Breakin' it Down
by Exhibit G on Apr 8, 2009 2:07 PM PDT
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PrintLoyal Readers of StR, I submit to you the following post for your consideration. I apologize in advance.
We're going to break this down in my best impression of pookeyguru, although not quite as long (that's what she said?). This post is a conglomeration of ideas and ruminations on the debate that divides us. Rubio or Griffin? Griffin or Rubio? This debate rages on and has torn the digital realm of StR into to factions. Let us first recognize that we will not settle this debate. This will continue on even after the draft has passed. The only three ways this gets settled are 1) if the players we end up drafting becomes the clear-cut best player from this draft, 2) Rubio doesn't declare, or 3) we don't end up with a top 2 pick. Sorry to be the turd in the punchbowl with numbers 2 and 3, but as of right now nothing is certain.
So with that in mind, this post is not meant to be argumentative. I prefer Rubio, so my bias may show through, but I'm trying to break this down as evenly as I can.
And if you're tired of this debate (and frankly, aren't we all?), I'll throw in a picture of some kittens:
The Breakdown
Blake Griffin
What We Know:
What We Don't Know:
Ricky Rubio
What We Know:
What We Don't Know:
So what does it all mean?
Griffin is more of a known quantity here in the U.S. We've been able to see his games. We've watched him play very well in the NCAA. He has questions marks, but he'll be an NBA player for quite some time.
Rubio is less known to us here in the states, but he's been playing at a high level for quite a while already. I think Rubio is more of a hit-or-miss prospect. He might be the second coming of Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. He might be the next Sarunas Jasikevicius. He might end up somewhere in between.
My Opinion
I think Rubio's passing and court vision are desperately needed on this team. Of course, we all know the warnings about drafting for need rather than taking the best player available. But how do you decide the best player available? Is it the player you've seen more of and is a known quantity? If so, Orlando should've drafted Emeka Okafor instead of Dwight Howard. You evaluate players, and determine which player you think is best. I don't envy Geoff Petrie in this draft. It will not be an easy task if he must decide between the two. If both players are evaluated to be of relatively equal ability levels, then why wouldn't we take the player who fills a need?
To borrow a few common comparisons, let's say you know that Rubio will be the next Nash/Kidd/Paul/etc. And let's say you know that Griffin will be the next Malone/Boozer/West/etc. You would decide by need at that point. Unfortunately we cannot be sure what these players will end up as. But if both are unknowns, it's the same as if both were known. You have an opportunity to take a basketball player who plays well. So what do you need?
The Unspoken Wrinkle
There's been much discussion around here about our coaching, and that there are slim chances of Kenny Natt being the head coach next season. Many of us have opined on and pined for Eddie Jordan and his implementation of the Princeton offense. This offense, as we're all aware, is predicated on lots of player movement, lots of ball movement, and versatility.
Is Griffin a good fit? Is Rubio? Obviously we're a long way from discussing a new coach's system and how our draft pick(s) fit in. The team has had 5 coaches in 5 seasons, so maybe we should throw the coach's system out of consideration entirely. But I think we're all hoping that we can get a long-term coach in place. Like, soon.
From what I've seen, Griffin doesn't always move without the ball. He seems to stand around and call for the ball a lot. Tough to say if he would thrive in suffer in a complicated offense. Rubio passing would be a blessing to the Princeton offense, but the concerns about his shooting could be a nightmare. He is supposed to be very good with the pick and roll, though.
Ex G, what the hell does it all mean?
If we're fortunate enough to have the top pick, it's a great problem to have. Nobody ever wants their team to make the "wrong" pick. We must remember that either way we should end up with a good player. Maybe he doesn't end up as a great player, but that's the risk you take with every player.
For me, it comes down to something I've said before and I'll say again. I decided a long time ago that Geoff Petrie is much better at talent evaluation than I am. He knows a lot more about basketball. I don't envy him being in the position to decide who we draft, but I know one thing:
In Geoff We Trust.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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You can't be imitating me Ex G (Since when do I use pictures?)
Great breakdown overall, and the effort expended is high quality. (Getting to be an expectation Ex G.)
I disagree about Jordan myself, as I’d rather go with a retread like Jeff Bzdelik or a newer fresh guy like Mike Budenholzer.
I agree this team will get better with Griffin or Rubio. I disagree that Griffin’s height is a real issue here. Especially when you consider JT & Shawes are C’s who have that height. That’s even more true when you consider that if Griffin is a franchise player you have to take him. You have to.
I think the important point, that you did make, is that this team will get better with it’s pick. But, I think, and this maybe more important since more variable’s are involved, is that the coaching search and the 2 lower picks may have just as much to do with altering this team’s reality as the actual top pick itself.
Great stuff Ex G. My hat’s off to you sir. (And I don’t usually write stuff this good or coherent either. So ha at you comparing this to anything I’ve written. Haha even.)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Franchise
Is Griffin a franchise player? It’s fair to say that he’s likely the best player available, but is he that guy? He doesn’t have to be LeBron, but he ain’t Durant, and I’m not 100% sure he’s JT at this point.
I know we need a point, and that is all I know. Great post, ExG.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Regardless...
Griffin is the consensus best player in the draft. Whether he is “that guy” matters not, because nobody else is better than him right now.
We just have the misfortune of potentially picking in the top-4 of a “weak” draft.
Also, I’ll caution you all to not put the cart before the horse (or, to not perform an inventory of your unborn fowl), as David Stern has yet to fix the draft lottery, err…I mean, the ping pong balls have yet to be selected. Unfortunately, we may be having the who-would-you-rather-draft over Thabeet and Harden.
"It's shyte being Scottish. We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fuckin' Earth. The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic, trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by Wankers -- Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by . . . It's a shyte state of affairs to be in...and all the fresh air in the world won't make any fuckin' difference!"
If Stern WAS fixing the draft lottery
I’d feel good about our chances. Keeping the Kings in Sacramento is one of his pet projects, and adding a Blake Griffin/Ricky Rubio wouldn’t hurt.
But if it was a fix
Then either the Lakers, Knicks, Boston, or Bulls would get Griffin or Rubio, and the Knicks are the only ones out of the playoffs i see us getting pick number 4, its high enough for us to not bitch about fixing but low enough to keep us getting ping pong balls for the next couple years
by shadowchicken on Apr 20, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Griffin's the bird in the hand
But I’ve yet to see Rubio’s bush.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Apr 8, 2009 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
Well put
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I see your veiled
insult about European players being soft(girlie) and it’s still funny.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 8, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
214 wrote this joke two years ago
but he had to wait until Rubio turned 18 to use it.
by furious.d on Apr 8, 2009 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
LOL!
Rubio is European…his bush will most likely be hiding a snake in a turtleneck.
"It's shyte being Scottish. We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fuckin' Earth. The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic, trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by Wankers -- Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by . . . It's a shyte state of affairs to be in...and all the fresh air in the world won't make any fuckin' difference!"
What/ Does he have leprosy?
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Another consideration?
Ricky Rubio is sheer entertainment. Does that count for a lot with a team that is at least a couple of years away anyway? If the question was posed: “Which would I buy a ticket specifically to see?”, it would be Rubio. And couldn’t that lightning in a bottle game energize the rest of the guys on the floor right along with the crowd? Turnovers? Yes. Blocked shots at the rim? Yes. Missed J’s? Yes. Rockin’ arena? Yes.
Do you get to run and gun if you don’t get the rebound? Can you pass on the one and only guy that you KNOW can really do it in the NBA? Couldn’t this team use the angry guy? 6’8" or 6’10"? Stop. If he gets 14-15 rebounds in the Big12 and the NCAA tourney, he gets 10-11 in the NBA with starter minutes.
I almost hope for the #2 pick……………BUT only if Rubio is available. If the Kings pick #4, I watch only soccer from here on out.
Nah if the Kings pick 4th...
They’ll simply pull a bizarro celtics and trade it for a veteran player that has never won anything (we’ll say Nash), and then they’ll trade the good youth for another veteran (say Dirk), then sign a bunch of role players and score 150 points a night. (of course they’d give up 180).
I was right there with you...
until Liverpool lost to freakin’ CHELSEA today!!! oh well, better than MUFC, I guess.
How ’bout those Sounders? We gotta get a MLS team in Sacto!
"It's shyte being Scottish. We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fuckin' Earth. The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic, trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by Wankers -- Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by . . . It's a shyte state of affairs to be in...and all the fresh air in the world won't make any fuckin' difference!"
What seems to be getting lost in the debate...
…is that Griffin will also help ball movement.
I like Ricky as a player, and I think he will help ball movement, and he should be fun to watch. (BTW—I’m OK with either guy as long as we get one.) But people seem to be framing the debate in these terms: BG is great individual player that dunks and rebounds, but RR is the team player. He will help us move the ball, get back to playing a type of basketball that is fun to watch.
But it is important to point out that Blake will help the ball movement, too. He is great with his back to the basket. He can create down low. He will demand a double team. For all the talk about how passing out of the high post is the key to the Princeton offense, I seem to remember Vlade passing out of the low post as being the key to our old offense.
Force the defense to double, kick the ball out, two passes and you have have a wide open three or easy penetration because some poor defender is running as fast as he can to rotate out on the shooter. I can’t remember this type of offensive sequence happening more than 5 times this year (and it used to happen 5 times a quarter).
I love the progress that Shock and Hawes have made (I am especially impressed with the strides that Spence has made lately), but , to date, they have trouble creating down low. They may get there, but currently they just as likely to turn the ball over as they are to score down low, and neither demands a double.
I concur with that sir
with the information available – Okl was weak on the perimeter shooters – as the tournement showed.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 9, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I just hope we have a top-2 pick...
After that, I really can’t say. If we have the first pick, I think we gotta go Griffin. I’m a huge Rubio fan, but the top-selected Euro’s haven’t impressed in quite a while. I know Rubio is good, if not great. But, I’m convinced that Griffin represents the reduced risk, and nobody could fault us for taking him first. The more I think about it, Griffin is the #1 pick. Rubio is a no-brainer at #2, but not #1.
I’ll be happy with either guy, though.
Lastly, I’ll end on a joke:
“Obviously we’re a long way from discussing a new coach’s system…”
Does Whiz not run the Princeton?
"It's shyte being Scottish. We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fuckin' Earth. The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic, trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by Wankers -- Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by . . . It's a shyte state of affairs to be in...and all the fresh air in the world won't make any fuckin' difference!"
Re: Risks
If you think about it, hasn’t Petrie shown that he has a tendency towards taking risks in the draft? He’s done a damn fine job at it too, if you ask me. Over the years we’ve all praised his ability to find high-quality players in not-so-quality spots in the draft and if he gets the top pick I have a hard time believing he’ll screw it up. If he thinks Rubio is worth taking that risk at #1, I’m all for it…And I reserve the right to deny I said any of this if he picks Griffin.
My wish
1 – We secure the #1 pick.
2 – Rubio shows that he’s the real deal during personal workouts and we select him.
2A – Rubio doesn’t impress, and we draft Griffin.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Other than some supposed experts on a couple of internet sites
who says that Rubio is even the best PG in the draft? Isn’t it like comparing apples to oranges, when you compare a Euroleague player to top college players. Without even considering Jennings, I can think of a few college players that might end up having better pro careers than Rubio. Not that Rubio won’t have a good career.
There have numerous discussions here & elsewhere on the internet, about matchups. Whether certain players would have performed better had they been on a different team or in a different system. Would CP3 be the same player in Utah or a better match for Utah than Williams
We’ve done a lot of plus & minus’s comparing Griffin to Rubio. I guess my point is since we don’t even know what type of offense we’ll end up with or if our next coach will adapted the offense to fit the makeup of the players on the team, we don’t even know whether a playmaking PG will fit our needs. Maybe, a shot first pg like Curry would be a better fit.,
Anyone want to bet their life savings that Rubio has the best season of all the first round PG’s drafted? Yea, I know you can’t actually lose so might as well say Yes.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Strange argument
I wouldn’t have made that bet in ‘79 when Magic came out. Although with my life savings at the time, it wasn’t exactly high risk. :)
The rest I agree with – there are a lot of questions about personnel/coaching that will hopefully be answered before draft day, might help us make sense of where the team is heading.
good points
People keep saying this draft is deep in point guards, which should be qualified.
There are lots of players that play PG that will be drafted, but there may be very few NBA quality point guards or there may be a half-dozen. The draft is only deep in point guards if the guys drafted are actually good; which we won’t know for several years.
I hope GP has a vision for this team, and at the time we draft there’s someone he’s excited about as part of that vision, and of course he’s correctly assessing what’s available.
I totally agree that what some guys say on websites or on ESPN is way overblown. They get used because its all we have to go on, but that doesn’t make them authorities.
The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give…Howard Cosell
I wouldn't bet my life savings that he won't be the best.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 9, 2009 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions
More like comparing apples to apples
None of these guys (Griffin included) are NBA proven. You could make the same argument about drafting top H.S. players (when it was possible) vs. top college players. Sometimes it works out (Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan); sometimes it doesn’t (Kwame Brown, Shelden Williams).
But you can be sure that the Kings will not base their decision on the opinions of “supposed experts on a couple of internet sites.” NBA franchises have people whose entire lives are dedicated to evaluating talent in a way that is informed by more than just who had the best stats against the best competition. If they didn’t we’d be having a Blake Griffin/Tyler Hansborough debate.
Hansborough made the comment after that game
that he’d Never played against anyone like Griffin. Thats pretty high praise. Whatever actually happens, most guys want to play well in the NBA – Griffin wants to Dominate.
Can he? Thats another question but – pretty good attitude to start.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 9, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
The assumption
that the NCAA is a better basketball league than the Spanish League is not only erroneous; it’s practically xenophobic at this point.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Recent NBA performances by Euros drafted
seem to bear it out.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 9, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely right
Because there’s never been a college player who became a bust in the NBA.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Major busts
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Apr 9, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Joe Barry was a black guy?
No wonder Al Attles loved him. (Is that really why you love Joe Kleine so much? So you can also mourn Joe Barry Carroll?)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If you saw my wife - you'd know I'm all about option #2
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 9, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
what busts are you referring to?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And how does that make a damn bit of difference when you're talking about the quality of the Spanish league vs the NCAA?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But at this poin lttg
I’m getting to the point where this is all I got for you:
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Clever
devolving into silly personal attacks again – grow up.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 9, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I am fully grown
I don’t live with my mother, and I don’t even spit at old ladies. Liking you is probably against the law; but then again I usually live recklessly.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
That should read disliking you
I’d probably stab myself before I said I liked lttg. (With a butcher knife.)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
get help
seriously
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 9, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Not liking you isn't a crime
It’s just intelligent. Sorry you don’t get it. Peace.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wow me with a list of Star Euros who've been drafted the last five years.
(and leave the 25 yr olds off)
The domestic list of success is 5 times as long.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
It's a bigger pool dopey the joint
It should be 5 times longer.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Actually
That would be an interesting review. I have neither the time or the patience to do it myself, but some adventurous soul should do a statistical comparison:
-Percentage of European stars compared to Euros drafted.
-Percentage of NCAA stars compared to NCAA players drafted
-Percentage of Foreign (non-NCAA, non-European) stars
-Percentage of High School stars (for grins)
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Griffin is not also the consensus pick but he is far ahead of Rubio in almost all the "experts" picks
The unknowns about BG’s game are far less than the unknowns about an Euro player game. If we are going to draft an alien player based on their Olympic experience I say draft Patty Mills with the Rox’s pick.
It’s also looking like RR might stay in Europe for one more year, be done with his buy out and likely be the # 1 pick in the 2010 draft. Who knows? I don’t I’ve just read it on a couple of posts or chats.
Bottom line is we can debate Griffin vs. Rubio until the cows come home (evil cowtown that we are) and pook can bring his considerable skills in on Rubio’s side but until we know what number we’re drafting at it just doesn’t make any difference (and I should ad that what we think won’t have any effect on who GP drafts anyway).
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Truth
Bottom line is we can debate Griffin vs. Rubio until the cows come home (evil cowtown that we are) ~ and I should ad that what we think won’t have any effect on who GP drafts anyway).
but we can bitch and whine if we don’t get our way – and its looking pretty clear that some will no matter what happens.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I can't believe no one's talked about the most obvious point
Look at the wingspan on that white cat! And the size of his paws! Cat is a beast! He’s Purrfect for our team! (I think I went too far with that last one. Oh well, it had to be done).
Also if we draft him we won’t have to worry about our PF falling on his back so much.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Just what we need
One more p*ssy.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Apr 9, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even with Rubio or Griffin, Kings still not enough
Even with a potential elite PG like Rubio, I still think one of our underlying problems is defense under the basket. I hate to go against the grain but I believe a shot blocking center and decent scorer like Hasheem Thabeet will do us better overall rather than just going for another PF or PG. A combination of JT and Hasheem with an average PG in Udrih will do some good. I just think that going for Griffin would be like wasting last year’s pick and would show a less sense of direction for the kings. I know that it’s hard to find another Dwight Howard, but can you imagine how the kings would look if he was with us? That’s what I would be going for.
Counter point
The Kings have Otis Thorpe at power forward, so instead of selecting Karl Malone, they address their need at center by drafting Joe Kleine.
Talent, talent, talent. Assets, assets, assets.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
good point
gotta love the Stockton/Malone combo, my favorite, but the Kobe/Shaq combo won 3 titles (minus factors such as Jordan…eeeek!). I know, we don’t have anything close to that. And yes, I agree, Stockton/Malone would’ve won more.
I hope you didn't just compare
Dwight Howard to Hasheem Thabeet. For your sanity, I hope you didn’t just do that
well if he did, I don't think he meant to
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
A Couple of Things
I just think that going for Griffin would be like wasting last year’s pick and would show a less sense of direction for the kings
No less so, than going after Thabeet would say that Hawes was a wasted pick.
I know that it’s hard to find another Dwight Howard, but can you imagine how the kings would look if he was with us? That’s what I would be going for.
Not that Griffin or Thabeet will be another Howard. But it’s more likely that Griffin will develop an all round game, that can bring some of the things that Howard does, than Thabeet will.
Overall if you can’t have/find that All Star/Hall of Fame dominating big man, the next best thing would be rotation with 3 high quality big men. JT/Hawes/Griffin or JT/Hawes/Thabeet., where ever the PP balls drop the Kings, either scenario has the potential to be exciting … Think Odom/Bynum/Gasol or Weber/Divac/Miller.
thanks
I’m not making a comparison. I just believe Dwight’s the most dominating center in the league and am just simply saying that if we can get an effective big man (doesn’t have to be Hasheem), it would help us a lot. I was just tring to paint a picture with Dwight. I mean seriously, if he (Dwight) was with us, wouldn’t we be way better? He’d make everyone in the squad better or at least look good.
We'd be way better with
CP3, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, TD, KG, Bosh or Deron Williams too though wouldn’t we?
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Let’s not get outta hand. Just giving my opinion, been a kings fan for over 10 yrs now and am just frustrated because the kings have never got respect from the league without a big man. Even in the glory days of the cwebb,vlade,peja,bobby,christy.
How are those players getting out of hand
but Dwight Howard isn’t? If “We’d be way better with Dwight Howard” is a good argument for Thabeet, then wouldn’t “We’d be way better with CP3” be a good argument for Rubio? And "We’d be way better with KG would then be a good argument for Griffin, right?
I guess I’m just having trouble following your logic. Because if it’s “we need a superstar center to get the league’s respect”, I don’t think that player is in this draft, and trying to find that kind of player when he wasn’t there has led to a lot of bad drafts by a lot of bad teams. See Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi etc.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 10, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
One sure way to lose the league's respect
would be to take anyone else if Blake Griffin is available. After #1, an argument can probably be made for at least a handful of guys. But if whoever picks #1 does not pick Griffin, there will be a lot of not respectful conversation about that club for years.
Humbly submitted with this gentle reminder: Play nice. And, Kfan’s logic is unassailable. Ouch! Big word. Need ice cream.
Unless ...
… Griffin is a bust and whomever is picked #1 instead has a HOF career … then that team would be legendary for their genius.
not gonna happen, not ever, ever, ever. That's as likely as the Kings only winning 16 games in a season.
If Griffin was as good last season as he has been this season he would have picked # 1. He was projected to go no lower than 5 until he opted out of the draft.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Griffin was projected top 9 last year.
With more chance of falling. He probably is/was better than Michael Beasley.
by mayfieldcol on Apr 11, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
you're an attorney aren't you?
For some reason people are being a little testy today.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Was my response not Playing nice?
It wasn’t intended to be sarcastic or inflammatory in any way. If it came across that way, I apologize.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 10, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Cyborg you are totally right and I got what you were saying above and your opinion is as valid as anybody elses
it’s just that Dwight’s such an obvious example that you might as well as throw in any Hall of Famer to make your point because of course………….as bad as we are right now, any of them, including Dwight would make us better. Depending on where our draft pick falls there could be a lot of guys (and LPA) here hoping we can land Thabeeeeeeet.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I swear to you that cyborg is not another screen name of mine
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 10, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I would never accuse you of that even if I was Pookey pissed at you
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I don't even think you're cyborg
And I think you’re an idiot.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I did not mean that seriously (the idiot part)
I can tell when someone is commenting. Especially when someone consistently comments as lttg does.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No offense taken
seriously
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
No distinction necessary.
Here on StR, I’m just one of the guys.
Only smarter. And cuter.
Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.
by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 11, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Keep dreaming brotha
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This is Geoff Petrie here guys
and I’m surprised no one has made this point yet: GP almost every year makes picks that surprise us. Don’t assume that if we’re 1 or 2 that it’ll be Griffin or Rubio.
already mentioned
the one predictable factor of Geoff Petrie is his unpredictability. Even if the Kings get the #1 pick it doesn’t mean he will keep that pick either.
The only other question about you, GP, is whether or not you are in charge of decision making anymore. Well, are you??
by betweentheeyes on Apr 12, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
He's not unpredictable
He just has better information than we do. Was anyone here at the personal tryouts with JT. NO! So, sure none of use had the insite on the players that GP picked. Just because he knows the players better than we do, and just because he has a better idea of what he wants for the team then we do, doesn’t make him unpredictable. Oh, in a way I guess it does. Nevermind.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
one of the highlights of every NBA Draft Lottery night
is listening to Hubie, or DCollins, Stuart Scott, and even the great commish David Stern himself mumble and mangle the name of someone that their team of experts could not expect on the board. The video team scrambles to find some scratchy game film and as the announcers talk about how the guy has skills but his defense is questionable. Good times all around.
Geoff Petrie IS unpredictable. Not to himself but surely, to us the ignorant hopeful, the scanners of mocks and insider info, the predictors and prognosticators he is a dubious dude.
by betweentheeyes on Apr 12, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
What is predictable is that he'll come up with someone better than our pick.
But, not picking the best PF or PG in the draft with the 1st pick, would be unpredictable.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
This is fun and everything
but ultimately there’s really nothing to argue here.
Blake Griffin is a man among boys in college hoops and he’s far and away the consensus number 1 overall pick. I’d bet dollars to donuts that there is not a single NBA GM who would dispute that fact.
Whoever gets the # 1 pick (including the Kings) is going to select Blake Griffin. End of story.
Now, if the Kings get the #2 pick they very likely would take Ricky Rubio and personally I think that’d be great. But with all respect to Shock and Hawes, if Blake Griffin were to suit up for Sacramento next year he immediately would become their most talented big man.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
Go to any sports related site, poll your experts, Everybody, has Griffin at #1. He's that much of a standout
You will find some discussion on whether Rubio is the best pg in the draft (if he declares) but will not find any discussion on whether Blake belongs as the top pick in the upcoming draft.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Except I
But, well, I’m an idiot anyway.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Just like last year
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Apr 13, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that the point that Rubio could overtake Griffin?
Or just that he may not be the “consensus” top choice like many are purporting by the time it’s all said & done?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I think these are different situations
Rose was front and center in the NCAA tournament, and his stock rose as the draft approached. I don’t think Rubio’s going to get the same push.
However, if the Kings get the first pick, I wouldn’t be surprised if Petrie took Rubio (or someone else besides Griffin). Still doesn’t change the fact that Griffin is the “consensus” #1.
I would
I’ll bet beers on it.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect
and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Apr 14, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
thanks for all the comments related, it was indeed fun
I have no doubts that Griffin will most likely be #1. I didn’t mean to spark any tension here by posting my original comment and none were taken on behalf. My logic of thinking is this: I don’t believe in doing something simply because everyone agrees or disagrees on it but rather, I do things based on what’s best fit for me in each circumstance. If Griffin is best fit for the Kings at this time, may it be so, but on the same token if he isn’t, then we need to go back into the think tank. At this point in time we are all riding on speculation but of course that’s what keeps the conversations interesting. May the Kings be restored and reseated at its rightful place.
Stephen Curry
If Stephen Curry declares for the draft i think the kings should consider taking him he played alot of point this past year and played well, he reminds me of devin harris.
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