More Tyreke Evans Superlatives: A List of the NBA's All-Time 19/4/4 Rookies
by Ziller on Dec 4, 2009 6:32 AM PST
in Commentary
46 comments
Anecdotes like "only LeBron James and Tyreke Evans average this, that and the other" deserve some skepticism -- we're making up artifical platforms to boost the stock of a player whose stock we seek to boost. It's not exactly scientific method. The list I'm about to offer is similar in that the limitation I'm putting on it is constructed solely because Evans exceeds it.
That doesn't mean it's not impressive.
Fourteen rookies in the history of the NBA have averaged at least 19 points, four rebounds and four assists. Seven are in the Hall of Fame. Three are active. Two of those are surefire first-ballot Hall-of-Famers. The other is a potential Hall of Famer who made seven All-Star teams, one All-NBA first team and four All-NBA second teams, and who once finished third in MVP voting. Of the other four players on the list, one was a four-time All-Star, one was a starter on five championship teams, one made six All-Star teams and three All-NBA second teams, and one ... well, one liked to smoke weed and shoot 25-footers.
That is the 19/4/4 Rookie Club. Evans is currently averaging 19.3 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.8 assists.
After the jump, the 19/4/4 Rookie Club ...
- Elgin Baylor
- Oscar Robertson
- Dave Bing
- Earl Monroe
- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
- Sidney Wicks
- Larry Bird
- Michael Jordan
- Ron Harper
- Mitch Richmond
- Grant Hill
- Damon Stoudemire
- Allen Iverson
- LeBron James
By the way, if you're of the mind Evans can increase his assists per game to 5.0 while maintaining the scoring and rebounding averages, you should know that the 19/5/5 Rookie Club is even more exclusive.
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One thing they all have in common
Is they all got PT. Obviously deserved so for most on this list, but Tyreke is given 36 min a night on a team which needs him to do what he does. Not diminishing his talent but we should all maintain perspective.
by Mityt on Dec 4, 2009 6:39 AM PST via mobile reply actions
True, but It's a great feat regardless of the playing time.
Jennings is playing 35 minutes a game and he’s not even close in the rebound department at 3.8. He is however at 21 and 5 for assists which I think is equally amazing. Johnny Flynn is playing roughly 30 minutes a game and getting 14-3-2. If anything, looking through this perspective makes me appreciate ’Reke’s numbers even more. I’m looking forward to see all three of these young guys play for many years to come.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Ty Lawson would probably have better stats than Jonny Flynn
if he wasn’t Chauncey Billups backup.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Very true
It’s so hard for me like a Tarheel though…especially when they win the National Championship.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
True Enough
But we’re also winning at a far better rate than we did last season. He’s getting big minutes, producing like few rookies ever have, and the team is better for it. Pardon me if I’m not apprehensive in my optimism.
by furious.d on Dec 4, 2009 9:39 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not trying to curb your enthusiasm
Just trying to reiterate what TZ touched upon in his opening stanza, that we shouldn’t quite elevate Reke to Lord and Saviour of Kings basketball yet (please let it be true). I’m not trying to specifically accuse you if this as you have said no such thing. I just think that what Evans has done has been so incredibly impressive that we should just sit back and see how the season progresses. Can he keep it up? Can he mesh with KMart? These are all questions that need a bit more time to answer before we make any conclusions. Hey, I love me sone Reke just as much a the next guy/gal but I’m just hoping he ends up more like LeBron and less like Damon Stoudemire.
by Mityt on Dec 4, 2009 12:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Wow. Stoudemire didn't even cross my mind.
Similar rookie stats but the comparison ends at Stoudemire’s 5-11 height. Not only that, Tyreke has a solid support group, great coaches and team that will push him to greatness and not let him go down that downward spiral of fallen athletes.
I respectfully disagree. I guess we’ll just wait and see. Hey that rhymed. I have to go pee.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Not trying to indicate
That Tyreke will end up with the horrible self-destructive habits of Stoudemire, just simply talking about on-the-court habits and more strictly statistically. Damon started his career on a tear with Toronto bug somewhat fizzled with the Jailblazers. I realize that they do not compare physically and I certainly agree that Tyreke has a much better support system with the Kings’ organization. All I was really saying is that I hope he improves with time as opposed to regressing.
by Mityt on Dec 4, 2009 3:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Tyreke also plays defense
Which might be an indication of having the desire that a guy like Stoudemire lacked.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Rec'd
sit back and enjoy. Tyreke’s been everything anyone could have reasonably hoped for and more, where’s it going? Who knows, but its been amazing, and we all should enjoy it.
The best part is, I haven’t seen an ounce of selfishness or prima donna crap like you get with budding stars. Tyreke makes you want to root for him, and the performance has been amazing, what’s not to like?
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
He's not a real point guard?
/obligatory
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
Only Eric Maynor is a real PG
And Eric Maynor > the universe. / obligatory.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
something they don't have in common that is often overlooked
The top half of this list are guys who went 4 yrs to college and were 22 or older. Tyreke Evans just turned 20, LeBron and AI were the only other “one and done” or younger on this list.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 6, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure how this changes your point
But Iverson came out of Georgetown after he was a sophomore.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Some pretty good company...
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Grant Hill drinks Sprite?
Grant Hill drinks…Sprite!
Sorry, no relevance there, but that’s all I can think of when I think of Grant Hill.
Au Contraire!
that’s all i can think about when i think of a sprite sprite bottle.
also ‘lil penny, whom I guessed would be on the list but wasn’t.
And he's a Sacramento King?
Who woulda thought it!
"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson
Not surprised about his company and I'm glad you posted this, Z.
Since you did post this, I’m going to assume you feel the same way about Tyreke as I do.
I wonder if some fans are waiting for the season to be over to call Tyreke a ‘star’. Even if he doesn’t make the 19/5/5 Rookie Club I’m certain he’ll have a stellar career as long as he stays relatively healthy in the long run.
Seeing him break out Beno’s stop and pop jumper at the free throw line made me jump out of my seat. Folks were saying he wouldn’t start working on that move till next year and what do you know? ‘Reke busts it out 17 games into the season. As the old saying goes – this kid is for real. I won’t be surprised to see ’Reke hit some sick floaters by the All-Star break. I could have sworn I saw him hit a few in the tournament last year.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
It would take way too much work
But I’d like to see the list of who was in the 19/4/4 group at this point in the season and then dropped off.. Not to doom and gloom too much, but the idea that he’ll hit the rookie wall eventually keeps popping up in the back of my mind.
by bartenpa on Dec 4, 2009 9:31 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
20/5/5 isn't unreasonable ...
According to basketball-reference, thanks for that link, there are only three players who would be in this club:
Oscar Robertson
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Now that is rarefied atmosphere!
Grant Hill had 19.9 points, 5.0 assists and 6.4 rebounds.
He’s right there.
by UCIrvine kings fan on Dec 4, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
the best rookie the Sacramento Kings have ever drafted
even if you forget about that list of players, those stats are pretty fantastic for a 20-year old. and the fact that we’re seeing him improve makes it exciting to imagine how good he’ll be in a few years.
(btw, i used to live right above Sidney Wicks here in LA. wanted to ask him about his playing days with Geoff Petrie. he is huge and looks like he could still go out and play on the court)
put me in, Coach
Or the amazing 4 first round picks the following year
Anthony Bonner
Lionel Simmons
Duane Causwell
Travis Mays
Causwell is a sleeper! He’s going to be great and have great footwork just like hakeem because he played soccer!
That's a nice club
I wonder what their secret handshake is.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I think
Tyreke’s numbers will probably drop a bit when Martin and Cisco come back. He will be asked to score less. Although his assists may go up then. But I’m guessing his minutes go down slightly also.
The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"
But I do love Tyreke
And think he’s a great talent. But I doubt he finishes the season at 20/5/5. But I bet he gets there at some point this season.
The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"
Disagree
When Martin is back the other teams won’t be able to load up the paint with three players. They will have to double Martin when he gets the ball and that will keep players farther out, opening up the lane for drives, and increase the points that Tyreke puts up.
Changes are going to have to be made
Both by our opponents and by our players. It’s only been a month, so my recollection might be a little fuzzy, but where teams doubling Martin as soon as he got the ball?
I seem to remember him in single coverage away from the paint and then help coming as he drove into the paint. Basicly, the same as last year, with Martin & Salmon. Unfortuneately, I haven’t kept any of may recordings from last year or earlier this season.
Obviously there will be changes in the offense, when Martin returns. First off his FGA’s will probably go down. He was shooting 22 shots with 10 FT in the first 5 games, or about 27 possession out of 82 a game. Tyreke has been taking 15 FGA & 5 FT’s or about 17 possessions. That’s 44 possessions out of 82.
As far as opening up the lane, I think JT & Spencer hitting all thos long range jumpers and 3’s is the first step toward that goal. As was Tyreke’s stop & pop from the FT line. And, as JR said during the last game, when Tyreke attacks from the corner there isn’t as much help defensively as when he attacks from the top of the key. Sometime the only advantage you need is to get the opposing bigs to move out 8 ft from the blocks. Spacing, Spacing & more Spacing.
Martin’s biggest asset besides forcing other teams not to double Tyreke, is that it forces them not so switch their PG over to defend the SG. At 6’7" Martin won’t need to work to get a good shot and will simply shoot over them. We’re already one of the top 5 scoring and FG% teams in the league, Martin should just eliminate the peaks & valleys, and keep teams from going on long runs because of his proficiency. Next up, Top 5 Defensive teams.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 4, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Good post
I would imagine that Reke’s assists go up as well. Kevin is a spectacular three-point shooter, and Cisco is very good as well, I think having Reke gaurded by a smallish point gaurd, it will be easy to drive and kick to those two.
A low post finisher will help with Tyreke's assist numbers as much if not more than a reliable outside scorer
Evans has a tendency to drive and dish very low in the lane. Drop off passes are more to his style currently.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 6, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed with Mack & Jet
Rec’d.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
It would be interesting to trim that list down
to rookies who averaged 19/4/4 AND played on a team with a winning record.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 12:54 PM PST reply actions
Answered my own question
Only three rookies have averaged 19/4/4 and played on a team with a winning record:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird … and Mitch Richmond.
Richmond achieved it while playing for Don Nelson, who has a reputation for not playing rookies.
What that tells me is it’s probably more important if you want to put up those kind of numbers to play on a crap team where you get a lot of playing time. I hope Tyreke breaks that mold.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 4, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
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