On Rubio, future and hopes

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 17, 2009 9:30 AM PST

First to say - I am definitely not saying that Kings should take Rubio with their pick being it the first, second or whichever. One reason for this is that I do not know enough of the college basketball, the second reason is that I don't feel myself confident in predicting future developments of players. And the third reason is that I don't have a clue what are the future plans for the Kings as a franchise by its GM and owners - which matters a lot.

This post is thus a reaction to the fanpost given here by hectic and the discussion that it began and I primarily want to argue that several points raised there are just pointless at this stage. On the other hand, this should be also an argument against scenerios that present too much hope with a potential arrival of Rubio, or, rather that presents too specific kind of hope from his coming to Sacramento. I decided to start a new fanpost as the reaction is slightly longer.

I should warn you that there is too much statistics not necessarily related to the final argument I do at the end. I have put it within the horizontal line and you will find the beginning and end also by the bold-and-crossed notice.

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~~Thus far for an introduction, now "few" facts.~~

Let's see pointguards with the highest PER in their rookie season in the last decade:

Chris Paul (05/06) 22.1
Steve Francis (99/00) 18.4
Kyle Lowry (07/08) 18.3
Andre Miller (99/00) 17.9
Gilberto Arenas (01/02) 17.0
Raymond Sessions (07/08) 16.3
Derrick Rose (08/09) 16.1
Russell Westbrook (08/09) 16.1

Of these eight, Lowry played only 10 games as a rookie and Sessions played only 17. No other pointguard has had more than 15 PER in his rookie season. Deron Williams had 12.4; Raymond Felton had 14.2; Devin Harris had 14.7; TJ Ford had 12.1; Kirk Hinrich 13.1; Tony Parker 11.7. To compare, Jason Williams had 12.8 and Mike Bibby 14.8. Looking further back, on former rookies of the year, Jason Kidd had 15.1 and Damon Stoudemire 16.7 but I deliberately do not want so far, as one can argue that the game has changed since.

Let's take a look at the age of other six rookie PGs of the decade on the first of November of their first season in the league:

Paul:20 years, 6 months, 26 days

Francis:22 years, 8 months, 11 days

Miller: 23 years, 7 months, 13 days

Arenas: 19 years, 9 months, 26 days

Rose: 20 years, 28 days

Westbrook: 19 years, 11 months, 20 days

The PER criterium might not be the best one. For example Beno Udrih had 14.3 in his rookie year (12.4 this year). Let us choose a bunch of pointguards that indeed had a huge impact on their teams in their rookie year and some pointguards that became stars in the league and let's see their age(this is a very loose selection including 'potential stars', i.e. recent picks at the beginning of their careers)

Mike Conley Jr. 20 years, 21 days

Randy Foye 23 years, 1 month, 8 days

Deron Williams 21 years, 4 months, 6 days

Raymond Felton 21 years, 4 months, 6 days (did you know they were born on the same day?)

Devin Harris 21 years, 8 months, 5 days

TJ Ford 20 years, 7 months, 8 days

Kirk Hinrich 22 years, 9 months, 30 days

Jamal Crawford 20 years, 7 months, 12 days

Baron Davis 20 years, 6 months, 19 days

Jason Terry 22 years, 1 month, 17 days

Let's see the complex statistics of them:

Derrick Rose (36.8 MIN/G)

17.0 PTS, 3.6 REB, 6.3 AST, 2.5 TO, 0.8 STL, FG% 47.3, 3PT% 25.9, FT% 79.0, True Shooting (TS)% 51.5, WinShare (WS) 3.2

Russel Westbrook (31.7)

15.1 PTS, 4.7 REB, 4.9 AST, 3.1 TO, 1.4 STL, FG% 40.8, 3PT% 29.6, FT% 80.8, True Shooting (TS)% 50.3, WinShare (WS) 2.0

Chris Paul (36.0)

16.1 PTS, 5.1 REB, 7.8 AST, 2.3 TO, 2.2 STL, FG% 43.0, 3PT% 28.2, FT% 84.7, True Shooting (TS)% 54.6, WinShare (WS) 10.2

Andre Miller (25.5)

11.1 PTS, 3.4 REB, 5.8 AST, 2.0 TO, 1.0 STL, FG% 44.9, 3PT% 20.4, FT% 77.4, True Shooting (TS)% 51.7, WinShare (WS) 5.5

Steve Francis (36.1)

18.0 PTS, 5.3 REB, 6.6 AST, 4.0 TO, 1.5 STL, FG% 44.5, 3PT% 34.5, FT% 78.6, True Shooting (TS)% 54.3, WinShare (WS) 6.5

Gilert Arenas (24.6)

10.9 PTS, 2.8 REB, 3.7 AST, 2.1 TO, 1.5 STL, FG% 45.3, 3PT% 34.5, FT% 77.5, True Shooting (TS) 56.2%, WinShare (WS) 2.9

Mike Conley Jr. (26.1)

9.4 PTS, 2.6 REB, 4.2 AST, 1.7 TO, 0.8 STL, FG% 42.8, 3PT% 33.0, FT% 73.2, True Shooting (TS) 50.2%, WinShare (WS) 1.1

Deron Williams (28.8.)

10.8 PTS, 2.4 REB, 4.5 AST, 1.8 TO, 0.8 STL, FG% 42.1, 3PT% 41.6, FT% 70.4, True Shooting (TS) 50.0% .3, WinShare (WS) 2.7

Raymond Felton (30.1)

11.9 PTS, 3.3 REB, 5.6 AST, 2.3 TO, 1.3 STL, FG% 39.1, 3PT% 35.8, FT% 72.5, True Shooting (TS) 48.3% .3, WinShare (WS) 2.6

Devin Harris (15.4)

5.7 PTS, 1.3 REB, 2.2 AST, 1.1 TO, 1.0 STL, FG% 42.9, 3PT% 33.6, FT% 75.7, True Shooting (TS) 53.0%, WinShare (WS) 2.8

TJ Ford (26.8)

7.1 PTS, 3.2 REB, 6.5 AST, 2.5 TO, 1.1 STL, FG% 38.4, 3PT% 23.8, FT% 81.6, True Shooting (TS) 44.3%, WinShare (WS) 0.7

Kirk Hinrich (35.6)

12.0 PTS, 3.4 REB, 6.8 AST, 2.7 TO, 1.3 STL, FG% 38.6, 3PT% 39.0, FT% 80.4, True Shooting (TS) 51.0%, WinShare (WS) 4.2

Jamal Crawford (17.2)

4.6 PTS, 1.5 REB, 2.3 AST, 1.4 TO, 0.7 STL, FG% 35.2, 3PT% 35.0, FT% 79.4, True Shooting (TS) 44.2%, WinShare (WS) -0.9

Baron Davis (18.6)

5.6 PTS, 2.0 REB, 3.8 AST, 1.7 TO, 1.2 STL, FG% 42.0, 3PT% 22.5, FT% 63.4, True Shooting (TS) 46.4%, WinShare (WS) 0.1

Jason Terry (37.7)

8.1 PTS, 2.0 REB, 4.3 AST, 1.9 TO, 1.1 STL, FG% 41.5, 3PT% 29.3, FT% 80.7, True Shooting (TS) 49.7%, WinShare (WS) 1.8

Tony Parker (29.4)

9.2 PTS, 2.6 REB, 4.3 AST, 2.0 TO, 1.2 STL, FG% 41.9, 3PT% 32.3, FT% 67.5, True Shooting (TS) 49.7%, WinShare (WS) 3.7

Now, let's take a look at the best season-records of pointguards in selected statistical categories in the last decade and let's see what was the age and the season in the league for those players (I will not count Allen Iverson as a point-guard) - and I will count only the best season of each player (as some of them would take too many positions here):

PTS/G

Gilbert Arenas (05/06) 29.3, age 24, season 5
Gary Payton (99/00) 24.2, age 31, season 10
Stephon Marbury (00/01) 23.9, age 23, season 5
Baron Davis (03/04) 22.9, age 24, season 5
Devin Harris (08/09) 21.8, age 25, season 5
Steve Francis (01/02) 21.6, age 24, season 3
Chris Paul (08/09) 21.3, age 23, season 4
Mike Bibby (05/06) 21.1, age 27, season 8

AST/G

Steve Nash (06/07) 11.6, age 32, season 11
Chris Paul (07/08) 11.6, age 22, season 3
Andre Miller (01/02) 10.9, age 25, season 3
Deron Williams (07/08) 10.5, age 23, season 3
Jason Kidd (07/08) 10.1, age 34, season 14 and (99/00),age 26,season 6
Sam Cassell (99/00) 9.0, age 30, season 7
Brevin Knight (04/05), age 29, season 8
Gary Payton (01/02), age 33, season 12
Nick Van Exel (99/00), age 28, season 7
Terrell Brandon (99/00), age 29, season 9

TS% (for players who would be qualified for the scoring title and averaged at least 10 pts per game + I excluded John Stockton who had better numbers before 1999)

Steve Nash (06/07) 65.4, age 32, season 11
Brent Barry - let's say - (01/02) 65.2, age 30, season 7
Chauncey Billups (07/08) 61.9, age 31, season 11
Jose Calderon (07/08) 60.7, age 26, season 3
Jason Terry (04/05) 60.6, age 27, season 6
Chris Paul (08/09) 60.4, age 23, season 4
Leandro Barbosa (06/07) 59.5, age 24, season 4
Deron Williams (07/08) 59.5, age 23, season 3
Tony Parker (05/06) 58.4, age 23, season 5
Mike James (05/06) 58.3, age 30, season 5

Chris Paul (07/08) 17.3, age 22, season 3
Chauncey Bilups (05/06) 14.8, age 29, season 9
Gary Payton (99/00) 14.0, age 31, season 10
Gilbert Arenas (05/06) 13.9, age 24, season 5
Steve Nash (06/07 and05/06) 13.1, age 31-32, season 10-11
Steve Francis (00/01) 12.1, age 23, season 2
Sam Cassell (03/04) 11.9, age 34, season 11
Brent Barry (01/02) 11.8, age 30, season 7
Jason Kidd (02/03) 11.4, age 29, season 9
Deron Williams (07/08) 11.4, age 23, season 5

PER (at least 1500 minutes played in a season)

Chris Paul (08/09) 29.7, age 23, season 4
Gilbert Arenas (06/07) 24.0, age 25, season 6
Steve Nash (06/07) 23.8, age 32, season 10
Chauncey Billups (07/08) 23.6, age 31, season 11
Gary Payton (99/00) 23.6, age 31, season 10
Sam Cassell (03/04) 22.8, age 34, season 11
Devin Harris (08/09) 22.7, age 25, season 5
Stephon Marbury (00/01) 22.7, age 23, season 5
Jason Kidd (02/03) 22.2, age 29, season 9
Steve Francis (00/01) 21.6, age 23, season 2

Finally, I add the height and weight of the top PGs when they entered the draft and the weight now(sources nbadraft.net and nba.com):

Paul - 6-1, 178/175

Francis - 6-3, 194/210

Arenas - 6-3, 199/215

Miller - 6-2, 204/200

Rose -6-3, 196/190

Westbrook - 6-3, 192/187

~~End of the statistics part~~

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Now, what my arguments based on the previous are:

Rubio entering the NBA (i.e. not just the draft) in 2009 would be the youngest pointguard drafted in Top15 playing the league in the last decade. (I did my research only back until 1999, maybe he would be the youngest pointguard even for a longer period). He was born on October 21, 1990, meaning that on 11/1 he would be 19 years and 11 days old. The youngest pointguards drafted in Top15 in the last ten years who have made any impact were Arenas and Westbrook, being about 9-11 months, i.e. almost a year older than Rubio
Apart from Paul, Rose and Westbrook are rookie pointguards who have made the highest impact on their teams since 99/00. They are both about one year older than Rubio if he enters the NBA this year. Of the six best rookie PG prospects, the youngest (Arenas) was 19 years and almost 10 months old, two were over 22 (Miller and Francis)
The top pointguards of the nowadays NBA (again, except of Paul) who entered the league int he last decade - i.e. Harris, Williams, Ford, Hinrich, Felton, Davis, Foye, Crawford or Parker - had a very little impact on their teams as rookies. Apart from Paul, and oldboys - Francis and Miller - Kirk Hinrich has had the highest WS (4.2). Hinrich was also almost 23 and he is not exaclty superstar nowadays. The highest WS by a rookie point-guard under 21 at the time of the start of the league in the last decade is 3.7 by Tony Parker playing on the very good Spurs team (although Derrick Rose will probably overtake him).
Almost all pointguards (including Paul) I have written about were inefficient in their rookie year. Of 16 players I discussed above, only two (Rose and Arenas) shot over 45% from the field, 4 shot below 40%, only one had TS% over 55% (Arenas) and six had TS% below 50%.Only one (Williams) shot for three over 40% (41 exactly) and 7 of 16 shot below 30%. Only one had Ast/TO ratio above 3 and 3 had it below 2.
The main contribution of point-guards seems to be localized broadly between their 5th and 10th year in the league (for some even later, such as Nash), those who had their peak earlier are either still young players (thus probably having not the peak actually, e.g. Paul and Williams or even Harris) or anomalies such as Francis. In terms of the actual age, we can see this between 23-32.
Of the four best 'young' prospects (Paul, Arenas, Rose and Westbrook), we can argue that all of them had brilliant 'athleticism' at the time they entered the league. This might stand for a) speed and quickness, b) jump and c) strength. I will argue that Rubio has speed and quickness, both without the ball, and particularly with the ball along with necessary ballhandling skills. I would not say he has especially good jump, but neither has Paul. On the other hand they both have a good body-control and ability to utilize their jump for passes or shots of their need. What Rubio definitely lacks is strength. His weight is stated as 180lb, with the height 6-4 (and it seems he really might be growing as yet). I think what is definitely apparent in European players coming to the NBA is their lack of strength in general and Rubio is not an exception. On the other hand, unlike speed and jump, strength (and bulk generally) is something that can be obtained most easily (again, see Dwayne Wade in 2003). Right now, Rubio would be nailed by most of NBA-pointguards (if they wished to) including this-year rookie class - if they caught him, of course. I don't see it as an issue at the moment, however.

Now, summarizing:

Rubio is by certainly unready player for the NBA. He is very young and physically developing. He is a talented player with lots of basketball and physical skills and with a lot of space for improvement. What's important - he has a will to improve and there is a room to improve. Consider that he has played for one club all his life, meaning the philosophy he has encountered might be limited. This includes some issues about his defense. Rubio plays a good individual and decent team defense. He risks too much and he makes tactical mistakes. But again, despite his experiences from the senior game, he has just few experiences with different philosophies of basketball and their implications.

Rubio probably will not enter NBA this year and it would better for him to wait. That does not mean he might not enter the draft. Seeing prospects from Europe who decided to wait (Ginobilli, Stojakovic, Fernandez) this seems to be a rather useful option for players, who at least physically cannot equal American players at that stage. Sometimes even one year of delay can do a lot (compare Fernandez and Belinelli - with the latter being a better prospect before the draft - or even consider Gasol and Kirilenko who did not enter the draft as eighteen years old although they could). Very few European players had success in the NBA had they entered it as very young, though more of them succeeded later (Biedrins, Parker, possibly Bargnani). Even for a bust such as Milicic, it took at least four years to show what is in him (not much, though).

Further, if Rubio enters the NBA, his position is probably the one where the development takes the longest (maybe along with centers). Five years is the minimum, in my opinion, for Rubio to get at the borderline of his peak.

And now, what does it mean for the Kings???

First, please do not compare his actual play to the actual play of Chris Paul. Compare it to Brandon Jennings, no problem. If you'd like, compare it even to Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook (two years and experiences in the NBA difference)

Second, and more important - if you are in the Rubio-camp, don't expect him to come next year, or the year after and immediately redeem this team. Even if Rubio will spend a year in Europe and would come in 2010, even if he will take some weight, even if he will improve his jump-shot, even if will add a more of defensive strategy into his repertoire... He will be still just a barely-twenty-years-old-rookie-pointguard... If he should become a franchise player, superstar, star, role player, bench player or whatever, it will not probably happen in 2010, neither in 2011. Ok, in 2012 the soonest. (Try to think about the peak of Rubio in terms of, let's say years 2012-2022. Yes, it brings some problems that Martin will be 29 at the beginning of the period and Shock will be 26. But that's just a fact, a fact that should be taken into the consideration (seven years difference between Martin and Rubio)).

That, however, does not mean he cannot help this team even immediately. Rubio is a pass-first pointguard with incredible passing skills (already) and court-vision (already). Besides that, as a combination of his court-vision, ballhandling and quickness, he is very able penetrator and very confident finisher (though using more of brain than brawn), so he can also score if necessary. His jumpshot is not perfect, but it's far from being hopeless and he can be effective even if forced to middle- and long-range shots. He is aggresive, team-first minded though still confident, purposeful, funny, willing-to-defend, coachable kid with a horrible haircut. Not a 'Next-Magic'.

Do you wish him to join the Kings? If yes, that's fine. But if you actually wish someone else - don't blame Rubio if he's not that one. And also try to rethink if that one actually exists...

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Comments

Great stuff KFfCE

by Aykis16 on Feb 17, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions

I enjoyed the article KFfCE

Especially the attempt to correlate what best seasons existed for PG’s over the last 10 years (although—you were missing quite a few of several guys—which I totally understand cuz it would have made the piece unbearable to read, but complete).

I enjoyed the analysis, and thanks as always passing it along. I’m not that worried about Ricky Rubio at this moment in time. But, it’s always something to consider.

I do think if Rubio comes over earlier, which is to his advantage as I’ve contended, he will end up making more money from endorsements and salaries here in the US than he could if he waits until 2010 or 11 to come over.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 12:47 PM PST reply actions

I definitely welcome any critique

Both on actual arguments, but also on the steps that have been undertaken. On PGs – I focused on players drafted in the last decade in top 15 (with few exceptions – Arenas and Parker) who can be definitely considered as point-guards (again, with few exceptions). Now I see some possibly important players that I might have included who have been drafted later (Rondo, West, Nelson, Williams – I actually overlooked Ridnour as a top 15 pick) and I can only guess that no significant conclusion other than that I gave would appear. If anybody thinks about any specific case that contradicts what I wrote, I am the first one who will be happy to read it. To map the names above was however enough work to do.

On the other note – trying to struggle with some news in Spanish, it really seems that noone knows what Rubio will do, probably neither he does. Which leads me again to probably only reasonable conclusion – to draft the best player available at the pick that Kings will get. And to have in mind that although this draft might mean a lot, it’s not for sure.

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 17, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions

Being critiqued is one way you learn

I only suggested that because the total effort seems undercut, although I didn’t feel it did to be honest. (I did the same thing yesterday with Win Shares.) It certainly made your point.

As far as how well Rubio can be projected in the NBA, that’s a great question. There is no actual answer to it, but there are plenty of people with the opinion that he’s a true player. Whether they still share that opinion is another matter, but the Olympics was an interesting time for Rubio. Especially when you consider Sergio Rodriguez is on the Spanish National team and got less minutes than Rubio did. I think that argues how much of a team guy he really is.

As far as whether Rubio is a great finisher inside is a matter of opinion. Gary Payton never dunked as far as I could tell, yet he always managed to gain separation from players going inside or elsewhere. He wasn’t at his best offensively until his later years, but overall his career is an interesting conrast of styles. Earlier on, he was at his greatest defensively, and a very good offensive player. In his later years he still had very good defensive qualities, but he was a superior offensive player at that point.

I think Gary Payton is the type of guy that Ricky Rubio is comparable to (which is a lot to chew on), but I say that because their body types are similar, and they have comparable abilities at the same age. The difference is of course, large. Payton is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Rubio is an interesting, perhaps impressive prospect, in which little “real” information is known.

Thanks for the breakdown KFfCE. I should probably read it all again to make sure I didn’t miss anything.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions

Just one point:

I am not saying Rubio is a ‘great’ finisher. It is indeed a questionable statement. Rather I think he is a ‘confident’ finisher.

And just a small correction on Rodriguez – he actually was not at the Olympics at all after a bad season in the league. Raul Lopez was the third pointguard. Which does not affect your argument however.

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 17, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions

Thanks for the correction

It’s important to be accurate.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions

I think uncertainty is what makes this draft so debatable

Besides Blake Griffin, I don’t think anyone really knows who is the best player available after the number one pick.

Do you take a chance on a young guy with lots of potential (Rubio, Jennings, Teague, Derozan =(just an example)).

Or do you decide to take a risk on a big like Thabeet, Hill, Monroe, etc. . This draft could turn out some future star but it seems more likely that most will be good role players at best.

I do agree that the Kings could use help at any position so we need to focus on the best player and hope we come out of the draft without a bust.

Great work on the comparisions by the way. I liked your work on comparing Jennings and Rubio too. Good to see some reviews on two guys I’m unfortunately unable to watch play.

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 1:18 PM PST reply actions

I think there would be a great argument

That Griffin is the clear #1 if Rubio comes out.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions

True

That would definately make our team debate taking Griffin. I guess it would depend on the draft order also. I’m just wondering if Rubio decides to enter the draft this year (he’ll probably be a top 3 pick for sure in this weak draft) and then comes over the next year, or if he doesn’t enter the draft until 2010 altogether.

I see your point though, especially for the Kings.

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 1:36 PM PST up reply actions

Eventually I'm going to write something about this point

But the basic point of it is, Rubio can actually make more coming over here in 2009, than he can if he comes over at any point in the next couple years.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions

How?

You think he would net some endorsements?

My only doubt is that he will owe $8 million to his club if he opts out for the NBA. I know he could make good money in the U.S. but thats a lot to give away. Besides that his wrist injury might have killed his chance to show off his full talents this year. I still think he will wait til 2010 to enter but hopefully I’m wrong. I don’t think we could go wrong drafting either Griffin or Rubio, they appear to be the best two choices.( If we get top pick)

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions

I hope the Kings get the top pick

And OKC gets the second. That way we can get an extra asset (Jeff Green?) for Ricky Rubio. That would be my personal hope.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions

On the other hand

Westbrook-Durant-Griffin-Chandler looks… scary

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 17, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions

yeah

OKC would have a great up and coming team if they could keep all their young talent.

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions

Notice how he left out Jeff Green

That could leave OKC getting a Blake Griffin if they have a pick high enough. It’s pretty exciting time despite the financial concerns that are going around.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions

Thats the type of rebuild I'm hoping for.

Minus the 10 bust centers they picked over the years. Hows Saer Sene working out? LOL Although I don’t see any Kevin Durants in this draft. (what a great year to suck!)

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions

I left him as a response to your thought of a trade

Otherwise ‘Westbrook-Green-Durant-Griffin-Chandler’ is…
something like ‘scary’ that my English is not good enough

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 17, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions

Here's the problem KFfCE

Where do you play Green or Durant? Green is not a 2, and neither is Durant, as his time under PJ proved.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions

Ok, let's not see that definitely as a line-up

Just the combination of those five players looks fine, no matter if you will try to adjust their game or trade one of those pieces for someone even more-fitting.

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 17, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions

Thats how you rebuild.

If you can stock pile a bunch of good assets during the current phase the kings are in you can use those later to pick up what your team needs. That seems to be the blue print for Portland and OKC minus the fact they struck gold with Roy and Durant.

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions

I don't think you can sell Oden short either

It’s not like he’s a scrub either Mitch.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 3:41 PM PST up reply actions

Of course not

I just haven’t got to see much of him and not sure if hes completely healed from all his inuries. With this last one I’m starting to wonder if he’ll ever be completely healthy.

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions

Of subject. Is Rubio still growing?

I know his jump shooting isn’t the greatest, but I was thinking that if he’s still growing, let’s say 2 or 3 inches, could he grow into a SG. You don’t see too many 6’5" or 6’6" PG’s.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Feb 17, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions

Which makes Rubio even more appealing in my view

And, yes, he’s already a legit 6’4 supposedly. It’s always possible he could be 6’6. But with his passing & court vision, it’s hard to imagine him being a SG.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 17, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions

Doubt they would do that

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 17, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions

I disagree

The only people that would argue that would be Rubio fans..the rest of the world already knows who’s the #1 pick

by hectic on Feb 21, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions

I Concur

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 22, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions

Really nice job

Thanks for the perspective and exhaustive statistical background.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Feb 17, 2009 9:44 PM PST reply actions

Nice work

I read it through with the help of a dictionary i borrowed from Aykis16..mayby an enlightening perspective for Rubio fans..do you think Rubio would be quicker then Jennings if he got rid of the bad haicut and just shaved his head?…..just kidding

by hectic on Feb 17, 2009 10:37 PM PST reply actions

Hi hectic

This is actually the answer to your note in the other thread on Rubio’s shooting.

Although he’s not a terrific shooter, he is not actually shooting 28… Perhaps you mean his shooting in the Euroleague. Which is fine but consider he did not play until December and then was recovering from his wrist injury and played 66 minutes in 5 games altogether. In the Spanish league, he’s actually shooting over 42 with three-point shooting over 42% as well. In the last five weeks, he is shooting 46% from the field as well as from the three-point range averaging 12.8 pts and 6.8 asts in 26 minutes per game. Last season, before his injury, he shot 47% from the field and 35% for three (in the Spanish league). His team did not play in the Euroleague last year, but in the second-tier ULEB Cup and Rubio shot 53% from the field and 35 for three. Not saying it means too much, though.

And by the way, this Friday, Rubio’s team is playing against Estudiantes Madrid where Samo Udrih, Beno’s older brother is playing…

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Feb 18, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions

Beno and Samo are such a great name combo.

They've done studies you know: 60% of the time, it works every time.

by submison on Feb 20, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah,and if Kings draft Rubio

It will be more of the Beno ’same-o"…lol

by hectic on Feb 20, 2009 11:42 PM PST up reply actions

Funny

how you call everyone a clown but the only idiot laughing at his own jokes is you, troll.

"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops

by eduardo_m7 on Feb 21, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions

Hey KFfCE

Your just not gonna let anything slip by on the numbers…lol .Thanks for the tip,but don’t know where i’d tune in for that game.Didn’t know Beno had a brother.Whats his game like?

by hectic on Feb 20, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions

Do not forget

Sebastian Telfair was drafted out of high school with the 13th pick in 2004 and finally now he is playing with a modicum of competency in Minnesota now. Frankly if the Kings end up with the #1 pick it really comes down to how the workouts go.

by mayfieldcol on Feb 18, 2009 8:26 AM PST reply actions

Agreed regarding the workouts

Though I hope that we don’t have to wait four and half years for our pick to play with a modicum of compentency.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 18, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions

Rubio is overrated

Rubio is about to be an average NBA point guard at best, probably a significant step up from Beno, but he will never make an allstar team. I will be so disappointed if the kings draft him, especially over someone like brandon jennings, who has so much potential

by seatown_kings_fan on Feb 20, 2009 11:43 AM PST reply actions

It amazes me how all these Jennings fans

Can predict the future of Rubio with such certainty.

Mambo King

by otis29 on Feb 20, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions

What has Jennings done to cause so much hype?

He couldn’t pass a simple entrance exam, He sucks in Europe. That makes him a future all star?

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Feb 20, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions

Man

Jenning is sure bored in Italy. He’s creating different accounts and posting in team’s blogs to try to get the fanbase to convince the front offices to draft him. You should be working on your game Brandon!!

"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops

by eduardo_m7 on Feb 20, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions

Jennings is all potential

And Rubio is more of a sure thing, a better commodity. Also, Rubio still has a lot of potential, as he is still becoming more athletic as well as taller. Jennings’ game looks like it’s based more on athleticism and luck, and on top of that he’s buddies with Marcus Williams, and thats a super red flag. Anyways, I see no reason why ANY team, or anyone in general would pick Jennings over Rubio right now.

They've done studies you know: 60% of the time, it works every time.

by submison on Feb 20, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions

Sure thing? In the draft?

No offense but check the history

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 22, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions

I never said

that Rubio WILL be a sure thing in the draft, I said that he’ll be more of a sure thing compared to Jennings, because Rubio has shown that he can play decently with the NBA elite, while Jennings hasn’t really shown that yet, and much of his appeal is based off potential.

They've done studies you know: 60% of the time, it works every time.

by submison on Feb 22, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions

Granted

Jennings hasn’t had as many opportunities to show what he’s made of as Rubio, but Jennings just hasn’t been playing as well as Rubio.

They've done studies you know: 60% of the time, it works every time.

by submison on Feb 22, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions

By the way

Great analysis, KingsFanfromCentralEurope.

They've done studies you know: 60% of the time, it works every time.

by submison on Feb 20, 2009 5:58 PM PST reply actions

Rubio is overrated

It is amazing to me how more people don’t see that Rubio is obviously overrated, he’s not fast, not athletic, not a great shooter, hes not strong. Scouts like him for his “poise and basketball IQ” but im sorry, it takes more than poise and basketball IQ to be the type of NBA player that deserves to be taken top 3 in the draft

by seatown_kings_fan on Feb 21, 2009 11:51 AM PST reply actions

I agree

And don’t see why Rubio fans ignore the facts

by hectic on Feb 21, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions

Oh that's right

I’m ignoring facts in deference to the spread of hyperbole and opinion.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

I'm not sold on Rubio but I do have some thoughts

Not particulary athletic PGs

Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
John Stockton
Deron Williams

Much less famous not very athletic PGs
(mostly forgotten)

So who knows?

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions