Only Fitting
It's only that on a night when Chris Webber is recognized and the Glory era team is remembered that the refs would screw the Kings.
Four absolutely awful calls in the closing minutes.
1. Offensive foul on Jason Thompson. On a breakaway lay-up in which Thompson stopped short of the basket, Korver slid under a mid-stride J.T. and drew the charge. One of the worst calls of the season, bar none. Thompson made the lay-up, but they took it off the board.
2. Offensive foul on Kevin Martin. The backbreaker with the score tied at 105 with 34 seconds left. Again, Martin was in mid-stride when Deron Williams slide under. This play is sold complely by the fall backward by Williams. It's not a flop because there was contact -- but Williams wasn't there in time and if he hadn't been trained in proper foul-selling method it doesn't get called. Martin hit the runner, but it was taken off the board. That's four points (and two unclaimed FTAs) taken off the board by bad offensive foul calls.
3. Continuation on Williams' runner after Bobby Jackson's foul. While the refs canceled actual Kings baskets, they gave Williams at least one he shouldn't have received. Jackson fouled Williams in mid-stride. Williams landed with the lead foot ... then took another bound into the air before pulling the trigger! It went step-foul-step-shot. And Williams got continuation. That extra point tends to make a difference in tied games.
4. Swallowed whistle on Martin's attempt. Kings down two after the aforementioned bad calls; seven seonds left. To that point 54 fouls had been called -- one every fourth possession, roughly. The refs called the game extremely tightly, especially in the second half. Five players finished with at least five fouls. Eight players had at least four fouls. No contact permitted. And Martin basically gets hugged on a jumper attempt by Mehmet Okur. Yes, Martin created the contact ... as he did all night! And for 47 minutes, 53 seconds, the refs called it. Martin had 18 FTAs. It has been well-established that contact will be whistled. Williams got to the line on every touch. Martin got to the line (or got called for a dubious charge) on every touch. Consistency is all we ask. But ... nothing.
The refs didn't swallow the whistle in the fourth quarter, or in crunch time. They waited until basically the final play. Awesome work, fellows. You beat the Kings.
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Meanwhile,
The NBA is closely examining tapes to determine whether or not Lebron James’ latest triple double was, in fact, a triple double.
According to Marc Stein
They’ve determined it wasn’t. Check out #2.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
you left out
the two fouls they called on JT to start the third when JT was just standing there, once JT went to the bench the Jazz went on to erase the kings lead
Agreed
Jason Thompson’s fourth foul was one of the worst calls I have ever seen. The shoulder to the chest was a joke.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
ywah
those charging fouls were BS
Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina. .
Talk about piling on!
Not only have we become easy for most teams to beat, but the refs have to beat us as well.
Terrible, terrible call on the JT charge. I hope Korver’s ribs are broken. He sure got up slow.
Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 7, 2009 8:19 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
In my rule books
You must always recommend statement’s that inflict pain on opposing players when bullshit happens.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
I disagree about the swallowing of the whistle on Martin's attempt
It’s one of my pet peeves in basketball that a player tries to use the officials to bail them out in end game situations. I thought the play was a good no call. He leaned into Okur and did some acting, that’s how I saw the play.
This no call was reminiscent of the play at the end of Game 3 in 2004 West Semis vs. the Timberwolves when Peja leaned against Hassell to draw the foul and then Adelman cries how Peja doesn’t get enough respect from the refs.
Why not get a clean look at the basketball instead of hoping officials bail them out? Put it in your hands not the officials.
BOOK IT!
I agree with you. It looked like he turned the corner, saw Okur was there and he wouldn’t be able to get a shot off, and tried to draw contact. Okur held his arms up in the air and backed away, and the shot fell short.
Calls are rarely made in those kinds of game-deciding situations unless a player gets mauled. Teams simply can’t rely on the officials to bail them out when the game is on the line, which is the exact way it should be.
There were plenty of other bad calls, but I’m perfectly fine with the no-call on Kevin.
Agree and Disagree
I agree that it was a good no call. However I disagree that it shouldn’t have been called. TZ’s observation is correct that KMart was getting calls that were more marginal than the final King’s play and he got the calls.
Overall, poor officiating which has been my #1 pet peeve about about the league for years now, reared it’s ugly head and again the Kings came up on the wrong end. Especially in the third quarter with JT having to sit. To me, that was the main turning point of the game because despite in my opinion a decent effort from Mikki, he just doesn’t make the same impact in a game as Shock.
by SeattleRoyalty on Feb 7, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
Unfortunately
Superstars on good teams get the call in those situations, and we don’t have that going for us. Basically a lack of respect thing.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 7, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
Forgive the double post...
But TZ’s point was that Martin had been getting those calls all night, why not then?
www.mancancook.net
Still
I think Kevin should put the game in his own hands and shoot a wide open shot instead of trying to run into people hoping the refs bail you out. My point is to look beyond the previous 47 minutes and 50 or so seconds.
BOOK IT!
Can't totally argue that
I think this is another question of toughness. A soft player tries to get hit, a tough player leaves the opposing team no choice.
Kevin lacks some of that toughness. I think a lot of it has to do with his mentality. He’s earned some respect from the refs and now he knows he can get those calls a lot of the time. But, he hasn’t realized that he can’t get them all the time. And because he hasn’t realized this he relies on getting calls more than going hard and trying to make the shot.
www.mancancook.net
Ya in the game thread
We were saying how the refereeing had been horrible, but the non call on Martin was correct. Ziller made a great point though with his saying that they’d been calling bs all game, they might as well have given us that one.
I would add
There was a play in (I think) the mid fourth quarter where Okur absolutely mowed Thompson down, to the point where I thought Thompson was injured and the refs called absolutely nothing.
Bullshit officiating for the entire second half.
Shut up and Coach
Incredible
I would expect a lot of whining especially with Webber in the stands. I just didn’t expect it from Kings fans.
Yeah you guys are struggling, but don’t go blame losses on refs. It’s the weakest excuse in the book. KMart got bailed out plenty.
Both of Deron’s continuation calls were 100% legit. Perhaps you should be more upset at Udrich for letting Deron abuse him again, and again, and again.
Fact is, the Jazz won the game because they have a true leader in Deron Williams. The Kings only have a Pseudo leader in KMart.
Don’t blame the refs.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
nice trolling
The 3rd quarter was abysmally officiated, and there’s no question a lot of calls at the end of the game were questionable. Go flee back to your hole in the desert, we have every right to complain about the performance of the refs last night.
I’m eagerly awaiting your whining on your boards in the playoffs this spring when your guys get screwed over by the refs favoring San Antonio or the L*kers over your “true leaders”, we’ll see your true colors then.
The fact is, some games are better officiated than others and some players get a lot more calls than others, deservedly or not.
And someone from a small market team like the Jazz..
Should be used to BS ref calls.
Rare
Rare is the occasion when we bitch about calls, because rare is the occasion where it is warranted. When it is warranted, we complain. And to insist that (at the very least) the Thompson charge didn’t matter is ridiculous.
Go away and never come back.
Now I know why
so many people talk shit on True Blue Jazz. With ambassador’s like that, yikes!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Can't stop laughing
I don’t think he will be logging onto this site anytime soon.
by nothingbutnet on Feb 7, 2009 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
No one will argue against your points
our team is terrible, we know. Which makes it even worse that the refs stole the game from us.
Look at the questionable fouls. I won’t even argue the Kevin no-call and Deron’s continuation. Just look at the first two and the point swing they caused:
1 – Offensive on JT: Should have been a shooting/blocking foul. He made the shot and should’ve got to the line. That’s 2 or +3 points if he makes the free throw.
2 – Offensive on K-Mart: Ditto. +2 or3 points
That’s 4 to 6 more Kings’ points we lost on atrocious calls. Which is OT or a win.
So don’t be a trolling little douche bag telling us about or PG’s defensive failings or our leader’s lack of leadership. We already know, you ass! This was like the one night that was important to the Kings and their fans and we all got screwed out of a good win.
www.mancancook.net
You SIR are an AZZ BAT !!
Please go back to your 12 wives and tell them your BS story. The nerve of Jazz Fan coming here to tell us we are whiners. The Jazz are the most flop happy group of foulers the NBA has ever known. Sloan’s MO is foul on EVERY play because they cant call them all… Pathetic. Be glad to see the Jazz go down to Houston or Lakers on bad calls and hear Jazz Fan whine and cry about the unfairness.. Pathetic..
I have cut the Mouth and Nose out of my Paper Bag, but I am contemplating not cutting out any EYE HOLES so I don't have to watch this mess at all...
Refs
The Kings have lost 40 games this year. This is the only game, the ONLY ONE, this season where the refs played a large part in the game’s outcome.
So we’re not on here bitching about the refs all the time. We’re bitching about the refs THIS TIME because they did such a terrible job in THIS GAME.
Shut up and Coach
I agree the officiating wasn't great...
but there were still several instances in the second half of the game last night, where Kings were trying too hard to draw contact on their shot, rather than make the extra pass to an open teammate. Sure, you need to be aggressive and get to the foul line, but you shouldn’t be looking to get to the charity stripe every other play
Grant Napier is a Ginger, he can't help it that he's annoying.
by Dastardly D on Feb 7, 2009 11:13 AM PST reply actions
Begging for calls is one thing..
Consistently getting stiffed by the officials on call after call is deplorable. The Kings will never get ANY respect from officials, and that effects free agents decisions to come to Sacto and makes it hard to retain talent when they know they could play elsewhere and not have to deal with the refs so much… This is about MONEY. That is the NBA. That is how players like Gasol end up in LA for nothing, and the Kings couldn’t trade their entire team and get anyone to come play here… MONEY
I have cut the Mouth and Nose out of my Paper Bag, but I am contemplating not cutting out any EYE HOLES so I don't have to watch this mess at all...
No call on takedown
I think JT did charge into Korver. Where they missed the call on that play was on the steal attempt by Bobby Jackson, where Deron Williams basically took him down rather than allow the steal. Should have been two free throws and the ball.
Bottom line, though: Williams took over the game in crunch time and we couldn’t stop him. Allowing Okur to shoot the open three was also a dagger. You have to make him put it on the floor.
The Kings showed heart, and there were a lot of plusses in the game to build on.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 7, 2009 11:58 AM PST reply actions
Just to add to that
Williams made a difference on both ends. The game basically shifted at the point when Okur drained the three to tie the score and they switched Williams onto KMart.
We were up 105-102 and ended up losing 111-107. A 9-2 run to end the game in crunch time. You have to give the Jazz credit, and particularly Williams and Okur. They stepped up when it counted.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 7, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Right on
A lot of these games we’ve lost, it’s really been hard to find positives to take from the game and build on. Yes, it sucks to get shafted on bad calls. But it’s awesome that we went up against a playoff-bound team, made it a thrilling game, and played well enough to have won were it not for some shady officiating.
It’s good to have a game where we don’t have to search too hard to find positives.
Bad Officiating ??
Who amongst you believes the Kings will ever get good officiating? If I saw the effort that Utah was exerting and the lackadaisical effort by the Kings on far too many plays, I would give every call to Utah as well. We have NEVER gotten calls from the Refs ( Ie Game 6 Debacle). They are not going to change now. Instead of lifting a player jersey retired into the rafters with other jerseys, there should have been a championship banner there too. The refs will never give Sacramento credit. Sacramento will have force respect by earning it on the court. This isn’t LA, where credit is given without being earned. That is just the way it is and always will be. Anyone who says that NBA officials are unbiased and fair have their heads so far up their asses that they can see Denmark. As good a commissioner as Stern has been for the game of basketball, he has been a complete disaster in regard to fair and unbiased officiating. The Tim Doneghy debacle was not the ONLY stain on NBA OFFICIALS. There is no accountability for bad officiating, or even criminal officiating in the NBA. The game is unfair. Deal with it or go watch football where the officials are held accountable for their actions and forced to do their jobs effectively. The Kings and Sacramento WILL NEVER GET A FAIR DEAL FROM OFFICIALS EVER EVER EVER PERIOD !! Don’t believe it??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRPYjdgStns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fHi0TADk3o&feature=related
The truth is out there…… Let us not EVER FORGET !!!
I have cut the Mouth and Nose out of my Paper Bag, but I am contemplating not cutting out any EYE HOLES so I don't have to watch this mess at all...
Maybe they dug as far as China
Don’t be so critical. :)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
no respect
This is all about not respecting equally all teams/players.
Some players like Wade, LeBron, Kobe etc draw fouls with just a wind blow. Other players like ours commit fouls just by looking.
Hey -
It was a night of looking back. The ref’s just followed suit.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 7, 2009 2:12 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Item #3
TZ, I sit on the baseline and that foul called on BJax was more controversial than the continuation IMO. Deron drove into Bobby with his shoulder. While its not clear that Bobby had position, Deron did more than just beat Bobby to a spot on the floor… in other words, it could have just as easily gone without a call or been called an offensive foul… especially in light of the offensive fouls called on JT and KMart you mentioned. On the JT foul, does anyone think Bobby fouled Deron in the scramble for the ball prior to JT’s break? I thought maybe the ref quickly made up for the missed call at mid court by whistling JT. Not saying it was right, but make-up calls certainly occur.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Feb 7, 2009 2:14 PM PST reply actions
A few other ways the refs screwed us:
1. Because of those horrible calls in the 3rd quarter, we had to take out Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes (less so Spencer, that was more a Natt decision since he only had 3 fouls). Jason was bringing it all night long. He was playing the same in the first half as he did the second, the only difference was that the refs started calling him for breathing. Spencer also had been playing well, I think Natt took him out because he was afraid he was going to get into foul trouble because of the refs. First half, Spence had 3 blocks. Those probably would have been called as fouls in the second half.
2. That offensive on JT when he got called for the offensive on Korver would have been Korver’s 6th. That takes out a great shooter for the Jazz.
3. Mehmet Okur who killed us, had a non-offensive foul called when he drilled JT into the ground. That would’ve put him with 6 fouls as well.
Officiating was unforgivably horrible. And Natt’s probably going to get fined too because he called them out on it. If the NBA cared so much about LBJ’s triple double, they should review the officiating in this game, and mainly the lack of consistency between halves.
by Aykis16 on Feb 7, 2009 2:21 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if Natt
will receive an interim fine.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 7, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point
About the 6th fouls on Korver and Okur. That would totally have changed the end of the game.
And Section, I don’t think Natt will ever get fined for criticizing the refs. Unless hanging your head and rubbing your forehead counts as criticizing the refs.
Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 7, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Offensive fouls
I call shenanigans on offensive fouls. If you don’t want to get run over by the guy with the ball heading to the hoop, then stay out of his way and maybe explore a career change.
That is the single most whiny call (regardless of who it is called on Mr. CB Jack). I thought the one called on the Jazz later on was BS too. If you don’t want to get banged around a bit, you don’t belong on the court.
Bottom line is that there is something very very wrong when the REFS call the tempo of the game. The first half just rocked. Players played basketball. They stayed away from the line and the resulting drop in energy. They ran from one end to the other. The blocked shots and made shots. Constant foul calls CHANGES THE GAME. No matter who is on the receiving end.
If owners want fans to turn out, they better start letting them see some basketball being played. Fans get bored and restless when all the players are doing is shooting free throws. Free throws aren’t basketball.
The owners can demand a change in the way fouls are called. If they want our money… if they want filled arenas… they have to make it so basketball players can actually play the game.
sorry guys
I don’t like to win that way. A game that close deserved a better ending. There were bogus calls both ways, but the Jazz ended up the beneficiary of most of them, and when that decides a tight game, it’s definitely uncool.
I will say, the final play, the no-call on Martin’s final shot, was correct, in my opinion. As has been said, Martin initiated all the contact. And regardless of how the rest of the game had been called, you simply can’t expect a foul call in that situation. Fouls are rarely, if ever, called on the final possession. It doesn’t matter what has gone before. Players know this. They should not expect the call. Had the situation been reversed, with Deron Williams drawing contact with Thompson or something, I would not have expected a call.
Then again, I can hardly fault the Kings for a lack of aggression when two crippling and questionable offensive fouls were called moments earlier.
Don’t mind CB Jack — he enjoys being belligerent. Loved the Old Spaghetti Factory joke, though, that was awesome. (Brainless polygamy jokes are significantly less awesome.)
Okay, I’ve spoken my piece. Much respect to you for a game well played. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Jazz hatred.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
The only problem with your logic
is that the situation was reversed numerous times and the Jazz got the call. The Okur shoulder into JT in the 3rd is an excellent example.
There is no reason to believe based on the way the game was called that if the situation had been reversed that Williams would not have gotten that same call. In fact based on the way the 2nd half was called, I consider it more than likely that Williams would have gotten that same call.
I guess we should consider ourselves lucky we didn’t get called for another offensive foul.
Call it consistent, call it both ways. That’s all I ask. Call it a foul, don’t call it a foul. I doesn’t matter to me as long as it’s the same on both ends. In this game it was not the same both ways. That’s my only complaint.
Oh, one more thing. The idea that the refs should call the game one way for the first 47 minutes of the game and then swallow the whistles for the last minute is fucking ludicrous. If it’s a foul in the first minute, it’s a foul on the last play. If it’s not a foul in the last minute, then it shouldn’t be called in the first.
If you call it any other way it’s a mockery. If it is known that the refs will not call fouls on the final plays, then the players will “foul” on those plays and if they go uncalled it’s just a sham.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 8, 2009 5:50 AM PST up reply actions
There are members of the LDS here
But more importantly, polygamy jokes are stupid. Which is why we only use those jokes on them, rather than blanket them on the whole state of Utah (which is naturally all Morman anyway).
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Reality
If you call it any other way it’s a mockery. If it is known that the refs will not call fouls on the final plays, then the players will "foul" on those plays and if they go uncalled it’s just a sham.
I think in the last minute they don’t want to be the ones deciding the game. It’s kind of a “let the players play” thing, so if it’s questionable at all, you generally won’t get the call. Unfortunately there is a double standard for stars and if anyone will get the calls in that situation, it will be them.
Naturally, if it is a clear hack, the refs should blow the whistle. Often they don’t.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 8, 2009 11:59 AM PST reply actions
Exaclty
Do you think that this “policy” has just a little bit to do with the reason officiating in the NBA is questioned more than any other sport? I think it’s this issue and the “superstar” call and the rookie call that cause 95% of the questioning of the referees in the NBA.
The problem with the “let the players play” philosophy is that the players know that’s whats happening and they take advantage of it, by fouling, with the knowledge that they can push the guy around some without fear of a call.
I believe that if the refs called the game consistently and the defense didn’t want to put the guy on the line, the league would quickly settle into a situation where there aren’t more fouls deciding the games, but where fouls are called. It would be better for the league.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 8, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Basketball is Unique
Fewer players on the court means each player makes more of an impact. No helmets or hats means every superstar is recognizable worldwide, and the NBA markets itself that way as well. So it is probably inevitable that the superstar treatment exists and is unofficially sanctioned.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 8, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
So, doesn't make it right
or smart.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 8, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions

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