One-sided defence of Rubio with some hopefully-rational conclusions
I think that the discussion about Rubio has really reached the point where it is beyond the boundaries of basketball rationalities (ok, consdiering the current situation of the Kings - probably no wondering there). On one side passionate praise sometimes stemming even from his smile, apparently. On the other hand focused critique on the scale from 'he's overhyped bust' argumets to some more sophisticated arguments.
Truly, I believe that everything on Rubio has been already said. Only not everyone is familar with all that stuff and not everyone is willing to think about all that stuff. If you read some of my comments in past few months, you probably know that I am a fan of Rubio and I really like his game, but I always have been careful of glorifying him and did even prefer Blake Griffin over Ricky in terms of the draft. Now, after few weeks of extended discussion on other prospects that have really helped me extending my own limited knowledge of college basketball, I am positively calling for the Kings drafting Rubio for the 4th pick of this draft. I believe that the fourth pick overall is also fair for his general price on the basketball market. And as pretty much everything on him has been already said, I will just focus on defending his supposed 'weaknesses' as I managed to collect them on internet over last few weeks. I have no ambition to bring any new insights really, just to remind some of the issues that might be lost in the whirl of passion or that some of you might be not so familiar with. I did not really intend to write this piece, so excuse me for missing many points probably, I will be very happy to update it in the case there is something to add.
******************
'Rubio isn't athletic enough'
To be honest, I am not really sure what people mean by that? That he lacks the vertical jump? He's not quick enough? Fast enough? Strong enough? Big enough? Tall enough?
Rubio is often compared to Steve Nash as an example of not particularly 'athletic' point-guard with a high baketball IQ etc. (yes, I ignore his shooting for this point). In my opinion, Rubio could be much better compared to Manu Ginobilli only playing the PG position. No, he has no terrific vertical jump (but can dunk, anyway). They both have very quick first step and are able to beat their defenders, but particulalry, they have very good timing of that step and are able to utilize any disbalance that their defenders get into. This is why Rubio is such good in pick&roll situations. It has also be said many times that Rubio is as quick with the ball as without, which is a highly important issue in basketball, especially for pointguard (see Banks, Marcus). And even more importantly, Rubio can be quick, quicker, very quick, not quick at all. The ability to change his speed is one of his biggest devices and the one thing that makes him the most similar to J-Will in my eyes (yes, more than his passing). Watching highlights of J-Will's penetrations on youtube now, you will not see any particularly fascinating velocity their, just perfect timing, rhytm and co-ordination.
He is not strong enough?
Alright, on the left, there is a photo of Derick Rose taken in his (supposedly) senior year at high school, that means at the Rubio's current age. Do you think he had a frame to compete with the 'most athletic' pointguards in the league at that time? Was he on the other hand much stronger than Rubio at that time? Rubio probably never spent too much time in the gym with weights but you can hardly convince me that frame is something he cannot gain within couple of years will it be necessary.
Anything else? Size? Wingspan? With his unofficial size 6'5" in shoes and 6'7" wingspan (I took data from pookeyguru's blog and he has refers to Chad Ford's Insider article) he ranks behind Greivis Vasquez and Tyreke Evans and behind Evans, Beauboise, Teague and Vasquez presumably. Only Evans (who is doubted to be a true PG) and possibly Teague are considered as prospects of Rubio's level these days. To make things complete, Rubio's weight is listed as 190 lbs, pretty much an average among this year's crop of PGs (yet, Rubio is the youngest one).
Right, the question of being 'inujry-prone' might seem relevant to someone. I disagree with that. The only serious injury I know about is his wrist-ijnury from the last summer. Besides, he has played between 50-60 official professional games per year in last three seasons (that means since he was 16) not counting his games for national team(s) of Spain. I believe he should be as fine as any other player in the draft. And actually, playing quite a lot and still not having to rely on his physical attributes is something that makes his health future maybe a bit less risky.
Ok, let's get further...
In other words - he will not score much.
I agree - partly. Rubio is not a bad shooter from distance. Yes, his style is awful. Do you know whose style is probably even worse and he is still the best scorer (and probably shooter as well) in the current Kings roster? Kevin Martin best shooting percentage for 3 in the college was 38.2%, in his freshman year. Then it got even worse. Rubio shot 43% for three last season in the Spanish league, where the three-point line is further than in the college and yes, I believe that defense is better and harder.
He is not a finisher? I disagree here as well. It is a fairly problematic point, but I argue that the main reason of his falling percentage for 2 points and the increasing number if turnovers this season (apart from the wrist-injury) was the lack of any fair-at-least finisher in DKV's roster. After Rudy Fernandez departed to NBA, the best finisher in Badalona was Jerome Moiso. Actually, he was probably the only finisher. Having watched Rubio's games this year, he was able to get to the box quite easily (especially from pick&roll situations) but - he struggled to finish such action. No, he's not able to dunk over collapsed defense - probably no pointguard in the world is. And too often he found himseld in the situation where he just could not pass the ball to the players who could have finished the action, although the whole defense was collapsed on him and apparently someone should have been free for a spot to shoot/dunk etc. This is indeed where many of his turnovers come from - unsuccesful penetrations under pressure finished by blocked shots, turnovers or unbalanced lay-ins. However, this does not prove that Rubio makes wrong decisions, it is about having to play on his own against the bunch of mature players on regular basis (and I don't want to get to the college vs. Europe debate, but lots of zone defense and lots of system play and experiences of such game is what makes penetrations in Europe much more difficult, in my opinion). Just take a look at some Olympics highlights and you might see what Rubio is able to do against the top competition when there are players who are able to find a spot where he would find them.
Ok, the most serious flaw in his game is his middle-range jumpshot and it is also the biggest mystery to me. It's not about shooting the ball from the middle range badly or about taking bad shots from middle range. Rubio just does not take those. Too many times he will get behind the screen and instead of stopping and taking a middle-range shot without any defender around him, he just goes on to the basket where someone is regularly waiting for him. I believe this is something that can be much improved in NBA as Rubio has intelligence and is willing to learn. You can also take into consideration that he has always playes for one franchise so far, from the secondary school through his junior years in Badalona to his pro-career since 15. He has some experiences from the national team, but the same way as it is probably in the US colleges, there is certain philosophical tradition often linked to one particular club, commonly sharing by all teams from youth to professional first team. And that is why I am not so much worried about Rubio's shoting percentage. He will never be Ray Allen, but with the range of his shots extending, I think he is capable of being a solid scorer in the NBA at least (not saying when this might happen).
Finally, TZ raised a valid point today that Rubio's True Shooting percentage was 'even with Flynn, and better than Evans, Holiday and Mills, and TONS better than that of Jennings' with 57%. Kevin Martin's TS% during the last year in the college was 60% and is generally between 60-61% during his las three years in the league. As TZ mentioned, Rubio's ability to draw a fould is crucial here. During the last season in Spain, he was fouled 6.9 times per 36 minutes (calculated from these stats). His per-36-minutes average for his all professional career (including the Euroleague, excluding national team) since he was 15 is about 6.5 fouls.
'He can't defend/will not be able to keep his man in front of him...'
Ironically, what Rubio had been credited for before the hype over his Olympics performance began was his defense. As barely 16 years old, he led the whole Euroleague in steals/game average with quite a huge difference while playing only 19 minutes per game. Before I go on, take a look at this videohighlights from Olympics. Probably many of you have already seen that. What I want to stress is that much of his highlights (mostly the second half of the video) indeed are about defense. Those of you who have seen Spanish game against China might have remembered what was in my opinion Rubio's best perfromance in the tournament. It was not about scoring or distributing, he just closed down Chinese pointguard and single-handedly started the turn in the game that Spaniards seemed to lose and finally have won in the overtime.
Rubio has some amazing assets - quick and long hands and very good timing for when to strike the opponents. He is brilliant in doubling the post-players, anticipating passes but also stealing the ball from other pointguards.
Doubts about Rubio are whether he is able to stand in front of his man. One issue is that Rubio might have problems with quicker and/or stronger pointguards, but I don't think that anyone would be able to stop Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Rajon Rondo or Tony Parker single-handedly. Or as furious.d mentioned today, 'There’s no such thing as good perimeter defense in the NBA without good interior defense'. The more important issue is that Rubio is indeed what might be called an 'opportunistic' defender who is taking very high risk (stepping back from his player when he does not have the ball trying to steal the ball elsewhere; trying to steal the ball from dribbling player and being vulnerable to good crossovers...). I believe that this is another consequence of the style he has been taught and with a good coach (and good assistents), the philosophy of his defense can be adjusted and highly developed.
The final thing that might be mentioned in the 'defense' chapter is his (defensive) rebounding. It has been discussed even here at StR that Rubio is fairly good and especially active defender on the defensive end so I will skip this part as such.
'He will struggle with language, with culture, he is immature, he will not be respected by his teammates, he will not be a leader...'
I feel this type of arguments to be the weakest of the group, really. First of all, Rubio is 18-years old Spanish kid who plays professionally since 15 (yes, you have heard this many times) and have more intercultural experiences that probably any player in the college (including 23-years old seniors). There was a bit 'immature' discussion at StR few days ago about whether he would be respected by Donté Greene, Kevin Martin, Jason Thompson etc if he joins the roster in October. Well, I can't see why should not. Whether he would be a leader? He has to deserve it, obviously. As any other player in the league. It might take him some time, maybe two months, maybe one year. I would think there's no need to repeat the following - but I can't see the reason why should not be respected if a) he makes other players better /yes, he does, that's one of his main strengths/, b) is generally a nice, open-minded, pleasant and non self-centred person /allegedly, he is/, c) will give the last piece of him on the court to help his team /he's been doing this for few years, now/. I believe there's a lot in Rubio's history that should point towards his mentality as an advantage rather than deficiency. And I really don't understand why anyone thinks that it would help to have the same Rubio with the same skills but instead of 18, he would be 23 (and that's what arguments about not being a leader for his teammates are).
*********************
To conclude - Few months ago, I wrote a fairly boring post here at StR. If you have time, maybe take a look at some of the conclusions there. If you don't - in the principle I argued that Rubio, if coming to Sacramento this year, will not bring too much impact and will be fairly inefficient. One of the reasons why I think so is that in the last decade there has been no efficient rookie pointguard in the league. Further, the rookie pointguard with the biggest impact on his team in the last decade behind Chris Paul has arguably been Derrick Rose. Yes, a very good player (this year), but not an instant all-star yet. Further, Rubio will be the youngest pointguard in the last decade (and probably in an even longer period) drafted so high.
And excuse me a couple of quoted paragraphs from that post, especially for those of you whose hopes on Rubio might have exceeded the rational view on him:
Second, and more important - if you are in the Rubio-camp, don't expect him to come next year, or the year after and immediately redeem this team. Even if Rubio will spend a year in Europe and would come in 2010, even if he will take some weight, even if he will improve his jump-shot, even if will add a more of defensive strategy into his repertoire... He will be still just a barely-twenty-years-old-rookie-pointguard... If he should become a franchise player, superstar, star, role player, bench player or whatever, it will not probably happen in 2010, neither in 2011. Ok, in 2012 the soonest. (Try to think about the peak of Rubio in terms of, let's say years 2012-2022...)
That, however, does not mean he cannot help this team even immediately. Rubio is a pass-first pointguard with incredible passing skills (already) and court-vision (already). Besides that, as a combination of his court-vision, ballhandling and quickness, he is very able penetrator and very confident finisher (though using more of brain than brawn), so he can also score if necessary. His jumpshot is not perfect, but it's far from being hopeless and he can be effective even if forced to middle- and long-range shots. He is aggresive, team-first minded though still confident, purposeful, funny, willing-to-defend, coachable kid with a horrible haircut. Not a 'Next-Magic'.
Do you wish him to join the Kings? If yes, that's fine. But if you actually wish someone else - don't blame Rubio if he's not that one. And also try to rethink if that one actually exists...
In other words: If you want Rubio - it's fine. However, although I understand all the passion that's going around, it might be useful to sit down and carefully reiterate why exactly you want him. And in that case, taking him as he is, as a whole.
And if you don't want Rubio - that's fine either. But the same counts here - except that I don't really understand all that passion that's going around. Still, try to rethink (critically, even self-critically) why you don't really want him and what came first - those reasons or your refusal of Rubio as a whole.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
11 recs |
43 comments
Comments
Great writeup KFfCE
Enjoyed it very much. I hope that fans very much take you in heed.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 23, 2009 4:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
very nice post
I remembered your first post and didn’t find it at all boring.
Three things about Rubio that I think we’re all forgetting.
While all the other point guards in the draft have been playing against HS children and post HS kids in college, Rubio has been playing against professionals (as in fully grown adult men, not boys). He has already proven himself on the pro level. I grant you Euroleague isn’t the NBA, but these are grown-ups with hair on their chest and beards. We know he can play at this level. All the other PGs are a coin toss.
People have commented on his lack of scoring. I think it is wonderful. Personally, I would rather have a PG who puts up 8-10 points a night with 13 assists rather than the Mike Bibby model of 16 points and 5 assists. That leads to a lot of one-on-one B-ball. A point should lead the team and make great passes and make everyone else better. Asking him to be a scorer, too, is just greedy.
Because . . . Are you ready for this . . . He plays defense. That, in itself, should be enough of a novelty for Kings fans. I can’t renenber the last PG that could defend worth a damn.
Thanks your post was very enlightening. It is odd to read someone who actually knows what he is talking about.
by Hubbell on Jun 23, 2009 5:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I would hate to see how long a fanpost would be if you sat down intending to write one
Excellent, excellent and rational overview of Ricky’s game, potential, weaknesses,context and future.
I have totally enjoyed you posts here this year. Since the end of the season and especially since school has gotten out here the number of posts and comments have increased and as they have done so I’ve been reading fewer posts and skipping a lot of the comments but I always read your stuff.
We’ll see whether we end up with Ricky or not very soon and then all the speculation about the draft will be over, there will be a short blast of free agent signings and then we’ll truly enter the dog days of the basketball season. I’m actually looking forward to that and hoping we lose a few band wagon fans along the way.
I hope you keep posting here, if we do indeed draft Ricky I only hope that the fans who have invested so much into the Kings drafting him keep your longer view in mind because even if we’d drafted Blake Griffin and real fan of the Kings has to be taking the long view.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
by Bluejohn on Jun 23, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Really well done.
Thorough and hopefully final installment.
I want Rubio here. I don’t have unrealistic expectations. I want the entertainment and the enthusiasm I think he will spark in the other players while the team spends the next couple of years working out of the pit it’s in.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
by left hand on Jun 23, 2009 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But
he plays NO defense, and he turns the ball over too much and all he does is sco….. ohh crap. Sorry, wrong guy. My bad
Great stuff KFFCE, rec’d. You just made me want Rubio even more and now it’s gonna hurt even more when we don’t get him. Thank you!
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 23, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great points!
I believe he will have the following comparisons over his NBA Career:
Court Vision = Steve Nash
Basketball IQ = John Stockton
Change speed/directions = J-Will
Alley Oop passes = CP3
Home Run Pass = J-Will
Rebounding = Andre Miller
Assists = Jason Kidd
Steals = Rajon Rondo
Defending his position = Kirk Hinrich
Shooting % = Beno Udrih (yeah I said it)
Points per game = Jason Kidd
3 point range = Derek Fisher
Getting to the line = Brandon Roy
So there are lots of other equal or better comparisons that probably could be argued but the point is he is likely to become a solid NBA player in the league.
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Jun 24, 2009 12:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the acclaim
Appreciated. I really don’t have much time to contribute to StR, but recently I struggled even to read all that’s going on around. For me, the problem is not a high number of posts and discussions here, rather the fact that people are then unable/unwilling to read those and too many points have been constantly reiterated through the same paths as in the past. And the Rubio saga reminds me of some multi-track rollercoaster with too many crossroads and spins
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Jun 24, 2009 6:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya
My only suggestion is read fanpost’s from people you know have been posting here awhile, and read the main page stuff.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snap!
I guess that knocks me out…
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Jun 24, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I really enjoy all your posts, and I agree with you. I’m positive Petrie will get something done to get Rubio without damaging our young core.
by Kreuz on Jun 24, 2009 8:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations, great post
Some years ago I heard in radio (in Spain) that a 14 years old boy was going to play in ACB. His trainer, Aito García Reneses, was the same that discover Pau Gasol, Rudy Fernández or (in the 80´s) Epi, a legend of Spanish basketball (silver in Olympics in 1984). Since then I´ve followed Ricky Rubio´s evolution.
In the last months I read lost of comments about how Ricky is not going to be successful, that he is pure hype, overrated. But the Rubio haters don´t follow a logic, basically, they say that a white European boy cannot compete in NBA against the best PGs in the world and that he will be destroyed. On the other hand I read some, not less stupid, posts about the new coming of Magic Johnson or “Pistol” Maravich, so I don´t know what is people expecting.
When I watch Ricky playing I have the same feeling I had when I watched Drazen Petrovic (when he played in Real Madrid). You knew you were looking to a different kind of player, you were not expecting just points or assists or rebounds, just an special basketball player that appears every now and then (it doesn´t mean a MJ or a GOAT, only special).
I really want him to land in Sacramento, because the Kings fans seem to love him and treat him (I´m talking about the comments I saw in Rubio´s videos) with respect.
Your post is the best – and most complete – I´ve read about Ricky (and, believe me, I read many).
by Cynskeptical on Jun 24, 2009 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the Rubio "haters" have plenty of logic
Namely that it’s extremely difficult to succeed in the NBA if you lack ideal athleticism, particularly when you can’t shoot very well. We “haters” also watched the Olympics and, while he made some nice plays, weren’t wowed by his play, particularly how he struggled to bring the ball up when pressured by Kidd, disappeared for long stretches, and had a dumb technical in the closing minutes. We also saw how Spain switched to a zone whenever Paul and Deron Williams were in, presumably because they were worried about Rubio keeping up with their speed.
Now, I understand that Rubio can improve his shooting, that he brings unique gifts, and a lot of people justifiably see a lot of potential. People are excited about him, and that’s great.
But don’t go saying the skeptics are irrational. There are plenty of question marks about Rubio, and even in the best case scenario he’s probably a good-passing, good-rebounding, scoring-challenged and underathletic point guard. That’s not the type of player I want at the PG spot, even if I know some people prefer true points.
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't you let this go?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's telling people to stop posting a Rubio thread a minute?
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And frankly, I'm getting pretty effing sick of people telling me what I can and can't post
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could go fuck yourself if you prefer an alternative
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're doing a fine job of taking the high road
With the 4th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Rickeke Flynenningday, point guard from Europe, Memphis, Syracuse, UCLA and Parts Unknown.
by otis29 on Jun 24, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Otis
Isn’t there a point where enough is enough. I mean, we all know where nbrans stands here. How many different times, and ways, do we all have to state what we think? Hasn’t arguing non-stop about this for a month become enough?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is ridiculous
If this debate is closed why did someone feel the need to post the millionth “OMG Rubio is amazing” thread?
I know what your opinion is half the time (watch: Rajon Rondo! Rajon Rondo!), it doesn’t mean I go around telling you to shut up when you repeat your opinion somewhere.
Seriously, back off. If you don’t like my opinion move the eff on.
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I felt the need to post this post precisely to a) close at least some of this debate and b) stress that positives on Rubio are not about being ‘OMG amazing’.
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Jun 24, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying the debate isn't closed or should be
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think it’s not and should not be. However, it has lost much of rational direction already some time ago. Recently it is mostly about waves of incomplete and disordered (though recurrent) arguments underpinned by much passion. Nothing against passion in general, but I am also joining those who wish Thursday to be over.
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Jun 24, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You
I appreciate this post for it’s brevity and knowledge KFfCE. Your perspective is greatly different than ours, which is why I was glad to read it.
At the same time, I’m so done debating this. I want Rubio or Flynn and nobody else. It’s just that simple.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see where are coming from nbrans
The difference (fair or not) is that there’s a lot of people here that want Rubio so they all want to say something, while you seem one of the few (not a bad thing) that has negative things to say about him. Also, if you pay attention a lot of these fanposts about “OMG how much I love Rubio!! and he’s amazing!!” come from new people who haven’t been here for that long so they feel the need post what they feel. (I’m definitely not talking about KFFCE analysis because it’s really good)
I want the Kings to get Rubio and I’m also getting tired of all the “Rubio is amazing” posts but that’s just how it’s going to be until tomorrow. You trying to argue your point with everyone in every thread is like you posting many “I don’t like Rubio posts.”
by eduardo_m7 on Jun 24, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why the hell should I have to take the high road?
No one is like, "Otis! SHUT UP!!! WE KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT RUBIO!! We know that you like him provisionally but that you think he’s a project!! Stop posting in Rubio threads!!!
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I’m just surprised you would resort to making a personal attack. You seemed to think it was uncool yesterday to “be a dick” while making a point.
With the 4th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Rickeke Flynenningday, point guard from Europe, Memphis, Syracuse, UCLA and Parts Unknown.
by otis29 on Jun 24, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A man has his limits
I’m just getting tired of everyone telling me I can’t post what I want to post. I usually don’t stoop, but I’m pretty tired of it.
Honestly, I understand it rankles people when I’m going against the grain, but if you look at the Rubio threads… I’m really not there. I took issue with someone saying Rubio “haters” are irrational. That’s kind of ridiculous. Maybe that’s me re-opening the debate, but it’s not like I’m EVERYWHERE relentlessly trying to convince everyone. I know people have their own opinions.
Anyway, this is just my request that people back off. What’s rankling people is that I disagree and am going against the grain, not that I’m doing it ostentatiously.
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright
If Sacramento drafts Rubio, I commit myself to write a fanpost about why drafting Rubio is actually not so positive investition (have no time before the draft) :)
ps – I would agree that Rubio’s ‘haters’ are way often irrational alike his ‘admirers’… That’s why it is important to distinguish between ‘haters’ and ‘critics’
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Jun 24, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I get what you're saying
But don’t casually dismiss your own efforts here – there was obviously something about your tone that pissed more than a few people off. It’s not like we auto-hammer someone for having a different point of view than the majority.
You may feel you were being picked on, but you were giving as good as you got. The fact that you took an argument you and I had in one thread – and whacked me in the head with it in another – shows that your hands are not exactly clean.
There is no doubt in my mind that much of the rancor right now will go away after tomorrow night (and possibly a two or three day mourning period after). So, I have no problem letting it go and moving on – if I held a grudge against everyone I’ve had an argument with on this board, I wouldn’t have ANYONE to talk to. :)
With the 4th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Rickeke Flynenningday, point guard from Europe, Memphis, Syracuse, UCLA and Parts Unknown.
by otis29 on Jun 24, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't hold grudges
If this is all over it’s all over.
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record -
I’m not amongst the “rankled.” Sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t, but I have a great deal of respect for your thought process (unless you’re pulling this stuff out of your arse, in which case I don’t).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 24, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, section
I have a great deal of respect for your opinion as well, but even more respect for your use of funny pictures.
by nbrans on Jun 24, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't make her smoke cigarettes afterwards
It’s bad for her health.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Rubio Post
I’m a huge Rubio fan. I’ve seen about 10 of his games over the past 2 years. If anything I think he’s the most NBA ready draftee. He’s been playing pro ball against men for the past few years in the 2nd best league in the world (the NBA being the best league in the world). He won the award for the best defender in the league. That says a lot to me.
I think a lot of people are trying to throw a lot of miss information around so that Rubio drops in the draft. I’m all for it if the Kings can get him. However, I’m starting to think that someone else will try and jump ahead of the Kings and take him. If Petrie feels Rubio is the man then he needs to try and move up and make a deal with Memphis. Kings need to offer Memphis their #4, #23 (and or #31) and KT for their #2. Lets face it whoever the Kings pick at #23 & #31 won’t make the team anyway… At least not in this years draft. So, offer those picks to Memphis and let them sell those picks.
Having seen him play, passing on Rubio will be a huge mistake if you ask me.
by AyyJude on Jun 24, 2009 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For fear of stepping into Shinola here...
I appreciate all the posts that have come through here—especially the ones on Rubio as there has been so much interest in the guy. In my opinion you have to be objective about him most are not.
I posted several pieces on him. I believe Blake was a safer choice than Rubio—Pookey , who’s great blogs are the reason I even came to STR blasted me (I took umbrage with the personal attack)
I wrote a fun positive/negative comparison to Pistol Pete
I believe Rubio has more upside than everyone in the draft except maybe Curry/Flynn/Evans but you can make a case both ways.
I believe NBrans makes a valid point but John Stockton was not as gifted as Rubio at the same age and look how he turned out (save your buts cuz he had Malone).
KFFCE is dead on that Rubio is probably not deserving of instant Hall of Fame discussions, but he is special!
NBrans is right about one thing too—everyone is entitled to say their piece here. This is a public blog and not a good ole boy club. If you want one of those then start a different blog and make it invite only.
Too many times including this post, people retort by fucking each other’s moms—grow up people. We have all read idiotic posts (including mine) but policing that is offering a counterpoint respectfully or ignoring the post. Let the crickets sing when someone seems like a moron. Don’t feed the trolls!
This is a quality site with amazing insight from people all over the world. Let’s not stifle its promise by posting like juveniles. There are enough of those that reply to AV’s posts on sacbee.com.
BTW – I would venture to guess that most of us need some sleep cuz this draft has a lot of us up to late anxiously awaiting the results of the Draft and lack of sleep makes a lot of us CRANKY BITCHES!
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Jun 24, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW – I would venture to guess that most of us need some sleep cuz this draft has a lot of us up to late anxiously awaiting the results of the Draft and lack of sleep makes a lot of us CRANKY BITCHES!
This is normally the reason things get a bit dicey around here. We’ve analyzed this to death and there’s very little new information to discuss, so we end up arguing instead. What is happening here is actually fairly tame for the site, in my (not so humble) opinion.
26 hours to go and we can all put the weapons away and hopefully get on the Kings bandwagon.
With the 4th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Rickeke Flynenningday, point guard from Europe, Memphis, Syracuse, UCLA and Parts Unknown.
by otis29 on Jun 24, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that 26 hours can't come fast enough
One reason it’s tame is because I’m not arguing with nbrans (and had no wish to this time) on every comment thread like i’ve done with certain “individuals” in the past.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like me you big meany!
On a separate note, I guess no one liked my Don’t Worry Be Happy lyrics. Either that or I am the troll!
UGHHHH!
Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt — When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults"
by SactownheartOChouse on Jun 24, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great fanpost
I agree that it will take time for RR to get his feel for the game in the NBA, as well as a feel for his teammates. It seems that a lot of his highlights are knowing where his teammates are going to be on any given play. He has a unique ability to find those teammates with spectacular passes. That is what I am looking forward to should he be drafted by the Kings. It will remind in that sense of when Jason Williams played for the Kings. Everybody says he has an incredibly high basketball iq. That being the case, I have no worries that he will continue to work hard on the rest of his game and excel as he has all his basketball life. Let’s hope he falls to us at the 4 spot.
by gtrman1973 on Jun 24, 2009 8:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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