About Plan B ...
by Tom Ziller on May 11, 2009 3:22 PM PDT
in Commentary
Email
PrintThere's a simmering sentiment that Eddie Jordan is Plan A, and a cheap experienced coach is Plan B. Paul Westphal would seem to fit the description for Plan B. Brian McCormick, a coach and trainer whose work you can find at The Crossover Movement, checks in with some cogent concerns about this Plan B ...
If it's plan B, can't they go for someone with lots of upside? Or someone recognized for his teaching of young players? Heck, Kareem and Pat Ewing are basically begging for jobs. Dare them to take it for less than market rate. Dynamo Moscow is apparently not paying its players per an interview with Bostjan Nochbar, so maybe [David] Blatt would be interested in a new job. He's a Princeton guy -- makes sense.
Westphal seems like another Mussleman choice. I'd rather take another chance and have it blow up (Theus) than take a safe, former head coach who is a very mediocre coach and everyone already knows it. There is a fine line between great and disaster, but mediocre is mediocre.
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Amen B-Mac
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The requirements GP layed out are a recipe for hiring a mediocre coaching retread
Any high quality experienced head coach is not going to sign up for a $1.5 mil. The only guys who ae going to bite on that are coaches who haven’t much success and need the money.
It seems to me that they either have to pay enough for a coach with a winning track record (and there aren’t many of those available) or take a chance on one of the up and coming assistant coaches like Thibadeau or Budsinghofer (whatever).
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Mike Budenholzer
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
closer than I thought
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Close only counts in cigar's, strippers, horseshoe's, and hand grenades
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Don't smoke
I’m broke, I don’t live in the country, and I’m a pacifist. I’m 0-4 on that one.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm going to have to call you out on that one
“Pacifist”
I’d let that one slide, but Otis, coolcat and lttg would beg to differ. :)
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
I'm not a pacifist
But It’s not like I hop up & down when war comes around.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Nobody does.
Ok, people, let's generate all the good Karma we can until May 19. Then you can go back to your shallow and empty lifestyles.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 12, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Or Dick Cheney
Or Donald Rumsfeld. It’s pretty easy to hop up & down when you don’t have to go to war though. Yay! for being married with children in Vietnam. What a scam for the rich that was. (That, and signing up for the reserves in Toronto.)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Can someone
explain why Sam Mitchell’s name hasn’t been dropped – at least as part of this “Plan B” scenario?
Good question
Better him than Avery Johnson.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
you just had to say that didn't you
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
It doesn't seem logical
that they would overlook a guy who so recently won coach of the year and took Toronto to the playoffs…especially with his work with Garnett in Minnesota and later Bosh…
Mitchell is not the answer
One of the big reasons he got bounced out of Toronto was his unwillingness to play young Bargnani and evolve the team’s style to the run-and-gun style that Bryan Colangelo wanted to emulate from his time in Phoenix. He got in a huge fight with Colangelo before his COY season, but backed down and had the best season that TOR had experienced in a while. I am loathe to give a young team that will definately need constant lineup tweaking and coaching adaptability to a coach like Mitchell.
very unimpressive coach IMO
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 12, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Now I gotta add another link
B-Mac’s stuff is far too good to ignore.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Question for TZ
Was this something that B-Mac wrote in email to you, or did he write it in his blog as part of his set piece?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thought so
Even though his new blog is terrific stuff too. It’s definitely worth reading.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The thing is
even our Plan A is mediocre
by LPKingsFan on May 11, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Mediocre?
Is widely credited with the offense that took New Jersey to winning 2 Eastern Conference Championships, and then took the Wizards to the playoffs a couple of times. Seems capable to me, but I’m an Eddie Jordan fan.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Don't wish to be a naysayer
But New Jersey had mediocre offenses under Byron Scott/Eddie Jordan as a tandem. Only time that Eddie Jordan has had a better defensive team than offensive team as a head coach was the 97/98 year, and hell, The KIngs were like 20th in defensive efficiency and 28th in offensive efficiency. Not much to brag about there.
EJ can work, but arguing that he coached this great offense in New Jersey is not an argument that will sway me Ex G.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Until you mention AJ
And my head explodes from comprehending what Geoff Petrie was smoking.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Hmmm
Seems like Washington or New Jersey should have hung onto him then.
Sorry, I’m really not trying to dog out Jordan, and right now I’d rather he was hired than any of the other names out there…but this just feels like a mediocre group of candidates.
Question: What kind of bear is best?
I can agree with that
I’ve always kinda liked Jordan, but I agree that the coaching pool we’ve discussed doesn’t blow my hair back.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
The only candidates that really intrigue me are Ettore Messina and Mike Budenholzer because of their resume's/affiliations
Jeff Ruland is a guy whom I would hope Eddie Jordan would look at hiring as he’s been successful with Mo Cheeks players on coaching defense (having those players helps too).
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
About Messina
is so sure that Petrie isn’t going to give him at least an interview for the job. Sure he hasn’t NBA experience, but he is a winning guy and has coached all across Europe.
I know he may seem a risk, but sincerely I prefer him to any other name on the list
"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan
Go Kings!
And as a Kings Fan
Im am tired of having a team that is just mediocre!
Build a team that can compete for the NBA Finals year and year out, I do not care if it takes 5 years plus to build. Get the players, get the coach, get the ring. Lets stop settling.
Member of play JT and Donte Greene 40 mins a game club.
Build a team that can compete for the NBA Finals year in & year out?
Are we turning back the clock to the 60’s with the Boston Celtics in mind?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And a few others
Time to build a dynasty though… Starts with a franchise player.
Member of play JT and Donte Greene 40 mins a game club.
Ooooh
So that’s what you’re supposed to do!! Win Championships!! Shit, someone notify Petrie!!
by Nick the Quick on May 11, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriosuly
Where have the Kings been since Petrie had the job? Oh yeah we have never won a championship! Someone slap Petrie in the back of the head…
Member of play JT and Donte Greene 40 mins a game club.
It's generally best to let this sort of thing go
People who want to argue against Geoff Petrie can. Just let ’em hang themselves. They will you know.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I dont even want to start this again
Too many staunch Petrie supporters on this sports blog.
Member of play JT and Donte Greene 40 mins a game club.
Maybe if you used some evidence
and see what other GMs around the league have done around the same time, people may respect your arguments a little more. Just an observation…
Its been done
GP ranks right up in the top group. The last few years have skewed things a bit against him.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 12, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I know that lltg
I would like Sac King to do his own research and understand why people don’t agree with him. It’s easy to say people here are “staunch Petrie supporters” while the fact is that GP has been a top notch GM for many years and there is evidence to prove it.
I’m just tired of people coming here and labeling everyone as “Artest haters” or “Petrie supporters” because not everyone agrees with their points
Yeah I know
my comment was really for him
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 12, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Evidence, ok
Geoff Petrie: General Manager for 14 seasons , 9 of those seasons has been in the playoffs, has two division titles, never has won an NBA championship or Conference title.
Kevin Mchale: 14 seasons, 8 playoffs, two division titles, no conference or NBA championships.
Danny Ainge: General Manager for 6 seasons, 4 he made playoffs, 3 division titles, 2 conference title, and 1 NBA championship.
Danny Ferry: 4 seasons, all 4 playoffs, 2 division titles, 1 conference title, and soon to be one NBA championship :)
Joe Dumars: 9 seasons, 8 playoffs, 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, 1 NBA championship
Mitch Kupchak: 9 seasons, 8 playoffs, 5 division title, 5 conference titles, 2 NBA championships
Rod Thorn: 9 seasons, 6 playoffs, 4 division titles, 2 conference titles, 0 NBA championships
Donnie Walsh: 18 seasons, 13 playoffs, 3 division titles, 1 conference title, 0 NBA championships
RC Buford: 7 seasons, 7 playoffs, 4 division titles, 3 conference titles, 3 NBA Championships
Kevin O’Connor: 10 seasons, 7 playoffs, 3 division titles, 0 conference titles, 0 NBA Championships.
Petrie is the second longest tenured General Manager in the NBA, and for 14 seasons he has never won a conference title nor an NBA championship. I don’t know what you base success on, but I typically use performance as a gauge. Just getting to playoffs doesn’t mean much until you bring home an NBA championship. In comparison to other GM’s, Petrie is mediocre based on performance. List of successful GMs (with evidence):
1. Joe Dumars
2. Mitch Kupchak
3. R.C Buford
4. Danny Ainge
5. Donnie Walsh
6. Danny Ferry
7. Rod Thorn
8. Donnie Nelson
9. Kevin O’Connor
10. Geoff Petrie
11. Kevin McHale
The only thing seperating McHale and Petrie is one extra trip to the playoffs. Time to snap out of the reality world that Petrie is one of the best GMs in the NBA. He may have resurected the Kings franchise, but he currently is employed to the worse team in the NBA.
Make me a believer (with evidence) that Petrie is one of the top GM’s in the NBA…
Member of play JT and Donte Greene 40 mins a game club.
by Sac King on May 12, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Petrie's job is to put the best talent together to form a winning team.
He put together several championship caliber teams.
Its the players and coaches responsibility to live up to expectations.
We didn’t win a championship for several reasons:
- bad luck. Having our franchise player out with injury once in the midst of the playoffs and the 2nd time he returns out of form and sequence with the team disrupting team chemistry. (Adleman’s fault)
- It’s been proven that the Kings were the benefactors of rigged refereeing in LA’s favor
- Players must rise to the occassion. How many times did Peja let us down in the playoffs.
- Horry makes a hail marry buzzer beater and essentially costs us the championship.
Your logic is the same type that cost us one of the best coaches in the league Rick Adleman.
by nothingbutnet on May 12, 2009 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
A lot of the guys on this list benefitted
from being so bad that they got a great draft picks, which they either utilized to draft franchise players (LeBron) or trade for big stars (KG, Ray Allen). The Kings have not selected higher than 7th during GP’s tenure, and have not selected higher than 10th this decade. And while guys like RC Buford and Mitch Kupchak have not had those premium picks to play with, they did inherit guys named Duncan and Kobe.
I’m not going to waste my time trying to make you a believer – you’re entitled to your opinion. I’ll reserve judgment for the next couple of years.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
And that's part of Petrie's problem
he takes too long to rebuild… always trying to drag a “retool” along. They lost patience with him in Portland for doing the same too IIRC. I’m not saying we’d be better of without him, but all this “whoever Petrie picks I’ll like too” is a little too much blind loyalty for my taste.
But his ability at the draft is well documented and proven
Don’t like him as a GM? Fine. But it’s awfully tough to question his track record at the draft.
And 1 – I really feel that it was the Artest trade that delayed the rebuilding process by a couple of years (I’m not piling on Artest here – he made us better than we needed to be). And while I will not excuse GP for any deal, the Maloofs influence on this deal was large.
And 2 – If not for Webber’s knee, this franchise probably hangs a championship banner or two in the rafters. I find it difficult to slam Petrie because Webber’s knee did not stand the test of time like Duncan’s or KG’s.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
not only that 214
Dumars got the 2nd pick in 2003 from a trade he didn’t even make. Ferry inheritated the Cavs with LeBron already there. McHale isn’t even the GM (and likely to not be the coach either) of the Wolves. Dumars has made multiple mistakes along the way (not really counting Iverson). Mitch Kupchak essentially became GM because Jerry West abruptly retired amidst the Shaq-Kobe feuds. (Of course, if the Lakers win a few of these titles he deserves a great deal of credit.)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Damn you guys (nthingbutnet and section)
He replied to me and you all took my points.
I’ll just add a really easy one: If you truly believe that Danny Ferry in like 4 years) and Kevin Natting McHale are better (or equal) GMs than Geoff Petrie then I can’t help you. Like section said “I’ll just be wasting my time, you are entitled to your opinion” and I guess I can respect that.
I am underwhelmed
.444 win percent in six full seasons and parts of two others. Never won 55% of his games in a single season. Never won more than 45 games. Sounds like the very definition of mediocre. Is this really the best we can do?
I guess four straight .500 seasons might look pretty good to the Kings after the debacle of the last three seasons.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 11, 2009 7:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Not likely, but
Jeff Bzdelik.
I don’t know much about the Euros, but I want a good coach.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 12, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Byron Scott as well
if they can pull that off.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 12, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I will give Jordan credit
The Wizards were going nowhere fast when he got there and were perennial losers. Against that backdrop, four straight .500 seasons was pretty decent.
Whoever is the coach, Petrie better stock the cupboard or they are going to be toast.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 12, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Your last sentence I agree with
Even though I think a quality coach is crucial too, it’s just as crucial they get talent as well.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Mediocrity be damned
Consistency in leadership is what this team needs.
2-3 years ago I would have agreed with McCormick. But he basically he suggests we continue with the same game plan that has dissappointed us since ol’ DUI Muss came to town. Been there, done that… It. didn’t. work.
and BTW how does Westphal = Mussleman? One would have to dig pretty deep to find any meaningful similarities. McCormick then goes on to do some SERIOUS name dropping… Ewing? Abdul-Jabbar? Freaking Blatt??!!?! Come on with the Blatt mention. This dude is talking out of his ASS!
The Kings are 2-3 years away from post-season relevancy. A home-run coaching decision doesn’t seem available. So find a guy that the young Kings will listen to and learn from. Bring the franchise back to respectability. The right coach will come when we are ready for him.
Frank Army
I disagree with B-Mac about some things
But talking out of his ass is usually not something consistent with his opinion.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
This is the only piece of his I've ever read
so I can’t say anything, with any accuracy, about the quality of his opinion. But who in their right mind, with any regard for the Kings as a franchise, would seriously suggest his mentions for head coach?
An unlinked rumor started by Bostjan Nachbar means his head coach, with a familiarity with the Princeton, would be a better head coach than Paul Westphal?!?!
How much thought did he really put into that?
Frank Army
And btw...
There is much more than a fine line seperating great and disaster.
Great is Phil Jackson, a disaster is EMuss. Those two are miles apart.
Frank Army
You're entitled to your opinion BP
And, as I said previously, I don’t agree with everyone one of B-Mac’s opinions, but being he’s a Kings fan, an actual coach, and knows quite a bit about the game, i have to say it’s a pretty big deal. The fact that TZ sought him out over email (or he sent TZ an email so TZ could post it) says volumes here. Consider the point overall.
An unlinked rumor? You could go find it BP. You want to find out more information about Europe go find it yourself. It’s not always TZ’s, or B-Mac’s responsibility to seek out more information. Laziness breeds contempt sir.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The saying goes
Familiarity breeds contempt. I like the creative license though.
The fact that you believe in this guys credibility means something, it does. But just because TZ posted it doesn’t mean he actually believes or agrees with it. Nor does it make any of McCormick’s suggestions any less preposterous. Even if what he says about BJ’s quote is true does that really make Blatt a qualified candidate? Does it mean that Westphal somehow resembles EMuss?
His overall point is to consider a coach with upside or a teacher for our youngsters. Ewing and Kareem are teaching young players but that doesn’t mean they can be a head coach? Neither of them fits the criteria laid down by Petrie, that I agree with, of a proven winning coach.
Frank Army
At this point
We just came off the worst season we’ve had as a franchise. We have talent deficiencies at almost every position. Talking about bringing in a guy who is gonna win us a championship is stupid. If Pop or Phil or Red freaking Auerbach started for us tomorrow we’d still suck. If all we do is get a guy who can take this mess to a place where we aren’t a joke and I can feel good about watching us again, I’d be fine with that.
"If Pop or Phil or Red freaking Auerbach started for us tomorrow we’d still suck. "
True, but they would draw free agent interest in coming to Sac… I don’t see EJ or PW drawing top tier talent. This draft can produce a future great player for us, but a major free agent is going to be needed to turn the corner any time soon.
no one the maloofs are willing to pay for... or who is available
It all begins with commitment to the next coach. Nobody will draw free agents without stability, unless their name is Pop or Phil. Signing EJ, IMO, is not going to make guys call their agents and say " let’s look at Sacramento". I’m not saying EJ would be a bad coaching choice, he is at the top of my list of those mentioned and available so far (Given Van Gundy is out). It’s just going to take a while to turn it around. If they hire EJ, I want them to sign him to 4 years min.
Money and opportunity
And we have little of either at this point in time. This is why the conversation will revolve around Eddie Jordan and Paul Westphal, not Phil Jackson or George Karl.
We have to crawl before we can walk again.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Great free agent players aren't going to want to come to our team because it sucks.
It doesn’t have anything to do with how good the coach is perceived to be. They want money and respect, both of which our team is short on currently. You need some guy who is gonna come in here and turn this franchise around. Look at the Pistons and the Lakers teams that beat us at the start of the decade. The coach who brought those teams to respectability was not the coach who brought those teams a title. If we’re even a bad playoff team, we’re in such a better position to land good free agent players and coaches, and our financial situation would improve as well, which would help us sign better players and coaches and so on.
Agreed
“Talking about bringing in a guy who is gonna win us a championship is stupid. If Pop or Phil or Red freaking Auerbach started for us tomorrow we’d still suck.”
The man speaks the truth!
Member of play JT and Donte Greene 40 mins a game club.
Use the quote block
if you’re going to do that. Not an attack – just helping. Paste it, Highlight it and click the two little upside down quote marks between the title and the body.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 12, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Not thrilled with Westphal
I’ll take Collins, Scott, Johnson, Jordon & Messina over him in a heartbeat.
Wisenant’s will doom the team. Hello Anaheim.
Upside is my pick for Plan B.
What’s the worst thing that can happen?
One more top pick and hello John Wall.
Yes, yes I think he's the real REAL thing
stop dreamin’, somebody else gets him.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on May 12, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
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