Same Story, Different Verse

by Tom Ziller on Feb 22, 2009 7:01 AM PST in Recaps

Again, none of the Kings' moves this week alone will fix the franchise.

But they set the team off in the right direction. The youth movement is bloody apparent. The focus on putting together a good mix, some pieces that fit together in a cogent way ... that's the plan.

Andres Nocioni will make more than two of 11 shots in the future. Kevin Martin doesn't have to play against Antoine Wright every night. Beno Udrih is not playing over his head. Francisco Garcia is not playing over his head.

Let's hope Spencer Hawes is not playing over his head.

Only 19 minutes for Jason Thompson, thanks to foul trouble and the apparent yanking of Shock when he complained to the refs too much. If it keeps J.T.'s temper under control, it's a good ploy. Now's the time to fix the attitude, right? (In fairness to Thompson, a few of those calls were atrocious, especially the uncalled push in the back by Erick Dampier.)

Things will get better. Udrih is turning out OK -- on the month, he's at 14/4. We want better, but it's the right direction after an awful December and January. Martin is allowed one bad game every couple weeks.

Yes, things will get better.

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But why do those bad nights keep happening against Antoine Wright…?

by Mlob on Feb 22, 2009 8:35 AM PST reply actions

Because Kevin responds poorly to physical play when he has to create 1 on 1

Kevin Martin is hurt by the lack of ball movement more than maybe anyone in today’s NBA.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Feb 22, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions

Peja vu all over again

by LPKingsFan on Feb 23, 2009 8:27 AM PST up reply actions

I don't think it's the physical part that totally throws him off

I think he can adjust to that. What he has a hard time is making the same level of plays he does unless you bump him all game long like Wright did.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 23, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions

And yet

Peja scored his career-high 41 against James Posey.

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 23, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions

And talked a lot of shit doing it too

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 24, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions

Sorry, I wasn't able to post earlier.

I did see the game though.

Couple of thoughts from someone new to Kings bball. KMart seemed to score more and easier against Bulls when I saw him last. Wright seemed to bother him. Was it Wright or did KMart just just have a bad night?

Garcia has nice moves to the hoop but has a tendency to commit too early before figuring out what he wants to do. Couple of times he was in the air already before he realized he was trapped and then tried to look for an open man. But overall, a nice player who should be trying to finish in the lane and get the foul.

Hawes seemed a bit tentative on his moves to the basket, settling for lay ups and bank shots that missed after getting stuffed at the rim. He needs to take it harder tand try to make his defender commit to giving him the foul. And if he gets blocked, then go up harder the next time he gets the chance.

JT got into foul trouble early then got stuffed a couple of times but I liked the way he went back into the paint. If he could learn how to use his left hand and maybe a post move or two, he could be money in the bank.

Udrih had a nice offensive game but maybe needs to get his teammates better shots?

Nocer had a bad game offensively (2-11) but I think he showed how the youngsters how a thing or two about defense He had Nowitzki for about 4 minutes in the 1st quarter and forced Nowitzki into a bad miss and then denied him the ball the rest of the quarter. In the 3rd-4th, Nowitzki scored 2 pts on him but missed on two other shots and fouled Noce twice. Noce also had 7 rebounds (2nd highest) and 3 assists (second to Udrih).

Overall, a game the Kings can build on. Need to see more of Greene though.

by PatBull on Feb 22, 2009 8:38 AM PST reply actions

Udrih's resurgence just confirms my worst fears about him...

…he’s a head-case who will only play with urgency when either he’s just been waived by the Twolves and is in danger of back-sliding out of the NBA altogether, or he’s just been seriously shopped at the trade deadline (and realizes he’s once again in danger of getting a massive thumbs-down from his employer).

In other news, who’s Antoine Wright?

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Feb 22, 2009 9:41 AM PST reply actions

LOL

I want to know who James Singleton and why was he the player of the game?

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Feb 22, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions

I want to know who James Singleton and why was he the player of the game?

He’s the guy the Kings are going to sign to a 5 year, $30 million deal this summer. No wait, that’s Antione Wright. No, Brandon Bass. Why not all three?

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Feb 22, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions

You seem to have incredible insight into the psychology of a man you've never met.

Its a rare gift, use it wisely.

by Deleran on Feb 22, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions

Thompson...

I LOVE Jason Thompson. I have been an advocate of his since watching him play in Summer League, even going as far as to anoint him as my starter before training camp ended. I took flack when I made statements about Thompson being better than Sheldon Williams after his second or third Summer League game. Saying all of this….I am sick of his cry baby bullshit. He is getting bad calls because he bitches the entire game about every rebound, every offensive take and every defensive foul. Thompson still holds the ball too low, allowing smaller players to swipe at it. He is so active on the glass but he often picks up stupid fouls on push in the backs when he hasn’t worked himself into better position and lastly he often forces the action offensively, picking up obvious charge calls.

All of these things can be fixed with coaching but the constant bitching just needs to stop now. I still LOVE the guy but if he doesn’t stop with the complaining, he is going to have a huge target on his back going forward. Shut up and play JT, you have the ability to dominate this game, don’t let your mouth hold you back.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Feb 22, 2009 12:10 PM PST reply actions

It's both

Jason is getting a TON of rookie calls AND bitching too much at the officials, especially about legit foul calls.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Feb 22, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions

It's not fun to watch.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Feb 22, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions

The League

should have continued to enforce the “no arguing” rule that they put in place 2 or 3 seasons ago. It is simply ridiculous that every single call is questioned. I can’t stand watching that cry-baby BS; and it sets a terrible example for the youth watching the games.

by Kusian on Feb 22, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions

Natt benched him for it

good move I hope

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 22, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions

With you JJ

Love JT but he needs to stop the complaining. It’s just going to give him a bad rep with the refs that’s going to haunt him for the rest of his career. One of the big reasons everyone hated Brad was his whining. I would hate for people to be turned off by JT because of the same shit. Someone really needs to pull him aside and tell him to seriously stop

"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops

by eduardo_m7 on Feb 22, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions

When your emotions are so engrained believing something

It’s hard to change that ed. That’s the trick the coaching staff will have with JT moving forward. Prodding him to learn how to use his emotions differently.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 22, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions

Hmmmmm, Pookey are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting?

the coaching staff will have with JT moving forward. Prodding him to learn how to use his emotions differently.

Shock therapy for Shock???

by betweentheeyes on Feb 22, 2009 11:43 PM PST up reply actions

No

I was suggesting that a long term subtle approach would work better with him. He’s already committed. He’s already engaged. He’s already interested. He just needs to make that effort, maybe it’s a physical effort even, to not let things like Referee calls bother you. (That’s one of the few things I liked about Artest.)

He just needs to learn that he’s going to have to deal with this type of stuff if he wants to get to that next level. If you take away his emotions, he’s going to be a robot, and he’ll just be a stiff. His emotions drive him; what he needs to learn how to do is how to use them in a positive way, in expression and drive, as opposed in a negative way vocally when a call goes against him he doesn’t agree with.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 23, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions

thanks for clarification

how about shock therapy for Ron-Ron?

That’s one of the few things I liked about Artest.

by betweentheeyes on Feb 23, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions

Mslcolm McDowell wants to talk to you

I heard the discussion is taking place over a lawsuit. :P

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 24, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions

on behalf of Alex

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well

by betweentheeyes on Feb 24, 2009 6:44 PM PST up reply actions

I'm

just happy that I have a reason to watch the Kings. I want to see how they gel. I dont care if they lose, just want to see progress.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

by Dub_TC on Feb 22, 2009 12:42 PM PST reply actions

We need a pure defensive big-man in the rotation

I know its not easy – but we should check the waiver wire for a fill-in

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 22, 2009 12:59 PM PST reply actions

All I can do is cry

I hate watching the Boston Celtics play. Every time I do I am reminded that Petrie picked Quincy Douby over Rajon Rondo. Why? WHY!?!? WWHHHYYYY!?!?!?!?!?

Sigh

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 22, 2009 1:15 PM PST reply actions

Would Rajon Rondo be the same if he was drafted by the Kings?

And didn’t get the chance to play with Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen, and also a great coach in Doc Rivers, on a team with no primary point guard?

Instead he would have had 3 coaches, been Bibby’s backup meaning less playing time and not have as many options.

Douby can still do well in this leauge if he finds someone willing to play him.

by Aykis16 on Feb 22, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions

Agree about Rondo but I don't think so on Douby.

I hope Douby speaks Italian or maybe Russian because he won’t be playing in the U.S. next season.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Feb 22, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions

He'd be better than Douby

but I get your point

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 22, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions

Tale of Two Cities

Rajon Rondo in Boston = World Champion.

Rajon Rondo in Sacramento = Orien Greene.

Not completely fair, as Rondo is superior to Greene. But he’s still not a great shooter, and assists are scarce with the talent on our roster. So he would have been a defensive PG on a pretty poor defensive team had he come here.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 22, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Not only that

Until his shooting improves, his assists wouldn’t be that high either. I think Rondo would be great for this team, but it’s not like he would be mentioned as an all-star in Sacramento right now.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 22, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions

I Disagree

Would OJ Mayo be Quincy Douby if he were on the Kings? How about Russell Westbrook? Would he be Orien Greene? Would Brandon Roy be so-so if he were a King? Talent is talent. Rondo may not be getting 10 assists a game and being thought of as an “almost” all-star player, but he would still be the speedy, SMART and intelligent player he is for Boston. He might actually be scoring more points on the Kings then he does on Boston. Sorry, but talent is talent. Orien Green could be picked up on a 10 day on the Lakers tomorrow but guess what everybody: HE WOULD STILL SUCK!

Sorry, the Kings should have picked Rondo. Period. End of story.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 22, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions

so you are saying that talent is talent and that the team and system you play for doesn't matter?

SO that point guard kid that was drafted #15 by the Phoenix Suns in 1996 and was traded to Dallas because he just wasn’t all that great – (in exchange for Martin Muursepp, Bubba Wells, the draft rights to Pat Garrity and a first-round draft pick two years later in 1998) shouldn’t have been traded. I guess I agree…..

Because he eventually made his way back to Phoenix some years later, that Steve Nash guy.

by betweentheeyes on Feb 22, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions

It matters

But not so much that Orien Greene can go to Boston and play as good as Rajon Rondo is. When Steve Nash was on Phoenix in his first two seasons in the league, the Suns had a point guard named Kevin Johnson. I think we know somthing about him. He was pretty good. When Rajon Rondo started his career in Boston, the Celtics had the amazing and astounding Sebastian Telfair. Wow. Yah, needless to say Rajon outplayed him and earned the starting job the next season.

Kevin Johnson > Sebastian Telfair – by a WHOLE LOT. Telfair has been on three teams in his 5 year NBA carreer….and he has sucked on all of them.

If the Suns wouldn’t have had KJ, I would think that Nash might have got more play and would not have been traded. Talent is talent when it’s all said and done and while the system the teams plays does make a difference, no player becomes great only because of the system they play in. Eddie House will be a great 3-pt shooter on any team he plays for no matter what the system. On some teams the system will dictate that he gets fewer shots then in other systems, but there is no system in the world which will all of a sudden see him dishing out 10 assists a game or getting 2.5 steals a game. He doesn’t have that talent.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 23, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions

between the eyes

He mostly played behind Kidd in Phoenix.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 23, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions

and KJ

I know, the point is still the same

by betweentheeyes on Feb 23, 2009 6:22 PM PST up reply actions

I'm not arguing

about whether or not the Kings should have chosen Rondo. That’s beyond speculation. But I stand by my statement that Rondo would not be the player that he is today had he come here. In that same vein, Beno would be a much, much better PG if he were in Boston right now.

PG’s make their teammates better, but teammates make their PG’s better, too.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 23, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions

Better players around you can make you a better player

There’s truth in that, but who knows?
The Kings roster would possibly have developed differently, Beno probably would not be here and those $$ would have gone somewhere else, maybe for the better – maybe not.

In a team situation one piece can be a domino – or it can just be one piece.

So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,

Now set the teeth - and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Feb 23, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions

Beno?

Beno played for San Antonio. That’s a pretty good team. Here are some stats:

Per 36 minutes:
His last year with the Spurs: 12.9 pts, 4.6 assists, 3.1 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 2.1 turnovers.
This year with Sacramento: 13.3 pts, 5.2 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 2.6 turnovers.

Beno has also been playing a bit worse this year than last but his stats are still better than his third season when he was on a championship team.

Your theory that a player will play better for a playoff caliber team and not as good for a lottery team does not hold true in many other circumstances as well. Rafer Alston for instance, had the best season of his career with the 33-49 Raptors in 2004-05 season even though he has been playing for the Houston Rockets in there last two playoff seasons. Smush Parker played for the playoff bound Lakers for two seasons but his best season statistically was his first with the 17-65 Cavs.

Devin Harris played his first four seasons for the Dallas Mavericks including 2006-07 when they went 65-17. This year with the 24-32 Nets, he is having, BY FAR his best season statistically.

Again Section, I appreciate what you are saying but in practice it is rare that a mediocre player goes to a playoff team and becomes a semi-star just because of the change of teams. Orien Greene will never be as good as Rajon Rondo and Beno, if he were to go to the Celtics next season may be looked at as a “semi-star” even though his stats may not improve much.

I think maybe what you are saying (or maybe I am saying it) is that a player like Rondo with the stats he has may be thought of as a “semi-star” but if he were on the Kings and putting up the EXACT same stats would just be thought of as just enother average to good player on a bad team.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 23, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions

to wrap it all up: we all agree

by betweentheeyes on Feb 23, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions

Opinion respected, but disagreed

Beno backed up Parker in San Antonio – probably not a fair comparison.

Alston and Parker are chuckers, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Harris had a good situation in Dallas, learned, and took it to the next level in New Jersey, where he is still playing with some legitimate talent.

If Rondo had come here his assits numbers would be a shadow of what they are now. Throwing passes to KG/Pierce/Allen > than JT/Salmons/Martin. Also, in the Kings system point guards shoot, and perimeter shooting has not been Rondo’s forte. So, would Rondo have earned and maintained big minutes here as a low assist, low shooting percentage, defensive point guard? It’s anyone’s guess.

Yes, Rondo would have been a much better pick than Douby and a legitimate pro. But my opinion is that he would not be the player in Sacramento that he has become in Boston. I could be dead wrong about this – I don’t think that I am.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 23, 2009 9:46 PM PST up reply actions

Which came first the chicken or the egg.

When I watch Spencer run down the court and start fighting for position in the low post only to see the ball passed from the PG to a Wing, I hope that Spencer doesn’t get frustrated and stops even trying anymore. Then I think, how would it be if we had a PG who could get the ball to teammates in scoring position. How many more points would Spencer have? And, if he got successful, would the other team have to start doubling him. And, if they did double team him and he learned to pass out of the double to an open man, how much better would everyone be shooting if they got the ball where they wanted or were open.

I know that’s a lot of IF"s, sorry that’s how my brain works. The point is would Rondo be able to help everyone become better shooters, and in doing so become a great playmaking PG. The chicken & the egg.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Feb 24, 2009 1:40 AM PST up reply actions

Good points

When Theus was coaching, he used Beno mainly in pick and rolls. He let Beno come off picks and decide whether to do one of four things.
1. Pass
2. Shoot
3. Drive and shoot
4. Drive and pass

I think we have learned that Beno, while a decent playmaker, is no Chris Paul or Steve Nash. So, Natt has seemingly disregarded this philosophy with Beno.

Now, instead of Beno, put Rondo in this scenario. I don’t see how Rondo would NOT be much better as a decision maker than Beno is/was. Yes, he would not shoot as well as Beno, but he would be a better at passing and driving to the rim. Again, we all have our views and unless we can go back in time and pick Rondo, there is no way to know for sure. I still stick with my opinion that Rondo would never have been a Orien Greene if he would have been on the Kings. Rondo is a better passer, MUCH faster, comes off picks more skillfully, has a better basketball IQ as a point guard and is a better floor leader. He would have brought these talents to the Kings. I agree that his assists would not be as high, but I doubt they would be worse than Beno’s.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Feb 24, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions

I'm going to give the Kings the benefit of the doubt on this game

2 new players playing, didn’t really know what the plays were, weren’t used to their teammates, and they still managed to play decently. Spencer was Hawesome (new nickname?), Beno was playing like we pay him too, but the 2 big reasons we lost by 21 were Antoine Wright and Brandon Bass.

Wright shut K-Mart down, and Bass was phenomenal. He wasn’t just over powering our bigs, he was shooting over them. He had quite a few jumpers with a hand in his face. Very impressed with his game.

As for Shock, he played ok while he was in (not one of his better games) but Coach Natt earned some respect with me for benching him after his complaining. In all probability, Natt isn’t going to be here next year, so he should use these games to teach the young players what is and isn’t right. It will be good for them and set the tone for when the real coach comes in.

And I was impressed with Nocioni. He had some shots that he probably would make normally, but he was probably a little out of sync with the offense. I was impressed with his defense and the 7 boards. And Donte also played well when he was in.

Overall, the Kings lost by 21 to a playoff team, with 2 new players that haven’t learned a play and don’t know their teammates. They’ve done worse. I’m hopeful.

by Aykis16 on Feb 22, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions

I'm very impressed with Bass' game too

I’ve been a fan and think he could add a different dimension to our frnt court, on top of what Shock and Hawes add.

Question: Bass being an unrestricted FA this summer, would you (not just Aykis but everyone here) sign him and how much you think he’s worth?

"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops

by eduardo_m7 on Feb 22, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions

I betcha the Mavs use their full MLE

to keep him… which probably is too much… so anything more than that and you could probably have him cuz the Mavs cant go any higher.

by Toddy on Feb 22, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions

Curious as too hear your opinion

on revisiting the stack, bass for artest deal this summer. Obviously Stack is like a bag of marbles, but wonder if that deal you guys did with Houston still bests the Mavs offer, or if you’d at least think twice in the deal that included Bass? Pookey?

by Toddy on Feb 22, 2009 2:57 PM PST reply actions

I think most here

would rather have had Donté Greené and Houston’s upcoming #1 than Bass, including me.

Was that the deal, Artest for Stack (expiring) + Bass?

by ForThree on Feb 22, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions

Donte has more upside than Bass

and we don’t know who Houston’s #1 is going to be yet. All in all I would have to agree with ForThree.

by Aykis16 on Feb 22, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions

Regardless of wether or not he's a good player

The Donte Greene show is great. Should keep him around for that reason alone.

by Deleran on Feb 22, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions

Agreed with all 3 of you guys

Plus Bobby Jax expiring and return to Sac is better than Stackhouse semi-expiring contract

"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops

by eduardo_m7 on Feb 22, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions

Rather have Houston's deal Toddy

Much rather have Houston’s deal for a variety of reasons. Stack would still be owed money, which would have only hurt the bottom line for the Maloof’s (and if anybody noticed—Petrie spent all week saving them roughly 20 million dollars before draft picks are included next summer), and not only that, there is still a lot of belief internally regarding Donte Greene.

So to answer your question Toddy: No. Houston’s late 1st rounder, B-Jax’s expiring contract and Donte Greene are exactly what the Kings needed from this deal. I like Bass myself, but as a rotation player, and as you mention up top, I wouldn’t pay him more than the Mid Level.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Feb 22, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions