Successful structure of an NBA roster and the Kings
The following is far from being a deep analysis and it is easy to be argued against. Still, even a bit of coincidence might serve as a background for a subsequent discussion that would be worthy... And it was fun to write it anyway.
A)
I took a look at what the four conference finalists, or at least most of them have in common in terms of their rosters structure. And I found the following:
- Point-forward (Hedo, Lebron, Kobe/bits of Gasol, bits of Anthony)
- Defensive-minded athletic swingman (Pietrus, Lebron, Dahntay Jones, Ariza)
- Low-post threat (Howard, Gasol/Bynum/, bits of Nene/Martin. None in Cleveland)
- Pointguard who can shoot very well but otherwise is rather a role-player than a leader (Alston /at times, but normally it would be Nelson here/, Fisher, Williams. Billups is a leader as well)
- Long-range shooters (half of Orlando's roster, half of Cleveland's roster, Billups/Smith/Anthony/Kleiza, Fisher/Bryant/Vujacic)
- Slasher (Lee/Pietrus, James, Smith/Jones/Anthony, Ariza/Bryant/Odom)
- Defensive-minded big ma/en on the bench (Gortat, Andersen, Wallace/Smith, none in LA)
- Well-rebounding swingman (Hedo, James, Bryant, Anthony)
B)
There were some issues that were characteristic only for the finalists:
- Combo-forward who can play beyond the arc but has the height and skills to play near the basket and even defend the rim - creating a huge mismatches for their opponents (Lewis, Odom)
- Offense based on the ball movement and (although selective at times) inclusion of all players - without a black hole on the offensive end.
C)
Finally, what neither team has:
- Pointguard as the on-court/statistic leader of the team (Paul, Williams, Nash, Parker... all have been eliminated. Billups is the leader of Denver, however he is credited probably more for being a leader literally, than a go-to guy)
- Athletic pointguard (Jordan Farmar and Mo Williams are the closest kind)
- Exceptionally defensively capable pointguard (maybe except of Billups and Fisher's flopping)
- Swingman who is a bad defender playing in the starting-five (it's difficult to count Hedo as a swingman and his defense is not that bad. Delonte West might be the closest example)
***
It would be probably easy to argue against any of those points and it is seemingly even easier to argue against any consequences they might bring for an evaluation of the current Kings roster. Still, I will go point by point and try to compare them with the current Kings roster as well as the 2002 roster.
A1)
Kings09 - none
Kings02 - none, but with talented passer both among big men and guards, the role was evenly distributed between inside and outside players.
A2)
Kings09 - Garcia at best (?)
Kings02 - Doug Christie
A3)
Kings09 - JT, possibly Spencer
Kings02 - Vlade&C-Webb
A4)
Kings09 - Probably none. Beno is not a bad shooter, but far from very good, especially from beyond the arc
Kings02 - Mike Bibby fits exactly
A5)
Kings09 - Kevin Martin, possibly Garcia, Nocioni (Donté?)
Kings02 - Peja, but also Bibby, and even Hedo and Christie
A6)
Kings09 - Martin
Kings02 - Probably none, but again, in the Princeton offense, the movement without the ball was more important
A7)
Kings09 - none
Kings02 - Scott Pollard
A8)
Kings02 - Actually Peja had an avareage of 5.6 rebounds per game between 2000-2006 while Christie had an average over 4 in each of his seasons in Sacramento (and the career high of 15 rebounds)
Kings09 - TZ gave an analysis recently showing Martin as a good rebounder for the SG position and Cisco being a very bad rebounder for the SF position.
B1)
Kings09 - Nocioni as a poor example
Kings02 - Healthy Peja as a kind of...
B2)
Kings09 - not yet
Kings02 - definitely
Now, although these nine points might be really very selective and coincidental sample of what characterize the four most successful teams of this year, there is a resemblance between those and the roster of Sacramento from 2002 while many differences arise when compared to the current roster.
When taking look at final four points, three of them are interesting in terms of drafting a possible replacement for Beno for the PG position. Three issues that Rubio is criticized for lacking (being a scorer, athletic and on-ball defensively-excellent) are generally absent in the game of four starting pointguards I discuss. Williams is a scorer, but appears to be such rather as a sidekick and role-player than an actual leader on the floor. Billups is an exception and he is also a very good defender, but his athleticism (apart from strength) cannot match speedy pointguards such as Paul, Parker, Rose, Rondo... However, he is doing pretty well because of his experience and basketball-IQ nevertheless. Neither Alston/Nelson nor Fisher are particularly athletic, dominating or defensively-capable players in this league.
Of course, this is a point for Rubio as a counter-argument against those deterioring him on behalf of athletic superstars such as Brandon Jennings. Of course, it's just a selective point and just because Denver, Orlando, Cleveland and LA can do well without Jennings-type of player, it does not mean it would not help other top-tier teams (and recent examples of Parker or Rondo demonstrate this).
The fourth point is thus more about Kevin Martin who is usually characterized as a tremendous scorer and substandard defender (he would probably be the worst defending swingman among the four teams). Which leads to an issue of hope that after recovering from the ankle-injury and with more experiences this aspect of his game will improve yet even more.
***
I am lazy and having no time to back-up (or actually explore for by myself) any of these argument further but any ideas would be welcomed.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
3 recs |
34 comments
Comments
Very interesting read
I love thought experiments like these, so thanks for doing the heavy lifting and putting this together. That said, I’m afraid (for the Kings at least) that it’s a lot more simple than that. You need 1 superstar + the right mix of complementary stars and role players.
I do appreciate your points about Beno. I think if he was not earning a ridiculous contract then most would be OK with his production, if he could at least be consistent and limit the turnovers.
I think the bigger issue is that this team simply lacks talent. A flawed scoring-only shooting guard is our best player and go-to-guy. If Kevin steps up his D, develops some clutch play, we’ll have a chance. But we need development from Hawes and/or Thomspon into a post threat. Still need an alpha male, one who could take over games when the offense and system bogs down in the final minutes, making his teammates better along the way. Perhaps that could be a point guard, but most recent finals teams (Kidd’s Nets aside) were not built this way.
by LPKingsFan on May 31, 2009 5:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Although thinking more on PGs
Parker was critical to the most recent Spurs title team as well.
by LPKingsFan on May 31, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thompson might be thae "Alpha Male" you are looking for.
I think the Kings need direction. Whether it be a coach or an on-court leader, this team needs a Phil Jackson, George Karl, LaBron James, Chancey Billups, Hedo, Kobe etc. someone to lean on when shit goes wrong- someone to make things go right.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Jun 1, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right mix
1 superstar + the right mix of complementary stars and role players won’t cut it (see Cleveland). Need 1 superstar ( Kobe/Howard) + 1 all star (Gasol/Lewis)+ 1 could have been an all star on another team (Oden/Hedo) + the right mix of complementary and role players.
by setvet on Jun 1, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can win with one star
Cleveland’s problem is they have Lebron and everyone else is a low end starter. They would be a championship team if they could fill in one, maybe two more mid level starters.
by bignerd on Jun 1, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definately some interesting points
made here. I would tend to agree w/ LP that successful teams have a superstar and the right complementary players around them, which is something that the four teams in the conference finals had this year.
"I'm too weird ta live but much too rare ta die"
by aKingisBored on May 31, 2009 6:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your point KFfCE
That you need a well rounded team. That’s why this team isn’t as good as it was before. That team had few weaknesses (mainly rebounding; sometimes uneven effort—former cost them at title, and the latter came with having lots of talent) overall.
I think if the Kings can focus on getting a PG who can really run the team, and possibly be it’s best player, the Kings will improve. It’s not like the Kings won’t have another choice of players with wherever they select in 2010 as well.
I’m looking forward to the year honestly. It’s looking to be a pretty good type of year.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 31, 2009 7:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
shocking suprise
you think we need a PG?
Just who might you favor?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 1, 2009 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ricky Rubio Tyreke Evans Brandon Jennings
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 1, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not be unhappy with Jrue Holiday Jonny Flynn or Ty Lawson
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 1, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
Thaabbbbeeeeeettttttttttttt???!!!!!!!!!
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 1, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was gonna list him next
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 1, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So pretty much any
of the top ranked PGs in this years draft? Not that I would mind getting any of these guys.
"I'm too weird ta live but much too rare ta die"
by aKingisBored on Jun 1, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It ain't an accident that many of the draft's best players are PG's
A guy like Thabeet isn’t that big of a deal to me. Even if he turns into Mutombo, that is not the only thing this team needs. It is very far away from a finished product, and umm, there are other years to get quality defenders. This team has a gaping hole at PG with a reasonable chance of filling it for the long term. You take that chance.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 1, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A real Head Coach
would be a welcome addition
by betweentheeyes on Jun 1, 2009 12:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yes, but the teams that have won this season and most
are teams who can generate points down low even in bad games.
Makes coaching a lot simpler in the tough stretches
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 1, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No point in this
Teams are successful in many fashions. I do not think the Kings should try to fit any form but only build till they are at the top of league, as any team should. Look at the Celtics last year, and teams for past decades. You mold a team until the team does well. Basketball is a great sport because you can only try predict how a team’s chemistry develops. I think this was a great read and had interesting points, but I’m still a firm believer in not trying to fit the molds of what is successful but the pragmatic steps of what it takes to still be playing this thursday.
by SugaB on Jun 1, 2009 8:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you here
there is no “right” way to build a team. Although the Clippers showed us very clearly that there is a wrong way.
"I'm too weird ta live but much too rare ta die"
by aKingisBored on Jun 1, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Earl Clarke
would be the best fit to help the Kings fill the most holes in their roster with 1 player if you’re analysis is correct.
by Smills91 on Jun 1, 2009 8:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Eric Maynor
fits the bill of the PG type you describe.
by Smills91 on Jun 1, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hey Smills91
hit me up with an email mikemurray33@yahoo.com
by mike murray on Jun 1, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hate to dumb this down
but once again, the teams with the best bigs are going to the title game.
by jstnblke41 on Jun 1, 2009 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea that Kobe guy doesn't do much.
Andrew Bynum is one of the most overrated Centers ever.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 1, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lakers aren't there because they have the best bigs.
They are there because they have the most talent everywhere. Gasol is a part of that, but Kobe is where it starts.
by Charlieb on Jun 1, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
just making an observation that the teams that win always have all-star big men save for MJ’s Bulls.
by jstnblke41 on Jun 1, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
Its not that simple and there are exceptions but
thats the formula that shows consistant success.
We have only two young, possily not physical enough, somewhat promising, with questionable All-Star potential, level bigs.
help please
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 1, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is a point to be made
about the formula for a contender. Versatile bigs and athletic wings, stretch shooters and a floor general who doesn’t have to be the star – every one true. In the end, the teams that are in the championship hunt have a bonafide star. No way around it. No stud, no ring.
There’s no stud to add this year, as far as we can honestly tell. So add the best complimentary piece. I agree that it would be Rubio. If you think you’re going to find the stud in the muck, maybe DeRozan or Evans.
Regarding bigs, the best bigs don’t go to the title. Only the great bigs go to the title. There aren’t many great bigs by decade. Therefore, the great players go to the title. And none of them get there without the cast. Thus, Jordan, Zeke, Dr. J, Kobe.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
by left hand on Jun 1, 2009 1:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Delonte West
is actually credited for his D.
Everything else, I mostly agree with. Every team has a different formula I think for bulding the pieces around the Star. But you have to start with the Star and build around that (Lebron, Melo,Kobe,Howard).
Very rarely do “teams” win (in the NBA game) or even make it to the title. Maybe the Pistons, and Pacers. But they had a lot of great “All-Star” type talents on the same team in their primes together so it worked. The great teams of this decade have been the Spurs (which had Duncan, and to a lesser extent Parker and Ginobli) but they all played TOGETHER, and within a system and at times the roleplayers were almost as important (Bowen, Horry) as the three-stars and the Pistons, which had Billups, Hamilton, and Wallace as the “big-three” and then defensive minded role-players from that point on (Prince, B. Wallace) its just a perfect storm for some teams.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jun 1, 2009 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ben Wallace
was an all-star on the Pistons. But I agree with your point.
Every team has a different formula I think for bulding the pieces around the Star. But you have to start with the Star and build around that.
"I'm too weird ta live but much too rare ta die"
by aKingisBored on Jun 1, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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