Positional Rankings, or How I Still Fear This Year's Draft
It’s been some time since my last foray into the world of Sactown Royalty Fanposts. My last entry was about How to Avoid a Draft Bust, and I tagged it with the ominous subtitle "how I learned to fear this year’s draft."
Well, that was January. A lot has changed since then and… actually not much has changed. I still fear this draft. I still think James Harden is a future NBA roleplayer and Rubio’s lack of athleticism scares me to death. But hey – the guy can just flat out play, right? Um….. Right?
In order for that joke to make sense and to explain where I’m coming from with the rankings, here is a brief rundown of my drafting philosophy as expressed more extensively in that old post:
1. Avoid guys who are underathletic and/or undersized but who pundits say “can just flat out play."
2. Raw upside guys: a) must be athletic; b) SGs and SFs need to be able to shoot and have a handle; c) bigs must have good hands; d) point guards have to be very quick and either really good at scoring or really good at passing.
3. Watch out for the unmotivated
In the hopes that posterity will either remember me as an anonymous basketball savant or, much more likely, as an unadulterated idiot, I thought I would provide some draft capsules on this year’s crop of players for everyone to argue over.
Positional rankings, point guard to center. Here they come...
Point Guard.
1. Jeff Teague. Yeah. I said it! Jeff. Teague. Not Rubio, not Jennings. Jeff "1/1 assist to turnover ratio" Teague. Here’s what you need to know about Jeff Teague. The guy is one of the quickest, most athletic point guard prospects that has come into the league in the last few years. He’s got great size for the PG position. He can get into the lane and shoot floaters or dunk over people. He’s also a deadeye shooter. WHEN HAS THAT NOT WORKED? Ask Monta Ellis how that worked out. Then tell him that scooters are for girls.
2. Ricky Rubio. Why is he not #1? I’m sorry, he’s just not that quick, and this is an era when NBA point guards are faster than ever. In the absolute bestest of best scenarios, Ricky Rubio is an athletically limited, great-passing, decent defending point guard who you can’t really count on to score. Which, okay, hello Mark Jackson or post-prime Jason Kidd. Is that worth trading up to #2 or praying that Rubio doesn’t pull a Fran Vasquez for the next two years? In the meantime, it remains to be seen if he can keep up with NBA point guards, he turns the ball over too much, and he can't shoot unless completely set and wide open. He's got a long way to go in the best case scenario. Stop Photoshopping Ricky desktop images: Rubio skeptics unite! You have nothing to lose but your man crush.
3. Stephen Curry. The most surprising thing about Stephen Curry isn’t that the NBA could actually have a girlier looking player than Tyronn Lue. Nope. If you watched Davidson this season you know what I’m talking about: Stephen Curry is actually a pretty amazing passer. The quickness deficit remains. But with that passing mixed with his scoring ability, Curry could “just flat out play” himself into a pretty incredible pick & roll point guard. And then give up ten thousand points on the other end. This guy is destined to play for Mike D’Antoni or Don Nelson. Or, uh, Geoff Petrie.
4. Brandon Jennings. Have you seen the TV show version of Friday Night Lights? There’s this character in the first season called Voodoo Tatum who is a Katrina refugee and he interviews potential coaches in a hotel rooms where they pledge to give his family houses and money if he’ll play for their team. Then he screws over the Dillon High team and bolts. Brandon Jennings may be a talented, athletic, raw point guard prospect. I can’t shake the image of Voodoo Tatum.
5. Jonny Flynn. I really want to like Flynn more than I do. On paper everything checks out. He’s 6’0”, he’s tough, he’s quick, he showed some clutchness late in the season. But he’s not that great of a shooter, not that great of a passer, not that great of a scorer, and he has a bit of Jason Williams in him when it comes to his decisionmaking. It’s really tough to make it as a point guard in the NBA, and there’s something about Flynn's inability to really stand out in any one or two facets of the game that makes me feel like he’s destined to disappoint relative to where he'll be chosen.
Others:
Darren Collison. You know what you’re getting with Collison. Good quickness, good passing, good defense, good floor leadership. Nothing special. Probably destined to be a career backup. That’s not a bad thing at #23.
Ty Lawson. I liked him better when he was more talented and his name was Ray Felton.
Eric Maynor. Sean Singletary wants his career trajectory back.
Patty Mills. Quick quick quick. Streaky streaky streaky. Let someone else draft him let someone else draft him let someone else draft him. TJ Ford or Marcus Banks. Flip a coin.
Jrue Holiday. I want this guy’s publicist. He showed absolutely nothing at UCLA to justify a 1st Round Pick, let alone lottery consideration. It makes no sense whatsoever. Let's move on.
Shooting Guard.
1. Tyreke Evans. If you can imagine a spectrum of John Salmons to Brandon Roy… Evans is somewhere in there. He’s similar to those guys in that he needs to have the ball to be effective. But is he more Salmons, needing to pound the ball and somewhat limited athletically but really crafty penetrating? Or can he be Roy, deadly crunch time player and a killer passer? Tough to say. He doesn't have great size, but Evans has some serious talent with the ball, he's got crazy long arms, and he's athletic enough that I think he's got the best chance at stardom out of this class of shooting guards. I also really don't think he's a point guard.
2. James Harden. In the annals of NBA Draft combine history, the nugget that James Harden scored a higher vertical leap than Dwyane Wade surely does more than anything else to invalidate the entire exercise. Harden has some definite strengths: he's a surprisingly good finisher, he's got good all-around skill, he's a solid passer, and very few bearded players in NBA history have been busts. However, his weaknesses are also manifold: he's undersized, he's not that quick, he can't go right, he's not a great leaper (sorry combine), he's not great at creating his own shot, he doesn't have great elevation on his jumper, and he has an unfortunate last name. Ultimately, when I add up the strengths and subtract the minuses, I'm left with one conclusion: NBA roleplayer. How many undersized AND underathletic guards are stars in the NBA? Honestly. He'll give you some good minutes, but you're going to be crying in a few years if you think he's going to be a star.
3. DeMar DeRozan. DeMar DeRozan is the type of player who can jump out of the gym in a combine test but you might go an entire game without seeing evidence of freakish athleticism. He's definitely athletic, but he's not a Gerald Wallace type player who shows it constantly on the floor. Instead he's more of a midrange player with a shaky handle and is streaky from outside. DeRozan has both outsized talent and outsized bust potential.
4. Jodie Meeks. Let's talk about this for a moment. Of the undersized SGs left on the board, does anyone really think that Gerald Henderson and Wayne Ellington are better than Jodie Meeks? If so, please find a tape of Meeks against Tennessee when he exploded for 50+ points, and, oh yeah, also had 8 rebounds and 4 assists. Or maybe the one against Arkansas where he had 45/7. Meeks might not make it as a pro because he's undersized, but take Henderson and Ellington out of the state of North Carolina and we wouldn't even be talking about them. Meeks can score from everywhere. He was basically Kentucky's entire offense and he still scored like crazy. He's got some limitations, but he's the best candidate in the draft to be the next Anthony Morrow. Which would be totally fine relative to where he'll be drafted.
5. Terrence Williams. I like Terrence Williams a lot. He's tough, he's athletic, he can rebound, he has a lot of skills. Unfortunately, scoring the basketball is not one of those skills. You have to be REALLY awesome as a glue guy to stay on the floor as an NBA guard if you can't score, and no one has any idea what kind of man defense Williams plays because Lousiville zones. Williams seems like he'd be perfect on a contender as a do-everything hustle guy, but he needs the right situation for his skills to shine. He also strikes me as thoroughly insane.
Others: Chase Budinger. I mean, come on now. Really? Budinger? He's not quick, his game comes and goes, and if it weren't for his random 40" vertical he'd probably be on a beach somewhere trying to decide if he should hang ten or hit on your girlfriend again.
Gerald Henderson and Wayne Ellington. Henderson is athletic but can't shoot. Ellington can shoot but isn't athletic. They're both undersized shooting guards who can't create their own shot and whose stock was inflated by playing in the state of North Carolina. They should totally get married and have lots of babies together, one of whom might be a good NBA player.
Dionte Christmas. He can shoot and score. He's not a terrific athlete but he is a very good candidate for some instant offense off the bench. His last name would also probably give Jerry Reynolds a punnerific anyeurism.
Nick Calathes. Enh. That's all I have to say. Enh.
Small Forward
1. No One. This group of small forwards is so bad no one deserves to be listed #1.
2. Earl Clark. I mean, I guess. He is a really athletic 6’10” small forward who can handle the ball, run the floor, and looks like an NBA player. One problem. He. Can’t. Shoot. He can’t shoot. He can't shoot from inside, he can't shoot from outside. And NBA small forwards need to be able to shoot.
3. Omri Casspi. Remember about 10 years ago how there were all those articles about that red headed kid they were calling the Jewish Jordan and he didn’t play on the Sabbath? Whatever happened to that guy? Huh. All of this is to say, I know nothing about Omri Casspi except that he’s from Israel and he's supposed to be tough and reasonably athletic. Let’s hope he turns out better than the last Jewish Jordan.
4. Victor Claver. Super-athletic, 6'10", skinny, and a turnover machine. He can finish strong and shoot from outside. Nothing in between.
5. Sam Young. A pretty solid all-around player, could be a Courtney Lee-type who plays tough defense and doesn't screw up too much at everything else. The drawback is that he's already 24, so probably not as much superduper upside potential as the other players.
Others:
Danny Green. There's always a place in the NBA for okay athletes who can play okay D and knock down open jumpers but can't be counted on to score. That place is the bench.
DaJuan Summers. What in the heck happened to this guy? At the beginning of the season he looked pretty good -- he lacks any semblance of a midrange game, but he's very athletic and can shoot from outside. Then his game (and the whole Georgetown team) fell off a cliff and he was last seen on a milk carton.
Damion James. My basic philosophy is that in order to be a good NBA small forward you need to be able to handle the ball, shoot from outside, and preferably create your own shot. Barring that, you need to be a top athlete and a really good defender. James has precisely none of those qualities.
Tyler Smith. If Tyler Smith and Damion James changed jerseys at a workout and pretended to be the other person do you think anyone would notice? Me neither.
Power forwards
1. Blake Griffin. Well, the pre-draft measurements solved the mystery of the ages: Griffin really is 6'10" in shoes. He also has the arms of a T-Rex. If Griffin can perfect some type of a fall away jumper he can probably be a pretty deadly player offensively, and as David Lee demonstrates, simply being motivated can get you 15 rebounds a game. Unfortunately, Griffin is also destined to be the worst defending power forward since Vin Baker.
2. Jordan Hill. Yawn. In my experience the Hill camp is divided between people who watched him play all three years at Arizona and saw a middling power forward who got slightly less middling, and those who saw him just his junior year when he looked "halfway decent" to "pretty good" and extrapolated from that that he's got a lot of NBA potential. Hill is fine. He's got NBA size and athleticism. He'll provide a perfectly respectable 20 minutes off the bench. He's just not anything special, and anyone who is drafting him for more than just a placeholder big is going to be disappointed.
3. Josh Heytvelt. You read right, folks! #3 power forward. Heytvelt is my pick for sleeper big in this draft. He's an extremely skilled, tough, surprisingly athletic big who has quite the slew of red flags: namely that he's already 23 and was suspended a substantial length of time because he was caught with shrooms. Provided he doesn't ditch training camp for the next Phish reunion I think Heytvelt could be a really good big in the NBA. Sort of like Brad Miller's more-athletic, even-more-stoned younger brother.
4. James Johnson. There's some debate over whether Johnson projects as a small forward as a power forward. Unfortunately he's not really quick enough to be a small forward and not really big and strong enough to be a power forward. He's the ultimate tweener. As Carl Landry and Brandon Bass go to show, the undersized but skilled power forward thing works in the right situation. Johnson is going to need the right situation if he's going to avoid Kenny Thomas disease.
5. Gani Lawal. Ladies and gentlemen, the next Reggie Evans. Lawal might be the strongest guy in this entire draft besides Griffin. He's tough, he's got a nose for the ball, he's got decent hops. He's also a tad undersized and, although perfectly decent, won't wow you athletically. Is that worth the #23? You betcha. Would Petrie touch Lawal with a ten foot pole? Only if he was carrying a Marcel Proust novel.
Others: DeJuan Blair. The red flags abound. He's short. He can't jump. Word is his knees are shot. So... Who wants an earthbound 6'6" power forward with bad knees? Anyone? Anyone? Oh. Someone raised their hand. What's that? "He can just flat out play" you say? Yeah. Exactly. You can put your hand down now.
Tyler Hansbrough. He's better than Mark Madsen. Not that much better. But better enough that his buggy eyes will be around to annoy us all for years to come.
Taj Gibson. This guy is soon to be 24, so it's unlikely he's going to get a whole lot better. The good news for the team that drafts him is that he's already pretty good. He's skilled around the hoop, has good hands, and he learned 7,234 different defenses under Tim Floyd at USC.
Jeff Pendergraph. The oop to James Harden's alley, Pendergraph is a very athletic PF who excels at catching and finishing and not much else.
Centers
1. Hasheem Thabeet. Silenced a lot of doubters with a strong NCAA tournament and looks like he'll go #2 or #3 as a result. Here's something that remains underrated about Thabeet: I've never seen this guy fall for a pump fake. Do you know how hard that is? Everyone falls for pump fakes! Thabeet never, ever leaves his feet except when someone actually shoots. He hardly ever fouls. It's the reason why he's such a great shotblocker. (That and he's 7'2".) I can't believe people hate on this guy.
2. B.J. Mullens. Why is this guy so low on draft boards? I'll tell you why: Thad Matta stuck him on the bench and led a whisper campaign about his work ethic in order to hurt his draft stock so that Mullens would be forced to return for his sophomore year, nevermind that Ohio St. would have been a lot better if he had just sucked it up and played Mullens. Thad Matta? I salute your idiocy. Anyway, at age 19 Mullens is already as good as Jeff Foster and has the tools to be even better. What is it with 7'0" athletic bigs falling in the draft these past couple years (no, really, Javale McGee wants to know)?
Others: there aren't any others. At least none that I know anything about.
Annnnnd there you have it. Flame away.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
12 recs |
55 comments
Comments
Thank you!
Excellent and timely analysis. Or at least extremely interesting. Especially for those of us who don’t know shite about college hoops. Great for future reference. Way to put it all out there.
by My Losing Season on Jun 11, 2009 8:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
It’s an interesting read, I’ll give you that…
by otis29 on Jun 11, 2009 9:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How dare you comment on anything on this here blog after 5pm?
What are you? Obsessed.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 11, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to come here and bitch about the Magic-Lakers game
But I read this instead!
by otis29 on Jun 12, 2009 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lazy asshole
You coulda done both….
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 12, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lot of things I agree with, lot I disagree with
But I’m with you on Heytvelt. Big time sleeper-potential.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Jun 11, 2009 9:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you here
I was one of the 1st recs, and am just now getting back here to post, but am tired of arguing over who should be picked 2nd through 5,793rd. Thanks for the effort and putting it all out here. Very good stuff. I seriously appreciate the time it took to do this, but I’ll be very happy with Rubio, Evans, Jennings, Holiday, Flynn, Curry, Teague etc. so I won’t argue your points, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy the read. Seriously, very good stuff.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 13, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have a few guys maybe rated out of position, and I’m not sure I agree with all of your rankings. I like your bust criteria but I really disagree with your dismissals of a lot of the point guards in this draft, especially Lawson and Maynor.
I do think that Meeks will bring some good scoring that can translate to the NBA, wouldn’t mind seeing the Kings take a flyer on him at #31 if we fill our needs at the point and for a backup big earlier.
by coachtheus on Jun 11, 2009 9:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was more pithy than honest about Lawson
I think he’s fine, I just can’t really get excited about him.
Maynor is more of a risk, in my opinion. He kind of reminds me of Acie Law all around.
by nbrans on Jun 11, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some good thoughts. A little too high on the college prospects and not enough attention to the Euros. It’s been brought up in the NBA Finals, but the two college stars in the series are JJ Redick and Adam Morrison. Both would be lottery picks again if they snuck into this draft.
by bignerd on Jun 11, 2009 9:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
I really don’t have opinions on the Euros because other than Rubio I haven’t seen them play. But I watched a lot of college basketball. So there you go.
by nbrans on Jun 11, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine with me. College does have it’s off years. However, this could be a decent international crop. That said, a decent international crop is around five good players.
I do appreciate your honest assessment and a return back to reality. Draft talk the last 3 weeks has made every Top 10 player sound like a future star. In truth, you got to pick off a lot of warts, yes a LOT OF WARTS to sell me on any guy. I’m not buying he has a nice cross over, long arms or athleticism hints he can defend (ya, right . . . everyone in NBA is a great athlete, 95% no defense).
by bignerd on Jun 11, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teague
I, like everyone else in the world, was high on Teague pretty much all of regular season ACC play. And I think the Maryland and Cleveland State losses are forgivable for a young bunch still trying to find their footing (and I say that despite having had Wake in my Final Four.) However I have a huge problem with Teague’s Damn the Torpedoes insistence on entering the draft this year. Despite there being a glut of point guards. Despite nbrans not being the General Manager of any of the teams that need said point guards. Despite the reality that with Aminu staying Wake could , if they avoid Cleveland State, be a legitimate Final Four team this year.
Yes there is a bumper crop of out of position, immature guards in this year’s draft, but those are kids with intangibles that, fair or not, the vox populi doesn’t perceive Teague to have. And the fact that Holliday is stupid for leaving early doesn’t make Teague any less stupid for following suit. His inability to acknowledge his future is better suited staying one more season and capitalizing off that extra year, vs. flirting with Patty Mills territory, only exacerbates questions I, and I’m sure plenty of others, had after the late season swoon.
Nbrans, even if you feel Teague is unfairly undervalued vs. someone like Holiday, and I don’t dispute that reality, the reality is most of the powers that be don’t feel that way. And the best way to disprove them isn’t to enter a draft where the best outcome is logging minutes with the Bakersfield Jam. It’s dominating a mediocre Atlantic Coast Conference and disproving the feeling, however irrational, that you weren’t simply a flash in the pan. That’s not perfect logic, I know, but perfect is the enemy of good.
by rbiegler on Jun 11, 2009 10:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the difference
Is that if Holiday went back to UCLA he would be the unquestioned point guard and would have a great opportunity to prove that he can lead a team.
If Teague goes back to Wake, Ishmael Smith is still the point guard because Dino Gaudio is an idiot. If Teague couldn’t get minutes at the point last year he’s not going to get minutes at the point next year. In other words, he’s not going to have a chance to prove his detractors wrong. Might as well enter the draft.
Besides which, Teague averaged almost 20 points a game in one of the best conferences. Holiday showed nothing. It’s really not a good comparison.
by nbrans on Jun 11, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really not even a comparison
And this idea of Holiday showing nothing is relative. No one is drafting him on the basis of his statistics at UCLA. They’re drafting him on his intangibles. Now you may think that’s bullshit. Or you may think Holiday’s intangibles are bullshit (I for one do). But the fact is he’s going to be a lottery pick this year, so why go back? Teague doesn’t have the same insurance policy. And Teague didn’t suffer any lack of minutes last year owed to Gaudio’s idiodicy. And, North Carolina the exception, I was not alone in not being enamored with the Atlantic Coast Conference collectively in 08/09 anyway (and let’s say the ACC was up to par last year, why not draft Toney Douglas, who averaged over 20 points a game.) If Teague was smart he’d stay. He’s not staying. I consequently question his decision making.
by rbiegler on Jun 12, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see that point
If you based it on draft position, yeah, Teague could be taking a risk. But I think in order for it to be a bad decision you have to look at whether he’s going to have an opportunity to improve his draft stock next year.
Teague has proven he can score the ball. That’s not in question. The knock on him is that he’s not really a true point guard. But if he’s not going to be able to play point guard at Wake next year, how is he going to be able to alleviate those concerns? It could just be a replay of this year and if anything could entrench the idea that he’s just a small shooting guard.
If he could take the PG reins next year I’d be with you. I just think it’s a risk to go back and play another year at SG.
by nbrans on Jun 12, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey nbrans
you seem to have sidestepped the question: given your analysis what do you see as a best choice for the Kings with what is expected to be available (for the sake of argument, consider Rubio out of reach)-
I don’t think you are advocating Teague at #4, but if you are not, than who?
by betweentheeyes on Jun 12, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sidestepping
Because I really have no idea. If I were GM I’d probably be looking to either trade down to get Teague or, if the “Bucks taking Teague at #10” rumors have legs, just say Damn the Torpedoes and take him at #4.
Barring that, I think you can make a plausible case for Curry or Jennings or even Flynn. I’d be less thrilled with Hill, who I think would be tremendously underwhelming, or one of the SGs or SFs, who probably aren’t going to get any time.
But I also know that I’m an amateur at a computer, so I’m mostly just looking forward to seeing what the grownups end up doing.
by nbrans on Jun 12, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
honesty
and self-realization. rec’d for being new age
by betweentheeyes on Jun 12, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, good stuff
I’m 44 and I still really look forward to seeing what the grownups end up doing. Maybe someday I can be a grownup too. As if.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 13, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been looking forward to this since your wonderful last post
rec’d for insight and audacity
I like your Teague love but don’t see Monta Ellis – of course, no one saw Monta Ellis, even Monta Ellis (woo hoo! I got $66M let’s celebrate!!!). I hope Teague plays some defense.
Holliday has enough upside to be interesting. Maybe not #4 but I didn’t see your recommendation for that 4 spot (that would also mean you label 1,2,3 as well).
Curry is very intriguing.He can shoot, he is athletic enough for the combine (yes, you expressed your anti-combine sentiment and Kevin Durant will forever shame the combine) and he has all around skills. To me, he is a Petrie Pick.
Thabeet has the chance to be a special defender. If he doesn’t foul out, if he learns to box out, and right now he gives you nothing on offense – can he learn? probably, but until he does, he is part of a 4 on 5 offense. On defense, you take him out of the paint and …
In general there are a lot of Louisville, USC, NC and Wake Forest guys – and no one led those teams (sometimes Ty, PsychoT,etc). The only guy’s who led teams to success were Griffin, Curry and Harden, does that mean anything…. uh, maybe – but I am not impressed overall.
All drafts are scary, this time it is less so as the expectations are lower, not higher.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 11, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to argue Thabeet one more freakin' time
1) He almost never gets in foul trouble for a guy who actually plays D. Did his numbers look bad in the games he did? Of Course – everyone’s do in that situation.
2) He doesn’t go for pump fakes, a point Nbrns makes that I’ve made a number of times, dude is almost never fooled
3) He boxes out very very very well for a college guy, ask the 6’6" guy playing neext to him who got 10 rebounds a game.
4) decent offense will come. You don’t have to be a fantastic shooter when you’re 7’3"
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 11, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lltg - all well and good for the college game
1 – He is not going to foul Shaq, Yao ? Is he going to keep up with Duncan, KG, Gasol (Pau)? Howard, Perkins isn’t going to knock him off the block? Josh Smith isn’t going to slam one in his face just to slam one in his face? He is fine with Dampier, Bynum, Oden, old Jermaine O’Neal.
2 – He doesn’t go for pump fakes. Okay.
3 – Rebounding is a question, boxing out or not
by betweentheeyes on Jun 12, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
4- you have to have some skill on offense
passing, rebounding, a hook shot, a move, something. He may develop it, but it will take a few seasons if at all.
Sorry, I am just not convinced.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 12, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At first
but then watch. 5 or 6 years of comments like ‘the best post defender in the game’
I’m fine with 12 pts or so from my center if he’s denying that many easy points (or more! no 6’4" guys coasting to the rim) as well.
We’ll have to see, its all about whether/how much he wants it. If he does – watch out! If he doesn’t . . . he’s a really good defensive starter or bench reserve. In this draft, that sounds pretty good.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 12, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me
It would be all about the workout and interview. I get a chance to see him move up close and talk to him and get a feel for how much he really wants to be the best.
Unfortunately for whatever reason, he will not be working out for us, so, I say pass. I think he may be a very good payer, but if he won’t come here and show us what he can do so, I wouldn’t pick him.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 13, 2009 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ike "Can Flat Out Play" Diogu
Your three main criteria for draft candidates obviously remain applicable to current NBA players as well. With that in mind, I’m guessing that you have an opinion about the Kings possibly re-signing Ike Diogu, and I’m guessing that your opinion is: Don’t.
by My Losing Season on Jun 11, 2009 11:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya, Don't
Putting up 30 and 10 in two meaningless games at the end of season where everyone else on the court is thinking about vacation isn’t a good indicator of talent.
by bignerd on Jun 11, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but the guy can just flat out play
So there’s that.
by My Losing Season on Jun 12, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post nbrans
I also don’t agree with all of it of course but who does?
I actually think 2 or 3 of the PGs or combo guards will have All-Star appearances in thier futures. I just wish I knew which 2 or 3.
1) I share all of your Rubio misgivings and double-down. Right on the mark. The quick PG is here to stay for a while, I don’t think he can keep up or get around them. In a different decade . . . .? The other quick PGs in this draft will cement this in the league for a while.
2)Curry will be a good pro in the right system, he’ll score in the NBA no doubt. The rest of your reservations – who knows?
3) Griffin if he stays healthy will fine tune his shot and make several All-Star teams and has the potential to do more. 6’10" Post players who are physically dominant don’t need monkey arms, undersized players do. A good offensive or D lineman has short arms for better leverage, to deny position (O linemen) and to create space (D-linemen) Will he block shots? Nope, but dispite my love for Thabeet – that ain’t everything. He’s got all the tools, strength, athleticism, things we wish/hope guys will develop next year.
4) I like Maynor, I get all your points but have a gut feeling he really is one of those guys who may overcome his shortcomings with IQ, control, leadership.
5) I hate the 1 and done. Keep these kids in school (or somewhere) until they’ve got another year or two. They’re stealing my money, learning basic shit on my dime. Yes, every year or two there will be one guy who could have been ready, should have been playing in the pro’s. oh well, the needs of the many . . . .
6) BJ Mullins – really? I have a red flag for another big guy who’s only playing for the money – not to be the best. He was a statue on D and had terrible footwork on anything from what I saw. I do not believe.
7) I agree with every word on Harden. He’s a bench guy who can shoot (maybe) at the next level
8) No mention of Jorden Hill? yeah, I’ve never thought much of him either.
9) Evans, you don’t see him as a PG and neither do I and the dude can’t shoot – at all, he’s a small Salmons – no thanks. You need to apply your rules to him.
There’s more but its late and I’ve been working day and night lately so I’m dooone.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 12, 2009 12:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh -you did mention Hill
I must have slept through that part.
Earl Clark: see Battier, Christie
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 12, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you about Evans
I’m not totally sold on any of the shooting guards and small forwards in this draft. But I think Evans is more athletic than Harden and he has a knack for getting into the lane, which I think gives him more potential than the others. His accomplishments were pretty impressive for a frosh, but hard to know if he’ll be able to thrive in a structured setting. He was at his best when the game was scrappy.
by nbrans on Jun 12, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Terrific breakdown nbrans
Thanks…
"geez its like this site is so serious i jus wanna git mai opinyons on tha Kings out there ok" - TZ
by sroufe on Jun 12, 2009 1:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great job
outstanding read, thanks very much nbrans.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Jun 12, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Patty Mills, Tyler Hansborough, Darren Collison
Whats wrong with these guys with the 23rd pick or even hopefully the first pick in the 2nd?
these guys have either there downside but have a set of skills that teams need, Mills is pretty quick, wouldn’t be be a good guy to have off the bench, Hansborough knows who to play the game, would be a solid role player, a winner good team guy knows the game, energy off the bench. Collison similar to Hansborough. Heres hoping some of these guys drop
by Murf on Jun 12, 2009 12:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
James Harden is going to be a star in the NBA. I think he gets picked #2. One thing he does is change speeds, and use his athleticism when he needs to. It is actually a very subtle skill, Brandon Roy, and LeBraon James are masters at it. It is something a player like Jason Thompson (needs) needed to improve upon, playing with bursts of quickness, to keep defenders guessing, i.e. freeze defender > read defense > attack.
A feel for the game and high b-ball IQ is something I think Jeff Teague lacks. He plays at one speed. I like Teague, but I think he’s too small, and not skilled enough with the ball. At his size, he has to be much more comfortable and creative with the ball in his hands then he showed at Wake. That is (was) Quincy’s biggest problem, along with inability to shoot; he could not dribble in traffic or with pressure, and make the right play. Teague will have the same difficulty. I see him as a 10-15 minute a game guy next year as a rookie, prone to force plays and shots. He is going to struggle until he gets better with the ball in his hands.
Johnny Flynn has a little bit of Chris Paul to his game, maybe a better athlete. Paul is not a good shooter either, just perennial MVP candidate, so I think Kings are considering Flynn real closely about now.
by bench_blob on Jun 12, 2009 6:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Talk about upsetting the apple cart – if James Harden goes #2, that draft thread will be EPIC.
by otis29 on Jun 12, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For five minutes
i think OKC would be more than happy with Thabeet, than it’s Petrie on the clock to see if he’s down for the Rubio experience.
by nbrans on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Petrie has fear of this situation
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 12, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's scared
But I also wouldn’t be too surprised to see him pass on Rubio and take someone else.
by nbrans on Jun 12, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
passing on Rubio would show he has no fear of the situation. For most ‘experts,’ Rubio should be picked by the Kings if he were to fall that far.
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 12, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah ed
Totally with you there.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 12, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would bet that Rubio will either have a "guarantee"
from the Kings at #4 or higher or he will pull out on 6/15.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jun 13, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can definitely see that happening
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 13, 2009 3:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can too
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 13, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I think he's a bit stuck with his contract situation
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 13, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is but what do you mean
That he’s satying anyways unless he can get that resolved??
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 13, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has 2 options
Going to another European team, or coming to the NBA team that drafts him. Which do you think is more reasonable at this point?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 13, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry
I thought intellectual recourse included, thought. I’ll try to treat like you a dumb mexican next time. :P
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 13, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Don’t be asking question, just provide the answers
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 13, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bastard
I hate doing all the work.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 13, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah - nobody saw a contract problem coming for Rubio!
:)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 14, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think players that play for bad coaches have huge upside.
Of course that means the whole Kings team has gigantic upside. But Teague was looking top 5 until Wake imploded, they don’t come much worse than Dino Gaudio (king of like Florida St. football players.) He seems the most Westbrook like.
At least Al Davis isn't running my team's drafts.
by bringbackbuddytrees on Jun 16, 2009 6:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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