Ugh, I Ate a Bad Serving of Kings Basketball (Part #54)

This is my beef with Hawes!

He can rebound but does not seem to want to get the ball more than anyone else. I want my frontcourt players to take rebounds from each other they are so hungry for the ball. Defense really ends with rebounding and at the moment the team and Spencer are lackluster at both.

by mayfieldcol on Mar 19, 2009 7:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Noc seemed to light a fire under Hawes initially but...

that lasted like 3 games and now he’s back to his old tricks. Since the trade of Miller, the Kings have allowed Hawes to get comfortable with his role as the only center getting any minutes. Taking minutes from Hawes and giving them to Booth seems counter productive but possibly necessary at this point. Natt has done JT/Hawes a disservice by not allowing Diagu, Simmons and maybe even Booth an opportunity to fight for minutes. Give me a couple of young, athletic bigs, fighting for their NBA futures, kicking, clawing, giving effort to motivate my other young bigs. Or give me a seasoned vet on his last legs who knows the tricks of the trade, who can show these guys how you can play with diminishing skills and still be effective by doing the little things like boxing out, position D and proper rotations. Booth is an old dog but he out played Hawes last night by a long shot.

On this point I also believe that this team has become a group of guys who have a future with the team and then another group who either don’t get to play or who play with their own agenda when the do get minutes.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish

No offense to our friends on the bench. But Diogu doesn’t seem, when on the floor, to be a guy fighting for his NBA career. No idea what it’s like in practice, though his lack of minutes hardly speaks well.

by Ziller on Mar 19, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

For the time he was in the game. He didn’t look like he even cared. He could’ve gotten about 3 rebounds in the time he was on the floor but let someone else get them instead. He didn’t even jump.

by Aykis16 on Mar 19, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but...

haven’t you gone to play hoops at a park and rotated in with a bunch of dudes who knew each other and then you feel like the 6 wheel. Not to mention the guy has to be out of shape sitting around for the last month collecting dust. He could have given a better effort but then the coach and players might have come out in the media and called him selfish like they did the day before with Solomon. My point is this is a team of cool people and uncool people(and for some reason Donté Greene thinks he’s one of the cool people).- Diagu, Simmons, Booth and Solomon are truly being treated as expiring contracts. I don’t think 3 minutes is a proper sample size to judge Diagu, I honestly think that he has Corliss Williamson type ability as a bench post scorer in the right situation. You don’t lead the Pac-10 in scoring twice in college and not have at least some ability.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Diogu waiting for his 'Euro' minutes....

maybe

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 19, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could regurgitate (and thats what it feels like - thanks Kings) yesterday's

comments about pts in the paint, rebounding, and not being done building our front court – but I won’t (oh crap! – I just did! :)
But I did want to say that I like both our young guys. I just don’t think they’re enough. We need to add one more and have them compete and let things shake out as they will.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 19, 2009 8:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Curious

At what point do you stop giving a player a pass because he’s only 20, or only in his second year? In my mind, Spencer is talented enough to produce every time he steps out on the floor, regardless of the opposition or if his shot is off a bit.

Maybe we are still expecting too much, too soon. But no rebounds in 25 minutes for your 7 foot center is a travesty.

Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not allowing natural selection to do its work. You're like the guy that invented the seat belt.

by otis29 on Mar 19, 2009 8:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

The Miller trade was critical to formally pass the torch to Spencer and JT, but they still need some competition for minutes, someone to hold them accountable, to push them to get better. If not a capable backup, then at least the coaching staff. I think SAR was hinting at this when he refused to tell Amick what Shock & Hawes needed to work on the most, then finally said something along the lines of “it’s on them how much they can improve.”

by LPKingsFan on Mar 19, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is SAR the answer or the problem?

Everyone wants to praise SAR as a great up and coming big mans coach but they forget a few very
important things-

1- SAR never won, although he was a high draft pick, he spent a decade in this league on non-playoff teams putting up big empty stats.

2- SAR lost because he was on bad teams but also because he was never a two way player in a similar way that Martin is not a two way player. If you want to teach defense in this league, it might add to your credibility if you practiced what you’re preaching. Did anyone else wonder why Chuck Person, a known offensive only threat, was the guy teaching defense? What exactly does Chuck Person have to teach Ron Artest on defense? Kind of the same with Shareef- what can this guy teach JT and Hawes?

3- SAR is a rookie coach….teaching a rookie and a 20 year old second year player. This follows the string of poor decision made by this franchise in regards to coaching and strategy. For that matter, what good was keeping Miller around to work with these guys when he never played a lick of D either. The Kings took two young, impressionable bigs and matched them with a pot head cry baby and a no defense playing rookie coach and now we wonder why these guys pick up technicals/cry to officials all game, have poor rebound positioning and don’t rotate defensively. It’s our new Hydra- someone make me a poster of Radmonovich dunking on all 4 of these guys.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont really have an opinion on SAR

I was just repeating his comments as they seemed relevant here. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not in the team’s long-term coaching plans, as his shift to the bench was probably a quid pro quo for his agreeing to retire so the team could get some insurance $$.

Vlade for big man coach/European scout!

by LPKingsFan on Mar 19, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

JHam - I have to disagree with some of your points -

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ack, let me elaborate

SAR as a player has little or nothing to do with his coaching abilities. He seems bright, caring and apparently, before last night’s poor showing, was a good teacher – or at least Peter Carril seems to think so.

A bad nights’ outing is not a reason to begin Spencers’ effigy burning. I think you placed your comments because you feel as I do – of the young’uns, Spencer has shown the most upside to reach some regular status as his skills and intelligence are impressive. The one who has to be most disappointed with his performance last night is Spencer Hawes. Let’s give him the chance to rebound from the Charlotte game.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you missed my point...

If you want to teach defense in this league, it might add to your credibility if you practiced what you’re preaching.

Quoting myself is wrong, I know….my point was about having creditability with players, including one that he played with a season ago albeit mostly in practice. You can respect the man all you want but if he didn’t practice what he preaches can you respect him as a coach? I don’t know the answer to that but I certainly would struggle in connecting with the guy and as a fan I wonder if he was a correct choice to teach young players fundamentals that I don’t know if he actually has a grasp on.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's ok to quote yourself

As long as you’re talking to someone else.

If you quote yourself to yourself, that’s a bit odd.

But if you preface it with “Like I always say…” then you’re just annoying. no matter who you’re talking to.

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 20, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He should use the third person

Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not allowing natural selection to do its work. You're like the guy that invented the seat belt.

by otis29 on Mar 20, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think any person deserves to be used, even if that person is only third. ;-)

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 20, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was told it's OK to talk to yourself

It’s when you start answering back that it starts getting dicey.

by hozr on Mar 20, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's exciting to think that even with a weak draft

we’ll be picking up a guy who is the best player on our team

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Mar 19, 2009 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

wow. Just go ahead and ruin my day, why don’t you?

Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'

by iashwash on Mar 19, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Hawes was in this draft

You could make an extremely legitimate case he’d be the #1 pick.

He’s 7ft tall, scores with both hands around the rim, is a young but gifted passer, is a lot better shot blocker than anyone thought he’d be, is mobile and is a good 3pt shooter. That package is comperable to Griffin, maybe not better, but in the conversation.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 19, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No - its not. No offense but thats a little silly.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 19, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it?

I wouldn’t argue for #1, but top 3? I think so. The year Spencer was drafted he was rated higher than Thabeet, before Thabeet pulled out. So, if Spencer had spent the last two seasons in school and improved. He’d be playing on a very good Washington team and would be a top 5 this season for sure and probably top 3.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 19, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spencer Hawes would make UW an odds on favorite to win the national title

Especially this Spencer Hawes. That’s my opinion; maybe it’s homerism that’s showing. I still believe that though, particularly since Pondexter has gotten much better this season.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

full on agree

the only knock on Spencer Hawes if he was still in school – would be that he was a junior and stil in school.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hawes

will be a better pro than Thabeet.

There, I said it.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 20, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reynolds

said this was his worst game of the year and from what I can remember he’s right. Terrible. Unmotivated. Lethargic. Too bad because he’s been playing pretty well of late. My bet is that he’s pretty good the next game because he’s going to get tore up here and by other media outlets. Young Spencer seems to respond to harsh criticism. He deserves some today. Terrible effort.

Different subject: I know McCants can score and is a pretty amazing athlete, but I still don’t want this guy’s 1 on 1 game on our team. He’s a black hole and if we are going to improve as a team the ball has to move. So, maybe coming off the bench for short bursts but not an intergal piece. His instincts are dribble, dribble, (maybe another dribble between the legs just for good measure) shoot.

No thanks. He starts missing those shots and he’ll wear out his welcome very quickly.

by Kusian on Mar 19, 2009 9:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

On McCants....

I don’t know if you fall into this category but most people here LOVE Bobby Jackson and even in his hey day he was a mad chucker, similar in style to McCants. Jackson used to kill me with fall away off-balance threes with 19 seconds on the shot clock- regardless of whether the ball found the net or not, those are just horrible shots. McCants isn’t the warm personality that Jackson is but he seems to fill a major hole at combo guard when Garcia runs the point.I guess the one thing I see with McCants that I like more than Jackson is that he has a great post game for a guard. He isn’t the rebounder that Jackson was/is but his defense is pretty stellar and a lot of his shots come in the rhythm of the offense.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I didn't

think of BJax as a mad chucker back then because our team was so much better and he seemed to fill a gap. I’ll need to think about that. Good point.

I think that on this particular team we don’t need a black hole – we need a team player that embraces ball movement and that can hit the open J, (which he seems to be able to do thus far.) He just doesn’t feel right for this particular group. But, maybe he can fill that 6th – 7th man role that just comes in guns blazing. He’s certainly a monster athlete with a lot of talent. It might just be a style thing for me.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

by Kusian on Mar 19, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Kings bench lacks punch.

And even if we add a nice starter (Griffin or Rubio), I still see a void in bench scoring that McCants fills nicely. Also, Martin tends to miss 20 games a year and it would be nice to have a starter quality bench guy to go to. Just my opinion.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

McCants

is the second coming of John Salmons on this team.

by hozr on Mar 19, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

except still effective in limited minutes off the bench?

by LPKingsFan on Mar 19, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be the silver lining for sure

by hozr on Mar 19, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

McCants would be great off the bench

game changer – tempo, energy, athletecism, anxious to come in. He is more second coming of BJax, or Bonzi than JSalmons, but they all possess that Vinnie Johnson type scorer’s mentality.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely the worst game of his career

Zero rebounds in 25 minutes for your starting center is inexcusable. Shots don’t drop sometimes but if they don’t at least put in some effort and get some boards. I don’t want to see another effort like that especially since he’s going up against the smaller but driven David Lee.

by rc360 on Mar 19, 2009 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I didn't see the game

Is it possible that Shawes didn’t get any rebounds because the Kings made all of their shots?

by furious.d on Mar 19, 2009 10:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I wish

Gerald Wallace grabbed 7 offensive rebounds, Okafor with 3.

by rc360 on Mar 19, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bobcats completely annhialated us on rebounds

Only guy on our team who rebounded well was JT. He had more than half our rebounds if I remember correctly.

by Aykis16 on Mar 19, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

'Well' is relative

he’s all hustle and effort which I LOVE, but is he one of those guys with a ‘nose for the ball’?

I don’t know. He’s feeling like a somewhat superior A. Varajoa (sp?) so far. A good player, but an All-Star?

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 19, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here we go again

He’s #8 in the league in Offensive Rebound % and his total rebound percent is 15.1 which looks to put him tied for 20th in the league. Not to fucking bad for a rookie, who we would all agree needs to spend some time in the weight room.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 19, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's his impact on the game?

Stat’s can be fun and informational, but they can also be deceiving. Take away the missed tip tries and the rebounds off missed FT, and how many rebounds does JT have?

When the team doesn’t run plays for you, and your only job is to rebound and put back offensive rebounds, you become somewhat one dimentional. I’m not trying to demean his accomplishments or effort, but does he have a major impact on the game?

With Hawes playing out high most of the time, JT is our only big inside. He’s not dominating the glass. He’s not going up and getting the rebound, and going back up with authority. He’s going to have to learn better technique and get stronger, because he’s not going to dominate based on athleticism.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 19, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is where the 20 year "excuse" is relevant

He’s going to have to learn better technique and get stronger, because he’s not going to dominate based on athleticism.

His core strength, his lower body will get stronger as his experience and proven intelligence make him better. IMO, he (Hawes) is still finding his NBA game and NBA body.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was commenting on Kfan's reference to JT, who is 23 in July

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 20, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is proof positive

That JT will in fact need to apply for an AARP card.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Mar 20, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His Roland rating is #4 on the team

for players that have played more than 10% of the minutes. That’s better than Salmons, better than Udrih, better than Miller, better than Moore, better than Hawes, better than Greene, better than Brown.

Right behind Garcia and quite a ways behind Jackson and Martin.

Linky

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 19, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and is on/off court +/- of +7 is the best on the team

for those playing more than 10% of the minutes.

So, yeah he’s one dimensional, has no impact and is basically a bust.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 19, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Numbers are fun aren't they

How’s this, JT gets one defensive rebound for every 6.2 mins played. Using the 24 sec clock as a reference that’s one defensive rebound for every 15.5 posessions. According to 82games.com, he rebounds 10% of his offensive opportunites, and 17% of his defensive chances.

Link:http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAC14.HTM

25% of his scoring comes from tips & dunks. But, more telling is the 119 turnovers. So, What.

He’s a rookie who is clumsy & awkward trying to create his own shot. He’s more than likely to end up on the floor after his shot, then the shot going in the basket. He can dunk when set up by the guards, and he’s more than likely to tip back a offensive rebound, then get control of the rebound and go back up strong. He has his dunks blocked too often. He runs the court and can finish strong. He hasn’t stopped anyone on the defensive end, and according to 82games he’s a -5.4 pts per 48mins.

So, as I said, what’s his overall impact on the teams performance, as compared to the aver. PF in the league? Negligible. What else would you expect from a rookie. I’m not going to get overly enthusiastic just because he’s better than everyone we’ve had for the last 3 yrs.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 20, 2009 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

On/off court net +/- is a rating of impact

his is +7 that means a positive impact. Is he a great player right now? No. Does he show promise? I think so.

The + 7 is a hell of a lot more relevant than some stupid one defensive rebound every 6.2 minutes stat. That can be influenced by opposing team’s shooting percentage and is pretty meaningless as a measure of “impact”.

You think he sucks, fine. You think he’ll never be better than a role player fine. But don’t ask about impact, get shown a stat that measures impact and then try to dismiss it as meaningless because it’s a stat. That’s just lame.

Also, you say JT is minus 5.4 per 48? Well you know what? The team is minus 8.9 per 48 so that means JT has a positive impact. So fucking there.

Look forward to the next player you throw under the bus. This is becoming a regular habit of yours.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 20, 2009 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Douby has a Roland rating of +5.7, so what

All that means is that he’s better than his backup, Duh. You go through an entire web page of numbers and find a couple of good ones to build your case, bravo, you can sit back an gloat.

By the way I never said he sucks, though now that you’ve put the thought in my mind, I guess your right. I do think he’ll end up as a role player. And, I base that on your point, that the team is a -.8.9 and JT is -5.4. Which unless I’m mistaken, means that JT accounts for most of the teams deficit. And, that my friend is not a positive impact. I’ll refuse to swear at this point.

Lastly, pointing out the deficiencies of a player, rookie or not, is not throwing them under the bus. It’s being realistic, instead of always looking at players through rose colored glasses. I didn’t need a web site to tell me JT is our best Offensive rebounder. I was very specific about what I saw, watching the games, and if you didn’t agree that’s fine. I personally would rather have heard your counterpoint on my observations, than to have you quote some lame stat.

By the way, personal attacks have always been a habit of yours.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 20, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please,

do yourself a favor and don’t ever get into a career having to do with statistics.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 20, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where is the personal attack?

There was no personal attack.

You go through an entire web page of numbers and find a couple of good ones to build your case

Are you kidding? Lttg questions JT’s “nose for the ball”, so I quote rebound stats, you ask about impact, so I quote +/- and Roland rating which measure impact. Don’t see how that is cherry-picking stats.

As for the +/-. You’re completely wrong. When JT is on the floor the team is minus 5.4 per 48, so if JT played 48 minutes the team would be minus 5.4. Overall the team is minus 8.9. The minus 8.9 includes the time JT plays and the time he doesn’t. So what that means is when JT is off the floor the team is worse than minus 8.9 to make up for the better +/- when he is on the floor.

You can see it here, on the overall page. When he’s on the floor the team is minus 5.4. When he’s off the floor the team is minus 12.4. That’s where the net +/- of +7 comes from. The team is better when he’s on the floor. That is impact.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 20, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's got nothing to do but rebound.

Spence is still asked to play out high or in the corner to pull his man away from the basket, and to make 3’s. JT can’t make 3’s, and isn’t as good of a passer, so all he’s asked to do is fight for position and crash the boards and run the floor.

If they switched assignments, JT would hardly be noticeable, kind of like Donte.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 19, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They've all got skills

That are unique even at the NBA level. And that’s where I jump off this boat.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

Rec'd

by avishai on Mar 19, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, undoubtedly

And, some day they may play a positive impact on the teams performance.

But, please Pook, don’t go Homer on me. None are having a major impact, that the aver. player in the league at their position, couldn’t provide. Just a few weeks ago everyone wanted to get rid of Gooden because he would take minutes away from JT & Hawes. And, if it weren’t for injuries, Donte wouldn’t see any PT behind Noc & Cisco.

Hawes shows the most promise, but is being used incorrectly. JT is doing exactly what they ask him to do, Offensive rebound. And, Donte makes fair videos.

Just trying to keep it real.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 20, 2009 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

I think JT shows more promise than Hawes.

by mayfieldcol on Mar 20, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't disagree more

But what’s the worth of going round & round?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Mar 20, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally

I think the losing has driven this whole team off the deep end. They’re so sick of it but so used to it that once they get into a rut, its hard for them to get out of it. You can see at times by the way they walk that they think the game is over already and they’re not trying. Its sad. I hope this draft and summer rejuvenates this team because it desperately needs it.

by Aykis16 on Mar 19, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Reading body language is overrated, but you really can look at the players and tell they know they will probably lose. Especially on the road.

by Ziller on Mar 19, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spencer has a recent quote

stating Iparaphrasing) “We are not the worst team in the league”. Saying that out loud has to hurt. An important part of the NBA player is Ego – the current team has a moth bitten ego and confidence.

I will also add – winning cures all ills. If whatever new draft pick or acquistion and Coach have the Kings winning – the malodorous fumes of this years’ team will quickly dissipate.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is where a fiery leader like Rubio would be helpful.

Refocusing the team is especially important as basketball is a game of runs, one team goes on a run than the other and so forth. This team just wilts whenever a run happens in the 4th, you need someone to light a fire under their teammates. I don’t know if this goes under the leadership category or what, but just wanting to compete for the full 48 minutes is a very underrated talent. God how many more games are left this season.

/goes into the corner and cries

There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru

by moproblemz on Mar 19, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In lighter news

CSU Northridge is giving Memphis a run for their money.

by Aykis16 on Mar 19, 2009 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

For the 7 games of March

Hawes: 15.1ppg, 6rpg, 2.6ast, on 51.7% shooting.

His rebound totals are: 7,8,10,4,9,4,0. Yes, 0 rebounds for a game for a center is terrible, 4 is bad and definitely Spencer needs to work on his rebounding; but the angst in this thread is undeserved in my humble opinion.

Otis asked when you stop giving a player a pass because he’s 20…For a rebounder, I’m sorry but he still gets a pass in my book. What you see is inconsistency, that’s to be expected, right? If his 7,8,10,9 games were the norm, we’d be pretty ok with that I would think. Oh, and by the way, the last 4 games rebounding for Spencer in February were 14,5,15 & 11.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 19, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rebounding for the last 10 games:

Hawes: 71, JT: 80. That of course includes last night where JT got 11 and Spencer 0. If you throw out last night and include the game before Hawes has outrebounded JT recently.

Lies, damn lies and statistics, yes I know, and I realize our forest looks like it got sent to termite heaven right now, but our future big guys actually do look pretty good. But we have to be patient with the individual game performances, they’re going to be really inconsistent.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 19, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rebound rate?

and minutes played?

by mayfieldcol on Mar 19, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

basketball-reference.com

or, I just used ESPN for the stats above. I have work to do, I’m not doing all your statistical leg work for you.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 19, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and Kenny Natt's quote above is ridiculous

I’m a contrarian at heart; I love playing devil’s advocate or jumping into threads where the first 20 posts were essentially negative and trying to fight the good fight, but…

Natt’s logic, that a 20yr old NBA player has a specific weakness, and we’re going to cater to it rather than correct it is just stupid. I’ve wanted to defend Natt before, but there’s just no evidence on his side, and at least weekly he says something so abysmally stupid, you just have to shake your head.

The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell

by ForThree on Mar 19, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know, seemed Adelman-esque to me

…like how Rick used to do what he needed to do to set his players up to succeed, rather than to fail. Get the guy some confidence, so that he’ll perform better because you’ve seen that works, then if he is successful that breeds more confidence, etc….

But, bigger picture, yes, “Natman” must go.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Mar 19, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sad

From Hoopinion, via Truehoop, writing about the Kings loss in ATL:

Sympathy to Kevin Martin for playing so well on such a bad team and further sympathy to Sacramento fans who must spend their days waiting for the draft and trying to convince themselves that Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson have a bright future.

Actually, not just sad. Borderline depressing. Does the rest of the league see us trying to convince ourselves that these two guys will be good and just shake their heads in quiet pity?

by twasserm on Mar 19, 2009 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

this is harsh, but I think only 30% true

I think Thomspon and Hawes will ultimately become 70% the borderline All-Stars we are hoping for.

I see an upside of “versatile, consistently effective starter that can be valuable in the right system”. If they were teamed up with a bona fide superstar, they’d be perfectly adequate co-starters.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Mar 19, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really don't understand how anyone can think that JT will not be a double-double player...

the main culprit for JT’s underperformance is his reckless fouls, which can only be described as rookie mistakes. He has made strides in staying on the court as the year has gone on and I really don’t understand how anyone who watches this team thinks that he will just burn out. I think his problems just stem from an unfamiliarity with the league which is a correctable problem. There is no possible way he plays worse next year than this year, and I don’t understand the Hawks arrogance, they have talented players, but are going nowhere as they probably won’t even resign Bibby next year. The Hawks are the original Dead Man Walking Franchise.

There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru

by moproblemz on Mar 19, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We Kings fans are guilty of wanting the vision of the future to come true today

It will take seasons for the fully developed play of young’uns Hawes, Thompson and Greene to emerge. The journey is long and arduous, with potholes galore – but most all agree these guys are on their way. All-Star, Starter, Role Player, Bench warmer – we can argue over.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My feeling is '3rd big man' on a Championship level team

But thats based on what I see as veeery bad footwork and though he has the desire to rebound, I don’t see him as an instinctive, dominating one. Neither of them. As the recent Brad Miller era showed, one of your two bigs has to be an instinctive rebounder for the team to be consistant.
Look, I know its pretty early to judge, these are my impressions right now – After a lot of games/minutes played though. Some weight would – could do them both a lot of good.
I just don’t think we should put all our eggs in one basket.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 19, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, like, Scot Pollard type players?

Hopefully w/ out the injuries?

by avishai on Mar 19, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Instinctive?

I’m not sure that’s necessary to be a dominating rebounder. Certainly, your correct, about the need for improved technique and strength. So, only time will tell for JT.

Watching Spencer in the Bobcats game, it was obvious why he had no offensive rebounds. He was setting up at the top of the key, foul line extended , or for the corner 3 on every offensive posession of the 1st half. For a guy that races down the court and fights for position on the blocks almost every offensive position, it must be assumed that this was by direction of the coach. And, frankly, I would have mailed in my effort too if I was Spencer. On the defensive end, there were so many blown coverages, that Spencer seemed to be running out to the corners or top of the circle, every other posession to contest a 3pt shooter which obviously wasn’t his assignment.

Find a decent guard who can get Hawes the ball when he gets good position, or a pg that can run a decent pick & roll, and Spencer will be great. Defense will come with time and strength, and when the rest of the team learns to play defense, so Spencer doesn’t always have to leave his man because someone else got beat.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 20, 2009 2:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs