Waiting 'til next year, this year

by furious.d on Mar 19, 2009 1:16 PM PDT Comment 39 comments

There are a variety of reasons that this may be a stupid question. Maybe it's been discussed here, maybe its premise is ridiculous. I don't know. So as I have in so many times of desperate confusion, I turn to the internet for answers:

I have no idea if JVG is interested in coaching in the NBA in 2009 (let alone in Sacramento). Logically, it makes sense to me - he's still relatively young, and coaches usually can't stay away. But I'm completely unaware of his personal circumstances.

So why do I bring him up? Well, like others around here I believe that Sacramento's next head coach needs to have an established track record as a success at this level. We have too many "project" players to also have a "project" coach.

Eddie Jordan (who has been advocated for on StR and elsewhere) has the credentials, the Kings connection, and the x-and-o ability to improve any team's offense. I think he's a great candidate.

Still, I wonder if Van Gundy wouldn't be an equally-good or better candidate, and why he hasn't been discussed more on StR. His reputation suggests that he could help give the Kings something that fans have pined for in Sacramento for years: defensive toughness. And his record (career 57.5 and 50 win percentages in the regular season and postseason, respectively) suggests that whatever he does works.

I understand the argument that a coach should play to his personnel's strengths, and teams put together by Petrie tend to be offensive minded. But I also think this group has parallels to teams that Van Gundy has suceeded with in the past (i.e. skilled bigs, scrappy wings, and a pure-scoring guard. The idea of a bunch of offensively-skilled young players versed in Coachie's system, who have Van Gundy's style of hardnosed defense drilled into them excites me.

But when all is said and done, I admit to knowing little about Van Gundy or Jordan specifically and NBA coaching generally, which is why I came to you in the first place. So chew it over while you watch the #1 seeds trounce the #16's and get back to me.

Poll

What available coach would you most like to see on the Kings bench come Opening Day 2009?

Eddie Jordan

52 votes

Jeff Van Gundy

33 votes

Kenny Natt [*snicker]

5 votes

The Field

22 votes

112 votes | Poll has closed

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

1 recs | Comment 39 comments

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Comments

JVG teams are slow paced

and not good enough offensively to win. Imagine a polar opposite to the Kings under Adleman. I do not think he likes the same type of players Geoff Petrie likes either. I voted for Eddie Jordan.

by mayfieldcol on Mar 19, 2009 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I want Flip Saunders

Although he might be too expensive.

by Aykis16 on Mar 19, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

That would be my first choice, too.

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 19, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm leaning towards Flip too

but I don’t know how well he would fit into the whole Princeton offense thing.

by hozr on Mar 19, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Flip! Flip! Flip!

by LPKingsFan on Mar 20, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Flip,

Flop,

and fly!

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 20, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that it was going to be Flip, flop, to the barbershop

and the 3rd pic would have been Mr. Reynolds. You totally got me on that one.

by hozr on Mar 20, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stylin'

Style will be just as important as substance next year to draw the crowds….hopefully we land a coach with both, Jordan seems to qualify as does Flip. Jeffs teams are boring, reminds me of the old Motta teams. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. I was never awake at the end to see who won.

by ElRonToro on Mar 19, 2009 2:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry D

Had to go with Jordan. Although I wouldn’t have been able to have an opinion without that special StR group think mentality.

Honestly, I can’t say that I even knew Jordan was a Princeton offense disciple until the more recent pining from a large base of StRoyalters. Something about Loomis must of kept us isolated from not only the ills of normal society, but NBA coaching theorem as well.

I will say, that I don’t think the Princeton Offense and Great defense are mutually exclusive. If I do recall, adjusted by pace, our glory years produced a top 3 defensive team (once again, StR hearsay, no actual fact-finding to support this claim done by myself). More importantly, as you note, the players need to match the system. We could justify why our players indeed match JVG’s style, or we could just allow Petrie to perform his miracle, and just give him his pseudo-Adelman. It’s a lot easier, and to me, makes the most sense.

AK47, SN13, B52, and K9. One guns, Another runs, He fits, while it licks.

by CAB on Mar 19, 2009 2:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Great pic

and commentary by the way.

AK47, SN13, B52, and K9. One guns, Another runs, He fits, while it licks.

by CAB on Mar 19, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree

Winning fashionably is much more exciting than grinding out wins. If Eddie Jordan can take us to the top of the mountain in greatest-show-on-court style, I will worship him eternally. But to me winning trumps all. I see Van Gundy’s record, compare it to Eddie Jordan’s record, and think maybe there’s something to the cliché that offense wins glory and defense wins championships (yes, I know VG has never won it all).

As I said in the post, I’m honestly not lobbying for Van Gundy, because I have no idea if he’s a better coach or just one who’s had better teams. I simply want this team to get back to winning, by whatever means necessary.

by furious.d on Mar 19, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"offense gets the glory...but defense wins the game"

a classic exchange between dennis rodman and JCVD in “simon sez.” well quoted.

by beevenator on Mar 20, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i meant "double team"

rodman was the bad guy in “simon sez.”

by beevenator on Mar 20, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I remember correctly

Eddie Jordan isn’t exactly the best at developing youth. Is this true?

"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas

by submison on Mar 19, 2009 5:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

that's the big knock on EJordan

The other question is defense but as NBA teams have a mutlitude of assistant coaches this should be addressed.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Depends on who you ask

But, if you ask some of the folks at Bullets Forever, then it was necessary.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Picking a Coach based on what kind of offense you want to see is stupid

Haven’t people got tired of the kIngs giving up 120ppg, yet? Total number of championships won by a team playing the Princeton offense, ZERO. Then lets consider the personel. The Princeton requires movement, ball control, passing, & penetration. This team has the worst assist to turnover ratio in the NBA. Our best player is known for his poor ball handling. We traded away our best penetrator & finisher. And, hasn’t our rebounding been bad enough, that we want to continue to play our only 7 footer at the top of the key or free throw extended. And, you might as well forget about Rubio, because a pure PG is a total waste in the Princeton.

Half of our team next year is going to be under 22. None of our current team has any idea of how to play defense. And, the 2 or 3 rookies that we’ll be adding will probably find defense to be a totally new concept as well. HIRE A COACH THAT CAN TEACH DEFENSE. Let him hire an assistant that knows how to run the offense. Let the kids learn together. The Princeton isn’t the only offense that’s fun to watch. Vlade & Weber are gone, live with it.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Mar 19, 2009 6:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

HT - we all want a winner -

Defense, Offense, hey even the bench all need help at this point. The bias for EJordan, as you know, is his ties to Princeton offense and the guy picking the next coach is Geoff Petrie.

I voted for JVG, but I don’t see him coming here. I think some East Coast defense in the Western Conference is a nice niche for the future Kings to aspire to. But you have to have the personal to make it work.

by betweentheeyes on Mar 19, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phx would have won it all two years ago

if not for some suspensions (IMO)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 19, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Tim Duncan

But I do agree with you there. The Suns were just a really special team; special talents, special chemistry.. They really could have won it all.

"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas

by submison on Mar 19, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

we tried this before..

remember Musselman? He was suppose to make the kings a defensive-minded team and instead they sucked at both ends. So it might be best right now to just outscore the other team, cuz really noone on this current team other than maybe Cisco can defend one-on-one.

one more point, if the knock on Eddie Jordan is his lack of development of the younger players, then we should just keep Coachie, maybe he can turn out a couple more kmarts from their young core.

by supamang08 on Mar 20, 2009 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I'd go

all out Princeton ball, which means offense and defense. From my understanding, the offense was supposed to use more of smarts than athleticism, but much of the Princeton ball in the NBA is offensive only thanks to Rick Adelman who took it and made it more of a fast-break style. However, I think in this case the backbone of Princeton ball is it’s defense, because if you use little energy offensively, you can devote that leftover energy on the defensive end of the ball.

This is the direction I’d go.. I love me a Princeton Offense but if we’re gonna have a shot at winning anything the key is defense, and I believe a full-on Princeton basketball philosophy can get us there.

"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas

by submison on Mar 20, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense is personnel as much as system

It’s no coincidence that our closest team to a title had guys like Keon Clark, JJackson, Pollard, etc.

The problem with the Princeton is that it looks pretty and works great for 3 1/2 quarters, but can get bogged down in crunch time. The Lakers did that. It’s fine running the Princeton all you want, but you still need a player who can step up and be The Man, taking over games in crunch time and carrying the team on his back. We can adopt the Princeton to hide our lack of that player for 82 games and maybe the first and second rounds, but we’re still going to need to find The Man before we get close to the promised land again.

by LPKingsFan on Mar 20, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're telling me the 2003 team was closer to a title than the 2002 team?

If you’re saying that, I say you’re full of horse puckey and hogwash.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 20, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I liked that team better

at the time I really thought it was a better team. Wasn’t that the year Webb got hurt vs the Mavs and we still almost won? That team was better than 02, but not closer to a title by definition.

by mayfieldcol on Mar 20, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now that is very true

But that’s not what LP said. LOL

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Mar 20, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's no doubt in my mind

had Webber’s knee held up, that we would have won in 03. No doubt at all. The team wasn’t psychologically prepared the year before (Christie, etc admitting to being “terrified” in game 7), but after going through the 02 WCF they were ready and eager. The additions of Keon and JJ helped the defense and toughness tremendously.

No, if you want to argue semantics, they weren’t as close to a title, considering the 02 squad was a Dick Bavetta, a few free throws, or a Peja airball away from the glory. But the 02 team was a title contender, while the 03 team was a title winner, perhaps just a balky knee away.

by LPKingsFan on Mar 20, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I concur

They were all business – determined and ready.

(Both teams should have/could have won except except except)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Mar 21, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, what can you do

except travel around the world hoping to find some poor kid wearing a 2002 Kings Western Conference NBA champs t-shirt that the NBA donated to some global charity and buy it off him.

by LPKingsFan on Mar 22, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

coach Thib, anyone?

Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'

by iashwash on Mar 20, 2009 12:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Supposedly Maloof's are scared of assistants.

I might make an exception for Thib.

by mayfieldcol on Mar 20, 2009 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No JVG, no assistants

JVG is a “defensive coach,” true, but I think the NBA has changed since he was last successful. Yes, the dominant big men driven, defensive teams still win it all, but the rules are different. JVG would make this team unwatchable, and for some reason I don’t see him as a great match for a still-developing team.

As for Jordan, he’s my second coach. If he can keep Coachie around, that’s even better. He is an established coach (which is critical at this point, after Muss, Theus and Natt we need some stability and experience) but I worry that it’s mostly been established that his teams don’t play defense and aren’t entirely successful.

Which brings me to Flip. Yes, he’ll be expensive. But if the Maloofs know what’s good for them, the time to penny pinch on coaching is over. They need to just write the check, and leff Geoff do the interviewing. This team is going on four coaches in four years, and that’s a big part of why the rebuild isn’t moving forward full steam ahead. We need some stability, someone to right the ship and man the wheel for the next several years to contention. Flip has done that with Minny. He coached KG, so he knows how to use good big men. He managed the egos of Spree and Casell semi-successfully for a year. Yes, Detroit quit on him, but he’s still far and away the best option out there.

This team desperately needs a shot in the arm. If they’re not picking up a potential superstar in the draft (and, it appears, they likely won’t) then a top-notch coach is a must.

by LPKingsFan on Mar 20, 2009 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Flip out

I would – I am not a Flip fan. His play sets against the Kings back when he had a younger KG and a strong supporting cast were acceptable but not impressive. The playoff drought of Minny and the showing in Detroit are not big positives on the resumé.

Again, IMO, the job is Eddie Jordans’ until otherwise announced. (I also wouldn’t be surprised if Geoff Petrie pulled some European Coach from the Greek League – the guy is unpredictable).

by betweentheeyes on Mar 20, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just going to say this....

Larry Brown?? No way he likes being with the B.Cats, he is D minded, he can hopefully get K-Mart, Shock and Haws, and anyone else we got on the floor to play D, i think we can score 100 a night, but we gota stop them from scoring more than that….

by shadowchicken on Mar 20, 2009 10:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs