Assigning Ricky Rubio Trade Limits
It's official - he's dreamy.
Let’s start by admitting that we lust for Ricky Rubio. 48% of you wanted him when Blake Griffin was still a possibility. As much as we want to say that Brandon Jennings or Tyreke Evans or (insert player name here) might become a better pro, that’s just code to prepare ourselves for the very real disappointment that Ricky Rubio may not wind up in a Kings’ uniform. Simply, if it was our turn to pick tomorrow and Ricky Rubio were available, probably better than 90% of us would want him. Were Rubio available and passed on by the Kings at #4, the ensuing draft thread would be epic.
Three weeks ago, I posted “The Five Stages Of A Geoff Petrie Draft Pick.” The post drew a parallel between GP’s draft picks and the five stages of death: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. As it pertains to the ping pong ball drop, we have already gone through denial (are you kidding me?!?) and anger (effing David Stern!), and we’ve moved on to bargaining. And much like when you’re bargaining death, you’re ready to promise almost anything.
We have seen comments that have offered up Jason Thompson or Spencer Hawes or Kevin Martin(!) to move up one or two slots to draft the exciting yet still unproven Spaniard. This makes no sense to me. And based on recent history, it is overpaying.
In 1998, Antawn Jamison was chosen by the Toronto Raptors with the 4th pick of the draft. He was then traded for Vince Carter, who was taken 5th by the Golden State Warriors.
In 2006, Minnesota traded #6 pick Brandon Roy to Portland for #7 pick Randy Foye and $1 million.
Also in 2006, Chicago sent #2 pick LaMarcus Aldridge and a conditional 2nd round pick to Portland for Tyrus Thomas and the rights to Victor Khyrapa.
Last year, Minnesota sent #3 pick O.J. Mayo, Marko Jaric (3 yrs., $21 million) and Greg Buckner (3 yrs, $12 million, partially guaranteed) to Memphis for #5 pick Kevin Love, Mike Miller (2 yrs., $19 million), Brian Cardinal (2 yrs., $13 million) and Jason Collins (1 yr., $6 million).
Also last year, Indiana sent #11 pick Jerryd Bayless to Portland for #13 pick Brandon Rush, Jarrett Jack (1 yr. @ $2 million preceding a qualifying offer) and Josh McRoberts ($700k).
Recapping, Toronto saved a few rookie salary scale dollars with their deal. Minnesota picked up some cash in the Roy/Foye deal. The Bulls and Blazers swapped rookies and little else. Memphis took on 2011 salaries in order to move up, while The T-Wolves got a good player at a relatively fair contract (Miller), plus shed contract for 2010. The Portland/Indiana deal was thought to be a rookie swap with throw-ins, though Jack did play reasonably well for Indiana last year.
Mike Miller was the only known commodity involved in any of these deals, and he was pretty much thought of as little net value in relation to his contract. The point is, it has not historically taken a ton to swap up a couple of picks.
Now, if a team like Portland (for example) felt that Ricky Rubio was the missing piece for them, they could go to Memphis and offer any combination of Jerryd Bayless, Nicolas Batum, Rudy Fernandez, Sergio Rodriguez, and/or their #24 and #32 picks. And if Portland wants to do that, the Kings can’t compete with it, nor should they. The aforementioned Blazer players are 2nd tier for them (this is said with no intended disrespect - Fernandez is very important to Portalnd and is a stud, but he is not as important as Roy/Aldridge/Oden/Pryzbilla). If the trade didn’t pan out, it wouldn’t affect their core. The Kings on the other hand, would suffer massive damage if Rubio didn’t pan out and the cost was a current core player and a pick. And save the “there are no core players on a 17-55 team.” Martin, Thompson and Hawes have value in relation to their contracts, period. They should not be considered as easily dispensable just because the team currently stinks. That type of thinking would have jettisoned Mitch Richmond long before we used him to acquire Chris Webber. This is not to say that any of these guys are untouchable. But it is to say that you don’t give these guys up for the unknown.
Simply put, the actual trades that were mentioned above are the normal market. The Washington’s #5 and JaVale McGee rumors for the #2 or #3 pick appear to be false (though we’ll see). If a team like Portland comes in with an offer that is above and beyond that market, well, that’s that. In the mean time, these are the strongest offers that I would like to see the Kings make to move up in the draft:
The #4 and #23 pick and Kenny Thomas (1 yr. @ $9 million) to Memphis for the #2 pick and Marco Jaric (2 yrs. @ $15 million). Memphis retains a top four pick, picks up a #23 pick (to go with their #27 pick). They net a $6 million savings by involving Thomas and Jaric. Memphis runs the risk of losing out on Thabeet, but if they are that high on him they would just take him and not make this deal. The Kings get their man and still have a pick at #31 to try and pick up a bench player. The contract weight of Jaric in 2010 will not prevent the Kings from financially participating in the big fish free agent market. I would be OK substituting Donté Greene for the #23 pick if that was Memphis’ preference. It should also be noted that this deal could be made without involving Thomas (and I'd be OK with that), but Memphis will probably need his contract to reach the league payroll minimum, unless they go free agent shopping or make one of those "Marcus Camby" trades.
The #4 and #23 pick and Donté Greene to OKC for the #3 and #25 pick. This is providing that Rubio is still there at #3, of course. The Thunder move up a couple slots later in the 1st round and land Greene at the low price of $870,000, and still get whomever they would have selected at #3. The Kings get their man, and retain a latter 1st round pick. I would be willing to keep Greene and let them keep their #25 pick is that was OKC’s preference.
Any deal that has the Kings giving up more is a deal that I do not want to make. I should note that I see Nocioni, Udrih and Garcia as having little or no value in relation to their contracts (with Garcia perhaps being barely fair value for a contending team), so any deals involving them actually benefits us more than the other team, unless we are taking even worse contract in return.
I love Ricky Rubio. The thought of him in a Kings uniform makes me warm and fuzzy. But only at fair market value. If his acquisition is to cost us any of our few assets, I’m ready to welcome whomever Geoff Petrie drafts to play alongside Martin, Thompson and Hawes with open arms.
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181 comments
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Comments
I don't like any deal that involves Greene
I think Petrie can move up without having to give up Donte. Plus, with regards to Donte, why would Memphis really want him with Rudy Gay around? Why would OKC want Donte with Jeff Green and Kevin Durant essentially being better players who play the same exact kind of position that they play?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 12:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
“I would be OK substituting Donté Greene for the #23 pick if that was Memphis’ preference.”
I’m probably not okay with giving up Greene unless Petrie really has someone in particular he can select at 23.
“I would be willing to keep Greene and let them keep their #25 pick is that was OKC’s preference.”
I would be more than willing.
"geez its like this site is so serious i jus wanna git mai opinyons on tha Kings out there ok" - TZ
by sroufe on May 24, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's nothing that says Greene has to stay in either OKC or Memphis
And Gay will need to be paid in 2010, Durant and Green in 2011. A lot can happen to change the makeup of any of these teams.
I agree about not wanting to give Greene up, but I could absorb his loss with the acquisition of Rubio. You “ouch” point is at least one point north of mine.
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by section214 on May 24, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could absorb his loss
But, truthfully, that’s one less reason to acquire Rubio. Players with Donte’s skill set are rare, and as such should be not given up.
If you can’t move up by switching Marko Jaric for Kenny Thomas, or swapping picks or something, I don’t really see how Rubio is worth it.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
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by section214 on May 24, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll make my point clear on my own post on EC Inc later today
Just to see. I’ll even link to this because you’ve started a great tipping point with your post.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly is that "skill set?"
Donte’s prime “skill set” is that he’s a chucker.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 24, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've waited a very long time to say this
Now is an appropriate time.
You are a fucking idiot.
And now it is done.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Again,
I have yet to see anything particularly mind-blowing about Donte’ Greene. In his few NBA opportunities he displays a lot of the concerns with his game that made him not a lottery type talent but a very late 1st round pick.
yes, he does have some raw athletic ability, and the Kings need that, but it doesn’t get much development because of Donte’s insistence on taking those jump shots.
I don’t see him becoming an NBA 4, but so far he doesn’t seem smooth enough to handle the SF position either.
I’m not saying he can’t develop an inside game, get a lot more focused as a defender, play smarter, etc. Maybe that’ll happen but it’s just as likely he’ll be a career bench warmer. Either way, I’m not saying you give him up for nothing, but the point is that it’s silly to hype him up into something the odds say he’s some sort of “untouchable” talent.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 24, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Word.
You’ve got to give something up to get something back, and honestly I don’t think Greene is much to give up for a player that has all-star potential (Rubio). The Kings need stars more than they need role-players, and there’s a very good chance Greene will be nothing more than that.
by cbsf on May 24, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
hey, I know we’re all hoping for the best regarding Donte’s potential, but so far he’s just another kid with some talent, and there’s a good chance that that’s pretty much what he is. I sure wouldn’t let him come between me and an otherwise reasonable offer to get Rubio.
On the other hand, I think Pookey is correct in that neither team between us and the #2 slot would have a great deal of interest in Donte’.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 24, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know you disagree about Donte's talent
I’m pretty much on an island by myself with that one. It’s like anything; we’ll see whose right or wrong at the end of the day. Right now, I don’t see what the worth is in giving up on Donte.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well,
I agree we don’t want to give up on Donte’. I’m not saying we should. If we can keep him developing for a couple of years we’ll start to know what he’s capable of, (although getting him any kind of minutes might be hard to find until at least this coming mid-season).
And your point about a small forward probably wouldn’t be all that interesting to the Grizz or OKC in a trade with the Kings seems right to me, pookey.
On the other hand, if either of those teams was pushing to include Donte’ in a deal that could bring us someone of Ricky Rubio’s talent and charisma, I’d have no problem pulling the trigger.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 24, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are giving up on DG already?
he is a player with rare gifts and abilities, size, shooting,and athleticism, and you guys are giving up after one year, and he’s what, 20 years old. Giving him up for the 25th pick is just retarded, you won’t find a player with his skill set that low in the draft. he would be a lotto pick this year guaranteed. Don’t worry Pookey, i see what you see in donte, and i would not be surprised if he ends up being the best player on the kings in 3-4 years.
by luckybastard on May 24, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you LB
Doratio Kane is a kid with a ton of ability. He was placed in the lottery in some of last years’ mocks and that was a much stronger draft.
Trading away a year of maturity on Dontè for another year on some other project with probably less promise at #25 is impatient and myopic.
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if it's retarded lucky
It’s part of the package to move up to snag Rubio for certain. But, that is not a guarantee that Memphis would agree to that deal anyway.
I think the biggest fear Geoff Petrie has is another team offers up a ton of the right assets for Memphis/OKC to take on.
Cap room won’t exactly work because both teams will have the most this offseason along with Detroit.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm... I guess
you see something in Donte’ that the 27 NBA GM’s who passed on him didn’t see. Which reminds me; if Greene’s skill set is impossible to find with the 25th pick, how come he was the 28th pick? I’m not trying to be smart here, I’m just trying to figure out where all the Donte’ Greene love is coming from.
Anyway, dang, man, I just said (and I quote) “we don’t want to give up on Donte”. This isn’t about giving up on a young player (he’s 21, BTW) who does have some potential. But the discussion is about what it might take to move up and get Rubio.
There’s absolutely no reason why Greene would be off the table in any trade talks that could improve the Kings.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 25, 2009 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess...
i do see something that other nba gm’s don’t see. i been to a lot of them kjngs games, and from what i’ve seen, is that, (during pregame) he has a pretty and effective stroke, and can jump with the best of them, and i love rubio, but i believe that if Brandon Jennings went to college here, he would be the #2 pick, ’ cause he would be an automatic starter and in the spotlight more.
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MM
I think we are on the same page here – just different paragraphs
If, in dealing for RR, Dontè was to paired with the #23 pick or some such scenario than yes I am all for it. That is given the parameters that Rubio is considered in the category of “special” and not “potentially special”, as Dontè has a high ceiling as well.
I still recall how lost and unimpressive Kevin Martin was his first season (and that shot, ugh!). I am hopeful that the trading away of Artest, which was of 3 parts – Bobby Jackson, Dontè Greene and this years’ #23 – was mostly about obtaining Greene, and that those skills that prompted that deal are worth polishing to produce a gem.
by betweentheeyes on May 25, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you all know those TWO names!!
you all know both those names that the KINGS gave up on!! look at them now, stars for their teams!! gerald is controlling the paint and slashing for the bobcats!! hedo is pretty much a g/f with passing out nicks all day long!! imagine if the KINGS still had hedo and gerald. the lineup: pg: hedo!! sg: martin sf:gerald wallace pf:jason c:hawes!! how do you like that line-up?
by blowfishee on May 26, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm...gave up on?
Hedo was part of the deal that brought Brad Miller here, which but for C-Webb’s blown would have worked out quite nicely.
Wallace was a victim of numbers – the Kings were not going to jettison any of their core in the expansion draft. And while I like Wallace, he is a human bruise that cannot stay healthy. And he “controls the paint and slashes” for a Bobcats team that is perrenial lottery material.
Just sayin’…
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by section214 on May 26, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And 1 -
You think maybe had we retained Hedo and Wallace (who happen to play the same position) that we probably would have had different draft positions, meaning that we wouldn’t have Martin, JT and Hawes?
And 2 – I would pay money to watch Hedo chase Deron Williams, CP3, Tony Parker, etc., etc., etc., around from the PG slot.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 26, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But you pay money now and don’t even get that!
And to pick nits for a second, it probably wouldn’t have changed the Martin selection unless you think that Petrie nabbed him out from under Los Angeles, San Antonio, & Indiana. He was drafted about as low as can be still considered a 1st Round Pick.
As an aside, Utah really whiffed in 2004 (belated pun warning – since both names start with a “K”).
That draft class looks pretty good, they had #14 & #16, and passed on Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Jameer Nelson, Kevin Martin, Saša Vujačić, Beno Udrih, Anderson Varejão, Chris Duhon, & Trevor Ariza. They had TWO shots at everyone on that list save for Jefferson. Ouch.
by smgmatt on May 26, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Picking on Utah
I approve.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would deal Greene if
he was absolutely the deal breaker. I still think the kid has a good future ahead of him and don’t want to give him up but we all have to realize that we are very low on assets. To be more specific, we are low on assets other teams would want. I consider Kevin, JT and Hawes those types of assets. Greene is really close to that group because of the low risk, decent-to-high reward factor. He’s very cheap and has the tools to become something especial. If he does, great, if he doesn’t, he’s making less than a million. I can see why teams would like to get him (exact same reason why I want him to stay in Sacramento).
Looking at the Blazers, they have plenty of assets to deal (Outlaw, Fernandez, Bayless) without affecting their core, like section pointed out. The same could be said for Washington (Young, McGee, Blatche). Unfortunately, the Kings are not there yet and it’s gonna take some smart manuvering to get Rubio.
I still like the K-9 for Jaric trade, I think it helps Memphis, especially if the rumors of Rubio’s agent not wanting him to play for the Grizz are true. I mean, this is the franchise that gave away Pau Gasol for freaking Javaris Crittenton, Aroon Mckie, Marc Gasol (the only decent asset) and a couple low first round picks. As much as I said yesterday that we may be setting outselves up for dissapointment, I can still see Rubio ending up in a Kings uni.
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if Petrie thinks Rubio is the guy
I’d still be a little nervous about giving up future cap room for him. The Kings finally have the opportunity to have some cap flexibility, and I personally think there are still too many question marks about the chances of Rubio’s game translating to the NBA to justify giving up that flexibility.
I trust Petrie, and given the number of young players already on the roster, trading #4 and #23 or #31 for #2 makes sense if Petrie thinks Rubio’s the guy. But I don’t think he’s enough of a sure thing to give up cap space.
by nbrans on May 24, 2009 1:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you here
Part of me thinks, or hopes, that Rubio isn’t Petrie’s guy anyway. I’ll admit some ignorance to his game, but what I’ve seen he just seems slow and young, star point guards can’t get away with being slow anymore. And it seems like my jump shot may be more consistent.
The bigger issue as far as I’m concerned is giving up possibly the best trade piece come February. Another is the two firsts to get two places higher (especially if they are pining as much as they are said to be for Thabeet) does not compute. Thabeet doesn’t go lower than and a team looking for size could care less about two swingmen, an earlier version of Rubio and a project. The more I look at it the more I can’t even fathom it as a possibility.
As an aside, using the 23rd and 31st to get Teague is becoming a real possibility although I’m not sold he could get his shot off as a pro. Just me though…
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teague does have a bit of a windup
But I think he can create enough space because he’s quick and is a credible threat to penetrate.
We see eye to eye on Rubio. People keep treating him as a sure thing, but he’s really not. There are some significant holes in his game even in the best case scenario – he’s going to have to overcome his lack of quickness and he can’t shoot unless he’s standing still and wide, wide open. Maybe he’s a transcendent enough talent and still young enough to overcome those shortcomings, but there are only a handful of players in the league who are stars without having top notch athleticism.
He’s a risk, and you’re really upping the gamble if you’re giving up a lot to get him.
by nbrans on May 24, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don' think K-9's contract or Greene is "a lot"
But that just me. Plus, what player at 2, 3, or 4 in this draft is not a risk??
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're all risks in this draft
I’m just saying that giving up assets for a relative sure bet is one thing. Giving up assets in order to roll the dice is something else. Petrie’s been willing to do the first over the year, but he doesn’t gamble in order to take another gamble.
by nbrans on May 24, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I share the concern nbrans
I wouldn’t give up Martin, JT, or Hawes for the chance to get Rubio, no way. As much as I want Rubio to be a King, he’s still an unknown. I do believe that other options should be explored, and I don’t think something around $6 million in cap space or, if it comes to that, Greene is that much to give up for a player like Rubio, who will all his limitation has other skills that will really help this team.
I know you had a very cool post about the draft a while back so let me ask you a question. What do yo see as being Rubio’s best case scenario (Nash, Kidd?) and worst case (Beno?)??
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I might rather give up Greene than KT actually
Especially since I have a feeling Nocioni isn’t going anywhere, and Greene isn’t going to get any time between Noc and Garcia. KT’s expiring could be extremely valuable at the deadline though, particularly with people clearing space for 2010.
As for Rubio, I think the best case is vintage Jason Kidd — creative passer, great defender, not someone you can count on for too many points, but still the type of player who can take a team of roleplayers to the NBA finals because he makes everyone so much better.
Worst case (and I think more likely) is current Jason Kidd — creative passer, defensive sieve because he’s not quick enough and the NBA doesn’t allow Euro-style hand checking, and can only shoot when wide, wide open. I just don’t think Rubio is as athletic as vintage Jason Kidd, and the NBA rules favor quick guards, which Rubio is not. I think he’ll be a fan favorite because of his flashy game, but I don’t know that he’s going to be terribly valuable unless I’m wrong about his athleticism.
by nbrans on May 24, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kidd's athleticism was overrated
It was his conditioning that was atypical.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Watch starting at 4:00:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N42-n17EUM&feature=related
That is way more athletic than Rubio at 18.
by nbrans on May 24, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to watch the whole thing mayne
Don’t worry.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to be fair
RE: what I related to pookyguru below: I think you should grace people with your opinion more often. And here especially – you may not get as immediate responses as other places but I’d rather read it here than others. Seems more productive. As I said below, praise.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nocioni is bait
Especially if you get a coach with teeth. A “gritty” player on a young team becomes moot if you have a coach than doesn’t have to worry about his next job. Will it happen? Who knows, but I think it is part of it…
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nocioni is $21 million over the next 3 years
That’s pretty pricey bait. I think that there are teams that would take him, but I don’t know that they’d give up much (if anything) to get him.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Memphis would be willing to swap him for Marko Jaric
That could be one thing they would be interested in. Hell, they tried to sign him in 2007.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My blind guess
is that they would prefer Thomas’ one year at $9 million over Noc’s $21 million over three years. But if that’s what they wanted, I’d like that even more than dealing the expiring contract of K9(woof!).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep I know
But, if it’s about talent, Noc for Jaric is not even close. Noc also fits well with Gay on the front line as well. Although, I’m not sure Memphis would do that.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is noc's contract
typical of the chicago contracts of recent years? I.E it actually is cheaper at the end than at the start?
" Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. "
by Bushka on May 24, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
It was front loaded, and yes it decreases each year for the next 3.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think the Celtics could have use?
They wanted him after all. And they ended up with Moore. Hmm…
Nocioni has use for a team that is close. He does nothing for the Kings. $7 mil a year is horse feed for a team in contention – cap space for a vet isn’t terribly uncommon. I think any of the teams in the playoffs would be better off with him than the 6th man. Chance I’m wrong, but…
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I probably missed it, but I still don't really get the reasoning behind that trade
Was it to free a bit cap space by removing the one additional year of Miller’s contract in exchange for Gooden’s expiring deal to have the option of entering the 2009 FA market? Nocioni’s contract while going backward is still quite ugly and runs forever (well, through 2011/12 season at least). Like Diaw in Phoenix I didn’t think they would find a taker for him. Moving Salmons for him was hardly the reason for this deal.
by Norsktroll on May 24, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Multiple reasons for having done that deal Norskie
1) was to save money for the 2009-10 season on total salary.
2) Miller had quit on the team and the Kings needed to free up time for Hawes & Thompson
3) to save money by making all those deals this past season
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair assestment
I do believe that Nocioni is not as hard to move as some people believe. Remember the Celts really tried to get him last year and I can see a contender next year asking for him as a piece that could get them over the hump. The only way he stays is if Petrie really sees him as part of the puzzle. At the end of the day, one of three (Garcia, Noc, or Greene) is gonna have to go. I knew that from day one when we traded for him.
I agree with K-9’s contract being so valuable but if Pretrie really thinks RR is his guy then I say use your whatever you have to get him.
In terms of the Jason Kidd comparisons I see what you are saying. I would comment on the athleticism factor but I honestly have nothing educated to say so I’ll leave that for others. I think that if the worst case scenario (emphasis on WORST) is today’s Jason Kidd then I stil don’t see how we would giving too much with ether K-9 or Greene. I know we are in totaly different situations but Dallas gave up Devin Harris for today’s Jason Kidd. If Rubio becomes a Jason Kidd type player I would be very happy.
One last point, I keep hearing the whole “flashy” label being applied to Rubio and from a personal view I understand why, but people use it as if it was a bad thing. This is not Whte Chocoate making crazy passes to show off. When I see Rubio making “flashy” plays is mostly because that pass really give his teammates better looks. He doesn’t force “flashy” passes if they are not there. Not sure if other’s see the same thing.
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More on Noc
Boston tried to get him without giving anything up. And that goes back to my point. I think that he is easily tradeable, but at little or no value in return.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can get them for expiring contracts and a low first round
Then that would offset the loss (wow!! loss) of K-9’s contract in a potential trade to move up in the draft plus we get another asset.
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't give up on Greene yet
It’s risky but see my ideas about Noc. You can see the talent with Greene and you can’t give that up. Known talent without results is far more desirable that unknown talent at this stage.
Again, I profess ignorance beyond youtube, but a cement footed point guard is the total of what Rubio will be.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Blake Griffin makes the Kings that much better is beyond me
He works for the Clippers because they have players who can augment his weaknesses with his own abilities. But, the Kings don’t have those type of players.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's far from a sure thing
I think as Kings fans we collectively get caught up in the Jason Williams idea of a point guard and Rubio kind of promises that ideal. Frankly, I miss the excitement that Williams gave to the team. But he had a lot of ready talent around him and he was quick. Those are two things that aren’t really a part of this equation. If the Kings in this incarnation draft a point guard he needs to be able to also be complete as a player. You can theoretically teach a jump shot – speed and quickness not so much. And, yeah, the price paid to get such a player should be equivalent with the price paid. I guess that is a long way of agreeing with you again.
Another thing on Teague, if you want him to play one-on-one to maximize his effectiveness then it is almost necessary to put the rest of the team as spectators/spot-ups which, in a way, exacerbates many of the Kings’ problems. Martin’s shot takes long enough. Teague’s may be longer. I’ve seen some highlights that have blown my mind, but there’s a reason they’re highlights. If he’s available, he’s probably worth a Douby-esque gamble but they may end up being the same player.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on Rubio cuz he reminds me of J-Thrill
I’m sold on Rubio because I think he represents the best possibility of becoming a franchise player in this year’s draft.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You probably aren't alone but...
For my money it isn’t worth the price being discussed here. I’m too lazy to link anything, but I’m pretty sure you’ve espoused the reasoning for taking Tyreke at 4; nbrans has had his hat in the ring for Teague for weeks now. There’s other options and whether you think Rubio the best possibility of becoming a franchise player or not you almost have to realize he isn’t the only possibility and I think many people disregard that…
I’m going to make another aside here – I don’t comment much on these sites but I appreciate what you do and what you write both here and at ECI, but it may be worthwhile to be more succinct. You are someone with an opinion (one that many people can and will agree with) but I think it will be beneficial for you if you make it more palatable or digestible to more people. I guess take that for what it is worth. And, I’d like to see what you think about the A’s too. Consider this praise.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll keep your criticisms in mind
As far as the A’s are concerned, I don’t have any great original thoughts as I don’t follow the team very often other than occasionally checking the standings. I don’t have the time to really follow them as much as I would like.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Thabeet doesn't go lower than 5
That may make more sense.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 2:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I'd give up on Donte yet
unless OKC or Memphis absolutely refused to budge without him. If that were the case though, I wouldn’t trade the 23 or 31. Just 4 and Donte. And thats only if Petrie really likes Rubio.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on May 24, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would make Memphis or OKC sweat this out
Seriously.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
how realistic is a scenario with LAC trading down with OKC as has been discussed/rumored?
"geez its like this site is so serious i jus wanna git mai opinyons on tha Kings out there ok" - TZ
by sroufe on May 24, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not
No way LA gives up Griffin. Unless they don’t ever want to win for any reason.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But it is floating out there with all the other garbage…
"geez its like this site is so serious i jus wanna git mai opinyons on tha Kings out there ok" - TZ
by sroufe on May 24, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep DK I know
But even the Clippers can’t screw this up. He’s an All-American kid who will play his ass off for you. The Clippers can’t pass this up. If they are, Sterling should be forced to sell the Clippers immediately.
However, keep this in mind: The Clippers can sell more tickets with Griffin around than trading him.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
our best asset is Rubio’ agent. If he makes it crystal cler he doesn’t want Rubio in Memphis or OKC, it would be a little easie for the Kings to work something out
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That won't deter Memphis or OKC
What will deter them is Rubio’s weaknesses. That only helps Petrie in making a lower offer for Rubio. There is a level here that makes a deal worth it. And, what 214 proposed is way too high.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little high?
Maybe, but it depends how much you like Rubio. Way too high? Uh-uh.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too high
It’s not simply worth it. You don’t destroy your team to accede to other team’s demands. They want to call the Kings bluff or take another offer, you can’t control that. But, giving up that level of talent to get Rubio? No dice senor.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Destroy the team how?
I’m not talking about any of the core here. You don’t like the deal? I respect that. But phrases like “way too high” and “destroy your team” seem awfully strong when I’m talking about swapping picks and including such “assets” as Kenny Thomas and Donté Greene. This looks like it may be a job for -

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas yes
Greene no. I respect your point, and “Captain Hyperbole” not withstanding, it’s my opinion you don’t over-react to being in the 4th spot.
We disagree, and that’s okay. I don’t think either of us will lose any sleep over it, and when details come out, we both will revise our opinion of how this shakes out. Agreed?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me what Greene has shown
that in any way makes him a key part of our future? Potential? Sure. Upside, lots. But I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he would even be a lottery pick if he could go back in the draft right now. I see him and our 23rd pick as roughly equal at this point.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
by SavageBeast on May 24, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope sorry can't go there with you on that one
I think he’s a definite lottery pick in this year’s draft.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what?
His video blog entries or his towel waving enthusiasm?
Swing men we got. And better swing men than him. The only person on our entire roster that Donté gets a start ahead of is K9.
Not that I don’t love the kid. I do. And I think he’ll eventually be pretty good. But to say that trading him is akin to blowing up the team is kind of a stretch.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 24, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it's blowing up the team
I’m saying that it’s not worth it to move up in the draft. If the Grizzlies or Thunder are going to play it that way, Petrie should find another way is my opinion.
I don’t agree. And, you know what? Never forget: I’m a complete idiot.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you said
You don’t destroy your team to accede to other team’s demands
I’m not saying Donté is a throw-in on any deal. But I also don’t understand why you would consider him untouchable in this case.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 24, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's not worth it to make the deal
He’s a future part of your team unless you decide here & now he’s not. Why risk giving up a future integral piece of your team just so you can get Rubio & sell more tickets next season? You don’t.
You don’t accede to other team’s demands here. You just don’t.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's the difference
I don’t see him as an integral part of the future. I think he’s going to be pretty good, and a nice piece to have, but he’ll probably always come off the bench.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 24, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wings are a dime a dozen-
If it take s Donté to get Rubio then I’m all for it. Greene is #3 on the depth chart for the foreseeable future so I’m not sure why Petrie would hesitate. I also think Sam Young could be available at #23 and fit better with this team as a defender, rebounder and athlete. This is all just conjecture, I don’t think Memphis is going to jump at Donté, they already have a load of tweener 3/4 guys in Warrick and Arthur behind Gay so why would he be on the list of players they might want. Teams will push for a big (JT, Hawes) and get rebuked, maybe they settle on Greene instead but I would rather have the #23 whether I’m the Kings or another team.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 25, 2009 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is all just conjecture
That much is without doubt.
As far as Memphis or oKC, why they would consider Donte as a sweetener I have no idea. But, I’ve gone into the argument that they would want Donte on their team.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
I want to learn…really! What are we giving up in any of my proposed deals? Again, if you are not amongst the masses that lust for Rubio, I understand. In that case, any deal if “too much.” But if you want to secure the kid, just what are we giving up?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No more than what you have to
If you’re giving up more than future draft picks, and a switch of players like Jaric/Thomas, then that’s too much IMO.
There is the risk of staying pat yes. But there is also the risk of picking apart a team for a very unfinished product. Rubio is not a guarantee. Yes, he’s more valuable than Brandon Jennings today, but is there a 100% guarantee that he would be 3 years from now? If you’re Petrie do you want to move a Donte Greene, who by the way can play 2 positions at the F spots, and you could argue he has as much talent as any player on the Kings right now, just to move up 2 spots? Sorry. No, I don’t think that’s wise.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So -
It comes down to the value of Donté Greene. One’s value of Greene determines whether these deals are fair or unfair. OK. I can buy that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me it does
You don’t give up Donte to move up and get Rubio from 2 teams that essentially will do everything in their power to extort you. It’s bad business 214.
You wouldn’t allow that in your business would you? (Bad analogy I know.)
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again -
It comes down to where you assess his value. You believe that his value is high enough as to make these deals unfair or not beneficial to the Kings. I love Greene, but I do not see it that way. However, I certainly respect anyone who is of the opinion that he is too much to give away. He’s 20, and there is still a lot to find out about him.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not beneficial to the Kings with the deals as you propose them
Fair or unfair has nothing to do with that. You know that as well as I do.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And here is where I disagree with you -
And I’m going to leave it alone after this.
If one feels that Rubio is a franchise turner, and that Donté is not, the deals are worth making. If not, then not. It is a matter of opinion. It is not the fact that the deal is not beneficial to the Kings just because you feel that way, though I have tremendous respect for your opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the tricky part here 214 is how Petrie plays it
I think it’s how Memphis or OKC tries to get Petrie to bite after letting another team to try and move up that would love to get Rubio.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little late but I feel I should reply
First, as I’ve stated earlier I’m not lusting for Rubio – he has Darko written all over him.
Second, you took a few paragraphs to show just how little it really takes to move up a spot or two and throw out an idea around Portland that does nothing for Memphis with the caveat of not overpaying. Then the first trade idea wildly overpays to move up two spots and is so offensive to sense it made my brain hurt and caused me to log in and comment. The second idea doesn’t cause as much pain, but still flies in the face of the earlier commentary. Maybe I miss the logic if there is any.
Something to realize here – Memphis and OKC have one thing in common with the Kings. They aren’t very good right now. Sure, they may have more potential but they can’t afford to strike out here either. They don’t have that much leverage against the Kings. This is what happens when fans use their loins instead of their heads.
by towndunce on May 24, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Desperation is a confusing emotion
and the Kings are not alone.
As for
This is what happens when fans use their loins instead of their heads
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry but don't understand something
could you explain how Rubio has Darko Milicic written all over him? This isn’t to attack you or anything, I just want to know.
"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas
by submison on May 25, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've mentioned elsewhere I haven't seen a lot of him and I still see some issues
But on top of that, a highly touted, young European player expected to be the second pick of the upcoming draft. Not been seen much by the general public so we are to assume the prognosticators are correct in saying the best prospect to come out of Europe. I dunno, just seems Darko-ish to me.
by towndunce on May 25, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody who doesn't see issues with Rubio is flat out blind
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
Anyone who doesn’t see issues with anyone in the draft is flat out blind. Everyone in the draft has question marks, because so far none of them have laced them up in the L.
That’s a bit of a catch-all statement pookey . . . like saying someone is “not a winner because he hasn’t won yet”.
by smgmatt on May 25, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"...wildly overpays..."
This is where I get stuck – the thought that Donté Greene is “wildly overpaying,” since without his inclusion all you’re really talking about is swapping picks and maybe some contract. So if it comes down to properly valuing Greene, that’s cool. I’d love to see him stay, and I’d love to see him prove you right.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 25, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wildly overpays refers to the first trade
And I’ll stick with that sentiment. Like I mentioned the second one doesn’t pain me as much but, all things considered, I’d rather keep Greene and see if he can become something.
It also goes back to the fact I’m not entirely sold on Rubio…
by towndunce on May 25, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 25, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
another puzzle piece to ponder from now until June 25th
I just went through a host of 2009 mock drafts – about 15 – and what a royal crapshoot. So many opinions, so many experts.
I understand that I am a victim of hype. I know the Kings need talent, a point guard, a star, a jersey to sell (and buy), chemistry and a coach. Having read a host of posts (some mocks have the Kings drafting Paulao Prestes at #23 and Jermaine Taylor at #31 – who the hell???) this is a subject I like to read about but can’t possibly argue about sensibility. I can look at exotic sports cars >$250,000 and be in lust with the Aston Martin over the Ferrari but even the Car and Driver guy can only guess which one is better based on numbers – how it drives depends on the road and the driver.
The point: Is Ricky Rubio a sure thing? If the master talent evaluator, Geoff Petrie and Co. feel that strongly, and they have a chance, even if it meant giving up a core player, I would be in favor. Why? Dwayne Wade and one role player, one promising rookie and one 2nd round rookie were the #5 Eastern conference seed. LeBron James and my high school basketball team (hell, even if it was the same guys all old and slow(er)) would probably win more than 17 games next year. This is a league of stars – we can argue about KMart – but no others are on the current Kings roster.
FIgure out the cost – if it is so much, than wait for the guy to come here, if he makes it and you have to have him, trade for him in three or four years – or take the chance that John Wall or the next “have to have” will be available. Or trade for Mike Conley, Jr.
But if RR is the guy – the future face of your franchise – damn the torpedos and acquire him either now or later.
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG I just read my post
and I think my dream car is

a 1964 Dodge Rambler.
Sorry about the long winded diatribe
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Long winded?
Sheesh. You don’t know what longwinded is bte.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you and I are on different planets on that one
and you what they say: one beings alien is another beings homeboy
Sheesh. You don’t know what longwinded is bte.
In our galaxy of blogging I am a Milky Way asteroid to your planet, I think you are satellite #4 because it is Mars. Now, who is the 7th planet?
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uranus?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Udonis Haslem a lot. I hope he was the role player you were talking about and NOT Jermaine O’Neal.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on May 24, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even consider JON as he joined them late and didn't improve them
Yes, Udonis Haslem is a solid NBA starter, but a role playing starter. Beasley is promising but only that and improved nicely throughout the year as did Mario Chalmers, a pleasant pick up in the second round.
Dwayne Wade carried that team on his back the entire season. That is a superstar.
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in complete agreement with you 214
I don’t give up a core player, but anyone who comes off the bench is fair game. Why? Because we need starters and there don’t appear to be a ton of starters in this draft. Obviously if GP feels differently, in GP we trust. But I will be very disappointed in this draft if our pick is still coming off the bench in two years. If RR has the poetential he seems to have I’d be willing to give anyone but the big three.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
by SavageBeast on May 24, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Marko Jaric
is like Kenny Thomas with a lot better looking old lady.
We’ve only got one more year of Kenny Thomas to get through, and you want to extend the misery? No thanks.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 24, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Marko Jaric
Could be a contributer in limited minutes off the bench. He’s the same type of player as Garcia (ball handling & shooting), only less skilled and not a team leader.
Kenny Thomas will probably never again in his career contribute to an NBA team in any meaningful way except as cap relief.
Yes, we take on an additional two years of Jaric, but if it nets us a franchise player, we would be stupid not to take the deal.
I know you’re not a Rubio fan, but who, then would you want to draft, and what kind of impact would said player have on this team this year? And you can’t count Griffin or Thabeet, because neither will fall to four.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 24, 2009 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Contributor"
We have a lot of those types already. We need a few more real players, not career subs vying for starting roles because we suck.
As for the pick, I’d rather not pick a point guard with it. I’d rather stockpile another talented big man and find our point guard either at 23 or via trade/signing. If we have to take a point guard there, I’d be more inclined to take someone with more athleticism such as Evans.
You’re assuming Rubio will be a franchise player. I think that’s a big, big stretch. And if you’re dying to take Rubio, there’s a great chance he’s going to be there at No. 4. In fact, I think there’s a higher likelihood that Rubio goes fifth or lower than fourth or higher. But maybe I am wrong: maybe Petrie is head over heels in love with the kid and is going to do what it takes to get him.
We also need a small forward at some point. All three of the guys we have are marginal at best. If anything, I’d rather give Greene a shot to see if he has some upside. We know what the other guys bring, and it’s not much. Let’s move along to the future a little quicker.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 24, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All excellent points
Indeed, the trade scenarios that I listed are predicated on the idea that Rubio is the guy that the KIngs want, to the point that they do not want to risk him getting away. If the Kings determine that there is no tangible difference in talent between Rubio and other prospects (and by that, I mean all prospects, including Harden, Hill, DeRozan, Jennings, Evans, etc.), I agree 100% with obtaining the most talented player, regardless of position.
What I have found the most interesting about this thread is the thought that the trade scenarios are too rich. Based on what I had seen in the threads, I would have thought that there would have been a few more people ready to throw more into the deal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm working up my full rebuttal to your points now 214
Hopefully it’ll be up in the next hour or hour & half.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Count me as a supporter of throwing in more
as I elucidated above. I, qualify this with a “In GP I trust” as my abilities to judge talent are of the typical fan with the exception that I admit I know nothing.
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
Rubio is a franchise player out of the gate. But the Kings need a point guard way more than they need another project big man. Or another swing man.
Name me one NBA franchise that has gone deep in the playoffs without a dominant point guard, and I will name five that only made it that far once they got one.
Nobody wins championships on the backs of their small forwards. From my perspective you need two of three things:
1. A dominant point guard
2. A dominant scorer at the 2
3. A dominant big man at the 4 or 5, or a pair of guys that can dominate the other team’s dominant big together.
We have #2. Martin is a scorer, whatever other deficits you perceive in him, you have to admit that. And it’s possible that we’ve got #3 covered as well if JT & Hawes develop the way it appears they will.
And as far as contributors go, every championship team also has contributors coming off the bench. Role players might be a better word for it.
No team dominates at every position. The key is to get the best possible players, then a coach who will exploit the match-ups to our advantage.
Also, Noc & Garcia have not been starters for most of their careers. Maybe we need to see what they can do in that role before writing them off as “marginal at best”.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 25, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LPA
I don’t think Rubio is a franchise player out of the gate.
Now we agree on something. He’s an exciting, but hardly a finished product. Time is his friend, and whatever team that chooses him will have to be very patient.
Good points about Noc, Cisco and Speed as well.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well..
i don’t believe you need a dominant point guard to win a championship, you would need a point guard that’s willing to be a leader.
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Requirements
Name me one NBA franchise that has gone deep in the playoffs without a dominant point guard, and I will name five that only made it that far once they got one.
Unless you view Rajon Rondo as a rookie, Derek Fisher and Jason Williams as dominant point guards, it’s not too hard to find teams to that have won it all without one. So it’s not a requirement.
2. A dominant scorer at the 2
3. A dominant big man at the 4 or 5, or a pair of guys that can dominate the other team’s dominant big together.
We have #2. Martin is a scorer, whatever other deficits you perceive in him, you have to admit that. And it’s possible that we’ve got #3 covered as well if JT & Hawes develop the way it appears they will.
It helps when that dominant scorer can stay healthy and be a force in the closing minutes to deliver wins. Martin is 0-2 on that basis thus far.
As far as No. 3, it’s way too early to tell. It would be nice to add another solid big man to the rotation. Hawes in particular might turn out to be a valuable sub as opposed to a dominant starter.
I don’t see Marko Jaric as a “contributor” to a championship team, but if you do, that’s fine.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 25, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if the Cavalier's win the title this year...
Or does LeBron count as a shooting guard rather than small forward (certainly semantics whichever you’d count him)?
What is magical about shooting guards that makes them able to carry their teams to championships where small forwards don’t?
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on May 26, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So -
You would not pay out an additional $6 million to add Ricky Rubio to your team. Fair enough.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me finish up my big long winded monstrosity 214
I’ll say why I totally disagree. I’m just watching the Magic-Cavs game, and I ain’t missing that for nothing. Besides, I’m too busy chatting it up with 3QC right now. LOL
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think both trade scenarios have merit
Although I have seen very little of Rubio other than highlight reels.
Does he have a scheduled workout with the Kings? If Petrie makes either one of these deals, I’m okay with it. If not, I trust Rubio impressed him less than we might think. There’s a lot of potential out there.
I am a big Lawson fan however, as Pookey pointed out, his wingspan is on the short side for most suceesful PG’s in the NBA. If we can get Rubio in the Gym we might see an increse in athleticism, speed and strength.
Lawson on the otherhand has probably not going to improve too much in these areas and his size may be a detriment.
Jennings is either going to be great or wash out. I don’t see him as a role player off the bench.
Good Post
by nothingbutnet on May 24, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
With all due respect 214
I disagree with your trade scenerios .I disagree with giving up ANYTHING for unproven Rubio , when unproven Jennings will be available . I think Jennings workout will be huge in Petries eyes . IMO Jennings is a superior b-ball player by NBA standards ,with the only advantage(slight) for Rubio would be court vision . I can see a Petrie quote coming soon.."sometimes the best move is to not make a move ’ ….Here’s my personal fun facts on Rubio….
Turnover prone? yes
A scorer ? no
Injury prone? mayby..we’ll see
Frail ? yes
NBA strenth and body ? nope
Athletic ? not in his dna
Able to withstand NBA season ? we’ll see
Plays below the rim ? yep
Male pattern baldness? nope
6th grade shooting mechanics? yep
Could pass for a Jonas brother? yep
by hectic2 on May 24, 2009 5:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You had me, you lost me
I agree 100% with the thought that Jennings (or Evans, or Lawson, or Holiday, or HIll, or Harden, or whomever your prefer) and the “assets” that I listed are better than the listed deals. For example, Jennings, and #23 > than Rubio #25. That’s valid.
Where I disagree is your need to bash Rubio when you could just as easily say many of the same things about Jennings (and be just as wrong). This is where you left the reservation the last time – your need go overboard (come on – 6th grade shooting mechanics? tunover prone?). In trying to prove your point, you completely cheapen the solid point that you made in the first paragraph.
On the other hand, you are entitled to your opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly the problem I have with hectic
I like Jennings and think he’ll have a good NBA career. I just think Rubio will have a better one. But he continuously fails to show why he considers Jennings better other than listing things he can’t prove, and instead simply bashes Rubio.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on May 24, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just my opinion Aykis
However ,i think some things are just common knowledge such as athletic ability ,scoring ability ect… I think the same reverse argument could be made on why you think Rubio will be better and how can you prove it
I think thier both unproven with Rubio having a couple more question marks than Jennings(imo) ..which takes me back to my original point . I wouldn’t give up anything for an unproven ,when we have an unproven in our pocket .But thats just me…Who knows what GP is thinking
by hectic2 on May 24, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK 214 ,i tend to go overboard
The 6th grade mechanics comment was a bit much ,but i shot the ball like that in the 6th grade .The turnover prone thing IMO is valid .The other stuff ,yes was over the top .
Just to clear the air ,i dont dislike Rubio .I just wouldn’t be willing to give anything up to get him .If he somehow fell to #4 ,then i’d be ok with it . However i just prefer more athlectic PG’s
by hectic2 on May 24, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with athletic PGs
Is that they tend to want to create for themselves instead of being playmakers for their teammates.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just a different type of player.
I would like to see us with a PG that is more like Nash, who can shoot, but prefers to make plays for his teammates.
And Rubio can shoot, though it’s not his greatest strength. But he’s 18 and has amazing court vision, which is an innate ability. Shooting mechanics can be drilled into a player.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on May 24, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
When you look at the players on our roster it seems clear to me that Rubio or a PG like him would fit well.
No matter who you’re talking about they can all shoot… Martin, Nocioni, Garcia, Greene, Beno (while he’s still in Sac), and even Hawes can all knock down a 3.
We all know these won’t be the last either. GP ALWAYS gets guys who may not be able to do a single thing well other than shoot… But they CAN shoot, lol!!! A true pass-first PG should KILL on a team like this.
So for me, the one thing we need no matter the cost is to get a PG who can get the ball to these guys in the right spots. Kevin Martin is a prime example of a guy who isn’t all that great at creating a shot but can move without the ball and score if he gets it when he wants it… Think back to when he was on the floor with Bibby & Peja at the same time.
Now in regard to trading Donte Greene? I think he’s expendable. There is space for him if you have Garcia run the 2. But at some point either Greene, Garcia or Noc will have to go.
So for me, I would prefer to see Donte go ahead of K9 at the draft. And before you all lose it on me: It’s only because I know K9’s contract is likely our BEST trade chip come deadline. Doesn’t matter who the team is, they’ll all want his expiring contract. Which means we could be players in any deal that comes up.
Just my opinion…
by tlfairgo on May 24, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great points
I’ve said it before. The reason why I think Rubio fits in this team is because he’s different from what we already have. We don’t need a big scorer, we need someone who will give high percentage looks to his teammates. To me, Rubio can do that. He can get the ball to JT and Hawes and get them easy layups and dunks. He can find Speed nd Cisco for open looks. He can make everyone else in this team better.
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I with you LPA-
I would like to add to this:
nd Rubio can shoot, though it’s not his greatest strength. But he’s 18 and has amazing court vision, which is an innate ability. Shooting mechanics can be drilled into a player.
Rubio is the center of the universe on his team, acting as a distributor first, a slasher second. In all the video I have watched, I have yet to see a big man pass out to Rubio for an open jumper or a real high pick and roll scenario with the second player having a high level of skill. I think the European game has its advantages but I don’t think we have seen the true level of skill that Rubio possesses. Rubio is averaging 10 points (42.3% from 3pt), 6.1 assists and 2.2 steals in only 23 minutes a game in the Euro league. If he can even come close to those numbers as a rookie in 28-30 minutes then I think the Kings will be just fine.
FYI- Draft Express has now moved Rubio to the 4 pick, so maybe GP doesn’t have to give up anything to land the guy we want.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 24, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Petrie doesn't have to move up
Because Memphis & OKC don’t want to deal with him, that’s a win-win for Petrie. We don’t have to deal with that. That’s an ideal scenario for us as Kings fans all the way.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 24, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All that hype means some is scheming something
and my best bet is that getting Rubio won’t be either cheap or easy.
Maybe we could use this guidebook

This is a very big challenge for Petrie. He usually works under the radar as he has the luxury of cloak of late lottery (or beyond) picks.
I almost get the feeling the guy relishes defying the mock drafts. This draft has him unnaturally exposed to scrutiny. If he believes that Ricky Rubio hung the moon he will have at least 15-20 other GMs who have seen and evaluated and have glimpsed the light. They will compete for that guy and let’s face it, they may have more to offer.
by betweentheeyes on May 24, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the perfect scenario
My concern would be that if Rubio’s people know he’s falling to 4 they may advise him to pull out of the draft because how much he’s gonna get paid is not going to be enough to pay for his buyout.
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going to pull out if he is slated to go to the Kings.
Every team is hampered by the $500,000 rule when it comes to enticing him to play here and there isn’t really that much of a difference between 2nd and 4th financially so its a pretty even playing field.. Rubio is using the cash consideration as leverage to keep away from two not so cool places to live in Memphis and OKC. I fully expect Nike to jump in and pay this guy big cash so he doesn’t have to worry about the $$$. Rubio has the ability to be an international star, if nothing else, every kid in Spain and Portugal will be sporting their new RR’s the day they come out on the market.
Rubio wants to go where he will, A). Start. B). be a focal point of an offense. C). has a chance to succeed eventually. The Kings fit every single one of these criteria points. Would you rather play next to bulk shooters in OJ Mayo/Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant or Kevin Martin? I think the answer is Kevin Martin because he moves without the ball, he shoots well from anywhere on the floor, he doesn’t dribble out the clock and he he is the most efficient scoring perimeter player in the league. I think I can also make the arguement that the Kings have better post players overall when compared to Memphis and OKC which will also be a major factor.
I typically don’t like guys who force teams to trade or pass on talent but Rubio is a special situation- he has to pay to play in the NBA. Whether the money comes out of his own pocket or team Nike, it is still money that would have found itself into Rubio’s bank account. I fear he won’t be around at #4 but by hook or by crook, I want this guy in a Kings uni next season.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 25, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Rubio pulls out of the draft
It’s because he didn’t get the endorsement he was looking for to make his buyout happen.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
JJ and Pookie
I’m all for that and after reading the DX article and Abbot’s article and more than excited that this could actually happen.
I have a question though, to anyone that may know. Aside from his contract, is it possible for the Kings to pay for his accomodations (ex. housing, transportation) and other day-to-day expenses he may have. I ask this because I remember someone pointing out how his contract couldn’t all go to the buyout because he would obviously also need money to pay for those kinds of things. I’m not sure if there’s a rule that prohibits the Maloofs to help with that.
The endorsement money may be more than enough but I was just thinking about this the other day so I’d be curious to find out…
by eduardo_m7 on May 25, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Kings can't do anything about it
It’s just that they aren’t likely to do so. You pay a player to play basketball, and his contractual situation is up to him.
There is no way that Nike won’t give him the money for the buyout up front. Especially if they want him long term as an European salesman.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone thought that maybe the Clipper's might be trying to trade the #1?
It’s strange for a team to come out so early and say, “We’re taking Griffin, no question.” Why show your hand like that unless you want others to know that if they want Griffin, they have to go through the Clipper’s.
With that said, I’d trade JT and #4 for Griffin. Then pick up a PG, with a PG deep draft with the second pick.
by cbsf on May 24, 2009 11:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No
No, and no.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 24, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can I add an exta 'no' or is it too late?
by eduardo_m7 on May 24, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
it is too late
but negatory, nuh-uh, and the hand signal with your arms crossed are still available
by betweentheeyes on May 25, 2009 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
/makes the sign of the cross
it is ordained so.
by betweentheeyes on May 25, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are all the “no’s” that the Clippers wouldn’t want to trade, or that nobody would want to give up Jason Thompson to do it?
If it’s just the latter, I think it’s crazy to think Griffin is not a huge upgrade from Jason Thompson. Sure, Jason Thompson is great. He’s likable, he plays hard, and he’s talented. But Griffin is beyond that. He’s an immediate game changer that has the potential to be a consistent all-star (something the Kings seriously lack). I think if you are serious about turning this team around, you have to take some risks at landing a GREAT player, and that means giving something up in return.
Sometimes I think Sacramento fans have the tendency to over-emphasize personality/likability of a player. I think that’s also what’s going on with Donte Greene, too. It’s crazy not to make a trade for Ricky Rubio just because you don’t want to give up Donte Greene. It’s a moderate risk, but a HUGE reward.
I guess it comes down to comparing Griffin’s potential vs. Jason Thompson’s potential and Rubio’s potential vs. Greene’s potential. I’ll take Griffin and Rubio every time, and make that trade in a heart beat.
by cbsf on May 25, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
It’s like packaging a No. 4 and a No. 12 for a No. 1 pick.
Griffin is by far the most polished prospect in the draft. I like JT, but I’d rather have Griffin. Actually, I’d love to have them both and/or at add Hill to the mix if possible.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 25, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are not suggesting JT straight for Griffin
You are suggesting JT AND possibly a player out of Rubio, Jennings, Lawson, Evans, Curry, or other, for Griffin. I’m not giving up those two assets for Griffin… no way in hell
by eduardo_m7 on May 25, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
as much as I want to believe that Griffin and Rubio
are different versions of the second coming – I am not buying it. Before he was drafted 3rd the Tarheel from North Carolina was considered a great prospect – not a can’t miss. Chris Paul was drafted #4.
Franchise labeled can’t miss status can not be placed on any one in this draft.
by betweentheeyes on May 25, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
There are no guarantees either will be a franchise player. But I think the risk is worth the gain. Look at the four teams still in the playoffs. Each one has a superstar on their team:
Lakers: Kobe
Nuggets: Anthony
Cavs: Lebron
Magic: Howard
In the NBA today, a team has to have a player of this caliber to win it all. Jason Thompson and Donte Greene will never be as good as these players. While it is very far from guaranteed, Ricky Rubio and Blake Griffin MAY be these types of players. I’d take the risk.
Eduardo, you’re right. You’d be giving up Jason Thompson and the 4th pick for Griffin. I guess you’d have to take the bet that after the first or second pick, the talent pool takes a sharp decline to make that decision.
by cbsf on May 25, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying to figure out the moves that the Clippers make can lead to severe brain damage
Just say no.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 25, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading for Rubio
seriously his manager wants him in LA? reality check thats the freakin clippers… didnt petrie go to europe to scout him a couple of times? and memphis is just doing it now? i really hope petrie was able to contact and talk to rubios manager and are in good terms..
any info about that?
one of the possible scenarios we do with memphis is
trade
4th pick, 31st, donte, kenny thomas for 2 and jaric.
we can grab another wing player with the 23rd like omri casspi or who ever we can. cause im not honestly sold on dontes skill set yet.
by einadin on May 25, 2009 1:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Deal!
Here’s one more thing pretty important thing to consider. If and when Ricky Rubio should don a purple and black Kings uni the Maloof boys are gonna hear one of their favorite sounds: cash registers going KA-CHING KA-CHING.
There will be fired up fansbuying tickets to Arco wearing Rubio jerseys. Many of them will be coming for the first time ever. And money flowing back into the coffers of Maloof Sports could help secure this franchise’s future in Sacramento, which right now is not a sure thing. At all.
No other player in this draft can light a fire under the ass of this franchise like Ricky Rubio would, and if we can’t shake things up around here pronto, some of you will be rooting for Brandon Jennings and Donte’ Greene of the Las Vegas Kings.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 25, 2009 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or the Anaheim Kings
Last time I was in La-La Land they were talking about the Kings playing there next year like they were already printing the tickets.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on May 25, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Clippers and Lakers have signed off on this?
The Honda Center and The Staples Center are about 35-40 miles apart. Both the Lakers and Clips would probably have to sign off on the move, after extracting 100’s of millions from the Maloof’s for giving up territorial rights. All for the right to move to a place that is a Laker hot bed.
Uh-uh.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 25, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and your sold on Omri Casspi skill set?
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 2:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually,
I’d take a long look at a guy like Sam Young with that pick. Seems like he’ll be there.
Smart young player, athletic, very strong defender. We could use some of that.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 25, 2009 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they should just go BPA
this team needs all the talent they can get
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 2:25 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree, lucky
I think we pretty much have to go that route, especially with those later picks.
I do think Sam Young could be a nice NBA player though. I know zilch about Omri Casspi…
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on May 25, 2009 2:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will just rely on who gp picks at the 23rd pick when it comes to replacing greene.. i havent seen much of him this year to be convinced he is a key to our future…
about omri casspi and other euro gems.. well just have to rely on petrie finding another hedo or peja.
rubio needs to consider how petrie made stars out of peja and hedo.. and how sacramento treated the likes of vlade etc. come here rubio!! would you want to be a “BEAR” in the woods.. or a KING
by einadin on May 25, 2009 2:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sam Young's nice...
but, is he sexy enough for ailene voisin?
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 2:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and...
i don’t think Petrie made Peja and Hedo stars, he just picked them, the old system made Peja a star, and Hedo became a star-like player in orlando
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 2:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Petrie didn't make them stars, he plucked them from a giant pile of players....
many of which either stay in Europe or become total busts in the NBA. Petrie found one of the best pure shooters the NBA has ever seen and drafted him as a 19 year old when a super star college player in John Wallace would have been a much more popular choice. Hedo took a while to develop but now he is the main offensive cog for a team vying for the championship. Petrie can pick players- Euro’s and Americans alike.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 25, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hedo is not the main offensive cog in Orlando
Sorry, but I can’t agree with that. He’s the 3rd option on the floor for Orlando a bunch of the time, especially if Jameer Nelson is on the floor. Love Hedo and how he plays for Orlando (the Magic are my playoff team this year), but saying Hedo is above Lewis, Nelson or Howard as an option shows ignorance. No mas JJ!
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PG - you have to admit that in the current Cavs/Magic series
Hedo has been the Magic’s go to guy.
by betweentheeyes on May 25, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Shoting – points for 3 games of Cavs/Magic series
Howard: 22/36 – 64
Lewis: 20/36 – 60
Hedo: 14/39 – 49
Pretty even distribution of shots, but Hedo does handle the ball late in games and has made some clutch shots. He’s one of 3, but I wouldn’t call him the main guy.
Should be noted that Orlando leads 2-1 even though Hedo has pretty much sucked. He did have two very big shots in the one loss, but he hasn’t played well.
Also, for the playoffs Hedo is averaging 14.6 while Howard and Lewis are both at 19.9.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on May 25, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's playing well
But he’s not shooting well.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hedo is their go to guy in clutch situations though.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on May 25, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah sometimes he is
But he’s not the main offensive cog of the Magic. He’s one of their best players no doubt, and one of their main offensive players no doubt. But, in terms of importance, I’d rank him below Howard, Nelson and Lewis. Personal opinion.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 25, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Nelson isn't on the floor
and Rafer Alston isn’t their style. Howard and Lewis are the big guns on that team, but Turk is extremely important to their team because he runs the whole offense. I will say this, if they didn’t have Turk on the team right now then the Magic would be getting swept.
However they would also be getting swept without Rashard, so I see where your coming from.
by jstnblke41 on May 25, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think the best compliment you can give Hedo
is, with Nelson out, he makes most of Orlando’s decisions when it matters.
He may not be their “main offensive cog”, but he has been the brains behind Orlando’s offense in a lot of the games I’ve seen.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on May 26, 2009 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that
Nice new sig btw.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pookey-
Hedo has 25 assists in 3 games versus Cleavland. If you have watched any of their playoff games you would agree that Hedo is the main cog. Howard still has limited offensive moves, Lewis doesn’t create his own shot and the rest of this team is pretty marginal. The offense is running through Hedo on almost every possession and it is Hedo that LaBron James is guarding in most sets. I take offense to your “ignorance” claim, just because other players take more shots than Hedo doesn’t mean he isn’t the main cog. Watch the games Pook.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 26, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch the games?
Pssshhhhhh. That would take effort.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you were man enough you would watch the tape
by eduardo_m7 on May 26, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet more proof of why I'm a fat bitch
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all in the tape
All you gotta do is open your eyes and see it’s David Stern’s fault….
Wait…. wrong thread
by eduardo_m7 on May 26, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree with that
He has been facilitating for them as well, which would fit a definition of “main cog”. I had defined it as main scorer when reading your post and disagreed with that.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on May 26, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not just that..
i think he’s been the main distributor for them.
by luckybastard on May 25, 2009 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Day Late & Dollar Short; here's my $0.02
This comment grew too large to keep as a comment, so you can find it here.
by smgmatt on May 25, 2009 11:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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