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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Why the Hell Would You Trade Kevin Martin!?!


As a response to a posting on ECT,inc., I began seriously considering, for the first time, the idea of trading our most talented, reasonably-salaried, silky-smoove-shooting, very own, beloved Kevin Martin.  

Why the Hell would we do that?  Well, we probably won't.  But the following proposals make some sense on some level for both teams.  Maybe not complete sense, but I think each GM would at least give pause upon initially hearing the proposal.

Star-divide

Martin/K9 for Bosh: Leaves us shallow at SG, but Bosh's dynamic play might make a backcourt of Sergio/Evans/Garcia work with Noc/Greene/Casspi and JT/Hawes still in the mix, too. Admittedly, this severly sets back the growth of most likely Hawes and maybe JT. But, the idea of Bosh in the middle with JT is a fantasy-scenario for the Kings. If Evans can become a D-Wade-esque player, Sergio at PG is good enough.

Martin/Udrih for Mike Miller/Rubio: MIN definitely gets the greater proven talent, but we get out of Udrih's contract (hereinafter "k") and get our pure PG. I mean, I'd hate to lose Martin, and granted, Rubio is unproven at the next level, but I think we all believe there is something special there. Rubio making sweet-ass no-look 'oops up to JT for the finish is enough to entice me. Seeing Evans slash to the hoop, dish out to Hawes, who then passes to Rubio, who takes one dribble and delivers some kind of crazy assist to JT for a 180 dunk while the other team is still trying to figure out who has the ball would make me buy a ticket for a game...and be able to wait the few years it'll take for RR to "develop."

Martin/K9/Udrih for T-Mac/Aaron Brooks (maybe a 2nd rnd pick?): While T-Mac is talented, his days appear to be close to done.  Thus, HOU actually is getting the better end of the deal as far as talent is concerned, IMO.  But, this deal makes sense for the Kings, because they get out of Udrih's k and get T-Mac's monstrous expiring k ($21M).  Again, we acquiring a helluva young PG in this trade, and I think a backcourt that involves the speed and passing of Brooks with the strength and slashing of Evans is bound to be good.  Then, we get to go b-a-n-a-n-a-s in free agency 2010.  And by nuts, I mean we could sign Kenny Thomas, Brian Cardinal AND Darko!!!  How sweet would tha--ok, bad joke.

Martin/K9/Noc/Udrih for Nash/Ben Wallace: In what would likely amount to a salary dump and one-year Nash rental, the Kings lose their most talented player.  So, why consider this one any further?  Well, first of all, Nash.  His influence and ability to teach our young guys alone would be a great addition, even if for only a year.  Perhaps we talk him into staying longer...who knows?  But a backcourt of Nash and Evans gives us the same excitement as alluded to in the Rubio scenario, except there is no waiting for development to occur.  Plus, we get rid of Udrih and Noc's k's (not a benefit to be overlooked).  At the end of the year, we get a massive ticket to the 2010 raffle.  PHX probably covets that expiring salary as much or more than we do, though.  So, they'd have to be convinced that Noc has a place on the team and Martin is THE guy to pair with Amare (if they keep him).  Honestly, you could do a lot worse than a team that rolls out Amare, Martin, J-Rich, Noc, etc. on a nightly basis.  Speaking of Amare...

Martin/K-9/Udrih/Noc for Amare/J-Rich/Pavlovic: This one makes less sense for the Kings, unless they want to give up on JT or Hawes.  I think at that point you try to package JT and something else for a deal that brings back a baller at the 3 or in the backcourt to go with Evans.  But, basically, Kings get rid of Noc and Udrih's k's, Acquire Amare, the high-flying J-Rich and Pavlovic's expiring k.  The team would be Sergio, Evans, J-Rich, Amare and JT/Hawes.  A little on the small, yet somehow still kinda beastly side, I suppose.  In the end, probably not the best deal for either team.

Martin/K9 for Ty Thomas/Tim Thomas/Noah/Sign-and-Trade Ben Gordon: BG is likely gone from CHI-town this summer anyway, so if they can make something out of nothing with him, they're loving it.  Basically, for them, this would amount to giving up Ty Thomas and Noah for Martin.  The salary-conscious Bulls (who hope to land Bosh this summer) still get K9's expiring contract and one of the league's most reasonable salaries-for-production in Martin.  Not to mention, Rose and Martin in the backcourt would just be sick, and at that point, how does Bosh say "no thanks" to signing with that team?  Granted they lose out on Ty Thomas, but by drafting 2 PF's on Thursday, I don't think he is in their long-term plans anyhow.  The Kings, on the other hand, would have Ben Gordon and Evans in the backcourt along with a ridiculous frontline of JT/Ty T/Hawes and Noah.  Umm...while I realize that neither Evans or Gordon are pure PG's, I think that dynamic-duo would just give opposing guards shit-fits.  And if P-Dubb could institute some kind of open-offensive scheme, in which traditional play-calling is disposed of in favor of a crazy-ass up-tempo, all-out blitz, this could possibly be one of the most entertaining teams in the league.  BG reigning 3's, Evans slashing and dishing (or finishing), JT and Noah giving ridiculous energy and TT and Hawes bringing finesse and shot-blocking to the frontcourt is my idea of entertaining hoops.  Add Garcia, Noc, Casspi and Greene to the mix, and to say the least, opposing teams would know they're in for a long night of running the floor against the Kings.

Martin/Noc/Udrih for Gerald Wallace/Diaw/Raja Bell: Kings again get rid of Noc & Udrih's k's, while picking up the expiring k of Bell.  Granted, we inherit Diaw's over-priced k, but in the end, we save money versus keeping Udrih and Noc.  Plus, I think we could do worse than having Diaw as a back-up to JT.  Thus, the Kings would be Sergio, Evans, Wallace, JT and Hawes, with Diaw, Bell, Garcia, Greene, Casspi and Barakman off the bench.  I think Sergio is an upgrade from Udrih, Evans is a (temporary?) downgrade from Martin, Wallace is a huge upgrade at the 3-spot, and JT and Hawes stay put.  I think the team could definitely compete, and Evans/JT/Wallace offers some pretty troublesome athleticism and size for opposing teams.  CHA does this because, well, Martin, obviously, and to get rid of Diaw's k, if they think Noc is a good fit for their team, which, I think he could be.

Martin/Noc/Udrih for Rondo/Allen/Scalabrine: Rondo and Evans?  Good luck to any opposing guards.  Seriously, even Kobe may not score at that point.  Ok, I know better than that, but you get the point.  Kings get (in addition to the toughest backcourt ever) Allen and Scalabrine's expiring k's, which add up to quite a bit (especially when combined w/ K9's expiring k).  BOS does this because of the following well-known formula: Martin+KG+Pierce = Ridiculous scoring.  Honestly, even Udrih looks good in that lineup (if he doesn't KG and Pierce take turns punching him in the stomach during time-outs).  Udrih, Martin, Pierce, Noc and KG should be able to get it done.

Martin/Noc/Udrih for Mo Evans/Claxton/Joe Johnson/Teague: ATL would do this because Martin is younger, cheaper and brings a better PER over Johnson.  Not to mention they could probably use a scrappy guy like Noc on the squad.  I think Noc next to Josh Smith and Horford makes ATL difficult to deal with in the front court.  Add the backcourt of Martin and Law, and it's a pretty solid squad.  Kings do this for the usual salary dumping/cap space-creating reasons and to get Teague, who could be a nice fit next to Evans in the back court.  At the end of the year, Johnson, Mo Evans and Claxton all expire at about $24M (now combine that with K9's expiring k and we got a crap load of cap space).  In the meantime, our squad starters would be Evans, Johnson, (Mo Evans or Greene or Casspi?), JT and Hawes.  Garcia, Sergio, Teague, Barakman, etc. off the bench.  The real benefit is obviously dumping the salaries and getting the space.  With the boatload of cash, we can resign all our keepers and still have more than enough to entice someone worth having in free agency.  

Last Considerations - - These deals I think would be good, and we DO NOT give up Martin:

K9/2nd Rnd Pick for Ariza (sign and trade)/Morrison: Morrison's k expires at the end of the season, but the real deal here is Ariza.  I think Evans, Martin, Ariza, JT and Hawes makes a pretty decent line up.  Sergio, Garcia, Greene, Casspi, Noc and Brock Landers off the bench.  Again, we're a little small at this point, but still scrappy.  The alternative is the same deal, but with Odom.

K9 for Hedo (sign and trade): After acquiring VC, the Magic would probably enjoy some expiring salary.  Really we give up nothing, except for K9's expiring k, but who else are we gonna get in a trade or free agency that's much better than Turk-o-glue?

Udrih/Noc for Camby/Collins: Blah, blah, blah get rid of expiring salary, blah, blah...The Clips were interested in Udrih before we "stole" him away from them last summer.  Plus, Noc fills in nicely on that squad.  The Clips have a ridiculous overstock of dudes in the front court, as we all know.  One problem here is, the Clips may decide that Camby's expiring k is more valuable than an underperforming back-up PG and Noc.  And sadly, they may be right.  But it would be nice to have Camby on the squad, not just for his expiring k, but because he is tough and boards the ball.  Evans, Martin, Casspi or Greene, JT, Hawes or Camby.  

K9 for Ty Chandler:  This would be a minor coup.  I say "minor" because I really believe that right now, expiring salary is worth a lot and I am somewhat concerned about Chandler's foot or toe or whatever is bothering him.  Still, I gotta think that getting a tough guy like Chandler in the paint is a really good thing for us.  

Well, this turned out to be waaaayyyy longer than I had anticipated.  If you've hung with me this far, tell your significant spouse I'm sorry!  I tried to write a thought-stimulating piece that centers on one of our biggest talents in order to get a feel for what directions the team could ultimately go in, and to at least allow us to explore what we might be able to get in exchange for our dearest King.  I also tried to keep it somewhat within the realm of realism.  If you disagree, please explain your points. I'm curious to know what you all think.  It's a little scary thinking about giving up Martin, but depending on what we get back. you never know...in order to get, you have to give.    

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

Comment 48 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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I would trade him...

For a Rubio mix or even a proven pg. He is the only talent on this team that we’d get anything worthy for… Some times you just got to bite the bullet…

by Sammyp831 on Jun 27, 2009 7:20 PM PDT reply actions  

The more I look at this,

I think Martin and K9 to CHI for Ty Thomas, Noah, Gordon (sign and trade) and Tim Thomas is doable, and good for both teams. Gordon, Evans, Sergio, Garcia, Greene, Casspi, Noc, JT, Hawes, Ty Thomas, and Noah would be way too much energy and toughness for most opposing teams. I think it could work.

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."

by PhutureKings on Jun 27, 2009 7:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Nice post

It was definitely an interesting read. I really like the Rubio and T-Mac trades, and think there is a good chance that each side would agree to them. The Gordon trade is decent, but it gives too many big men: Noc/Casspi, Brockman, JT, Thomas, Noah, and Hawes. You don’t need more than three in a rotation. The Bosh trade, the Amare trade, the JJ trade, and the Rondo trade are all trades that I think the other team would turn down. The Nash trade and the Wallace trade are two that I don;t think are in our best interest. As for the bottom trades, I really don’t think any of them would be accepted by the other team either.

But nice post, I think the Rubio, T-Mac, and Gordon trades are all very intriguing.

by Big ZK on Jun 27, 2009 7:42 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Same here

Love the Martin/Udrih for T-Mac/ Brooks. We get a great expiring contract and a young point guard who can shoot and move Tyreke to the 2 (very important he can shoot) and we get rid of Udrih’s contract.

by HarbirD on Jun 29, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would sign off on the Bosh deal tonight

Otherwise I’d vote no one the rest…very interesting read though

by ElRonToro on Jun 27, 2009 8:28 PM PDT reply actions  

...if you negotiated the contract extension before you made the trade...

…people forget that Bosh could decide to play for Miami for less money in 2010. That’s not worth trading our best player for.

by R-Man on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dont have much time to post

but want to say you’re mike miller trade wouldn’t work since he was traded to washington along with foye for rubio.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement.

by Aykis16 on Jun 27, 2009 9:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Uhh...

Mike Miller was traded off to WAS for the 5th pick, so that one doesn’t work.

by CloudyEyes on Jun 27, 2009 10:03 PM PDT reply actions  

I was just going to say the same thing

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 27, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was gonna say that too

but you’re a douche, and CloudyEyes beat us both

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 27, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Way to be redundant

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 27, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Way to be a redundant douche, both of you...

This coming from the retard who completely dropped the ball on the Mike Miller trade.

God damnit.

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."

by PhutureKings on Jun 27, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Way to be completely and utterly redundant

Stephen A Smith and Dick Vitale are ready to marry you.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 27, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Same-sex-polygamy-marriage?

Doesn’t one of those things need to be legal before both are?

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."

by PhutureKings on Jun 27, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

3 gay Morman dudes?

That sounds like a CBS comedy to me.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm sure Megan will be able to fight 'em off

and if they get past her they’ll have to fight off my Spanish wife

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

and your child shall be:

Peter Vescey and the announcement will be on Hoopsworld

by betweentheeyes on Jun 28, 2009 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol bte

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rock on bro wit yo bad self

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously

I leave America for a week and Ed McMahon, Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett and now BILLY FREAKING MAYS die. I wonder who dies tomorrow… Hollywood will rejoice when I come back Tuesday since I’m obviously the lifeblood keeping them in this world.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement.

by Aykis16 on Jun 28, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Billy Mays death

proves Oxy Clean is poisonous.

lol jk im bad.

Punjabi by Nature

by Robby1987 on Jun 28, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Martin for Bosh

is probably our best best. It gives us the dominant power forward we need and gives us a healthy return for our investment in Kevin. Also, it doesn’t really screw up Hawes’ development too much because Bosh can play PF. JT will be fine off the bench as long as he gets plenty of minutes so he has time to play and learn and keep developing.

I’m playing around with the Trade Machine, which I really wish had updated rosters but I might be onto something:

Sac gets:
Rubio
Love
Cardinal

Minny gets:
Bosh

Toronto gets:
Martin
Nocioni
Kings Top 3 protected 2010 pick

I think all 3 teams do this. Toronto kind of loses out, but they’re getting prepared to lose Bosh anyway. I’d be willing to give them Donte to sweeten the deal. I think Minny does this in a heart beat. They get a huge upgrade at PF so they can afford to trade Love and Rubio probably won’t ever want to play for them anyway. We do it because our lineup then looks like this:

PG: Rubio/Sergio/Beno
SG: Evans/Cisco
SF: Cisco/Greene/Casspi
PF: Love/JT/Brockman/B&K’s Expiring
C:Spencer/Love/Brockman

Another way this could go is if the Kings somehow signed Gortat. Send Love to the Raptors instead which sweetens the deal for them

Yeah, I’m still stuck on Ricky. And I’m addicted to the trade machine. Isn’t the idea of Rubio making crazy passes on the break to Evans kinda sexy?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 27, 2009 10:46 PM PDT reply actions  

If you really want to play with the trade machine

You would be best off waiting until July 1st.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 27, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know

I can’t wait. It was fucked up last week for a couple days where only one or two guys would load for each roster. I was going nuts

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's because you don't know enough to get around that :)

Read Larry Coon’s FAQ to your unborn kid. Maybe they’ll pop out and be Albert Einstein JR. :P

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

My kid's already that smart

mother fucker already solved a Rubik’s Cube

and how do I get around that?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

How did you get a rubik's cube inside your wife's womb?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't question genius

all I know he was there on the sonogram with the cube in his hands and that shit was solved

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

You know it's a boy?

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lol

Jamie Lee Curtis?

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."

by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL @ u3

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not bad, but if we're giving up Martin, there's no way both Bosh and Love get re-routed to other teams.

I also think the draft pick should be lottery protected for two years. It’d be giving up a bit too much to send Martin AND a lottery pick in next year’s draft (which is going to be pretty good) to TOR for only Rubio and Love.

I think it’s well known that Bosh’s days in TOR are limited, and thus, dont think they;re losing out. MIN would like to get Bosh to pair along with Jefferson. For us, Rubio and Love for Martin might be worth it. However, I don’t know that Love is leaps and bounds better than JT. In fact, in a few years, I don’t think he will be. We’ll see.

Perhaps it should be MIN who send their draft pick to TOR, and not us. I mean, they are getting bosh, after all.

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."

by PhutureKings on Jun 27, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

you still think Rubio wants to play for sac???

he saw that we passed on him, hed be our silver medal :)

by silverguy on Jun 28, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

He'd still get to play in the NBA

for one of the teams he wanted to play for

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt Bosh re-signs with Sacramento or Minnesota

Sacramento maybe but there’s no way he signs with the team that just wasted KG’s prime. Minnesota would be giving up Rubio and Love for a RuPaul rental.

The Other Shoe: Ricky and "RuPaul" @ www.soulhonky.com

by SoulHonky on Jun 28, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he does

since we’d be able to offer him the biggest deal which he’ll want. I think he’d rather sign a max deal with an up and coming young team then do a sign and trade for a max deal that’ll where the team we trade him to has to give up some of thier good players to get him.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rubio is long gone

Anymore scenerio’s of Rubio and the Kings are going to kill me . Petrie passed on Rubio for whatever reason , and it’s never going to happen . No offense PK , as it was a good post and i do enjoy reading your comments also

Note : I dont dislike Rubio . I would of been more ok with Rubio then Evans (at this current time) However can we please move past this Rubio thing

by hectic2 on Jun 28, 2009 12:22 AM PDT reply actions  

Very interesting and entertaining post, PK

One reason that I would not entertain a Martin deal today – I think that his value is closer to the low end of his scale, due to his recent injuries. I’d like to see what Martin’s value might become when he’s playing in Westphal’s up tempo offense. And if he can stay healthy, you might be looking at a guy that could put up 27-28 very efficient points a game.

That said, I would do the Bosh deal. But I would not deal Martin for cap space. There is no one contract on this roster that is pulling it down (now that Thomas is expiring). Udrih (for example) is really overpaid due to the length of the contract. The year by year hit will not pull the franchise under.

Again, thanks for the great read.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jun 28, 2009 3:08 PM PDT reply actions  

You make a very good point.

Perhaps this next season is the one where Martin re-establishes himself after an injury-plagued season (a la D-Wade a few years back). Let’s hope so.

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."

by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I might make the Minny trade...

…but I wouldn’t do it for Rubio and Miller. Miller is no longer available and Rubio can’t shoot from outside and neither can Tyreke, so I don’t like them as a combo.

I might go for Flynn, Love and Etan Thomas for Martin and Beno. Not sure it works salarywise, and I agree Martin’s value isn’t as high as it will be later in the season if he can stay healthy, but I like those two guys a lot.

I want to see Tyreke in summer league. If he can swing playing point, there really is no reason to make any move at all as those two together could really work well if Evans can limit his turnovers and get others involved.

by R-Man on Jun 29, 2009 10:09 PM PDT reply actions  

Summer league is a red herring.

People come out of nowhere to get huge block and assist numbers that are meaningless. That being said if Tyreke just turns the ball over every time he touches the ball we know we are in for it.

by mayfieldcol on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would only do this IF I really liekd what we get back.

I would have to get some proven talent and some young talent.

by mayfieldcol on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 AM PDT reply actions  

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