The Kings Don't Need Another Center
Geoff Petrie told The Bee's Jason Jones after the draft the Kings will look for frontcourt help in free agency. This could mean resigning Ike Diogu to a small contract, or chasing a center of minor repute to round out the depth chart.
But the team doesn't really need the help up front. Not right now.
The Kings need to figure out what they have. Spencer Hawes is the only shotblocker on the team (though Jason Thompson showed great shotblocking instincts in college -- very little in his rookie season). We know rebounding is a problem, but the team is committed to a Hawes/Thompson starting frontline. Improvement needs to come there, with those two players (especially Hawes on the offensive glass and Thompson on the defensive boards).
Luckily, the rebounding will get help at other positions. Kevin Pelton's college translations for Basketball Prospectus project a rebound rate of 9.3% for Tyreke Evans. Among Kings guards, only Bobby Jackson (7.9%) had a rebound rate better than 6.5%. Even among the small forwards, only Andres Nocioni (11.4%) rates as a better rebounder now than Evans' projects. If Evans starts at the point with Hawes/Thompson up front, Nocioni at the three and Kevin Martin at the two-guard, in terms of rebounding it is the equivalent of starting two small forwards, two power forwards and a shooting guard. Your starting lineup would be above average in terms of rebounding.
What about the bench? Francisco Garcia is a mediocre rebounder at any position but point guard, which is to say Garcia is a mediocre rebounder. (He won't be playing point guard on this team.) Beno Udrih is average for a point guard, but would be a drain at off-guard. Ditto for Sergio Rodriguez. Donté Greene rebounded poorly last season (John Salmons poorly) at the three and four, though his off-season weightlifting program should help. Omri Casspi rebounded well for a small forward in Euroleague (Hollinger is a fan) and (as we know) Jon Brockman could be one of the best per-opportunity rebounders in the league (though he'd be expected to get few minutes).
As for inside scoring: Hawes came around a bit late in the season on the block. Thompson is working on his left hand reportedly, and was opportunistic under the rim if nothing else. Evans' major offensive strength is getting to the rim -- he shot better than 51% from two as a point guard at Memphis. Martin's ankle injury turned him into a jump shooter, so hopefully health will reignite his rim attack. (Oden October 2008, never forget.) Casspi is a dunk artist, Greene knows his NBA career depends on his willingness to attack. We won't be leading the league in points in the paint with this roster -- we might not even by in the top half. But it's not as much of a problem as you'd think.
We don't know how Paul Westphal will use this roster as constructed. But we do know these things:
- Thompson can play center.
- Casspi played power forward a bunch in Israel.
- Nocioni has played a surprising amount of power forward in the NBA (though I don't necessarily condone this).
- Greene should be able to play some power forward, assuming strength improvement.
The frontline depth chart looks bad on paper, with just Hawes, Thompson, Kenny Thomas and Brockman. But unless Nocioni is traded, there's a logjam at small forward. To get Hawes, Thompson and the two young SFs minutes, Westphal could use Thompson as the back-up center in addition to the starting power forward. When Hawes heads out for a breather or due to foul trouble, slide Thompson up and insert Garcia, Greene or Casspi, with Nocioni sliding to power forward or putting Greene or Casspi at the power forward defensively. (And remember: positions only really matter on defense.)
You may have problems if Hawes were injured, but even raw-as-carpaccio Greene started a couple games last season. Casspi has been playing professionally for years. Plug him in. This season will not result in a playoff berth, so earning the kids real NBA minutes (with the only stipulation being that they are put in a position to succeed) should be the priority. Signing a back-up center who expects minutes and touches doesn't accomplish that, unless said back-up center is young and offers something the team currently lacks. Otherwise, if you just want an insurance policy, you might as well resign Calvin Booth.
(You might note that Kyrylo Fesenko is young and offers something the team currently lacks -- a combination of size and power. Hawes has size, Brockman has power. Fes has both -- 7'1, 290 -- and I'd be pleased if he could be had for a future second-round pick. I doubt Utah's price is much higher, given the pending contract demands of Paul Millsap.)
(I also wouldn't be mad at a cheap contract for Diogu. A stellar rebounder, a great scorer and according to Bobby Jackson a dedicated practice player last year. I would prefer Nocioni were traded if Diogu returns, if only because the kids need minutes. Starting Garcia at the three is rough on the rebounding game, but starting Evans could potentially minimize the impact.)
1 recs |
153 comments
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Comments
I can see Noc getting traded if the Kings were to sign Marcin Gortat
or, dare I say, Hedo
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This team doesn't need Hedo Turkoglu
Hedo is an inconsistent performer. He can dazzle one night and vanish the other. Haven’t you all learned that from watching Hedo during his tenure in Sacramento.
This team needs a big man.
1. You can’t bank on Omri Casspi because he’s a rookie
2. Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes are your only legit big man with bulk and only Jason actually plays like an NBA big man that is fight for rebounds and puts people on their butts, hence the fouls.
3. I’m convinced Ike Diogu is a Jerome James clone.
4. Donte Greene doesn’t appear ready. This is a big year for Donte.
Marcin Gortat to me is Desagna Diop like mistake. Someone will overpay for size.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Jun 28, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JT gets alot of fouls because he doesn't know what to do with his hands
Not because he goes after guys.
by Deleran on Jun 28, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct - its all about hand check fouls with him
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Nocioni, Casspi, and Greene are all stopgaps at PF more than they are actual solutions. They are undersized and not particularly good rebounders, and I don’t care how well Evans rebounds, that’s going to be a recipe for rebounding disaster. Not to mention that they’re going to struggle defensively against good PFs because they’re undersized. (And I’ll assume Brockman won’t get real time until I’m proven otherwise). You’re also just one injury away from having no backup center at all.
What this team needs is a good, physical, 6’11"-7’1" backup PF/C who can block shots (I wouldn’t exactly call Hawes and his 1.2 blocks per game a “shotblocker”), rebound, and play defense as a third big. Whether that’s Fesenko or Gortat or Chandler or whomever else, if this team is going to start turning the corner it’s going to need a properly sized big who can actually play defense.
The solution to the SF logjam is to trade Nocioni and possibly Garcia, not to play guys out of position even more.
by nbrans on Jun 28, 2009 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Casspi and Greene are both in the 6'10'' area.
I don’t think they are really undersized for the PF position. Maybe not well suited for it, but there is definitely not a lack of size.
Hope
by Ultrakingsfan on Jun 28, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they're both really slight
They have the height but not necessarily the bulk.
by nbrans on Jun 28, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donte added 15lbs of muscle this summer
He’ll be a little less slight this year
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if he can guard the PF position
He would be a dynamite mismatch at the PF spot. But even if he has the height and build for the PF spot I’m skeptical he’ll be a good defender and rebounder.
by nbrans on Jun 28, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not really about size -
Its about Playing like a PF
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right about the solution.
But barring a Nocioni trade, which seems unlikely in my eyes, they need to find a way to get the kids minutes. Casspi played a lot of power forward in Europe. And we haven’t seen Greene play at 240.
Summer league would be a good place to test this stuff out. See if Casspi and Greene can do anything at PF.
by Ziller on Jun 28, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I'm praying for a Noc/Beno trade for Z-Bo/Mike Taylor
Saving money and opening up spots for the kids. It’s all the rage I hear.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Z-Bo = No no
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Jun 28, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his contract is better than Noc & Udrih's
I didn’t say I wanted him to PLAY.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Pookey
If the Kings trade for Z-Bo, the pieces have to be Nocioni or Beno.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Jun 28, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That is the only way I want to see Randolph on the Kings. You are trading two bad contracts for a slightly less bad contract with a bad attitude. But I think it would be worth it and I definitely think LA would agree.
by Big ZK on Jun 28, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having Randolph be our highest paid player
would leave a bad taste in my mouth. But I see the attraction. Now, if they’d take K-9? Whoo -Hoooo!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Noce has some value later
this yr, next off-season etc
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you being sarcastic?
because I’ve totally been all for trading for Z-Bo
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pook myself
the caveat for trading for Z-Bo is that he’s either bought out or asked not to even come to Sacramento
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would we want Randolf?
He’s another bad contract that will clog our salary for years who needs the ball in order to succeed and doesn’t make his team mates better. Sure he’ll put up 20/10, but at the cost of us developing our youth and preparing for the future. He won’t get us anywhere (see his Portland days; there is a reason they traded him away). Oh, and there’s the old issue that he NEVER HAS PLAYED ANY KIND OF DEFENSE AT ALL. If we did trade for him, assuming best case scenerio, we really wouldn’t be much better as it is, and we’d lose Nocioni, who I’m counting on being our guy to guard the Kobe’s and LeBron’s. I know he won’t shut them down, but he’ll do a much better job defending them than anybody else we have on the payroll.
by drex782 on Jun 28, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nocioni can't guard those people and won't do a good job slowing them down,
Garcia is probably your best bet of accomplishing that, however, we really don’t have any excellent defensive players on this roster.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
by moproblemz on Jun 28, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also said that the caveat to trading for Z-Bo
is that he never plays for us
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jun 28, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paying attention isn't useful anymore VF
You of all people should know this, chicken fucker.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 29, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
You aren’t a chicken heffer. You’re just a turkey chicken.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 29, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree as a stopgap it will work fine
I just don’t see it translating to wins. Maybe that’s not the priority right now, but if the team is going to turn the corner they’re going to need to improve their interior defense, shotblocking, and rebounding. Playing SFs at PFs won’t help that. But I wouldn’t mind seeing the kids get minutes at any position.
by nbrans on Jun 28, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're telling me that Casspi is absolultely a SF?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least until proven otherwise
Everything I’ve seen of him is 6’9" and very slight. He sure doesn’t look like a PF to me, even if he has the height to slide over to the PF spot from time to time. But we’ll see.
by nbrans on Jun 28, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How the hell can you, or the Kings for that matter, possibly know until he matches up with NBA PF's?
There are plenty of guys who play the very PF position with whom you could say that about. And, you’re underrating Casspi’s rebounding. Per minute, he was actually a very good rebounding. If you think his rebounding is bad, you need to look at a lot of players and see the rate at which he rebounds at.
I think you’ll find it isn’t the best perse, but it is very good.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many slight 6'9" power forwards do you know who are good PF rebounders and defenders?
Maybe he’ll be the exception, and I’m not saying I KNOW he can’t be a good rebounding and defending PF, just that it’s unlikely until proven otherwise.
by nbrans on Jun 28, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many concrete jungles exist within the existential universe of shellfish being?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn’t have to be a traditional PF for this team to be successful, he just has to do everything else better than his opponent.
by DesertFox on Jun 28, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, you're saying that our guys out-performing their opponents,
is the key to victory?
I’m not buying it.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s been so long, it’s easy to forget.
by DesertFox on Jun 28, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding.
Perhaps we should take another step back and inform the team that in order to win, all they need to do is have more points than the other squad at the end of regulation.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the need for a center
But I don’t have too much of a problem with Nocioni/Greene/Casspi/Brockman serving as the backups at 4.
This team absolutely needs a center, and exactly that, not a power forward. Ignoring talent, this team should be set in terms of minutes, and doesn’t really need anything else.
A team needs at least 3 guys who can play each position, and the Kings are thin enough with their only other guy who can play center (JT) is a foul machine. It doesn’t have to be a Gortat level player who gets in the rotation, I’m fine with JT as the backup center. But something between a Gortat and a Calvin Booth, a borderline rotation player for the inevitable foul problems.
by DesertFox on Jun 28, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rebounders are born, not made.
Greene will never be a good rebounder. Casspi??
I doubt we can pry Camby, Randolph or Kaman away from the Clips.
I still think we should have taken Blair with the #31 pick and kept him. He IS a rebounder!
Charles Barkley was a great rebounder and he was 6’6 at most. I would rather have Blair than a backup point guard from Spain and a bouncer from Washington.
by dbfish on Jun 28, 2009 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Legit question...
Why is Blair even ranked much above Brockman? They’re VERY similar players.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 28, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cause Blair dominated the low post in college
As well as rebounding. Brockman isn’t a very effective scorer, but he’s up there with rebounding. I think we would have taken Blair if San Antonio didn’t.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 28, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct Answer...
Blair played in the Big East on a team in the top 5 for most of the year.
Brockman played in the Pac-10 on a team that didn’t.
by Smills91 on Jun 28, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize we traded the #31 for the #38 at which time Blair was gone right?
With the fourth pick of the draft the kings select...
by kangsfan on Jun 28, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that is why he said...
I would rather have Blair than a backup point guard from Spain and a bouncer from Washington.
by cabz on Jun 28, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the deal on Turkulou?
Are the kings really pursuing him? 50 Million???
I love this guy.
by nothingbutnet on Jun 28, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yah right, kings like every other team are trying to get more than 20 mill under the cap
Too many great names out there next year to be spending 50 million on a 31 year old playmaker. i love Hedo but if some reason Evans plays well, this team has some potential and a star wants to come here, you have to at least hold out for that shot.
by KingsForLife on Jun 28, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I like Hedo, but he is too old to give him a $10M/year contract that is longer than 3 years.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has to be
a legitimate center or 4-5 added to the roster. That may be Diogu. If so, so be it. But it’s not Calvin Booth. He and Simmons and certainly McCants need to go away. And a 4-5 who can eat some quality minutes must be added.
Is the idea here that this group of SF’s shouldn’t be messed with for now? If so, I don’t know if that needs to be the same argument. There are a couple roster spots that need to be filled, and the appropriate filler is big sauce.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
by left hand on Jun 28, 2009 12:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would love to add either Gortat or Fesenko to this roster
Gortat is the better player now, but Fesenko is younger and has potential to be better. Also he’ll be much cheaper and won’t demand as many minutes.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 28, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gortat will deman Desagna Diop money...
No thanks
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Jun 28, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Kings could exchange Beno for Diop
I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is on Charlotte now
(no idea how Dallas got them to take his contract) and Charlotte doesn’t need another point guard.
by Big ZK on Jun 28, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might if they let Felton walk
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might not
Charlotte just gave Felton the qualifying offer.
by rc360 on Jun 28, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which means nothing
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an idea
How do people around here feel about Andray Blatche? I’m sure the Wizards would give him up for virtually nothing, since they seem to have a younger, cheaper, bigger prospect nipping at his heels in JaVale McGee, and starter Brendan Haywood is back healthy after missing most of last season. Add to that the fact that they’re flirting with the lux tax, and it seems reasonable to assume that he can be had easily.
But is he a fit? He’s got the size and athleticism to play PF or C, so he can be paired with both Shock and Hawes. He seems to have some shotblocking prowess, but I have no idea how his defense is otherwise. He’s young enough to develop with the team, and will cost just $3-$3.5M for the next three seasons. Seems like a worthy option to me, but I really haven’t seen him play much.
by furious.d on Jun 28, 2009 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blatche
Not bad. The Kings could do worse than add Blatche, assuming they could get him for cheap. He is a pretty good rebounder.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Jun 28, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another guy with the size
but not the mentality of a PF.
We need dirty work done
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Noce for Blatche(?)
I’d do that deal just for roster balance
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit...
I don’t know Blatche’s game well at all.
He does seem statistically like a guy who can rebound pretty effectively, but I’ll defer to lietothegirls on this one.
We do want somebody who can add toughness inside, and if Blatche can’t do that I take back my (mild) endorsement.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Jun 30, 2009 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'd have to deal with the timberwolves
He was traded there with Pecherov, Thomas, and Songalia.
"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas
by submison on Jun 28, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you have confirmation on that?
I don’t think Blatche was included in that trade.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jun 28, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't
Sub is just talking.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What??
Fudge, I seriously thought he was part of the trade! My bad.
"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas
by submison on Jun 28, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So maybe you won't run the world at 25
You’ll just have to settle for 26.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 29, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We TOTALLY.....
…NEED another 7 footer on this roster AT LEAST 1, if not two.
by Smills91 on Jun 28, 2009 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How does Rich Kelley help this team?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 28, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know but Randy Breuer would fix all of our problems.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jun 28, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, Randy Breuer
The poor man’s Chuck Nevitt.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 28, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rich mans Jim McIlvaine (still available at age 36)
Randy had that sad hair condition where all the hair on top of his head slid off and stuck to his back- what an ugly dude.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jun 28, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn...My mama always told me my back hair made me special.
Now I’m beginning to think she may have been less than forthright.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear Ostertag wants to make a comeback.
Victory is tasty.
by iashwash on Jun 29, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
we do need another center because we badly need interior defense and rebounding.
Thompson can often do a decent job when he’s not overmatched but Hawes is practically a small forward (albeit with slickt post-up moves) posing as a center as it is.
That said, I get the point that the Kings aren’t out there looking to throw a bunch of money at the center position right now. Which is fine since I don’t really see how any of the available names out there could help us much anyway.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Jun 28, 2009 4:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hawes = 7-feet, 245 lbs.
Pao Gasol = 7-feet, 250 lbs.
I did not know the only difference between a center and a SF is 5lbs.
Although, I’ll agree that if Hawes could add about 10-15 more lbs of muscle, it would be awesome.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
Because 5 lbs. is actually the difference between Spencer Hawes and Pau Gasol.
What?
by furious.d on Jun 28, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude said Hawes is practically a small forward.
I’m pointing out that there are other centers in the league with a similar build to Hawes who get the job done.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was just his point
He may have a center’s body, but he doesn’t have a center’s effect on the game, particularly on the defensive end. We need someone who does. We need someone who can guard the Pau Gasols of this world.
by furious.d on Jun 28, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...I thought he meant his build.
Because while we may need someone to guard the Pao Gasols, Pao Gasol is guarding the Dwight Howards. I thought he was saying that Hawes couldn’t do it based on physique.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
Sorry if I wasn’t being clear, Phuture. I second what furious.d said above.
Yes, obviously Spencer has the physique of an NBA center but my point was that he doesn’t play much like one in a lot of ways.
He seems like a hard working kid and he has some pretty slick moves and a nice scoring touch from quite a few spots on the floor, but on defense he can’t keep up with way too many of his opponents, even smaller ones. Spencer does block some shots now and then but overall the Kings had basically no interior defense last year and Hawes is overmatched on defense much too often. Also he’s not a very good rebounder.
I’m sure he will get bigger, but he’s plodding compared to a lot of NBA big men. He’s certainly not quick or athletic, and he has a gimpy knee, and that’s just the hand he’s been dealt with.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Jun 29, 2009 3:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
your not watching
Actually, Spencer gets up the floor much faster than a lot of big men. It’s one of his best attributes. Do you watch the games? Next year, watch how often Spencer (and JT) beat their men up the floor. It happens consistently. His lateral speed is not great. His speed up and down the floor is good. They are two different things.
His biggest problem on defense is with low-post players when he often lets them set up for position too early without getting physical and trying to not let them gain their initial position.
Regarding rebounding, his defensive rebounding is good – especially for this point in his career. His offensive rebounding needs to improve. What do you consider a good rebounder? Look at his numbers. They don’t agree with your analysis.
by Kusian on Jun 29, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd say very Avg Rebounder for his size right now...
which is disappointing to some fans. He definitely has a chance to get better. Some games Hawes will play about 30 and get 9 or 10 rbs but then there are other games that he will play about 30 minutes and get 4 or 5 rbs. Most of that is probably due to effort on his part. As he gets in better shape and gets more comfortable on the block hopefully he can grab a couple more rebounds a game (esp the offensive ones like you mentioned.
by ucla06 on Jun 29, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I said “on defense he can’t keep up…”
I was referring to Hawes lateral quickness (or lack thereof, in this case).
Spencer does get up and down the court fairly quickly, and he knows the spots where he wants to get to to try to break down opponents on offense.
But as you know Kusian, to get into defensive position and stay with the guy you’re guarding you’ve gotta have quickness, agility and the ability to move laterally. Spencer is lacking in those areas.
Actually, I do watch the games as I’m sure you also do. Which is why I’m surprised you’re not agreeing with me about his serious defensive liabilities. We consistently got hammered inside last year. Gazillions of laughably easy baskets scored against the Kings around the basket, and you and I both know that Spencer Hawes looked like a turnstile on lots of them.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Jun 29, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Hawes plays defense against mostlyncrappy centers
for 90% of them lateral quickness on defense is not an issue; strength is, and that’s where his weakness is. He has started to rotate well on defense to close off lanes, so in my opinion his defense weakness is that he allows opposing centers to set up to low before he challoenges them and then doesn’t have the strength to hold them out. One can be cured wirth desire and learning the other with maturity.
by ElRonToro on Jun 29, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, yeah
that’s true enough.
Hawes does get backed down quite a bit and he can’t challenge stronger opponents. But he’s also not quick enough to deal with smaller players who attack the basket.
Defending the interior is part of his job, and you don’t see more athletic centers like say Tyson Chandler or Andrew Bynum, or even Andris Biedrins or Joakim Noah give up so many easy baskets inside.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Jun 29, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Strength is a major factor/problem for Hawes. And the low post is his biggest deficiency. His help side is getting better (and that’s where he gets most of his blocks.) And I believe he is a better athlete than he is given credit for being.
Our guard defense is so amazingly awful that while it’s fair to put some of the blame on our big men for not clogging things up better, I still believe most of it falls on the guards. Aside from Bobby J, the oldest guy on the freakin’ team, our guards just don’t play D.
Look, there are no “great” defenders on this team. Still, Spencer and JT are not even close to our biggest problems defensively. Our guards are. Regardless, team defense must improve. Hopefully, the team will develop a scheme as well as trust in each other on that end of the floor.
by Kusian on Jun 29, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He tries to block every shot
than maintaining his defensive position
- gives up space way too easily
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giving up space
Has a lot to do with strength; most of the low post guys in the NBA are stronger than Hawes. I remember he did do well against Yao Ming defensively in the first half of game (this was the end of the year), and then just got tired because he couldn’t battle with Yao anymore. He ended up giving deep position towards the end.
From what I remember seeing throughout the year, Hawes actually got a lot of his fouls the past year because he had to rotate onto someone who got past one of our perimeter defenders as well. You’re right though: he does try to block every shot. If he could just work on holding his ground, and keeping his hands up, his defense could improve a little more.
by kingsfan300 on Jun 29, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gasol is at least and inch or two taller than Hawes
and has arms like a monkey
Whatever the ‘official’ measurements say.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
He was noticeably taller than Howard
by ElRonToro on Jun 29, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone cut off his feet?
listed at 6’11’’….I’m willing to conced that is with shoes…just as I assume Gasol’s 7’0’’ is with shoes…just looked like way more like a 3"" difference than 1. Howard is taller than Hedo who is listed at 6’10""
by ElRonToro on Jun 29, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rashard Lewis looked taller than Howard, and Hedo looked his height
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Jun 29, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that you mention it
Nate Robinson only dunked on a 6’9" guy. Amateur, let’s see him fly over Yoa Ming next year.
Hey, does a foot cast make you taller than shoes?
by betweentheeyes on Jun 29, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to make Stern line up the whole fucking
league by height so we can stop shit…..barefoot …no shoes socks or calluses
by ElRonToro on Jun 29, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the draft combine in 2004, Howard measured at 6’9" w/o shoes. don’t know if he grew since then as he was a HS kid at the time and some men have continued to grow up till age 25.
by homer simpson on Jul 2, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gasol is not a SF.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08LAL14.HTM
he played 75% of the minutes available to the Lakers. 53% of those minutes were spent at C. 22% at PF.
by homer simpson on Jul 2, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawes is a lot better defender than JT right now
Hawes actually can defend people without fouling, and he actually has a little bit of feel for blocking shots that JT doesn’t have yet.
He just turned 21, think back (if you’re old like me) to your build when you were 21, now compare that to when you were 26 or 27. If you’re like the vast majority of humanity, you filled out some. An NBA diet and weight room schedule is going to help that also, presuming Spencer does the work.
Hawes is never going to be Mutombo or Mourning, but he’s not hopeless on defense either. He just turned 21, in a couple years he’s going to be pretty good.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Jun 28, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I got fatter
I can’t actually think about what my “build” was like at 21.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 28, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My semi-realistic scenario...
…has the Kings dealing with the Pacers -
Beno + Thomas
for
Murphy(or Foster) + Tinsley
Afterwards we ship Nocioni to the Celtics for Scalabrine + Allen.
That way we keep our ’09, ’10 and add ’11 salary cap space while balancing our roster and becoming more competitive, IMO.
by Smills91 on Jun 28, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
New roster:
C: Hawes, Murphy(or Foster, Scalabrine
PF: Thompson, Ike(re-signed), Brockman
SF: Garcia, Greene, Casspi
SG: Martin, Allen
PG: Evans, Tinsley, Rodriguez
by Smills91 on Jun 28, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that realistic when there's a
$13.5M difference in salary between Noc and Allen/Scalabrine?
Also, I think K9’s expiring salary is more valuable than Foster (yawn). If we’ve waited all these years to take advantage of K9’s expiring k, it better yield more than that. And we really don’t need Tinsley when we already have Evans and Sergio.
Lastly, the free agent crop that has people intrigued is the 2010 class, not the 2011 class. Why bind our hands taking on the bad contracts of Foster and Tinsley? I’m not on board with any of this, and some of it is not even doable.
Sorry, I must respectfully disagree.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contract
Noc makes 7.5 million next year Scalabrine + Allen make more than 75% combined of Noc’s salary, therefore that deal would work.
by Smills91 on Jun 28, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you say "Allen" of the Celtics...
I’m pretty sure most people immediately think of a guy named Ray Allen.
Not Tony Allen. Getting out Noc’s k that way isn’t too bad, I guess. I still think K9 should net something more than Foster and Tinsley tho. Even Murphy, who has a double-double average last season is in a bit of a bad contract and getting old.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta say they need another big man
Even if he’s 11th man fodder. I don’t like the big man depth at the moment. I guess Ike would be fine, he can either match up with smaller centers or maybe put JT at the 5 and Ike at 4 in that scenario. Wasn’t there some big stiff project at Santa Clara or St. Marys, it was some NorCal school, I saw a blurb on him somewhere, I’m sure he didn’t get drafted, maybe bring him in.
by Bitgod on Jun 28, 2009 5:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yah I think he's talking about Jon Bryant
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 28, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Kings DO need another Center
The fact is, we need a strong PF/Center now more than anything. Spencer Hawes is a Brad Miller clone. He is all offense that doesn’t come over to help on drivers or block shots particularly well. We need a Tyson Chandler or someone like him to clog the lane and DEFEND THE PAINT!!!
I was so frustrated watching the big men of yester-year more or less giving up the lane to anyone who could get by our guards.
Also, I think the Clippers would make a great trading partner for us. Now that they’ve added Blake Griffin, they’ll be looking to unload one of their bigs who is eating up a considerable amount of salary, i.e. Chris Kaman or Marcus Camby. I’d say throw a package deal of Kenny Thomas and Francisco Garcia at either them or the Hornets, who, by the way, are looking to shed as much salary as they can and need a decent small forward due to how often Peja Stojakovic is (which, as we all know, is most of the time.) It would address several needs of their team while giving us Chandler. Ditto for the Clippers and us getting Kaman.
Then, there’s always the remote prospect of possibly putting together a package for a more marquee name such as, say, Elton Brand. The Sixers played much better without him last year and would be more than happy to get his contract off the books if they plan on going on without him. Personally, I think that if we can get the Sixers to take on Thomas’ expiring contract, Greene (who is on rookie salary) or Garcia, and someone else, I’d say go for it. That would give us a front court rotation of two up and coming young bigs and an experienced all-star veteran who plays defense.
Ideal starting lineup consisting of
PG- Evans
SG- Martin
SF- Nocioni
PF- Brand
C- Hawes
Not only that, with Shareef and Brand as professors, our kids just might start surprising everyone with how many new post moves they start throwing at people.
by drex782 on Jun 28, 2009 8:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Hawes, by the end of the season, was among the league’s top 20 shot-blockers, with 1.2bpg. He was in the top-20 despite having played erratic minutes for half the season until the Miller trade cleared the way. Many fantasy bball experts were suggesting that Hawes be picked up via a waiver-wire, if available, because he was blocking shots at such a good pace. So, I’ll have to totally disagree with you on your point about him not being a help defender or your assertion that he does not “block shots particularly well.”
As far as Camby eating up a lot of salary, his k expires at the end of this season, and we all know that expiring salary is a hot item right now. I think even the Clips can get more for a guy who averaged a double-double last season and whose salary comes off the book at the end of the year than another expiring salary and Garcia (who also has a PPP).
Lastly, Brand. Brand!?! Hey, maybe 5 years ago, but at $14M a year for 5 years (at which time he’ll be 35), I’ll pass. I don’t see how he would be that big of a help for us, especially at that price. And especially having to sacrifice JT’s growth. No way.
Bad all around. Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
first off
they barely played with him, let alone ‘better off with out’ him. Second, I don’t know why everyone is so eager to get rid of Cisco, that guy is valuable and the only guy who has even tried to be a leader. Third, those are all terrible ideas. Maybe Beno + Noce for Camby, then swing Camby + Thomas to another team at the deadline for some good pieces.
by VenomySnicket on Jun 28, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that's more like it.
And I agree about Cisco. Let’s see what he does this year. However, ultimately, if we have to add some talent to get the right deal done, I’d prefer Cisco to be the guy on the outs over Hawes or JT. Having said that, I’d like to keep around for at least a bit longer.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
like to keep ^him (cisco) around
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't trade Cisco
unless you are getting something very good
He’s the most clutch guy we have
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will agree that he's the most clutch guy now
But I think Tyreke becomes that guy now.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 29, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to be able to hit a jumper for that
something Evans wasn’t that good at in college
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he can get to the rim and score.
Different types of clutch. We’ll see. I have high hopes.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 29, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
The team is fine as it is. We have 12 players now, and probabky the Kings will sign a veteran to a minimum to fill the roster. GP will be resting while everyone else is making trades, and I don’t mind that. The team is good, we have potential, toughness and willingness to improve in the youngs, you all need to be patient, that’s how Petrie works, at a very slow pace. Besides, we could have fun watching this team play and how it develops.
The only way I see the Kings making a trade in the summer is if Westphal wants to add another piece, but I have my doubts. The trade could come in early February next season, that I believe.
by Kreuz on Jun 29, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or another hero

It’s a thousand degrees outside, kiss my ass.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jun 28, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha, that was funny...but I think I can BEAT that:

"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. I agree Hawes did get better after Miller left, but he’s still not an interior defender. I’d rather have Kaman or Chandler defending the other team’s big if we can get one of them.
2. Camby would be a great trade asset if we can claim him because of his golden expiring contract, which I failed to notice is up at the end of the season. I did, however, simply mention him to prove the point that the Clippers are looking to unload a big. I’d rather have Kaman, anyway, and they probably wouldn’t mind having Thomas’ contract to possibly just let expire along with Camby’s to pursue a big name free agent next year.
3. Brand is still one of the premiere PF’s in the league. He was in a system surrounded by players who do not fit his style. With Hawes as a high post center, it leaves him room down low to do what made him an all-star so many times and post up as opposed to Dalembert who plays in the same area as he does. And again, the guy will be able to mentor Thompson. I do see the point about the 5 year contract (which, if I’m reading it right, is now down to four), but I really think he’ll be a valuable asset for those years he would be with us. And I’m not saying break the bank to get him, but if we can pull a deal that makes sense (in my deal, I’m only suggesting swapping Garcia and Thomas for him, not any young talent that would set us back in that area) I would seriously consider it.
4. Francisco has been a major disappointment to me. He was supposed to come in and be a three point shooter, but from what I have seen of him, he doesn’t do that particularly well. I’d rather have Nocioni and that “never stop” mentality and sheer toughness he brings out on the court. Plus, we have an abundance of small forwards now with him, Nocioni, Greene, and now Cassmi. Out of all of them, he’s the one I’d rather see go the most.
by drex782 on Jun 28, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Umm...
This Chris Kaman? The Chris Kaman that has had one notable season in his career, which coincided with the year that he was playing for a contract? Pass.
Chandler is a fair fit defensively, but he has a foot problem that negated a trade last year, and he makes an awful lot of money for a guy that’s going to average less than 6 points per game once he’s not playing with CP3.
I like Camby, because he is a transitional fix. But if K9(woof!) has value as an expiring contract, then Camby has tremendous value as an expiring contract that can still actually produce. Memphis and OKC might be able to offer better deals for Camby’s services, as neither really has to send back any contract.
I agree a little more on Brand, except that he’s 30 and has missed 125 games over the past two years.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jun 28, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brand?
Brand has played a total of 37 games over two season due to a blown achilles tendon and a torn up shoulder. Already undersized, Brand is now 30 years old, won’t be ready for training camp due to the shoulder injury and is owed 65+ million over the next 4 year. Premiere players actually play, just ask Tracy McGrady.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jun 28, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
40% (ok .398) not good enough from 3
plus its higher when he doesn’t have to play point
by ElRonToro on Jun 28, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you kind of have to break the bank
given that the guy is making more than $14 million a year.
That would cramp our free agent possibilities.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
by Nocioni's "never stop" attitude you mean:
never stop chasing after his guy that blew by him?
never stop complaining to the refs?
Garcia’s 3pt shooting the last three years: .356, .391, .398 (nice trend)
Nocioni’s 3pt shooting: .383, .361, .399
Nocioni and Cisco both are nice bench players that are below average starters in the NBA. They are almost exactly the same guy, Nocioni’s a little better rebounder, Cisco is two years younger and still might have his best season ahead of him, which seems unlikely wih Nocioni. The problem is they are redundant, having one of them is great, two not so much. I’d much prefer getting rid of Nocioni though.
Professional Hyperbole Slayer
by ForThree on Jun 29, 2009 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
I now realize I did include Greene in my original proposal, and maybe he would be a good one to give the Sixers instead of Garcia, but I’d rather see how we can develop a completely raw talent, such as him, instead of keeping Francisco. Also, Garcia’s real contract kicks in next season which, if I recall, is somewhere in the $5 million per year range, which, combined with Thomas, is almost an exact match to Brand’s. I forgot this when I put this deal in the ESPN trade machine and included Greene to make the deal work. Maybe throw in a future second round pick or something like that and we may have a winner.
by drex782 on Jun 28, 2009 9:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to be a jerk, but...
It doesn’t make sense, IMO, to favor a raw talent that might not ever develop over a guy who is somewhat proven on some level with a reasonable salary-to-production ratio.
I’m not saying don’t wait on Greene, because I want to see what he’s like in another 2 years. The third year is imperative. Not to mention you’re still in favor of overpaying a 30-year old PF who has a history of missing massive amounts of games for another 4 years at about 15 million per.
Sorry, I’m just not ever going to be in favor of any deal that brings Brand here on his current contract.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 28, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Geoff is just talking about a backup C or PF. The current roster doesn’t have many options.
I’m not sure GP was indicating the team needed a dominate rebounder. Improved, perimeter defense should greatly help JT and Hawes pick up some slack on the boards. It’s tough to get in position to rebound when you have rotate over to prevent the constant layup line. The guy getting the rebound was typically the guy JT or Hawes had to leave underneath the hoop to contest a shot.
by bignerd on Jun 29, 2009 1:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Focus on the future
If possible, dump Nocioni/Garcia/Beno and give Brockman a decent shot as the No. 3 big man, have Greene and Casspi man the SF, pick up another $1-2 million big and young backup No. 2.
With Evans and Martin, this is going to be a fast team. I don’t think offense will be the problem. I am hoping to see some improvement in the defense.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jun 29, 2009 6:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Focus on the mid-season
I like Nocioni and Garcia even though neither are the long term answer at SF. But I don’t think Nocioni or Garcia gets traded until Petrie and Westphal are relatively confident that Greene and/or Casspi can handle the rigors of veteran minutes at SF. We don’t know yet what Greene’s development arch looks like nor do we know how quickly or how well Casspi will adjust to the NBA which means Noc/Garcia do not become trade chips until mid season unless we are trading for another SF which seems unlikely so I have a hard time believing either are on the table in July.
by BrooklynFan on Jun 29, 2009 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign more jews
Lets bring danny schayes back. Hes only 5 or 6 years out of the league, i potentially think that would be a strong signing and would maybe generate more of a fan base with israel and the jew nation! what do you all think!
by IM A JEW on Jun 29, 2009 6:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
you are too simple in your words to have them make any sense. If this displays your character, I would prefer not to read what you have to say.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 29, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and if that was supposed to be funny
it wasn’t.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 29, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no shit
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, guys...
“IM A JEW” joined our community within the last few days…need I remind you:
DNFTT.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jun 29, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
drake?
Hey, BY THE WAY, IS DRAKE the rapper jewish…Man we are taking over! Lets go Casspi!
by IM A JEW on Jun 29, 2009 6:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyway - I disagree with TZ
We need interior rebounding, defense and scoring at the rim
I just don’t know why so many here are averse to some toughness around the rim
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 10:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad argument
People aren’t averse to toughness around the rim. What people are averse to is one – paying too much for it when the team is a few years away at this point anyways, and two – picking one-dimensional players in the top 5 picks of a draft.
With the 4th pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select Tyreke Evans, STUD out of Memphis.
by otis29 on Jun 29, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You can't get there
unless you go there
(Yogi-ism)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love some toughness around the rim.
Not necessarily shot blocking but a big, strong guy that can keep other bigs from establishing position. Fesenko could probably do that.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement.
by Aykis16 on Jun 29, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense around the rim has to begin with our Starters
Having a backup that can come in and play 12mpg and give us some defense is great but at what cost? But, for the team to improve their defense it has to come with the starters. In our case it will have to begin with the guards, then improvement from JT and finally Spencer. The best backup in the NBA can’t change the overall defense of the team playing 12mpg. Hopefully, the coaching staff can come up with an intellegent and understandable defensive scheme that the players can implement.
Backups usually play against backups so their skill set doesn’t have to be top caliber. Bring in a Vet to backup at Center (maybe Calvin) and another young gun who cah play both the 4 & 5. Save the money for a time when we really need it to make a difference. Now, we need to play Spencer, JT, Donte, Casspri, & Evans major minute. Once we can accurately judge where their going we can spend our valueable cash & resources on what we really need.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 2, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did everyone see that story on Yao?
They’re saying he could be done for the whole season…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-yaorockets062909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I'm a limousine-riding, jet-flying, kiss-stealing, wheeling-dealing son of a gun!!! Wooooo!!!
by tlfairgo on Jun 29, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How much money
do the Rockets have invested in guys that spend a good deal of time NOT playing?
by Kusian on Jun 29, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baaad luck
But I’d remind you a few years ago we had C-Webb, Peja and B-Jax all on the disabled list a lot of the year
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jun 29, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely disagree with Ziller, to the point that I hope he was being sarcastic.
As it stands, we do not know whether Brockman can play in the NBA (most 2nd rounders can’t). Even if he can, he’s a very limited player at best – good rebounder but not very quick/agile and will be a huge liability playing defense away from the basket. With that in mind, and also keeping in mind that K9 could be traded at any point this season (and I’d want to get the best return possible not be hand-cuffed by the fact that we would need a big PF/C in return), our depth is almost non-existent.
Nocioni is capable of playing limited minutes at PF, but that really only makes sense against certain matchups (read: small PFs). If either Hawes or Thompson misses a few games this season, which is also a certainty (how many frontcourts make it through the year with both guys playing 82 games? did any of them last year?), we would be left starting Nocioni at the PF with either K9/Brockman having to play significant minutes or playing small ball regardless of matchups – that’s scary.
by cabz on Jun 29, 2009 3:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"Another center?"
Ok, the only legit centers the Kings have are……Spencer Hawes. That’s it!
Jon Brockman isn’t a center. He’s 6’7". I don’t care how talented you are. If you’re 6’7" playing against 7+ footers, you’re going to have a hell of a time trying to grab a rebound or contest shots. The only guys that I can think of who might be able to play Center would be JT or Greene, but they’d really need to bulk up.
Unless GP signs Diogu, Petrie will need to sign a Center.
…Maybe the Kings could pick up Heytvelt off training camp or summer league.
by CloudyEyes on Jun 29, 2009 10:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Josh Heytvelt - He can be our new Brad Miller
The guy was suspended for doing ’shrooms. My problem I am sure, but I have a problem with that.
(dumb enough to do them, dumb enough to get caught; If you going to indulge in organic recreationals, weed is nothing, but mushrooms? hallucinogenics? that is messed up. Guy got felony charges and they found the stuff in his gym bag, so don’t tell me he got caught trying it at a friend’s house)
by betweentheeyes on Jun 30, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He dealt with it, got reinstated, moved on
Let’s do the same. People do stupid shit in college.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Jun 30, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
I don’t live in a glass house but the point is the same.
by betweentheeyes on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he could play down low, I'd buy the stuff for him. He can't I'll pass. Get us a banger!
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 2, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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