The Reformation of Donte Greene
by Ziller on Dec 4, 2009 2:51 AM PST
in Commentary
51 comments
"Ask me to be excused, I won't go die politely"
-- Fugazi, "Dear Justice Letter"
***
If Donté Greene flared out like Quincy Douby, it would have been disappointing. Greene was basically one half of the Ron Artest trade, and while getting "something" for Artest wasn't exactly required to justify trading Artest, given the circumstances, getting "something" was important for the mental health of both the Sacramento front office and the fans of the team. With no offense to Kenny Thomas, Shelden Williams or Andres Nocioni, the trades of most aging Kings starters haven't resulted in a ton of promise. The Chris Webber trade brought established, lesser players. The Mike Bibby trade brought Williams (who didn't pan out here, but will apparently stick in the league) and cap space. The Brad Miller/John Salmons trade brought cap space and Nocioni, who happens to be a really solid roleplayer, but one which is closer to the end of his career than the beginning, and one who will never be consider above-average in his current position as a starting small forward.
Greene is something, and that's not a small thing, especially considering his positioning both last season (as one of the league's worst players statistically, and a player who didn't exactly lay waste to the D-League during his five-game stint in Reno) and through this year's training camp, during which coach Paul Westphal was publicly dismissive and privately aggravated by Greene's game. Particularly, it's what Greene is that is a bit amazing.
Greene hasn't become an NBA player by scoring 30 points a couple of times. He hasn't turned into the tall edition of J.R. Smith, or even Casey Jacobson. He has, instead, focused his attention of offensive control and defensive energy. Turnovers aside, the Wednesday night game against Indiana is an apt example: Donté's two best plays were an alley oop finish and the game-sealing steal of a Pacers inbounds pass. Greene attacked on both ends, and he earned two highlights for his effort. Even beyond that, the fact that Westphal inserted Greene for defensive purposes ... and it wasn't a Douby-takes-the-potential-gamewinner concession. Westphal felt that Donté needed to be on the court on key defensive possessions in order for the Kings to have their best chance at winning. That's a huge leap forward, on December 2, of a season in which opening night expectations for the player could not have been lower.
Everyone with the team is quick to credit both Greene and assistant coach Mario Elie. There's time for that in the future. I'm just glad there's something here, with Donté, and I can't wait to see how it unfolds.
4 recs |
51 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Yes
When PW put in Donte on a critical play for DEFENSE, I was very happy, especially when Donte rewarded that trust.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
The steal was amazing.
I was nearly screaming. Huge play and Donte is great to put on the imbounder.
In NBA terms: Ontogeny does not necessarily recapitulate phylogeny - the draft proves this year in and year out
(hey, if you are quoting Fugazi I can bring in the Meckel-Serres Law)
it is both confidence and luck – the idiocy/genius theorum that coaches are subjected to
IF Quincy Douby hits one, two or three of his game winning shots THEN the coach is a genius, hence Quincy Douby is on his way up
IF Quincy Douby misses all of these shots (and looks lost doing it) THEN the coach is a moron, hence Quincy Douby is on his way out
Donté Greene has had his chances – to his credit – he has shown enough flint to drive a spark, with occassional bursts of fire.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 6, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
After seeing that play,
it feels like Donté could be our version of Lamar Odom. In the playoffs last year whenever the L*kers’ opponent had a critical inbounds play, they used Odom to cover whoever was passing the ball in. His size and reach was a huge advantage, and usually resulted in either getting the steal himself or forcing a bad pass (allowing Ariza to get those steals). Given the size of the rest of our roster, we can match-up well even if the pass does get in bounds, but it gives us that much more of a possibility to make a big defensive play.
Just another thing Donté brings to the table.
by UCIrvine kings fan on Dec 4, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Growth and development, all good to see...
I have my ins and outs about Donte’. He shows such flashes of athleticism… My response to the 30Q on whether or not he is ready reflected my misgivings. Though my metaphor disturbed some with its imagery, so be forewarned!, I think it was apt then.
I am glad to see that we have the kind of coaching staff that can bring out the kind of play in these guys. Donte’ is no exception. Or perhaps one can say that he is exceptional in that he is amazingly gifted athletically and has such vast RAW talent.
In the past his raw talent has enabled him to get by without having to work hard. I don’t know that he ever really had to try that hard. Kind of like a savant who can do amazing math problems in their head without trying. Why would they study math?
Donte’ is now, however, in a league where raw and potent gifts are not enough. Good to see him buying into the coaching and seeing him step up his game. I don’t know that it is a reformation as much as maturation.
Either way I am really enjoying seeing him grow and develop before our very eyes. Just one thing…
Donte’, stop passing in fucking traffic down low and either put the ball up or pass back out. You have been playing SG not PG so either Shoot it or give it back to the PG.
I love that
in every interview he always mentions “working hard”. You can tell this was drilled into him over the summer, and he has recognized that talent alone isn’t enough to make it in the NBA.
Let him play the point!
He’ll impress with his quickness, court vision and superior slashing abilities!
If only he had a few more inches in height
Love Chapu’s game and wish he could play C with that grit and determination. A few more inches and pounds….
I was afraid
Donté would go the way of G. Wallace, not Douby. It’s nice to see him getting minutes and growing as a player while he’s still here, rather than getting traded and turning into a quasi star.
I am glad that you are not fronting.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Dec 4, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
This
I’m just glad there’s something here, with Donté, and I can’t wait to see how it unfolds.
Is how I feel. I had serious doubts whether he would ever put anything together, and though those doubts aren’t completely washed away, there are some really positive signs.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I cannot wait for him to get more playing time -
to see what he can really produce. Donte’s somewhat of a freak of nature since he’s shown that he can shoot the 3 at his height, possess a very good handle, play great D because of his energy, size and length, and create assists. If Donte can pull all of these attributes together without the silly turnovers, he’ll be the one of the Kings’ most dangerous weapons (cue dramatic chords).
I remember Donte citing Rashard Lewis as one of his models and I can’t help but think he can be so much more. I can’t wait to see ‘how it unfolds’ too.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Good comment with one exception
“very good handle”. The only reason defenses don’t attack Donte when he brings up the ball, is because when Donte has the ball, Tyreke doesn’t. Maybe for a 6’10" guy he handles the ball well, but very good handle sounds overly optimistic to me.
One of the reasons Donte put up so many 3’s last year, was that he couldn’t create a shot off the dribble very well. Now, he’s better this year (as is JT). But, I think it’s still a work in progress. HIs best moves to the basket are without the ball. When he has the ball his best moves seem to be from the left corner, where he doesn’t have to go baseline with his left hand.
HIs passing off the dribble is also suspect. As someone else already pointed out, those two passes in the paint which ended up as turnovers, weren’t very good. The prior game he got lucky with the same type of moves, which ended up as assists. But on one, he was in the air going out of bounds off the dribble, but was able get the ball to JT.
Much improved ball handling, but not very good, YET. I congradulate both Donte & JT for their hard work and improvement over the summer. Getting to the basket and creating off your own dribble are skills that will great increase their potential and value.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have nothing to add but a rec
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
I should have said "very good handle for a big man" then?
Most 6-10/6-11 guys cannot handle the ball like Donte. I’m not saying he’s a PG or 2-Guard but he’s brought the ball up a few times and is given the freedom to drive and create. If he didn’t have a good handle (disclaimer: for his size) I don’t think Coach W would allow him to do so. I think his decision making and dribbling into crowds needs to be worked on but the handle is very good (for his size) in my opinion. Thus I’ll stand by the very good handle (for a big man) statement.
Thanks for the in depth explanation – I agree for the most part, Tops. :)
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I thought that was your slant
was just building on what you started.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I forgot to mention...
You mentioned JT improving as well. I agree. His 4 straight jump shots was straight out of the playbook of a guy whose name rhymes with Friss Clebber. JT’s handle has improved as well…and yes, it’s not ‘very good’….YET.
We’ll agree to disagree on Donte’s handle. :)
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
"The Show"
Is already my favorite player, and that has a lot to do with the improved play and great attitude he has shown in comparison. I have mentioned this before, but I really are Greene as representative of the whole team; no one expected what Greene or the Kings have done so far this year, and there is a strong feeling of hope for both.
I might have to get a jersey and rock it at the game.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Dec 4, 2009 9:28 AM PST via mobile reply actions
sorry for the mistakes; i hate my phone
I meant to say I *think of Greene as representative.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
by Ice_9ine on Dec 4, 2009 9:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Someday..
I really hope Greene could somehow pan out to be like a mini Melo..With his height, size, strength, and athletic abilities, he could do damage and tear some sh*t up. Donte does have similarities between himself and Melo. The slashing abilities and shooting range, and he has shown flashes of his athleticism to finish around the rim.
(The comparison to G. “Force” Wallace, I’ll take that too. Donte does have the potential and raw talent. I really hope that he’s apart of the KINGS’ future and that GP/ front office won’t trade him.)
Oh. and they both came out of
SYRACUSE, home of the ORANGEMEN!
On a different note
Just how long is that freakin’ Beno thread going to be?!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Dec 4, 2009 10:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
For hilarious and timely nonsequitur.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Dec 4, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
As 49er already said TZ
Well put.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
With Donte
I think less is more. Do less, but do it better. Don’t try for the home run play that turns into a turnover. Play within your abilities and focus on what you do best. If the shot is there, shoot it; if not, make the solid play, not the spectacular play.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 1:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
what if
Kings trade for Tyrus Thomas since hes out in the market. I happen to think he would be a significant upgrade at the forward. He would add some D and would fit in perfectly.
Will they Udoka & May for him
Thomas makes $4.7M. The Kings would have to renounce all their exemption and cap holds to free up $3M in cap space. Then add a combination of 2 players out of Udoka, May & Brockman to make the deal work.. But, May is restricted until Dec 15th, and Udoka is restricted until Feb 3rd.
The only other that might work are Sergio, Omri or Donte in combination with cap space and May or Brockman. I’m guessing the Kings aren’t willing to give up Omri or Donte. So, all we have to offer is $3M in cap space plus either Sergio or May & Brockman.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
What about Francisco/May for thomas. Gives us cap relief down the line and what are either of these guys doing this year anyways
Judgment day is coming!
Cisco is a BYC and is next to impossible to trade
Even tho his base salary is $5.8M, he’s value in a trade is $2.9M. Sac would have to clear about $2M to get the deal to work on their end. But, Chicago is giving up $4.7M and the league uses all of Ciscos’ $5.8M so it might work under the 125% +100K trade restriction..
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Looking over calculations it would work. We should be able to clear 2 million without too much of an issue (Udoka if nothing else).
Now here is my next question. Who would you be willing to give up Garcia and May (BIG loss) for a 1 year rental on TT? Or would you rather trade them back Noc and get TT + 1 small contract(To make it match enough)
Judgment day is coming!
How is Thomas a significant upgrade over Jason Thompson?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I was gonna post my usual argument against Tyrus but I knew someone would step up.
I like Tyrus but he doesn’t bring anything that we don’t already have or are developing in young core.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
And none of those things are significant
Who needs defense when you can just out score the other guy!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
My assumption
is that he thinks he’s an upgrade over Kenny Thomas, Brockman and May.
Thompson and Hawes are averaging about 63 minutes between them, leaving 33 minutes for the other 4s and 5s.
I’m not real high on Thomas, but I guess we could do worse.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
And I'm OK with that -
But what do you give up for a bench big that either has a $6.3 million QO next year (according to ShamSports) or is an unrestricted free agent?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
"Bench" in name only
If the guy plays 30 minutes a game, he might as well be considered a co-starter even if he comes off the bench.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough -
What do you give up for a 30 minutes a night guy that has a $6.3 million QO next year (according to ShamSports) or is an unrestricted free agent?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Hopefully
A new, cheaper contract.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
Is cheaper always better?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
No
But I think today’s $8-million a year guys are tomorrow’s $5-$6 million a year guys, and so on down the line.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
I think he's worth the money
to answer what do you give up, off this team that’s the real problem. There’s no one on this team that is tradeable that seems like they’d be a better fit somewhere else. Our young guys, at this point, all seem like integral parts.
So, if you can’t get Tyrus for expirings or close to it, I’d have a tough time justifying the deal. You could make the case to just wait until Tyrus hits free agency, if Chicago doesn’t find a taker. We can’t give up much, because if Tyrus is worth the money he’s going to get, its not by much. There’s little “value” there, so we shouldn’t be giving up a lot of value.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
Guys we definitely aren't trading
Tyreke, JT and Casspi. Everybody else is fair game for the right deal. I’d also like to hang on to Hawes and Donte.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 5, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
Rec'd TZ
For the Fugazi quote and the timeliness of this “é” posting. May we all be grateful for Mario Elie and a competent coaching staff this holiday season…
Vanquish the Foe, a BYU Cougars blog at SB Nation
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Sactown Royalty
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
