CBA & Trade Experts I have a question?

by HighTops on Apr 17, 2009 7:09 PM PDT

Went to ESPN's Trade Machine, and found that it showed the Kings with a Traded Player Exemption for about $3.5M which was some how associated with the Sheldon Williams trade. So, my question is 'how did that come about?'. And, what would be the best way to use it?

Also, after checking with the Coon's CBA site, I see where we have to consider the exemption as part of our salary, so it reduces our cap space for 09. Since it can't be combined with anything as part of a trade, and can't be used for a FA, does anybody have any ideas as to how GP could put it to good use.

The only thing that I could see was to take Songila off Washington hand in exchange for their pick. Far fetched I know, but I can't see how else it would be used.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Renounce

The team can renounce its “traded player exception.” Or it can use it combined with remaining cap space (the $7 million or so, after the top 4 and #23 picks) to trade for a $10-11m player.

by Tom Ziller on Apr 17, 2009 8:53 PM PDT reply actions

I have an idea where the trade exception was created

It came because of the salary difference from Diogu and Michael Ruffin when they were essentially swapped for each other.

And, TZ is totally correct a team can renounce it’s “traded player exception”. I’m not sure the team will since it won’t have cap space to speak of anyway.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2009 9:02 PM PDT reply actions

And

As long as the exception covers Songalia’s WHOLE salary, it can be used that way.

I do caution that I’ve never heard of what TZ is talking about as my perception (as right now) is that you can only use an exception to cover a player’s WHOLE salary, and you can’t combine anything else with it.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Whole salary is how I read it too.

So, we would have to renounce the $3.5M TPE, the $5.8M MLE, & the $2M Bi-Annual Exemption before we could us the $7M cap space. Which would only make sense if we were going to spend the cap space on one player since none of the 3 can be combined.

But we could use the TPE & the MLE to trade for 2 separate players, in exchange for those players team trading us their 1st round draft pick. Correct? And, since they are separate trades, the 125% + 100K trade rule, applies to both. So, we could pick up two players with contracts of $4.3M & $7.2M?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Apr 18, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions

Well ...

If you have cap space, you don’t need to meet the 125% +100K trade requirement. So you can trade the $3.5m trade exception for a $10m player, provided you’re $7m under the cap (after the trade exception is counted).

You aren’t really combining it by defintion, but that’s the easy way to think of it.

by Tom Ziller on Apr 18, 2009 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions

But doesn't the rule of having the whole exception cover the player apply there?

The way Coon’s FAQ explains that is that you have to cover the whole exception on the player. But, I’m also reading Q20 of the FAQ.

We can guess the Kings have roughly 45 million committed in salary. We know the Kings, if they have the 4th pick (In the worst case scenario here), will have 3 million in salary plus 20% (that the Kings will likely do) that every team can give, and that’s 600K—Jason Thompson got that this past season and Donte Greene did not—3.6 million for your first overall pick. Then, you have the 23rd overall pick, and 972.5 K later, you can include the 2nd round pick, you’re talking 440K this past season, and you’re talking about an extra 5 million in players.

Then, you have all the exceptions the Kings have (and they have more than one), and they have 5.19 million in exceptions. I don’t know that you’re right & wrong on this. I wouldn’t believe you are, but everyone makes mistakes.

But, at the same time, after the draft picks, and the trade exceptions, I wonder if the team will have actual cap room. Without releasing those trade exceptions, there is no way they will. If they release all of the trade exceptions, EXCEPT, the one for Shelden Williams, then in fact the Mid Level Exception will come into play if the salary cap dips to 57 million. I don’t doubt that it could drop further.

But, really, how many players out there turn this team around anyway for next season with a new coach?

I do know that I’ll have to believe all of this to see it.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions

Can't combine exemptions & cap space

I used Pookey’s link to Q20 and found this.

The team has the right to choose which of its available exceptions to use to sign a player. However, teams may not combine exceptions, or combine an exception with cap room, in order to sign a player. For example, a team with a $5 million Mid-Level exception and a $2 million in cap room may not combine them to sign a player for $7 million. This is explained more thoroughly in question number 72.

So, combining is out. and I we only have $7M in cap space after draft choice signings, it would be silly to renounce the exemptions unless he wanted a player who would cost somewhere between the MLE and the $7M. By keeping the exemptions we would be allowed to go over the cap limit to get 2 players, one in the MLE range and the other in the TPE range of $3.5M. Of course, if don’t spend that much it makes no difference.

I’m still unsure about the 125% + 100K limit, as it applies to exemptions.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Apr 18, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions

...

We’re talking about a trade, not using the traded player exception to sign a FA … because you can’t do that. I’ll seek clarification on this.

by Tom Ziller on Apr 18, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions

TZ if you could also get a clarification for this I would appreciate it as well

Ask if you have enough exceptions that put you in the range for the Mid Level Exception (as in you have less cap space than the Mid Level exception), can you renounce the trade exceptions to get away from that Mid Level?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions

The ownership group is hemorrhaging money at this point

and still no new Arena deal, and the worst record in the league and no new Head Coach signed.

Do you all believe that the Kings will spend their cap room or pocket the change and just wait it out until a change in climate (wins, Arena, etc)

by betweentheeyes on Apr 18, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't think we'll sign anyone other

than minimum guys to fill out the roster, and what’s more I don’t think we should.

We need one season under a good coach and a year of seasoning for Shock, Hawes, Dé3 and Rookie studs A, B and C, before we spend some money on a FA to take us to the next level, or fill in the final hole/holes should our youngins progress like we hope.

Signing a FA now will do nothing but hurt our ‘10 draft pick and retard the growth of our youngins. We are not 1 FA signing away from contending or from the playoffs. So, if it were up to me I’d wait.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 18, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions

do you consider Like Diogue a FA?

or a minimum guy? or both?

by betweentheeyes on Apr 18, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Can we sign him for the minimum?

I doubt it, and thus don’t think we should. Though, I would go 2 year 5 million for him. That’s above minimum, but would be worth it imo.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 18, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions

KiK

Unless theres a real opportunity laying there – something that would fill seats. Then I think they’d go for it.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 19, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions

are there any of those

this year in our price range?

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 19, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Check out this list

2009 FAs

Not much there that we could afford, that would fill seats. And with the economy the way it is, I expect most of the ETO guys to not opt out.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 19, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Talking about a trade

in this economy it May come up.

Just a possibilty, nothing in my mind specifically. We are now under the cap though.
(note: I would not want to do it unless it was a no-brainer but a bird in the hand is better than 2010 in the . . .?)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 19, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions

I was talking about FAs

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 19, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions

There maybe a chance to steal a FA

Less likely

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 19, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions

We might steal a guy that last yr would have gotten the MLE

and get him for 2 mil or something short term

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 19, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions

I'll be surprised if the team does anything

that increases salary.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 19, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions

They'll have to increase salary some Kfan

Otherwise they have no choice but to play the season with 11 players. Can’t do that yanno?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 19, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions

You have to follow the thread

I don’t think we’ll sign anyone other than minimum guys to fill out the roster…

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 20, 2009 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions

I was being flip

I saw that.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 20, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Would you sign Sessions for the MLE?

Or, would you take on $5M in short term bad contracts to move up in the draft?

There’s a saying in business. You’ve got to spend money to make money. And, in the case of the Maloofs, they need to fill seats and increase interest in the team. I don’t think there going to want to go into Luxury Tax territory. But, if you have a team salary of $50M, what’s MLE money 10% more.

But, they could always wait and hope the players we draft do the job. Worst case, they have K9’s contract as a bargaining chip at the trade deadline.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Apr 19, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions

I wouldn't spend the MLE this year.

We need very good players, not more average players. Maybe Sessions is one of those guys, if he is I’d be surprised if we could get him for Beno money.

As for the Maloofs, 10% more when they’re flying Southwest may be more than they want to spend.

Regarding filling seats, a Griffin or a Rubio will do that a hell of a lot better than a guy like Sessions, that most of the regular fans out there have never heard of.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 20, 2009 6:09 AM PDT up reply actions