we’ll thow in Sean May, a 2nd rounder and a GPS with all In-Out Burgers locations already loaded in the memory.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 3, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously?
Look, I understand being a bit biased towards you own team but Noci for West? Are you on crack?
not seriously
the In-and Out Burgers should have been a hint :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
But the first part wouldn't work either
As Kfan in Korea says somewhere in here, why would we want to give up Cisco just to move Noce’s contract?
That won’t be necessary, we may even get something more than just expirings for Noce when/if the time comes.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
You would be giving up Cisco for Cisco's contract
Sorry I didn’t get the joke.
For a bench player without anywhere to play Cisco has a terrible contract. He is a great player, but like I said, Martin and Evans get all of the minutes at the 2 and Nocioni, Casspi and Greene get all of the minutes at the 3.
Cisco is underrated
He provides a skill set across 1, 2, and 3. He provides more depth and options. Given that, his value is not too far from his contract price. Otherwise why would you want him.
Hey you don't have to tell me.
Cisco is WAY underrated. As I have said many times on this site and on other sites, he does alot of things well if nothing spectacular. That coupled with his toughness and good locker room persona make him a good pickup.
My argument is that for you guys, his contract doesn’t have much value at all relative to the value he would have on a team with weak wings liek the Hornets. As for trading him, I think many folks view him as a bench player, but on the Hornets he could be a definite, useful starter. It is kind of like Salmons all over again.
Another example is Darren Collison who is having a fantastic year, but whose value is mitigated because he plays with the best point guard in the league. Same goes for the Dude from N.C. playing for Denver whose name I currently forget.
You seem to think we're still desperate to dump money
I’m not so sure the shoe isn’t on the other foot.
As Mustang says, Cisco has incredible value as a 6th man across 3 positions and could definately start at the 2 guard for a lot of teams -(I think he’s a little small for an 82 game starter at SF, too many long SF out there these days) even ours if some KM for a stud interior player deal went down.
(though I resist the idea)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
This isn't a desperation move on your part.
I think people are misunderstanding the value of Peja’s expiring contract. This wouldn’t be a move that saves you money (although that isn’t a terrible idea with all of the quality youth on your team that you will have to eventually pay). This is a move to convert long term contracts into a short term bargaining chip.
The idea is that you could couple some picks or some of your players and cap space WITH Peja’s contract in a sign and trade or straight up trade for all star quality talent.
It IS a desperation move on the Hornet’s part that unloads a little money this year and next year. If the Hornets had more time to build a team around CP then they would just sit on Peja’s contract and wait to use it next year, but they don’t. We need to develop a team that can play in the 2010-2011 year so that we have a contender by time CP has the option to opt out.
That can’t happen just with draft picks especially because what we need is more about skill (defense, three point shooting) then about athleticism. So we need to get vets, and in the short term we need to cut costs. That is what this move does for us.
But I go back to relative value. He is a good player but he is underrated, and will continue to be so on a team this is as wing heavy as your team.
Its the two years left on Peja
that just won’t work. No takers for you until (maybe) summer I’d think.
Overriding that as I said earlier is that the Kings franchise is trying to move forward, the casual fan (ticket buying) would see it as a step back whatever the realities down the road.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
In and Out
sounds good right now. Double Double animal style with animal friess. gooooood eats
Punjabi by Nature
By the time Peja's contract is up,
Noc is owed only $14 million over two years, Garcia $18 million over three. I could almost justify this deal if Peja were expiring contract this year, but not two years at almost $28 million.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
There is a benefit to having the expring the year before.
Because in the offseason you can include a contract like that in a sign and trade.
I think people are not realizing the value of Peja’s contract here. Also he can stil lplay just not at the level he used to.
Additionally, Cisco and Noc’s contract account for an additional 18 million dollars at wing positions that you already have covered. It’s a complete wast of money.
18 million?
What? Over the years you mean? Anyway, as has been pointed out by Pookey and others, BYC player (Cisco) deals just don’t get worked out. Its Noce and perhaps (not so sure) one of Sergio/Beno contracts that the Kings might want to move.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
check my reply to Pookey's post.
It works because of the wiggle room in high value contracts IF you through in Sean May or Udoka.
And yes 18 million over 4 years. The benefit though isnt’s in the money you save, it is in spending that money on people with more value to your club.
I'm not seeing it
A trade of slightly overpaid players that can still produce for a horrid contract attached to a breaking down player. With all due respect, if Peja’s contract is going to smell like roses next year, keep it for yourself and enjoy.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Blockbuster Trade Idea from David Thorpe chat
This idea was tossed out today on the ESPN chat. Here it is:
KIngs trade:
Kevin Martin
Andres Noccioni
Sergio Rodriguez
Jazz trade:
Andre Kirilenko
2010 #1 Unprotected Pick (from NY)
Eric Maynor
Kyle Korver
Note: I had to add Sergio to make this trade work under the cap. Through ESPN trade machine, this trade is successful.
Quick Analysis: I am more interested in the basketball side than the financials, but Kirilenko is owed a ridiculous sum of $33 million over this year and next. Noccioni’s contract is palatable for the Jazz. Teaming up K-Mart with Deron Williams in backcourt and ridding themselves of the albatross of AK47 contract to resign Boozer and/or other free agent this off-season would be their motivation.
Why would we do it? If the Knicks continue to tank, we are looking at a likely Top 5 pick, perhaps #1, which could mean John Wall or the missing big man we need (the final piece?). Potentially we would have two lottery picks. AK-47 is an upgrade from Noccioni, IMO. Eric Maynor has more upside than Sergio, has a 3:1 assist/TO ratio as a rookie, and is a StR player favorite.
I am not sure about this deal, but any trade that could nab us another superstar in the making like Tyreke, whether that is John Wall, Derick Favors, or other emerging one-and-done collegiate, is certainly intriguing to consider.
I love Kevin Martin
But I do this deal. Worst case scenario, AK47 becomes tasty expiring contract. And we basically get what appears to be a top five pick for Kevin Martin. This probably gives us two lottery picks and a huge expiring contract, along with a bunch of young up and coming players. Assets, assets, assets!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
John Wall, Evans, Greene, Derrick Favors, Thompson
with Maynor, Beno, Casspi, Hawes off the bench?
Wet dream.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
I believe thats the definition of wet dream.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I would do this trade in a heartbeat
I think Utah would have to consider it too. Deron Williams and Kevin Martin would instantly become the best backcourt in the entire league, Nocioni is a Jerry Sloan type player, and Sergio would be a capable backup to Maynor, as well as being an expiring contract. This trade also saves them a bit of money if I’m correct.
On the Kings side, Kirilenko is a good player, definitely fits with our new toughness mantra, and will be a very nice trade chip next year. The real acquisition in this trade is the NY Pick which is almost definitely going to be a top 5 pick, in a draft that is full of players of our biggest need, Bigs. Korver’s an expiring and I think we’ll let him expire. All jokes aside, Maynor is actually a very talented player (6.5 points, 3.3 assists to 1.0 turnover, 1 rebound and .6 steals in 16 mpg is not bad) and he’ll be a cheap and valuable backup to Reke and Beno for the next 3 years.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I was a fan of Maynor's predraft
But, that was when I hoped we’d get Griffin and Maynor would be around at #23. Right now, among guards, Sergio is 8th in assts per 48 and Maynor is 11th. In Asst/TO ratio there about dead even, at 16th & 17th amoung guards. So, Sergio for Maynor looks to be a wash right now, but I don’t see either one having a greater upside than the other.
The Kings get out from under Noc’s contract by exchanging Martin for AK47 & Korver, so that a good deal. But, what it really boils down to is trading Martin for a top 6 or 7 draft pick.
It doen’t sound like Utah is saving money & I thought that getting under the salary cap was a big thing for them. Their basicly exchanging Kirilenko’s $33M over two year for Martin & Noc’s $64M over 4 years. They get a SG and a backup for AK47, but can they afford it?
If I’m Utah, I think I let Kirilenkos contract expire. I’m losing Korver & Boozer next year anyways. I keep the NY pick & Maynor, and trade for a SG with one of my herd of centers.
If I’m Sac, I might be able to move Noc for an expiring anyways, so the money isn’t a big player in this deal. It’s a chip , but the real discision is can I get a future center out of the draft for Martin. And, are Beno & Maynor, the PG’s I need to play along side Tyreke playing SG.
I don’t think Utah goes for it because of the money. I’m chicken so I always play it safe. I wouldn’t do the deal. I still think we’re top 10 pick anyways, which gives us a outside chance at to 3. Even with 2 top 10 picks we’re still years away from going deep into the playoffs.
I like Martin, Tyreke, Beno, & Sergio, Omri, Greene JT, & Spencer. You hope we get what we need in the draft or clear enough cap space to get help there. That’s a 10 person rotation that I can live with for another year.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I don't think Utah gives up that NY pick Period
as much as we (and everyone!) may want it. That said, AK47 is a player I’ve always admired, who i think might be even better in a more wide open offense such as PWs.
Does Fesenko fit into the Eric Maynor slot?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Eric Maynor.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Dec 4, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
THE Eric Maynor
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
i love
The Jazz Idea, and i <3 Kyle Korver off the bench But i would like to see the KMart/Evans combo first; Hell it might be even better than we think
Fair enough
But Jason Richardson was worth a #8 pick, Ray Allen a #5 pick. Getting a top five pick for Martin would be pretty nice.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And what are the odds you think that the Jazz give that pick up unprotected?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I wonder if it's legal to put protection on another team's pick that you own if you want to trade it away
Hmm, FAQ time.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Great question
And didn’t Utah get the pick ultimately from Phoenix on the Tom Guggliotta and Keon Clark trade?
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
You know
Let me check on that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
According to DX
It’s via Phoenix, so you’re probably correct.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I actually looked it up a couple weeks ago
because we were talking about it at work. Phoenix got the pic originally in the trade that sent Starbury to NY. Then Phoenix turned around and moved it to Utah
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
You people must not work LOl
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
It was a very important conversation
We had to discuss how bad of a GM Isiah Thomas was. Everything else had to wait
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I can see that
Very important indeed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Do they know you post here?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Funny thing is that nobody would have noticed it if New York wasn't so chronically awful
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
They are also awful because of what Isiah did
He did an awesome all around job at setting that franchise back some good years
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
That's true ed
But it’s not like Isiah inherited a great situation either. Building a winning team in New York through the draft is hard because fans are totally brutal about it. Or, management thinks so.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
That's true too
I think they are at least tryng to make up for it now. Of course, it would’ve helped if they would’ve picked Jennings instea of Hill.
It’s still NY and at least they have a plan now.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I don't know
I don’t know how successful Jennings would have been in New York because they were so afraid of him not working out. Walsh & D’Antoni didn’t want to take he risk of Jennings because of how little he had played in Italy (in their view).
I don’t know that Jennings goes in the top 20 if Milwaukee doesn’t take him. Seriously.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I really wonder why people use hindsight after a month in the season
Nobody around here was saying New York fucked up on draft night. (I know I wasn’t. LOL) I think, though, that Milwaukee and Scott Skiles did frame the Jennings pick as one of a high risk/high reward type.
I can guarantee you ed that if Jonny Flynn had been available to the Knicks, he would have been snatched up at 8.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I would've really see that happening
And it’s true, we won;t know the real impact of this draft for years down the road. We are less than 20 games into the season and the number 1 pick hasn’t even played yet.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Not only that
But I also thought few teams were capable of making a rookie G of looking good. Every high G pick really wanted to go to one team out of all the lottery teams: the Kings. Ricky Rubio wanted to play here, Jonny Fllynn auditioned, Brandon Jennings made a specific stop herre cuz of the 4th pick, and Steph Curry too.
Tha’ts what happens when you get top 5 picks in a draft like this. The Kings used it greatly to their advantage. In hindsight, they got more information about these players than other teams did (I think).
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I think you hit on something there
We know money talks. And I’m sure the 4th pick was louder than Signman in his flashy costumes.
Not only that
but also the chance to play. Sac being the worst team in the league at the time and having a huge hole at PG (howlong that seems now) was a perfect spot for many of these young Gs.
They were going to get minutes and probably the chance to shine because the talent on this team just wasn’t there.
Of course, that was so last season.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Jinx :)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
It's not just the money
It was the opportunity. How many rosters in this league desperately need a talented G to fit along an All-Star caliber SG and some quality players on the front line? Nobody else really had that type of situation in the draft, and as such you heard Rubio, Flynn, Jennings, Curry, and Evans talk about the situation here as being a quality one.
I don’t really think Curry ever had a chance of being drafted here, but I also think he and the Kings took advantage of the workout process to see what each other was like.
Again, that’s the beauty of having a draft like the 4th overall pick with a roster that had promise on it as the Kings did. Plus, the Kings management team knew what Paul Westphal’s philosophy was when he was hired, and they incorporated it into finding a player they all thought would be successful in building a team that would win games.
This became a more successful franchise June 9th.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I Know
Curry never had a chance from my GP conversation. It was clear as day – especially in retrospect.
Whether that was about matching up with KM or just knowing he liked Tyreke and jennings more – I don’t know, but GP was almost dismissive of the idea.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I never liked Jordan Hill
Along with harden I thought they were the two most overrated players in the draft and both belonged in the ’teens somewhere.
The story isn’t finished on either yet but . . . .
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
I was with you there.
I watched way too much Pac-10 basketball to be a fan of either. Harden was a decent college player, but it was clear he lacked the athleticism to be a terror on the pro level (always had to use the off arm to throw people out of his way in college).
That's a big dropoff
I think someone was going to take the chance. At that point in the drat you’re less scared of making a mistake, especially with how this draft was perceived as a weak one.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
And they're always wrong
That’s why it’s better to form your own opinions rather than listening and giving too much weight to others. I go to ESPN mostly for stuff that we have no way of having access to.
Opinions and analysis? There’s some good one, but I also find that here to be completely honest.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
It Was weak
at every position but PG
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
I think Jeff Green has worked out for the Thunder pretty well
I dont’ think Brandan Wright has done much for the Warriors, but he’s hurt a lot.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
And we have a good GM making the pick
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
You don't think Sam Presti is a good GM?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I do
and if we were to make that type of trade we’re in good hands. More of a response to kwill’s concern
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I see
My bad.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Ed
I totally agree we’re in good hands with GP. I would however like to see KM and Reke play 10-15 games together before I would pull the trigger before the deadline.
Me too
I don’ think we’re actively advocating for such trade, it’s more about putting value on Kevin. You know how some think everyone here loves him and wouldn’t trade him? Well, most here would, if it’s for right package. The Jazz idea may be one of those cases
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Casspi can play the 2
But Donte is better at it. (That’s my opinion anyway.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Casspi > Donte
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
As of today I think there's no doubt
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
That would be a tall and long starting lineup
Hawes
JT
Andre
Casspi, Donte
Reke
Very good defense on the perimeter
Don't forget the pick though
But I guess you;retalking this year. I really don’t care for Kirilenko (too up and down) especially at that price but like section said above: it’s all about assets.
I think Reke nd Kevin will work so I don’t think any of this happens but that won’t stop some crazy trade ideas from being thrown around.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Is all about value
Thorpe also said in his chat that the Kings org value Kevin a lot, I think he said “a step behind the best 15 players in the league or something like that.”
If it was up to me, the only way I give up Kevin Martin it’s if we get a guaranteed high pick back or as part of a package that nets us a proven (maybe up-and-coming)star ala Bosh or Granger
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I like Bosh too like most people
I just have reservations about his tendency to play outside alot. I dont watch him that much so maybe my thought are wrong….
I've been a big fan since te Olympics
I remember watching him hustle and working the boards while Bron, Melo, Wade, and Kobe were taking the spotlight. On a great team, but low on bigs, he did a great job.
I’ve never really put too much thought on how he would work with this team but I don’t see how he wouldn’t fit. My only concern is that he probably wants to get a max contract and I think he’s just a small notch under that.
All talk of course as I don’t think Toronto would go for that unless we send Kevin and JT, and with fear of overvaluing our guys, I don’t think I’d do that.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I wouldn't either
I want to wait and see how JT pans out (though he could move to Center). Now if they took K9 and Spence then I would drive to Toronto myself drop them off (though K9 would have to sit in the bed of my truck) and bring Bosh back. ;)
Haha
I just think that if you can get Bosh;s production from JT for half the price plus being able to keep Kevin, it’s a bit of a no brainer (at least for me). I’m sure there’s some good counter arguments to that.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I meant 75% of Bosh's prod from JT
for half the price
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
JT can play Center
Really Does play Center.
JR thinks its his best position, so that thought may (or may not)be shared by the Kings braintrust.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
I've never heard JR mention that JT's best position will be C
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
He did in a response
to Peaches the other night
‘well I think Center may be his best position’something like that – and I believe he said it during a game once before.
Was it just chit-chat? no idea.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Right now (if all things remain the same for New York)
The pick Utah has via New York could range from #1 to #6
Retread on Trade
Kings Gets
Predrag Stojakovic $14,202,000 $15,336,000 $0 $0 $0
Emeka Okafor $10,538,937 $11,540,375 $12,541,812 $13,543,250 $14,544,687
$24,740,937 $26,876,375 $12,541,812 $13,543,250 $14,544,687
Hornets Get
Francisco Garcia $5,800,000 $5,500,000 $5,800,000 $6,100,000 $6,400,000
Kenny Thomas $8,553,125 $0 $0 $0 $0
Sean May $984,881 $0 $0 $0 $0
Matt Harpring $6,500,000 $0 $0 $0 $0
$21,838,006 $5,500,000 $5,800,000 $6,100,000 $6,400,000
Jazz Get
Andres Nocioni $7,500,000 $6,850,000 $6,650,000 $7,500,000 $0
With actual playing players – Kings are basically trading :
K9 for Okafor
Noc for Peja for 1 year instead of 3 (Next year he is major trade bait)
Hornets get major cap relief and all they need to do is take on 1 4year contract with a pretty decent player who doesn’t cost that much compared to okafor
Due to Harpring basically saying he’s done, they need a guy they can count on at forward which is where Noc comes in- Hornet’s get Hapring’s cap relief and Jazz get a great forward for 1 million extra.
Even with Francisco’s BYC this trade does work I think a lot of fans would love to see Peja home at Arco even for a year. I also think Spencer needs someone to learn from and I think Okafor is our best bet right now even with his cost. With this deal Okafor is basically the same cost as Noc and Garcia except in year 5 when he will be good trade bait as expiring and only really cost us 8.15 million if we don’t trade him off.
Judgment day is coming!
Haha thanks for actually responding to my trade
Honestly, the Hornet’s budget woes have been a bit overblown. That Okafor trade rumor came straight out of Sacto. You rarely hear about Hornet’s trade rumors until they happen because htey keep stuff close to the vest.
Meka hasn’t meshed well with West yet, but he is still a top 15 center, a good center on both ends, and a high character guy. Good centers are really tough to find, and they are worth more than expiring contracts.
Tyson was a little different because of three reasons. 1) His injuries and 2) if the Hornets had traded him for those expiring contracts it would have helped us in the short term becuase Wilcox and Smith were healthy and 3) we would have had the ability to get a big in the offseason with our expiring contracts (about 12 million dollars worth) and ourpicks. We could have gotten Dalembert, Diop, or Camby with that cash.
I'm still trying to figure where that rumor came from
You don’t know the Sac management. We don’t hear ANYTHING about trades or drafts until they’re done. My guess is it came from the media on a slow news day.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Thee only reason I think it came from Sacto is...
You guys are looking for a big. I think rumor ,even if it wasn’t a realstic trade was a good way to put out there that you guys are shopping. You have a big expiring contract and cap space as a bargaining chip.
That’s what almost got the Dalembert deal done, and that let’s GM’s know that they may have an option in Sacto if they are trying to unload a big.
I'd think of every proposal like that with the Kings
Unless it returns us a Big man or a very good draft pick – its unlikely.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
That is way too much money for the Kings to take on
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
know your facts!
We take on an extra 14 million for 1 year(next year) other then that the money is equal to K9, Cisco, Noc and sean may see chart here
Kings contracts in Noce, May, K9 and Cisco
2009 – $22,838,006
2010 – $12,350,000
2011 – $12,450,000
2012 – $13,600,000
2013 – $6,400,000
Kings With Peja and Okafor
2009 – $24,740,937
2010 – $26,876,375
2011 – $12,541,812
2012 -$13,543,250
2013 -$14,544,687
Which makes extra payroll for us each of the years come out to:
2009 – $1,902,931
2010 – $14,526,375
2011 – $91,812
2012 – Negative $56,750(Means cheaper this year then other contracts above)
2013 -$8,144,687
So you pay and extra 14.25 million for one year (Which he would be a great expiring for good player/draft picks next year) and gives us a great center with only really losing Nocioni and Garcia (if he plays as well after broken arm) Which for cap space for good players(especially if this team does become good and we get attendance up, I can see us grabbing up a great free agent. ) and a great center i am willing to do this.
Judgment day is coming!
Too bad
You wouldn’t be getting a “great” center.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think this helps Sac enough
You make some good points about having the wings covered and all that, but taking on an older player when we have moved on who won’t fill any of the holes we have is just not enough.
We are not just looking to the future and trying to position for winning at some future time. So, expiring and tradeable expirings are not enough. We want to win NOW. We want to move forward filling the holes we have in our roster so we can be a more complete team and win more games.
We are no longer willing to sit back and lose. We know that we are a better and more talented team than we were last year and that we can win more games this season than even we thought possible six months ago.
So, thanks but no thanks. Older players that you don’t want and that have basically untradeable contracts are no longer going to be good enough. We are trading to compete now. Not later.
And you think Hawes is our starting Center vs other great centers. Sorry when i see him go against the a decent center hes gets backed down and damn near run over . Spencer’s gonna take at least another year until hes good enough.
Judgment day is coming!
And we are in winning-now mode
so it’s impossible to wait
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Thats why i am saying get Okafor now..Center is our biggest weakness and we need to fill that gaping hole (TWSS). Even if not for the peja trade, I think Okafor is the best big we will see for a while out there that we can fill that spot while giving spencer some time to grow into the position Can you tell me anyone else(Draft not included) we see coming availible in the next 2 years? I dont see many of the great Centers being traded around a lot just because when you get one you hold onto it..If NO wants K9 +1 cheap(no rookies) to make the deal, DO eeeet now! Get in the chopper!
Judgment day is coming!
I think you missed my sarcasm
We are NOT in winning-now mode. I know this team is doing well but we are still rebuilding. We (most likely) still have another lottery pick coming next year to add to this young roster and have some flexibility to make some trades this coming February and during the summer.
You statement just doesn’t make sense. If Spencer is really just going to take one more year until he’s good enough then we are in great shape. Funny thing is that you are very optimistic by saying he’s only a year away but then follow by saying we can’t wait that much time.
I think Hawes is still a couple years from been able to hold his own against the big time Cs in the league. We don’t even know if he’ll get there and I say this being a fan of his. But that doesn’t mean you have o give away your financial flexibility for someone to cover for him while he gets better. Sorry but your premise seems wrong to me
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
So do you keep him and wait or go for a different big and put him as back up? Do we draft another nig and have to wait until they are ready and just be mediocre there? This team is lacking in inside presence and i think that can make a difference on close games. I think he is one year away from being good not great thats the huge difference..Can you play with a good center, yes but dont expect to see him stop penetration or get enough rebounds. Sacramento has to be in winning mode now due to low attendance, rare to no national attention and as always threats of moving the team. You get wins, get national coverage, get sellouts and then you have a better chance at new arena and keeping them here. I just dont think spencer should be a centyer for the next 2 years at least. Can you name anyone else we could get instead of Okafor for a decent contract this year. Looking around theres not much i can see out there for what other teams want.
Judgment day is coming!
Win-now mode means winning a championship at all costs
We don;t even have enough talent to make the playoffs right now. The kids need time to develop and you’re getting way too ahead of yourself.
I understand your concer about the team leaving but if the recent play is not putting butts in the seats then I don’t know what will. And believe me, Emeka Okafor is not going to get anyone excited about buying season tickets.
Again, I understand your concern but IMO you are letting that dictate your reasoning and it doesn’t work like that.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
one again if you do feel this way about hawes (About same i do i think) please answer question: Can you name anyone else we could get instead of Okafor for a decent contract this year. Looking around theres not much i can see out there for what other teams want.
Judgment day is coming!
I'll bite
I really don’t see anyone to be honest. Maybe Dalembert but I don’t think we should go for that either. Maybe Gortat, but we don’t have anything Orlando wants. Hell, even NOLA seems to be ok with keeping Okafor.
Now, answer a question for me. Let’s say we get Okafor for K-9. Where does that leave this team? Playoffs? What seed?
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Seeing where we are at right now i am thinking maybe if at best a 7-8 seed, but enough to get some excitement back to Arco. Don’t get me wrong even when this kings sucks I still love em to death, would just like to see a move for a great player and they only way right now i see of doing that is through sign and trade (not free agency for really big names.)
This is a list of centers that may or may not be worth looking at. Not sure which of these guys teams are willing to trade or are going to resign but maybe you can help with this. I am trying to get a feel for who is out there and which teams might be willing to trade. Honestly never really looked at free agency until this year when joining here, but I am very glad to have all this helpful knowledge from everyone here. Am trying to learn more here so please bear with me. Please let me know if any of these guys are viable. I left off most Superstar centers and teams with only 1 true center.(Like us!)
Team/Player/Owed left all years
1 Year contracts
Cleveland / Zydrunas Ilgauskas $11,541,074
NY / Darko Milicic $7,500,000
NY/ David Lee $7,000,000
Orlando / Adonal Foyle $1,306,455
Clippers / Marcus Camby $7,650,000
2 Year contracts
Indiana / Jeff Foster / 2 / $12,732,500
Dallas / Erick Dampier / 2 / $23,187,500
Portland / Joel Przybilla / 2 / $13,993,025
Philly / Samuel Dalembert / 2 / $23,560,000
3 Year contracts
Clippers / Chris Kaman / 3 / $33,900,000
4 Year contracts
Indiana / Roy Hibbert / 4 / $9,504,319
5 Year contracts
Orlando / Marcin Gortat / 5 / $33,953,200
G.S./ Andris Biedrins / 5 / $45,000,000
NO / Emeka Okafor / 5 / $62,709,061
Judgment day is coming!
I like Foster the best
off that list. But I doubt if the Pacers are eager to get rid of him for what we’d be willing to offer (some combo of Nocioni, Thomas, Garcia, Beno and filler). Although maybe they’d like to free up some PT for Hansbrough if it appears they are going nowhere.
Maybe if they need a point guard as bad as everyone was saying, they might be interested in Beno.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
As I pointed out the other day
Thay have ridiculous money tied up in PGs right now, more than 1/3 of thier payroll – and for what?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
That's an ok list IMO
Aside from maybe David Lee, who for all his positives has many negatives, and Kaman, and his high price tag, I don’t see anyone that interests me.
The problem with manking a move for a big guy making decent money, wolf, is that you may be losing any financial flexibility going forward. It’s possible that after making that move, you’re pretty much done and will have to go to war with that team.
If you’re looking to be a 7th, 8th seed, then I guess that’s fine. But I personally dream of winning one of those shiny rings at the end of the season sometime in the future. We’re only one year into our rebuilding effort; we just got rid of most veterans las t year. We gotta have a bit more patience unless a no brainer deal comes our way.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I too would love one of those shiny rings too, but with current team this year, we aint gettign that. I am just hopeful we go over .500,
I just look at Hawes vs most of the guys and i see we can do better for now until he does improve.
Looking at financial flexibility what about one of the expiring guys for our expiring. New york has 3 expiring centers and if we can offer same amount in expiring so they can still be going after free agency players . I don’t think they will be resigning all three
Judgment day is coming!
Sorry wolf I'm still a bit lost
Of course we ain’t gettng rings with the current team that’s why we need to wait a bit more to make moves that would get us closer to a finish product. If we ain’t even making the playofs this year then why make rush decisions?
Again, I’m not against moves to improve this team and I’m convinced next years draft is all about a big man, but right now, we don’t even know what we have. IMO, we have to look at the bigger picture, not just try to improve in the short run and sacrifice long term flexibility and success.
I think we both agree this team needs to improve, we just disagree in the timing.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
I have a feeling
that they may indeed make a move for another big man. But probably not until after the new year -
And then add one in the draft.
That makes me think they’d rather go with a Kaman for the fewer years or a Gortat for the I think excellent value over his contract.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
That's a lof of $$ though
11 mil per year for 3 years of Kaman or 6.5 mil per year for 5 years of Gortat.
Cs are really overpaid in this league
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Always have been
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
I think money is going to get tighter
and players are not going to get paid that much. I wouldn’t want to be locked on old contratcs that are more expensive. We’ll see where we get that upgrade from.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
My other problem is if Spencer goes down , who do we have..K9, Brockman and May..sorry no we need another center now before that happens and we are in a desperation situation where others can take advantage of us. I do suppose JT can back it up there but i would rather see him at the 4 and go against other 4’s.
Judgment day is coming!
This I do feel strongly about
You bring up a good point but if Hawes goes down how mnay more games are we going to lose? Are we missing the playoffs because he goes down?
This is another rebuilding year and this team’s future will not be affected if we lose an extra 5 games, just like it won’t be affected if we win an extra 5 games. What would nefatively affect our future is tying out money on players with big contracts just to try to get a couple more wins or get the 7th or 8th seed right away. We could probably make the playoffs next year with this same roster
(+ another lottery pick) and a bit better health. I call for patience, but that’s me.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree wolf.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Ok so how about just renting one for a year then. We dont have to ty up our financial well being with a huge 5 year contract. I just dont like not having a backup big and i think almost anyone on that list above is worth at least going after seeing as they are about even if not better then Hawes. Honestly what would we be giving up besides expirings for expirinings. Then maybe we sign K9 up for a year after he expires
Cleveland / Zydrunas Ilgauskas $11,541,074
NY / Darko Milicic $7,500,000
NY/ David Lee $7,000,000
Orlando / Adonal Foyle $1,306,455
Clippers / Marcus Camby $7,650,000
Judgment day is coming!
I understand your position wolf
and respect it. It sucks being thin up front and I guess I wouldn’t mind a better player coming off the bench.
I just don’t think this year is that important in terms of record so I guess I don’t mind keeping the roster the way it is unless we get rid of some of the long term commitments like Noce for example.
Again, appreciate your point of view but I still think we disagree on a couple things whcih is no biggie. Thanks for actually continuing the conversation. Some people don’t even do that when they disagree.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
And I appreciate your great points of view, and taking your time sharing it.
I just see how much more this team could be if not for the missed inside points ..and after tonight’s fiasco the FT shooting.
To me it really seems Spencer cant decide if he wants to play at full steam or not and its a different story each night. Is it they play him too much or that the other teams are just getting in his head. Not sure but with young guys like him, i think we really need a veteran center there for him, and i think with how streaky this team is and with no veteran (besides K9) to really get these guys heads on straight . I see noc doing it some and beno too at times,, but just not enough.
I know that should be the coach’s job, but you need your guy on the floor to handle it while they are playing. This team just looks to unorganized at times and i think a vet can help get the pieces straight.
Judgment day is coming!
Although I'm not in on all of this
I agree that Spence needs a vet to take some pressure off. The new expectations are in his head.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 7, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Oh and completely agree on getting rid of a long term contract such as a Noc or a Beno or a Garcia(You all know I am not as big of a fan of Garcia as most people here.)
If we could trade off one of these guys for a decent starting or back up center,. My mind would be a bit more relieved. My thought is some one like a straight across trade for maybe Camby for Noc considering they only have 4 guys locked up in contracts past this year (Davis, Griffin, Jordon and Kaman for about 28m) they might be willing to do something like this seeing as they have 2 other centers and Skinner (F/C) and no other forwards locked in, Noc might be a great deal for them.
Judgment day is coming!
I think like lltg said
Spencer is a victim of his own expectations. He’s asked to do everything, defend the best post player every night, be the main helper protecting the basket, develop a post game, run the high post, shoot outside. Seriously, what don’t we ask Spencer to do? Bring the ball up the court is about it.
The game’s still happening to Spencer most of the time, he doesn’t have a firm foundation on a lot yet. I am pretty hopeful it will get better, try to be patient.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
condone/condemn
are opposites by the way
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 9, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Not always -
(Mrs. section 214 in her most syrupy sarcastic voice) – “If you want to go ahead and do that, it’s fine with me…”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
marriage
changes the definition of many a thing
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 12, 2009 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
If we were eager to shed Cisco's contract, this might make sense
but I don’t think we are. So it’s really downgrading Nocioni to Peja and we have to give up Cisco to downgrade. Makes no sense to me. I believe we’ll be able to move Nocioni for expirings near the deadline if we so choose. So why give away Cisco for the “benefit” of paying Peja next year?
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
I really dont think Peja is a downgrade to Noc. Pers of 12.5 to 12.2. Not only that but you are getting cap relief and you also gotta think the maloofs are thinking of winning now. This gives us a guy who can play now, it also means that we have a expiring next year which would be great for any missing pieces that we see we need this year or right before the draft. I know its a large contract but also remember how much money they are saving in the future. That and peja’s is just one more guy who i think can help this team by getting doubled more. Maybe he needs westphal for a resurgence..look at Greene!
Judgment day is coming!
Not just no
Even if it is just about an equal trade of Noc for Peja, which is arguable, the money involved is far from equal. Peja cost way more and we can trade Noc for better and at a later time after Garcia is back to provide more depth.
Also, there is no way that Peja can play the D that is Noc’s hallmark and Peja is too prone to hurting his back. Peja was one of my favorite players, not just no way. Hell no.
The Kings don't do this
Because the theme is "moving on – the past is over – new beginning’ – whatever!
It would be depressing watching Peja’s final days, something no one wants.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
For me Peja is a downgrade
because Noc is a better defender, is more durable and he can play the 4. Peja was my favorite player when he was with the Kings, but in my opinion Nocioni is much more valuable to this team at this time than Peja would be, and thus I see it as a downgrade.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 4, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
He was also my favorite player
Which is why I have the 16 next to my username.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Ah, I'm commiting that one to memory for "StR Trivia Night"
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 4, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
I couldn't do the trade as proposed
Peja is a useless player, at least to this Kings team, he’s basically a $24mil expiring contract, that you have to wait a year to get value for, and then you only get half of the value.
As for adding Kevin Martin for West and Thornton, no thanks. I’m sure I don’t value David West as highly as the Hornets do.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
Plus I see JT as being better than West eventually.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
word
Those three inches are going to matter in the long run, and the hustle is effervescent.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Thats what she said!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Too easy
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 5, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for the honest comments guys.
It’s always good to get a respone from other teams and I think this was a good discussion about where you guys think you are now and where you are headed. Again good luck this season, and look on the horizon for another random trade idea.
At StR, randomness is always welcome
Purple boobie nachos.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 4, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
(un)Surprisingly delicious.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Dec 4, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
kmart 4 dwest/thornton?
i’d do it w/o thinking twice. Tyreke is better @2 than 1. Getting an all star PF is not exactly an easy thing. JT and Hawes are nice but also foul prone, young, inexerienced. Now a 3 man rotation of those guys (plus donte greene/nocioni/caspi in a small lineup) is niiice
I think West > Martin
But we’re not exactly awash in guards at the moment. I’d love to get West for Nocioni or Garcia and whatever fillers are necessary.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 6:55 PM PST reply actions
No way in hell I'd do this deal
But that’s me.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I'm with you.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Stop agreeing with me you two
You know what happens when folks around here are accused of creating a StR bourgeoisie.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Agreed
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 4, 2009 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Well played
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Dec 4, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Agreed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Who's on first?
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
Mark McGwire I think.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Which deal are we talking about?
West for Nocioni or Garcia and whatever fillers are necessary?
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
I can't go along with David West
Our slots for nifty scoring big men, that don’t intimidate anyone are filled on this team.
Spencer this year has higher eFG% and TS% than West’s historical averages and is almost an identical rebounder. Plus Spencer is 7ft tall and 21 years old still on his first contract, not 29 like West.
I think I don’t have to work hard to make the case David West isn’t a big upgrade over JT.
Supposedly, we could get Okefor for K9’s contract. Yes, he’s somewhat overpaid, but I’d much rather do that than give up Martin to get West. If we’re talking something we’d just as happy be rid of, like Nocioni, then I could see it, but NO isn’t going to go there. Okefor at least brings something we don’t have, which is legit interior defense.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
Scoring vs. Intimidation
Our slots for nifty scoring big men, that don’t intimidate anyone are filled on this team.
West is probably good for 4-8 points a game more than our current “nifty scoring big men.” Of course, they seem to be improving and they’re certainly a lot younger and cheaper.
You could also replace “guards” for “big men” in that statement and also be accurate.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:45 AM PST reply actions
I like the idea of dealing
Nocioni for Okafor….this gets the Hornets under the LTT for the next two seasons(our cap space absorbs the difference in contracts), cuts the total contract of Okafor in half all while maintaining another solid, versatile vet forward to help them compete in the here and now.
The Kings add a lot of financial obligations but get that third big man that complements are frontcourt without heaving on 40 Million additional dollars, it’s rather 22 million dollars of additional financial commitment, making it a lot more palatable.
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