And Now For Something Completely Different: Tyson Chandler?
Amare Porn Week has ended, and (since Sacramento has been mentioned in zero Suns rumors outside of, um, Sacramento) I'm moving on. Amare is an offensive specimen, a mean scorer who can see his name in lights any night he chooses. Tyson Chandler is ... a different guy.
Chandler's the Grapenuts to Amare's Rice Krispies. One snaps and crackles and pops all over the arena, while the other beats the hell out of your jaw and makes you want to stop. Stoudemire keeps the scorecard wet; Chandler prevents said scorecard from taking ink. At his best, a defensive Master, an eternal top rebounder and ultra-quick interior defender. He's anchored one of the league's best defenses since 2004-05, despite cleaning up Eddy Curry's messes and covering for a less than (defensively) stout David West. I wrote this last September when I placed Chandler No. 40 on my NBA Top 50:
If you were building a team next year, with the entire player base as your oyster, and you wanted an elite defensive-minded center, there's only one guy you'd take over Chandler. (That guy happens to be a four-time NBA champion, and a former MVP.) Nice company, especially considering interior defense is at such a premium in the slashing NBA.
I'm referring to Tim Duncan there, and rest assured that there are no more Tim Duncans. The amazing thing about Big Fun(damental) is that he's one of the best post defenders the game's ever seen ... and he can drop 20 a night, 35 when he feels pretty. Chandler can't drop 20 a night -- heck, Chandler can't even drop 20 when he feels pretty. But he can defend his ass off.
And post defense is pretty damn necessary these days. Look close to home (but not at Brad Miller). How many guards or small forwards have legitimately been able to stop Kevin Martin the past season-and-a-half? ("Reggie Theus" is not an acceptable answer.) Few, if any. What hurts Martin? A backstop. Every once in a while, the Kings will come up against a team with a good defensive center ... and Martin will get his lunch returned a few times. And it discourages the drive, and that hurts his game, and that hurts the offense. (Erick Dampier and Shaq are the first to come to mind over the past month.)
Needless to say, we do not have anything close to this sort of defender.
Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson have development ahead, but both appear (at this point) to be more offensive beings (ballbusters that they may be) than All-Defense nominees. Chandler is an All-Defense type defender. On the right team, with the right season, he could win a DPOY and not a soul would blink.
Chandler is the same age as Amare (and Martin, for what it's worth), and his contract extends through 2010-11. Yes, that ... it does eat into 2011 salary, and that prospective 2010 (or 2009) cap space. Chandler will be paid $12.3 million 2009-10, and owns a player option for $13.2 million in 2010-11.
But that's just price. What's Chandler's price? This is where the advantages over the nebulous Amare plans show themselves. Read that last sentence as: keep your Thompson, your Hawes, your draft pick. John Reid of the New Orleans Times-Picayune:
Chandler will make $11.8 million next season, and when that's combined with the $14.2 million that Peja Stojakovic will earn along with the first year of Chris Paul's three-year extension kicking in ($13.7 million) and David West's $9 million, the Hornets' payroll for next season is already projected to be at $76 million.
That would put them over the luxury tax threshold, which is estimated to be set between $72 million to $73 million for the 2009-10 season. The tax kicks in at $71.1 million this season -- the Hornets' combined current payroll is $67.8 million. Regardless if they have a successful playoff run, the Hornets are likely to trim their payroll to avoid having to pay the luxury tax, which is $1 for every dollar above the tax.
Later in Reid's story:
This summer is more likely when the Hornets would try to move one of the core players in a major trade.
With the Western standings in current form, it would seem more likely that the Hornets would wait until the summer to mess with the core. However, there's a giant risk in that: if no one has cap space, no one will be able to pull a Camby with N.O. and take back one of those salaries for nothing. A few teams should have cap space, but you'd be depending on one of the them to want one of your pieces. And no rebuilding team (those are the only ones with cap space these days) is going to want Peja Stojakovic, Morris Peterson or James Posey.
Right now, before the deadline, you can trade for something that turns into nothing: expiring contracts. And oh, what do we have over here ...
CHANDLER FOR JOHN SALMONS, MIKKI MOORE AND BOBBY BROWN
N.O. loved Brown in the summer league; Sacramento offered B.B. a guaranteed contract, and Chris Paul seemed heartbroken. Not only is Salmons a great scorer, he can create -- he can be, for all intents and purpose, Paul's back-up (even if he starts). Mikki Moore is better than Hilton Armstrong; also, the last time Moore played with an ultra-creative point guard, he ended up with an $18 million contract. Given Moore's buy-out, the Hornets would save $5 million in 2009-10, sliding them under the luxury tax.
Would New Orleans agree to such a deal? On the one hand, Chandler's the best player in the swap by a healthy margin. He was an integral part of N.O.'s success last season, as the negative impact of his injuries have shown this season. Moore is a big downgrade, assuming Chandler would get healthy at some point this season.
But money is a powerful actor. Again: Camby. Shaq. Marion. Amare. Some teams can't justify the luxury tax, and the Hornets seem to be one of them. George Shinn hasn't exactly developed a reputation as a basketball pragmatist; he isn't afraid to spend (see: Chandler, Peja), but he's also bolted one city because of a bad lease and tried to bolt another because of a devastating hurricane. If he doesn't want to pay the tax, I imagine Jeff Bower will understand he really doesn't want to pay the tax. And maybe this is the only deal that gets it done while keeping N.O. competitive (or better) this season. The other rumors -- Shawn Marion, Rasheed Wallace -- don't address the serious need for more supplementary offensive help. (Wallace might actually be a good fit, but the same problems with supplementary offense would rear up next year.)
(I also came up with another bizarre deal for Chandler -- Chandler, Morris Peterson, Julian Wright, Ryan Bowen for Moore, Salmons, Shelden Williams, Quincy Douby and Bobby Brown -- but I'm not sure how I feel about taking on Pete's unruly contract just to get Wright and Chandler. Tyson + Morris = the equivalent of a max contract in 2011. Hrm...)
Thoughts?
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70 comments
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Comments
Oof, that's long.
Apologies.
Two more thoughts:
- If the Kings end up flipping Miller and/or Thomas for an expiring in the next few weeks, this deal could get done this summer — Chandler for Salmons, or something like that. But if Sacramento put the above (sane) deal on the table, N.O. would be risking a lot going into the summer with the obligations as they are.
- I’d be perfectly happy with a smaller deal for Salmons or Moore or Williams and Wright involved. It wouldn’t be easy, but little in this sick, sad world is.
by Ziller on Feb 9, 2009 3:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh gee how dare you ever post something long
Wouldn’t want you to join every other blogger out there. :P
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ain't nothing compared to T Kyle King or Clipper Steve (among others)
And I mean nuthin. And that was short compared to the Amare rant I almost published this morning.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please post said Amare rant
por favor…and um, pronto?
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Feb 9, 2009 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Won't happen tonight
Sorry.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what she said!
(I know we have a ban on that, but come on, look at that statement…)
And I'm like one of the most ghetto-ist guys in the NBA. - Ron Artest
by Kingsfan banished to AZ on Feb 9, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But occasionally
someone has to write longer posts then Pookey. It’s probably a good idea that it’s the owner of the site, too.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Feb 9, 2009 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference bein
It’s not nearly as confusing or difficult to read. It took me 4 41/2 mins to read that blurb. It takes me 15-20 mins to read my own stuff. After the fact. (That folks, is the difference between quality writing, and crap.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I’m liked on StR. Ziller is liked by practically anyone who reads his stuff. This isn’t me being a sarcastic jerk. It’s just a nod to the time and effort that TZ has put in over the last nearly 4 years now.
Not to belabor the point anymore, but name 3 better sources of Kings info today than Ziller, Amick or Joe Maloof?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 7:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is also partly why he was in the Free Darko book too
He notices stuff that practically no one else does. Smart thoughtful people. Makes me wonder exactly how much time he spent as a kid around coaches. (Seriously)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 7:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chandler vs. Thabeet
One is a proven NBA low post defensive presence, the other is a 3rd year collegiate prospect, albeit an intriguing one.
No one is saying that we don’t need low post help. Chandler is an answer, while Thabeet is a whole new set of questions. And I’m not saying that I wouldn’t take Thabeet (though at this point I would take at least Griffin or Rubio first), but right now, he is (at best) Tyson Chandler of three or four years ago.
It’s two different conversations.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 10, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't have to me that
I don’t have to tell you that. Your point about what’s valuable in NBA talent vs draft talent are 2 different conversations, is exactly the point I’ve been making. Thank You.
For crying out loud, and I don’t mean this as offensive as it may come across, but you’re old enough to remember Skywalker sniffing lines. It lends towards a lifetime of perspective I wish I had.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how I managed to do this
I was responding to LTTG’s “Now you agree that we need a low post presence” comment.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Feb 10, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well perfect time to bust out a David Thompson reference, and that's there a huge difference between Chandler/Thabeet
How dare you not be perfect? I’m going to tell Jesus on you.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned last week
That both an Amare deal and a Chandler deal were possible – extremely difficult – but possible.
I raise you Bjax, SW, Donte (+ trade exception) and a pick, the first next yr or Houston’s this year, for Amare.
(you switch Hawes for Bobbyb maybe if both deals are simultaineous and send Donte’ to PHX)
[Hell, something like that – I hate the trade machine]
Ahhh, one can dream….
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 4:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Now onto the meat of the argument
Amare vs Chandler. Amare has an opt out in 2010. Oh wait, we’re not entertaining this crikeyness anymore. It’s just about Tyson Chandler isn’t it?
Hmmm, this is an interesting question. I like Tyson Chandler myself in the realm that he is the kind of defender the Kings need, which would of course increase the need for a PG in the 2009 draft. Chandler isn’t just a good offensive rebounder; he’s ridiculously insane. He can block shots/ play post defense/rebound at a high clip.
My question is this: Isn’t there a way New Orleans couldn’t just deal a fringe player to get away from the tax? Antonio Daniels, Julian Wright for instance? I think that this is the type of deal that New Orleans could afford to wait on for a lot of reasons:
- They have nobody who is performing well defensively and on the same level as Chandler
- Where does Salmons fit long term for them?
- If they aren’t getting contractual relief (like taking on MoPete), than what are they getting?
- I get it, but I think that’s a steal provided Chandler doesn’t get on the court the next 2 seasons at all (but if he’s on the court for 60 games and reasonably healthy, then you have to believe New Orleans loses big times on this type of deal)
- This isn’t Utah with a Millsap/Boozer situation where you also have defensive players surrounding Millsap like AK47
I would love to do the deal as you say, because it helps the Kings in myriad ways. It takes them out of the hunt for the 2010 FA class (not a bad thing), and it could drive interest up in the Kings this season for fans. It would also, conceivably, help the defense in the short term provided the Kings didn’t have Brad Miller also on the court.
Unless the Hornets could get a replacement for Chandler in the defensive value he brings, it’s hard to imagine they won’t look around for other stuff, as Reid mentions in his post. I would like this deal personally; I have a hard time seeing New Orleans doing it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 4:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
The needs for a defensive big has always been my top priority.
by nothingbutnet on Feb 9, 2009 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh - NOW we need a low post presence
I see,
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not be snarky about the obvious
This team needs a lot of things.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fine
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 10, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You wanna really go there? Do you?
I don’t really think you’re going to win this one just because I think Hasheem Thabeet is not a wise choice of a top 3 pick. Call me crazy.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tired jokes aside..
I am all for a deal for chandler, even though he may be slightly overpaid. Really for an above average center you have to overpay, especially in a small market. The question is do we still target chandler if we have to include hawes (yes), JT (no), or if we get the #1 pick and rubio is not in the draft. Wouldn’t selecting griffin, who would be much cheaper, and then playing JT at the 4/5 be a better option if Griffin’s rebound rate translates to the pros. I guess the big issue would be the bynums, howards, and odens of the league towering over our (thin) 6’10 center.
And I'm like one of the most ghetto-ist guys in the NBA. - Ron Artest
by Kingsfan banished to AZ on Feb 9, 2009 4:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
NewOrl
might be fine with hawes + expiring. They are a small market as well and 6 mil over the lux cap # (before draft picks) = $12 mil in tax money
Ouch, and as has been said, they are a playoff team – but a contender? I think not.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
would you deal our #1?
isn’t that the only way to get a deal done with NO? They are committed to three high priced players and the only way for them to rebalance is to start inserting some low salary youngsters. So we’d package up the necessary expirings (Bjax, Shelden, Mikki) as needed with our number one… Essentially trading the known for the unknown… I think I’d do it.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Feb 9, 2009 4:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not for Chandler
maaaaaybe for Amare
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
id protect our pick to no. 3
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Feb 9, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even for Amare?
or just on the Chandler idea?
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tough decision
If it was for the trade you offered, then yes. I wouldn’t give up Spence or JT for Chandler though.
by Aykis16 on Feb 9, 2009 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
gotta use that reply button Ayk
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
never mind
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my problem with TZs proposal
is that it doesn’t give NO back a center that they can stay under the tax with next yr.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 4:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Are you a Kings fan or a NO fan?
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Feb 9, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just thinking from thier perspective....
They’ll want a Center back, forwards they got crap-loads of.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Chandler but...
he is a very limited player. If the Kings can land him in exchange for Salmons and expiring then I think I would go for it but this is a guy who even with one of the most amazing assist men in the can barely hit double figures in scoring. Chandler only scores via the ally-oop or on rebound/putbacks- that’s it, no face-up, no back to the basket. He has a history of back injuries and although he is a great defender, he is only a slightly above average shot blocker for a defensive specialist. If the Kings were loaded with star caliber offensive weapons and they needed a dirty work guy then this is him, but the Kings are a long way away from Chandler fixing their issues.
Now….if Chandler is one of two or three big moves made right now then maybe my opinion changes.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Feb 9, 2009 5:30 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Yeah the problem I have with getting Chandler is
Can the Hornets afford to give him up for swingmen and less effective bigs (like Moore)?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't solve thier tax issue if they kept Mikki next yr was my point
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why they'd buy Mikki out
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and then they wouldn't have a Center
I think they want a cheaper one – not none (I know, Hilton Armstrong – but really?)
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We can package this deal with Hawes
And use our 1st rounder on a PG and Houston’s Pick for a back-up Center
by nothingbutnet on Feb 9, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
So the deal is Chandler for Salmons + filler and our chance at the 2010 FA crop? I love Chandler, I wanted us to get him 2 years ago, but he’s not going to take us anywhere without at least one major star + a better supporting cast + a real PG.
by discocricket on Feb 9, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we could do the trade you propose I'm all for it
His contract worries me a bit but then again, it’s not THAT bad. I’ll rather overpay by a couple million than pay max money to a player that doesn’t deserve it. I agree with the comment that sometimes you have to overpay for a big man and he brings a lot of what this team needs. If it doesn’t work we could always ship him out in a couple years as a big expiring, right?
"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops
by eduardo_m7 on Feb 9, 2009 7:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There's only 2 years left on Chandler's contract
This season, and a player option for his 2010-11 season. I don’t really think long term this is a bad trade for the Kings if they do it the way TZ proposed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way; for $12M/yr would you rather have BMiller for two years or Chandler for three years
by betweentheeyes on Feb 9, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in TZ speak (man, that guy is a metaphoric gourmet)
Brad Miller is oatmeal to Chandler’s grapenuts
by betweentheeyes on Feb 9, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was lazy and didn't look at the years and now it looks even better
We are not giving up Kevin, JT, Hawes, Greene, or Cisco, plus we get the defensive presence we’ve always lacked in the middle. Say we do this, and draft Rubio (big IF) our lineup next year could be Rubio, Martin, (Cisco?), JT, Chandler. Is that a playoff lineup?? I think yes. Also if you were to add up the contract numbers we should still have room to get a couple nice players. I know ths is just speculation and wishful thinking (especially with what I’m writing here) but it looks like we are moving in the right direction one way or another.
Can’t wait for the dominoes to start falling. I’m really excited for the next 10 days.
"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops
by eduardo_m7 on Feb 9, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah ed
It’s an interesting time. The moves the Kings make says more about the Maloof’s financial interests though, than anything at this point.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Having the extra space for more significant salary
is the kicker for me. Do we after this deal?
by discocricket on Feb 9, 2009 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean by that?
What does extra space for more significant salary mean?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It means
I’m trying to post while half listening in class. I mean space to sign players earning more than the MLE, the 8-10 million dollar player.
by discocricket on Feb 9, 2009 8:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
The answer would be no. But Tyson Chandler is also in that range of player you would be referring to, though. Kevin Martin is also in that range of money as well. So, in a way, I don’t think what you mentioned about acquiring a player like that through Free Agency (or a summer trade) would do much.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So then rolling with
Chandler, Martin, Thompson, Hawes, Garcia, Beno, Greene, + any vet salary + draft picks we’re at the cap or tax until 2011, when we free up significant money? I like it better than now, I’ll tell you that much.
by discocricket on Feb 9, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There isn't a lot of point in taking Chandler if you can't dump Miller
I’ll say that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 9, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
truth there
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 9, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we turn around and deal Brad (with K-9)
for an expiring we should still have some room. Remember Bobby J, Shelden, and Douby all expire this year. Plus you are getting rid of Mikki, Salmons, and Bobby B with this deal.
Say all of that happens we only have Martin, Cisco, JT, Hawes, Chandler, Greene and Beno under contract. I’m also assuming Shareef’s contract is out by then. I could be wrong but that’s about 40 million in contracts…
Hope that’s what you meant
"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops
by eduardo_m7 on Feb 9, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
I personally like the idea of Chandler a lot more than I liked the idea of Amare. That being said, I’m not very smart.
Someone brighter than I am should do a full breakdown of the pros and cons. I will then proceed to get really drunk, read the article, and make my decision that I’ll defend to the death (or sobriety…same difference).
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Feb 9, 2009 7:33 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
not sure
chandler has turned in a couple of good seasons with new orleans, but i am still weary of his multiple seasons of average performance, riddled with injury with chicago before he was traded to the hornets.
by sactoreg on Feb 10, 2009 5:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The deal TZ proposed
would be a great deal for us. I like it so much more than the Amare discussion. But this deal has to be one of many. I love it because we’re getting tremendous value, but it has to be one of several steps.
Chandler’s perfect on defense for us, he’s exactly the right guy (of guys who even might be available).
On offense, I have some concerns. I think Chandler could be fine in the Princeton offense, he’s not the prototypical guy, but he is a finisher. So if he can keep the ball moving, make the basic correct read and finish when someone else makes a good read and pass, I could see it work. I don’t see how you can have a lot of those guys though, so other people on the floor need to be able to make the “creative” read, not just the obvious one.
Enter Spencer & JT. If we go get Chandler, you’re saying these two guys are bright enough and good enough passers to be good facilitators of the offense. They will be the big guys that get the ball and decide what’s going to happen, because Chandler isn’t that guy. Spencer especially can do that, imo, and through no fault of his own the jury is out on JT so far. If we go get Chandler, I’m really wanting to keep Spencer especially.
This has to be one deal of many, because we need a small forward and probably PG to make this work. The small forward needs to be a good shooter, good defender and not a disaster making decisions and passing. That’s out there, I’ve made the case before for Marvin Williams from Atl if he were available. Too bad Luol Deng is playing better, he’d be a good fit also, though expensive.
To clear the deck and open up options for finding the SF and PG we need, the chaff needs to go. Brad Miller especially needs to find a new home in the next 10 days.
I like the concept, hopefully the next 10 days are interesting and we can see some progress in the rebuilding.
by ForThree on Feb 10, 2009 6:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well said 4 3
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 7:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Food for thought
If the Kings got Chandler for TZ’s Salmons package . . . wouldn’t the Miller/K9 for Marion deal be a great chance to make a trial run at Marion as the SF you’re talking about? I’m interested in Marvin Williams but have no idea what his availability is, so let’s just look at Marion for a moment.
The small forward needs to be a good shooter, good defender and not a disaster making decisions and passing.
This sounds a lot like Marion. With Martin & Chandler as the other two main cogs on the team, perhaps Marion would feel like “the guy”, which could prevent minimize his “cancerishness” (yes, I just made that word up . . . but it works). And again, since he has an expiring contract, it would only be a half-season commitment, and would give a much better idea how the team could mesh if given a full season together than just rolling the dice with an actual contract. Plus, it’d be easier to sign a Bird (Rights) in hand.
Second Half Lineup:
Beno, Martin, Marion, JT, Chandler
2nd Unit: B-Jax, Garcia, Greene, Shelden, Hawes
That just leaves us crossing our fingers that (a) Rudio enters the draft, and (b) The Kings get a pick high enough to select him.
Potential Future Lineup:
Rubio, Martin, Marion, JT, Chander
2nd Unit: Beno, Garcia, Greene, Houston #1?, Hawes
by smgmatt on Feb 10, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just realized
You could potentially swap Hawes & JT in the 1st/2nd squad, depending on matching skills.
As 43 suggested, Hawes might be better suited alongside Chander, which would allow JT to anchor the Bench Mob.
by smgmatt on Feb 10, 2009 8:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I, too, like Marvin
I would be more than willing to swap Donte if at some point the franchise doesn’t believe he’s got the work ethic for Marvin. Particularly if you’re looking at a long term solution at the 3. (Marvin is 23. He’s not an old man by any stretch of the imagination.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
by pookeyguru on Feb 10, 2009 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its certainly interesting. That team is at least pretty decent. With a good PG running the show, I hesitate to imagine how much fun we’d have.
You have to like playing PG if your options are Marion and JT filling the lanes, Martin spotting up and Chandler trailing/receiving the alley-oops. :)
Again, with a decent PG, that lineup could be pretty good defensively too.
by ForThree on Feb 10, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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