Ranking the Assets
by Tom Ziller on Feb 13, 2009 8:00 AM PST
in Commentary
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PrintAs we all discuss trade possibilities and hopes and dreams and vermin extermination, it's worth sorting out our assets. How do we value the things we have?
In the comments, rank the team's assets in order of the importance you place on them. In theory, you'd be quicker to trade things further down the list. Like, my liquor cabinet has some cheap vodka, a bottle of decent rum, and a bottle of tremendous whiskey. (Is there a such thing as non-tremendous whiskey?) My asset ranking would be: whiskey, rum, vodka. I'd lose the vodka for half-a-gyro, but it'd take, like, a five-course meal to get me to part with the whiskey. Make sense?
(Is it too early to start drinking?)
***
Here's my ranking:
1. Kevin Martin. I would find it really hard to trade him for less than a super-duper-star.
2. 2009 first round pick. The question I asked myself in ranking No. 1 -- if the team had lost this pick in a previous trade, would I trade Kevin Martin to OKC for its first round pick? I said no. But I did think about it. Am I a bad person? (I am a bad person.)
3. Jason Thompson.
4. 2010 first round pick. Next season is starting to come into focus; I'm not convinced the team will be that competitive. Call it a hunch. (Note: I'm not going further than 2010 w/r/t draft picks.)
5. Spencer Hawes. Keeping saying it: "He's 20 years old. He's 20 years old."
6. John Salmons. Yeah, I'm surprised he is this high, too.
7. Donté Greene.
8. Brad Miller. He's a useful player.
9. Houston's 2009 first round pick.
10. Francisco Garcia.
11. Everything else, the slop bucket.
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I find it interesting
that Garcia is lower than Salmons on your list, It seems that Garcia and Salmons are at least of the same caliber.
I think we need to include Expiring contracts on the list
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 13, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
My rankings
1. Kevin Martin.
2. Jason Thompson. – I think he can be our PF of the future.
3. 2009 first round pick. Its going to be in the top 3, if not 1 or 2. This also brings back some media focus for the Kings, especially if we get 1, which is nice.
4. Shawes. – I like the guy too much.
5. John Salmons – Proven scorer and can defend. If we trade him I want value in return.
6. 2010 first rounder – Its way too early to see what happens with the Kings next year in my opinion.
7. Francisco Garcia. – Love the guys energy and he’s had his moments on the defensive end too although it definitely needs work. I never actually see him starting for this team just being an excellent 6th man. Sometimes 6th men are more important than starters. Sometimes. See Ginobili, Manu.
8. Houston’s 2009 first round pick. – Its going to be early to mid 20s. Petrie’s hit gold with that before. Also we can use it for trade options.
9. Brad Miller – A decent player to be sure but I really don’t like his attitude. I think he can cause some regression in our young bigs through his influence.
10. Donté Greene. – Every time I see him play, he’s just chucking up 3’s often to the result of a brick. Still, with some solid offseason work (possibly with David Thorpe who improved Martin’s game so much) he could end up being a star. Huge potential on this guy, both for stardom and busting.
11. As you say the slop bucket. Earlier in the season I would have put Bobby Brown right above this category but his play as of late has convinced me otherwise.
12. Kenny Thomas. Below the slop bucket. I want him out of here
Donte has huge potential to bust?
He was the 28th pick, thats basically a second rounder, most second rounders do not stick in the NBA. It wont be a bust for him it will be typical if he doesnt make it. Dont forget Douby was taken 19th and it wasnt a huge disappointment that he didnt pan out.
by passionforPERPS on Feb 13, 2009 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
so shelden williams had loads of potential bc he was traded for Bibby?
by passionforPERPS on Feb 13, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
Shelden did have potential
Number 5 pick in the draft 2 time DPoY at Duke. We got to test drive him. That’s not nothing. And we got rid of a bunch of salary.
When we got Shelden,
he did have potential…potential to lose weight. He was a known quantity last year and anyone hoping he’d crack our rotation was thinking wishfully. And although we didnt dump salary in the Artest trade, we did dump a whole lot of crazy.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/John-Paxson-out-as-Bulls-GM-?urn=nba,141339#remaining-content
That article basically claims the Rose for Artest trade was the worst move the Bulls have made in recent history. How did Peja play for the pacers(say that ten times fast)? You dont trade artest for equal talent, you trade him to get rid of his godforsaken personality. The pieces received in an Artest trade will never equal his talent. Donte Greene’s potential is not based on the fact that he was traded for artest, its based on him being the 28th pick after a year of being the man at Syracuse. Basing your expectations on anything else, especially who he was traded for, is ludicrous.
by passionforPERPS on Feb 13, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Lets go back to the main point
You argue Donte can’t bust, because he was a 28th pick. But Petrie and others obviously hold him in high regard. So if he fails those expectations, then he’s a bust.
"But Petrie and others obviously hold him in high regard"
Evidence? Weve had some injuries at the 2-3 this year but have moved BJax to the 2 and JT to the 3 rather than letting the player we highly regard get those minutes.
But you are exactly right he cannot bust because he was the 28th pick, with the 28th pick you dont expect guys like TParker, KMartin, or GArenas. Occaisionally you stumble across a pearl amongst swine and are pleasantly surprised but your not disappointed when you dont, which is what the word bust implies. Late first rounders are often used as a “throw in” in trades bc you’re not expecting much to come from it.
by passionforPERPS on Feb 13, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
and we got 2 first round picks, not just one, along with a serviceable backup pg.
And no trade involving Ron Artest will be equal on a talent level because of his baggage. Hes better than every player hes been traded for in his career, Jalen Rose, Peja, Jackson and the 2 late first rounders, youll never get an equal trade for artest.
by passionforPERPS on Feb 13, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
K9 below the slop bucket?
No, he’s eating the slop bucket!
Brad Miller needs to be higher!
We need to unite as Kings fans to show the rest of the league how much we love Brad and what he brings to the table as a franchise Center!
www.mancancook.net
The man has already been suspended once this season.
How much higher do you want him to get?
A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...
by Jaycee on Feb 13, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
So high he forgets to cash his paychecks
by discocricket on Feb 13, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
What is this conservative propaghanda?
Are you implying that smoking marijuana leads to memory loss or forgetfullness?!?! You must be one of the out of state kings fans or perhaps youre just residing in Placer County and of course im excluding A-U-Burn? Auburn.
by passionforPERPS on Feb 14, 2009 4:13 AM PST up reply actions
only 1 problem,
I know Brad and Salmons are more skilled players than Cisco but he fits as our 6th man of the future, do Brad and Johnny fit as our starting 3 and 5 of the future? Id keep it all the same except move Cisco from 10 to 6, with the possibility of slotting John behind Donte but we really havent seen enough from Donte.
by passionforPERPS on Feb 13, 2009 8:43 AM PST reply actions
Regarding your introduction
Never before have I felt my Kings fandom result in an immediate and real need for anesthesia (fanesthesia?)
The team is plumbing the very depths of suckitude.
The trade deadline is fast approaching – is there any real reason for hope?
And now the franchise relocation rumors start.
Heavy sigh…Make mine a double.
(Cheap ass vodka, Drano, whatever…)
I have a feeling with the economy the way it is,
the Maloofs will want to keep all draft picks (maybe even trade to add) as they represent the cheapest contracts availible in the NBA. Along with the dumping of salary this is pretty much what I see happening at the deadline…. Beno for Stackhouse. Salmons to OKC for Smith and a pick, depending on when this happens… smith and k9 for wally world and depending on what happens with Miami/Suns/Grizz maybe a miller and moore deal. Yes I am overally optimistic but it makes sense.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
Slamson is in the slop bucket?
You’re a cold man, Tom Ziller. Cold as ice.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 13, 2009 9:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Peaches
is the slimy residue that collects under the slop bucket.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
We should see if we can trade Peaches
for John Rocker. It’s an obvious upgrade in terms of on-screen charisma, and it would generate some much-needed buzz for this team.
My list
1. Kevin Martin
2. 2009 1st Rounder
3. Hawes/Shock
5. 2010 1st rounder
6. Salmons
7. Rockets Pick
8. Greene
9. Cisco
10. Miller
11. Carrill
12. Koz
13. Gerould
14. Memory of the good years
15. My Hedo bobblehead
97. B-Jax
98. Maloofs
99. Natt
100. K-9
101. Shelden
102. Mikki
103. Douby
104. Beno
Ridiculous!
Mikki after K9? Two expirings after K9? Snap out of it! Get out of Ziller’s cabinet and come back to your senses, man!
I have an irrational hatred for Mikki
I fully admit it. You knew someone was gonna give him a fat contract after his half season with Jersey. Why did it have to be us? Mikki and Beno and Shelden Williams were on my 10 least favorite players list. Then we acquired all three. Besides, it’s like the difference between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with bleu cheese.
by discocricket on Feb 13, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
You missed KayteC
She ranks somewhere up there with KM, no?
Hmmmm - OK
KM
1st rd pick
JT
(Exprings)
Salmons
Brad
Cisco
Hawes
2010
Donte’?
Houston Pick
Not sure its worth the effort after that
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
Forgive me Beno!
You desrve to be on the list towards the bottom somewhere
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 13, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
The Wife and I are off to the AT&T Pro-Am in Monterey
for the next few days. (Its mostly about drinking and the wife gets the whole thing paid for)
Maybe I’ll check in if it rains
Hopefully something will be done this weekend (!!!)
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
#2 - with a fishnet
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 13, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
Call me crazy
1. Shock (I believe with all my heart that someone will teach him to play defense without fouling. I have to. Given that, I look into his eyes and see a 20-10 career with decent defense)
2. Speedracer (I have a hard time seeing him as our #1 guy when we’re back fighting for championships, but I think he’ll keep getting better for a couple more years)
3. 09 pick (I’m hoping for a franchise point guard, but I don’t follow the college game at all so I’m not sure if that guy will be there)
4. Hawes (I think with the right coach and the departure of Miller (and his ‘tude), it will start to all come together for Spence and he’ll be a major part of our glorious string of Championships)
5. Next year’s pick (too much uncertainty to put it any higher)
6/7. Salmons/Cisco (I think Cisco can be Doug Christy with more clutch, but Salmons has a damn-lot of trade value, so I can’t quite decide. If you held a gun to my head, I’d give Cisco the edge here)
8. The G-man (watching him MC the Webber thing just reinforced to me how lucky we’ve been to have him all these years)
9. Kayte (I’ll keep the commentary to myself on this one)
I’m not sure that anything else really has much significant long-term value for us. I’m still trying to figure-out why everyone is so high on Donte, but I don’t think the Maloofs are going to offer me Petrie’s job anytime soon, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one for now.
by AnotherStupidSN on Feb 13, 2009 12:51 PM PST reply actions
Agree about Donté
His playing lately has been positively Douby-esque. He’s entertaining as hell so I hope he jells but he hasn’t shown us much recently.
Blazers
1. Brandon Roy
2. Greg Oden
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Jerryd Bayless
5. Rudy Fernandez
6. Joel Przybilla
7. Travis Outlaw
8. Martell Webster
9. Steve Blake
10. Nicolas Batum
11. Sergio Rodriguez
12. Channing Frye
13. Shavlik Randolph
14. Ike Diogu
15. Raef LaFrentz
Karma
Remember that if/when you wind up occupying the 9th spot in the West come playoff time.
And for what it’s worth, LaFrentz’ super expiring contract should probably be rated ahead of Diogu, Randolph and Frye, at least.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Karma? Remember what?
Not being confrontational, just confused.
As for LaFrentz being ranked 15th, I’m following the post guidelines that “you’d be quicker to trade things further down the list.”
ah...
I may have gotten it wrong. RLEC is super-valuable, so yeah as a ranking of assets I guess he should be higher. But as a player he’s a nothing, and I would really like to trade him (provided the right deal came along).
Oh, and I see what you mean by karma. Posting a Blazers thing. Sorry, I came to this link by Truehoop, and the writeup led me to believe that the call was out for fans of all teams to list their assets. I for one am interested in how people around the league rank their assets.
My bad
We suck and I’m a little hyper sensitive about seeing a list with about a half dozen players that I would like to have.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Out of the top 3
Oden was a lucky ping pong ball (and I think it’s starting to look like they made the wrong choice), but Roy and Aldridge came via robbery of other stupid GMs. Can we move up two spots in the lottery by giving up Viktor Khryapa? I’d like to hope Petrie is on the right side of those opportunities in the future.
by discocricket on Feb 13, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
TZ.. Qurious on how you came up with value for the draft choices.
I’m guessing you doubt our 09 choice will ever be a All-Star, so it has less value than Martin. But, in the same vein, your saying the JT won’t reach Martins status which is less than All-Star.
Since it looks like the 2010 draft will be better than the 09 draft, I can only assume that it’s lower rate is based on the uncertainty of our draft position. Because if we were top 5 in both, I’d think 2010 would have greater value.
Lastly, if JT isn’t going to reach All-Star status but only a good starting PF, then you must think Hawes won’t reach the same status. My personal opinion is that a serviceable starting center is harder to find then a serviceable PF, and is therefore more valueable. So, could you explain your thinking on why you stacked the top 5 as you did.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
...
It’s not doubt with the ‘09 pick — but there’s risk. There isn’t much risk left with Martin. And contract value comes into play. Martin is locked up through his prime at a very reasonable rate. Thompson will hit the market as he approaches his prime. If he’s great, 18-12 or so … he’ll be super expensive.
Hawes has risk. The ’10 pick has risk.
Impeccable logic
If Jt does develop Martin is more valuable, If JT develops and becomes as valueable as Martin, he’ll demand a higher contract, and Martin is still more valueable. If JT becomes an all-star, his high contract may make him equal in value to Martin & his contract. Financial sound thinking.
My list
1. Martin
2. 2010 #1 rounder ( we’re still bad next yr, top 10, and it’s a lottery so #1 possible, & better draft )
3. Thompson
4. 2009 #1 rounder (top 5 in a bad draft, no one we pick makes us significantly better right away)
5. Hawes (serviceable centers are hard to come by, just ask Miami)
6. Salmons (without him we’re 0-54)
7. Cisco (reasonably priced 6th man who plays 3 positions)
8. 2009 Houston #1 pick
9. Miller (decent backup & expiring next yr)
10. Greene (too fun loving, isn’t working hard enough based on Bee articles)
11. expiring
12. K9 ( will be gone in 1/7 dog yrs)
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
My take
1. 2009 first round pick.
2. 2010 first round pick.
3. Jason Thompson.
4. Kevin Martin.
5. Houston’s 2009 first round pick.
6. Donté Greene.
7. Bobby Brown.
8. Spencer Hawes.
9. Bobby Jackson.
10. Everyone else.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 13, 2009 5:23 PM PST reply actions
You forgot to list Bill Artest
"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops
I looked at the list again
Maybe I ranked Spencer too low, maybe not.
I threw in Bobby Jackson because he’s still got some game and definitely still has some pride. I’m hoping we can resign him for small dollars. If nothing else, I like hearing the Arco announcer say " Bob-by JAAAAAACK-SOOOOOON" when he makes a three.
I don’t see a role for anybody else on the squad in the team’s future, but I hope someone else does. And nobody on the list above is untouchable besides the caveats about the trade restrictions, either.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 13, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed that no one is untouchable
But it is certainly more challenging to deal a BYC player.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think Bobby Brown is a worthwhile throw in in a trade
He’s going to be very cheap, and assuming he doesn’t opt out this year, will be very cheap next year too.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
hmm...
I just did a similar ranking in a comment.
Personally, I ranked the ‘09 pick first and then KMart. Kevin is great and everything but he does have some limitations (like on defense?!), he could be very attractive to another team and it’s easier to replace a #2 than a potential star big or point guard, which I assume is what we absolutely GOTTA come out of this draft with.
The problem is Kevin’s contract makes a trade tough for the time being.
We’re almost certainly looking at a better than Top 10 pick in the ‘10 draft, (i.e. higher than where either Hawes or JT were selected) so I’d be hesitant to deal that one either. I’d prefer hanging on to Cisco because his attitude and toughness could help set a tone for the team as they grow.
After that, I’m fine with pretty much any deal that brings defense and athleticism.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Kevin is great and everything but he does have some limitations (like on defense?!), he could be very attractive to another team and it’s easier to replace a #2 than a potential star big or point guard, which I assume is what we absolutely GOTTA come out of this draft with.
What if that player isn’t in the draft? Then regardless of what you “gotta” do you can’t with the pick. People seem to assume the pick will be good, there are a lot of variables.
1) The player has to be in the draft.
2) You have to correctly identify the player. This is a huge variable. The best player in this draft could be Griffin or Rubio. It could be Thabeet, maybe his size translates so well and he grows into being an offensive force and is the elite defender everyone suspects. It could be Harden, hell it could be Stephen Curry, mybe is shooting is so special, he can’t be guarded even at the NBA level. The point is, no one knows, everyone has opinions, but your opinion has to be right, and that’s a probability thing.
3) You have to have a pick in a position to pick the player you identify.
All those things have to break right for you.
Also, I promise you finding players as good as Kevin Martin for the money he makes would be anything but easy.
Basically, I think you're right, ForThree.
Obviously a draft pick is always a roll of the dice. And it is as you say “a probability thing”
However, historically speaking when an NBA team gets a tip-top pick (like 1 through 4) the odds of their walking out of the draft was a great player, a true game changer, is waaay better than with, say a #10 or 12 pick.
Maybe if you have the #1 overall pick the odds of ending up with one of the top three players in a given draft is only 50-50. But that’s a lot better than your chances if you have the 10th pick. I mean, if we’d had the #1 pick in ‘07 and had our choice of say Greg Oden, Kevin Durant or Al Horford instead of ending up with a consolation prize like Hawes I think we’d all feel a bit better about the future of the franchise.
And hey, if the GM doesn’t correctly identify The Absolute Best Player, that’s a bummer, but frankly I’d take my chances with Griffin or Rubio. Either one of ’em would immediately become the most gifted player on this roster in terms of raw athletic ability and would have the best chance of any King becoming one of the dozen or so best players in the game. We need THAT kind of stud desperately.
Of course teams can totally whiff on a high pick, and there will always be a few gems that sneak through into those later slots. But this is the year the Kings finally get a chance to retool with a truly great young player, and there’s no conceivable way Petrie would trade away that opportunity.
As for Martin, I wasn’t knocking him at all. He’s very, very good, but so was Mitch Richmond and that deal worked out pretty good. In any case K-Marts contract makes him tough to trade anytime soon, so it’s sort of a moot point.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
My take 4 days & 5000 words later
1) 2009 1st round pick
2) Speed
3) JT
4) 2010 1st round pick
5) Shawes
6) Donte
7) Salmons & Cisco are essentially tied
9) Houston’s 1st rounder
10) Potential cap space
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
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