We've Been Asking the Wrong Questions

by Tom Ziller on Jul 18, 2009 4:55 AM PDT in Commentary

Silly us, arguing over Tyreke Evans's positionality. This franchise is Next Level y'all, and has bigger concerns than a point guard without innate passing instinct. But finally, Resolution. We're on our way.

The Kings on Friday wanted to start all five of the players on their NBA Summer League roster who figure to be on the regular-season team. Doing that meant finding a place for 6-foot-11 forward Donté Greene. Rookie Omri Casspi has started at small forward, with Greene coming off the bench. So the Kings decided to go with a very back backcourt mate with 6-foot-5 rookie Tyreke Evans – Greene.

"It was interesting to see (Greene) play the two guard," said Kings coach Paul Westphal. "I kind of like that."

We don't need to trade Kevin Martin so that Evans can play his natural position. We need to do it so that Donté Greene can play his natural position. It all makes so much sense now.

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So Natt played small ball

and Westphal is gonna play giant ball.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jul 18, 2009 5:10 AM PDT reply actions

You have got to be sarcastic, right?

by kwill on Jul 18, 2009 5:18 AM PDT reply actions

Just showing us what we knew all along

That Greene is a 3 with 2 skills, not a 3 with 4 skills. PF he ain’t, and that’s fine in my book.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Jul 18, 2009 5:51 AM PDT reply actions

Werd!

No car flags necessary.

by JETisKing on Jul 18, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions

greene is an atletic 3 with my skills

Honestly, if he just lets the game come to him every now and then, he could be a decent player. At the SF position.

Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."

by Ellimist on Jul 19, 2009 4:26 AM PDT up reply actions

waiting for gavin making donte first day starter at sg since day 1!

by cwebb on Jul 18, 2009 6:28 AM PDT reply actions

+1

Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...

by kromeace on Jul 18, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Nice.

No car flags necessary.

by JETisKing on Jul 18, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions

I saw this

And assumed that Donte went off in last night’s game (I didn’t watch).

O Donte, when will you release us from this miserable limbo? When will you let our hearts and minds sing in harmony once more?

by furious.d on Jul 18, 2009 7:20 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Donte has skills

And the Kings haven’t exactly figured out how to integrate him yet. Which is fine. I don’t think he’ll be able to play SG much.

I thought one of Casspi’s virtues was that he could play PF. If both Casspi & Greene are natural SF’s, than their is a real problem playing them together which means that one or the other is expendable at some point.

Shall be interesting to say the least.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 18, 2009 8:23 AM PDT reply actions

It didnt sound like you were joking

but 2-8 shooting in summer league, you mustve been.

by passionforPERPS on Jul 18, 2009 8:36 AM PDT reply actions

elementary

my dear ~~Watson~~ Secton.

Once again, you have sleuthed the truth!

above, TZ with calabash and houndstooth cap (replacing his usual Wizard dome) and Section 214

by betweentheeyes on Jul 18, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Two (paraphrased) David Thorpe tweets to ponder...

(1) Jason Thompson just does not have the same lift he used to.

(2) Donte Greene has regressed over the last year just as dramatically as George Hill (of the Spurs) has improved. (With an implication that the respective organizations might have something to do with it.)

These are both from yesterday’s Knicks-Kings game.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Jul 18, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions

have no fear

Summer League is over and we can obssess over the next bit of minutae until pre-Season.

by betweentheeyes on Jul 18, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions

My questions for Thorpe

(1) Did you watch JT last year? He didn’t have much “lift” to begin with. He can throw it down when he has a clear path, but he was stuffed at the rim several times last year when contested. He’s a banger, not a flyer.

(2) How does a guy (Greene) that averaged 3.8/1.6 on .326% shooting regress? Not showing improvement? I’ll buy that. Disappointing summer league? I might buy that, too. But I don’t think that Donté has regressed. I think that he is still trying to figure out his game.

Of course, Thorpe is an expert and I’m just a local knothead, so I could be 100% wrong about this.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Greene

is averaging 15 ppg less this year than he did in the 2008 Summer League, and he’s shooting less than 30% from the field. From that perspective, the regression is pretty striking.

by furious.d on Jul 18, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Pretty small sample size, isn't it?

Also, do you think that perhaps Donté received a few more touches when he went for 40+ in one game for the Rockets last year? Also, last year the Rockets just sent him out to ball. It is pretty apparent that the Kings are asking Greene to experiment with specific aspects of his game.

Different team, different situation, 4-5 games. If Thorpe is calling it a VSL regression, fair enough. Otherwise, it’s a bit too premature, in my opinion. Too many variables in a far too small number of games.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions

anyone else see Paul Westphal interviewed on NBA TV?

He made comments about how much tougher he sees this years’ team. It has been discussed on this site many times already:
Evans, Noce, JT, Casspi, Brockman. Understanding the limiations of a “not particularly built for Princeton” offense, what say you all on the overall increase in toughness of this team as seen during the Vegas Summer League?

by betweentheeyes on Jul 18, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions

and yes, I realize this has a close to not much to do with the headline of this post

except a 6’11" 240 pound confused shooting guard is an increase in toughness

by betweentheeyes on Jul 18, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

With so many interchangeable parts,

this team’s philosophy should be that it has 72 fouls to give every night. Exceptions to that would be Evans (needs the PT), Martin (still our best offensive weapon by wide margin) and JT (just because I’d like to see him cut down on his fouls). This team needs to have the mindset that minutes are earned on the defensive end of the court. This will not make them a great defensive team. But it will make them a lot closer to adequate.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Leadership

Someone needs to take the on-court leadership role, especially on defense. Artest was the last guy to do it.

Any takers?

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Jul 18, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions

I'll do it.

But I’ll have to commute.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Jul 18, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

Oddly

I think that the “leadership” is going to come from the coaching staff for the time being. The average age of this team is 24 (and that’s including Kenny Thomas!). Martin is your best offensive player, but I don’t think that you can call him a “leader.” Evans is your future, but can you ask a 19 year old kid to lead while he assimilates to the NBA and attempts to learn the PG position? JT could be a floor leader, but he’s certainly not the type of guy that is going to take over a game. Noc? Udrih? No and no. Garcia has the attitude, but it’s hard to be “that guy” when you’re coming off the bench.

This is a team in transition, and Mitch Richmond is long retired. I think that these kids are going to have to adopt an all-for-one-one-for-all mentality, a bunker mentality, a “the whole world is against us” mentality. That’s the only way that it may work, at least for 2009-10.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs

good post

I think Evans could surprise us…he’s the PG, he’s got an assertive “get on my back” personality, but for the reasons you mention, if he does lead this next season, it would be a surprise.

Otherwise, I see potential in Los Tres Amigos, Noc/Garcia/Sergio aka The Hydra Espana mas Ardiento!

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Jul 18, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions

To me

that’s the best mentality and what better motto for a young team that just had the worst record in the league.

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Jul 18, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

rec'd to Section and Eduardo7

that is a very promising and realistic picture you both paint. The coaching staff now has “wizen sage” status written all over it for the first time since Coach Rick Adelman left town.

I am sure I have a grey hair bias, but Westphal is extremely likable and has the cred’ to be listened to. Coachie, Truck and Mario Elie – ditto.

Kevin Martin is a Mitch Richmond type leader – quiet but a great role model. Hawes has the smarts but I don’t know if his work ethic and fire are at leadership level. The rest of it you two already alluded to.

Having a coaching staff driven team is great for this young crew.This is exciting stuff.

by betweentheeyes on Jul 18, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Could Greene be the next Douby?

Shot well in college, Scored 40 in Summer League. Drains them in practice. But, can’t seem to get his rhythm in game situations.

We tried to make Douby a PG & it didn’t work. Now we’re trying to make Greene a SG. Maybe we should forget about SG, and put him back at his natural position, TV Celebrity.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Jul 18, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions

Greene could become the next Douby

if they try to pound a round peg into a square hole. Of course, he could also be the next Gerald Wallace. Or he could the next Rashard Lewis. Or he may just wind up being Donté Greene.

I think that Kings fans have to get used to the fact that when your team is packed with youth, it is packed with the unknown. Kevin Martin averaged 2.9 ppg at age 21. Rashard Lewis averaged 14.8 ppg, though it was his 3rd season. Gerald Wallace – 2.0 ppg.

Greene is slated to make $870,000 this year, and the team option on him next year is less than a million dollars. What’s the harm in waiting to see how this plays out?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs

Ummm

What’s the harm in waiting to see how this plays out?

What’s the harm? The harm?! I want immediate gratification! That’s the harm!

Well put, section.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jul 18, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Donte is tall and has a nice smile.

Does anybody have any more info?

by dbfish on Jul 18, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions

That's what I don't understand 214

Why are people trying to shove Donte into Mega-Stardom when he’s not anywhere near that?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 18, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't know

Usually the expectation of a 28th draft pick is to eventually develop enough game to become a serviceable pro.

It’s funny. Teams like San Antonio are praised for drafting overseas talent that may or may not ever come over to the NBA with their late 1st round picks, but if a team chooses a young domestic talent he better contribute right away?

I’m trying to figure out where this 21 year old kid, chosen with the 28th pick of the draft a year ago, is failing or regressing. We can afford to be patient with this kid.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I'm especially trying to figure that out when

You have Evans is a dominate ball guard who needs it in his hands, but, unfortunately, right now, so does Donte
I think part of this stems from the Bobby Jackson car incident (Kings fans—rightfully so—remember B-Jax in a very good light)
Caspi put up better stats than Donte

Here’s the problem Donte played the 2, 3 and 4. Casspi played the 3. It’s much harder to create a comfort zone where you play different spots in different styles than you’re normally accustomed. There isn’t an automatic switch button these guys can flip when they’re trying to change their games. It takes time, patience, and the requisite belief that the time/patience you’re putting into these guys pays off.

And for crying out loud 214, as you point out, he’s cheap!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 18, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Because

He’s oozing with potential…problem is its just that, potential.

"Las instalaciones son brutales!"

by shazzam on Jul 18, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions

I see where you're coming from

and I agree. He also oozes with other 21 year old bi-products – inconsistency, immaturity, exuberance.

I think that Donté is going to mature into a fine human being. I have no idea whether or not he will mature into a fine basketball player. I hope that he does. I guess my point is that he doesn’t have to answer the question today or tomorrow. There is time.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 18, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Do you remember when the Lakers might not have taken Magic with their 1st overall pick in 79?

I would love a retrospective of those stories sometime. (Totally unrelated, but I would love to see some of those memories from days, like when I was less than 1 years old, or in the Magic drafting case, not even born yet.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 18, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions

BOTTOM LINE WITH DONTE

If he doesn’t dramatically improve his shooting he’ll be in the d-league in 2-3 years. Right now the defensive strategy of other teams is give him about 4-5 ft. cushion and beg him to shoot.

Ba-da

by Ba-Da Bing on Jul 18, 2009 4:33 PM PDT reply actions