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Kevin Martin and the Small Foward Position

Kevin Martin has most generally been deemed a shooting gaurd by this community and most other notable NBA types, but does he have the potential to be a great small foward?

The statistics say yes. Speed Racer shot better, rebounded much better, passed the ball better, drew more fouls on his defender, and thouroughly outplayed his counterpart.  

His speed and quickness causes headaches for slower stronger players and his rebounding numbers show he isn't that much of a pushover in that area either, considering his matchup averaged less rebounds per 48 min than himself.

Although these statistics might be skewed, they seem to show that playing Speed Racer at the Small Foward Position holds merit and that it is something worth pondering for the incumbent coach.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Hmmm where do I start with this

First, it’s not stupid, and I was curious to see where this went. Can Martin “play” @ SF? He can in certain matchup’s. But can he over the course of a full game and a full season? No, and there are multiple reasons for this. A, he’s pretty skinny, B his quickness is a problem for SG’s too, C he can defend PG’s if he ever doesn’t have ankle issue’s all the time, and D, the team needs him more at SG than they do at SF.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree with Pookey's Points

I was hoping for a more thorough analysis, because it could be an interesting subject. But again, his natural position is the Shooting Guard. If he’s at Small Forward, we’re playing small ball, which I abhor.

by Aykis16 on Apr 21, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't like to go at this level of analysis

Because I don’t consider it worth it, and I don’t feel like doing it is the other reason. (With me, lazy is always a predominant reason. I make Benoit Benjamin jealous when it comes to lazy.)

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

In suckitude or laziness?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Martin at SF

An interesting concept until you consider that players such as Artest are also SFs. Imagine Martin trying to do his thing while being mugged by Ron-Ron. Not pretty.

And, as P-double-oh-k pointed out, Martin is needed more at SG than SF. We have Garcia, Greene and Noc at Sf already. At SG, we have…well, Kevin Martin.

"Yeah, totally! Totes Magotes! Cool."

by PhutureKings on Apr 21, 2009 11:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks for the feedback.

Sorry for the short post (new to this). The splits caught my eye and I decided to point all of you in that direction. Since my basketball knowledge probably lacks the depth necessary to analyse the situation more thoroughly I thought I would leave that to the patrons of sactownroyalty…the most knowledgeable Kings fans to ever exist.

Hope

by Ultrakingsfan on Apr 21, 2009 11:48 AM PDT reply actions  

Look at it this way Ultra

The best way to think of a fanpost is a more detailed thought out post that describes a lot of things. This would have been better served as a fanshot describing an anecdotal idea that the Kings could be better off served with Martin. The problem is, that most new readers don’t really understand the difference between fanshots and fanposts.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ultrakingsfan it's hard to post especially the first time, I know I'm not good at it

I also was expecting a deeper level of analysis with the subject than you introduced. It’s possible that Kevin “could” play center though I’m not sure he would survive the game. Kevin’s speed allows him to guard other 2’s or switch over to pick up the opponent’s 1 if that creates better mismatches. As Pookeyguru mentioned above, if Kevin switches to guarding the opponents 3 he is going to give up a lot weight and possibly height as well. He has a very slight build and gets knocked around enough taking the ball to the hoop where he is often going to run into the opponents front court in the paint.

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Apr 21, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see the same numbers

On the production scale, Martin at SG is a +9.1 and a +7.8 at SF. And he played only minor minutes at SF (4% of all available).

Further, in large part the difference between SFs and SGs is just semantics. With the right point guard, and if the center and power forwards were excellent rebounders, you could play two SGs. (With Salmons and Martin, that’s basically what the Kings did. They lacked the right point guard and good frontcourt rebounding.)

by Ziller on Apr 21, 2009 12:05 PM PDT reply actions  

This is one of the weird things about basketball. we’re told there are 5 positions, PG,SG,SF,PF, and C, but they are only names that exist as a means for us to generalize what a player is supposed to play like on the Offensive end. Really it seems you could simplify it further saying you’ve got a PG, 2 wing players who generally have similar skillsets, and then 2 power players who play closer to the basket.

The point being, it doesn’t matter what position you say Kevin is playing, you’re still gonna run the same plays and put him in the same position to succeed with his skillset.

Positions don’t really exist on the defensive end, teams handle defensive assignments the same way we all do in a pickup game, you look around and size up your opponent, assigning coverage to whomever can do the best job, maximizing any advantageous matchups you can.

I wanted to adopt, but all the good looking babies were taken

by joeytothelimit on Apr 21, 2009 12:38 PM PDT reply actions  

For evidence,

look no further than Golden State…prime example. Even worked in the playoffs last year

by CDinSD on Apr 22, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, if we go back to the 07-08 stats...

By the same standards of measure, Martin’s best position is actually…point guard!

Obviously, we play him at the 1, Garcia at the 2, Noc stays at 3…our PG problems solved. W00t! Why needs Ricky Rubio? :P

(The serious response: that was an interesting observation, Ultrakingsfan; thanks for pointing it out. I’m inclined to think that the statistics (in terms of minutes played at the position) are too small for us to draw any meaningful conclusion.)

by hungrydog on Apr 21, 2009 1:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Hungrydog...

The new resident mathematician?

"Yeah, totally! Totes Magotes! Cool."

by PhutureKings on Apr 21, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seems like a reasonable explanation

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

My initial reaction would be no...

For a couple of reasons. One, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Secondly, TZ makes a great point – if we had Duncan and Robinson up front, rebounding wouldn’t be an issue. But we need a willing rebounder at the 3, and while Martin isn’t awful for a guard, he isn’t one to go sticking his nose in with the tall timber needlessly. Lastly, with his injury history, more banging for Martin is probably a bad thing. Just get the man’s ankle healthy and let him rip…

by Mcamp49 on Apr 21, 2009 1:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Donte avg'd 7.2 boards in 36 mins @ cuse

I know he played PF there, but still, he could be that guy. One reason I’ve been high on him. I need to write more on this soon before this point gets lost in the shuffle of the should we pick Rubio/Griffin hyperbole that’s bound to come out after the lottery.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lots of things I hated this year

Donte doesn’t fall in a like or hate column.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what I think.

Is 7.2 rebounds per 36 minutes for a power forward in the Big East Conference a positive?

by left hand on Apr 22, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not perfect no

And, why do you think he slipped to 28th overall?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 22, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure what I think

is that his rebounding and overall understanding of the game left a lot to be desired. Yep. That’s what I think. I’m sure.

by left hand on Apr 22, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

You sure yet?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 22, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Play the smallest position you can defend.

Actually, that gem came from one of the other regulars, in a discussion about playing Donte at the 3 or 4. Sorry, but I cant remember who to give proper credit.

In most cases, Martin is quick enough to score on Bigger SF’s. But, bigger sf’s will be able to shoot over Martin or post him up. So, you might not even win the scoring advantage especially with guys like Artest or Durant.

A health Martin, is big & quick enough to go after most SG’s, both offensively & defensively.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Apr 21, 2009 1:47 PM PDT reply actions  

sounds like something I would say

maybe here.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 21, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I forgot about that

Good discussion that was. Man, September seems like such a long time ago.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Apr 21, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Loooooong ago

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Apr 25, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Defense

The biggest issue with this idea has nothing to do with what Martin can or can’t do with the ball in his hands or rebounding. The issue is in the players that he would have to guard. Martin is exceedingly skinny, and doesn’t have a frame that will hold much more weight. Look around the league at small forwards, and think about how he would fair when other teams inevitably take advantage of our small SF by posting him up over and over. They’re all bigger than he is, so you’d have two frequent outcomes; the guy scores, or Martin gets double team help, freeing up somebody else for an open shot. Martin can’t play SF for an extended period.

by rory_sayer on Apr 21, 2009 4:09 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Posting and being posted

seem like the biggest down-sides. I tend to think you want Martin free-flowing as much as possible on offense and in the passing lanes on defense. Knowing as little as I do, I tend to think that best fits the 2.

by left hand on Apr 22, 2009 5:41 PM PDT reply actions  

free flowin and free throwin

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Apr 22, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

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