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Judging Geoff (redux)


Last week, I presented a post titled "Judging Geoff" in which I presumed to offer an assessment of the body of work of Kings President of Basketball Operations Geoff Petrie. With the benefit of full "50-50" hindsight, I based my assessment on available data and on my own historical recollection. I then used that assessment to draw conclusions about how the Kings declined so rapidly from near-championship status, and to ascertain what lessons might be learned "moving forward" (to use a favorite GP aphorism). The discussion thread that followed that post provided some good perspectives, and led me to modify my conclusions somewhat. So at the risk of beating a dead horse and/or stating what is already glaringly obvious, I've decided to offer this brief(er) follow-up.

Star-divide

Previously

 

In my earlier post, I categorized all of Petrie’s managerial moves as falling into the following categories: draft picks; trades; free agent signings; contracts to returning Kings players; staff decisions; and player releases. Within each of these categories, I came to the following conclusions: 

Draft Picks: Petrie’s draft record is somewhere between good and excellent. The decline of the Kings is not attributable to his performance in this area.

Trades: Petrie’s talent-based trades have generally been very good (although increasingly sparse), while his salary dump trades have been underwhelming but largely necessary. 

Free Agent Signings: Most of Petrie’s successes in this category came during the glory years. Since then, his record has been uninspired, although financial constraints may have played a role in that. 

Contracts for Returning Kings Players: Several recent decisions in this category have proven to be downright onerous, and have contributed significantly to the downfall of the once-mighty Kings. 

Staff Decisions: Adelman was an exceptional coach for eight seasons, and he was followed by three busts. The lack of coaching stability in the last three seasons has been detrimental to players and the team culture. 

Player Releases: The renunciation of any claim on Gerald Wallace was probably a major mistake. Other than that, player releases have been largely inconsequential.

While I still consider these conclusions to be valid, they overlook a key point that arose during the subsequent discussion thread. As it is, I gave Petrie good marks for drafting and trades, while I tended to point toward contracts and staff decisions as the key problem areas. While I still consider Petrie’s draft record to be almost unassailable, I left out one key point on the subject of trades---a point that has had a huge ripple effect on the other categories. That issue is timing.

 

Timing is Everything

 

In revising my assessment, I’d like to start with a quote from Bee columnist Sam Amick, who had the following to say when he issued Kings mid-season grades this past January: 

Management: D 

From Kings co-owners Joe and Gavin Maloof to basketball president Geoff Petrie on down, they created this mess. Rebuilding is one thing, but the way in which they tiptoed through the demolition process meant they didn’t get out before the debris started falling. Petrie’s recent trades have had little to no impact other than saving his bosses some money…

When the King traded Mike Bibby to Atlanta at the trade deadline in 2008, Bibby’s stock had fallen to the point where he commanded almost no return value other than expiring contracts. If, however, he had been traded two or three seasons earlier, the results would likely have been very different. We all recall how Bibby excelled within a system where he shared backcourt duties with two solid defenders possessing excellent ball-handling and distribution skills (Christie and B-Jax), and a pair of frontcourt players who ran the high-post offense to near perfection (Vlade/Webber or Vlade/Miller). Once Vlade, C-Webb, Christie, and Jackson were gone and/or fell into decline, Bibby’s shortcomings---especially his substandard defense, limited ball distribution capabilities, and leadership deficiencies---became apparent.

 

A similar case can be made for Peja Stojakovic. From a talent and leadership standpoint, the Kings came out ahead in the Peja for Artest trade. But everyone knew that Ron-Ron came with a bright neon "Buyer Beware" label roughly the size of the Palace of Auburn Hills. He brought diverse skills and much-needed on-court leadership (something in which Peja was utterly lacking), but Artest was never realistically a guy that the Kings could build around; he was just a tad too psychotic. If, however, the Kings had unloaded Peja the previous season (or the previous off-season), the long-term result might have been more favorable. Peja was coming off an All-Star 2003/04 campaign in which he had finished second in the league in scoring. Like Bibby, Peja excelled in the motion offense, most especially with Vlade on the court. Together they carved up opposing defenses with impeccable precision. But once Vlade was gone, Peja’s game suffered and his value slid.

 

A like argument can be made for Brad Miller, who was also coming off an All-Star season in 2003/04. A late season injury in 2004/05 reduced his trade value, but overall his statistics were solid and his stock remained fairly high. By the time the Kings actually traded him last season, it was pure salary dump with minimal talent in return.

 

The timing issue is one where we have the benefit of perfect hindsight. The 2004/05 season and subsequent off-season was the critical period during which the trade values of Bibby, Peja, and Miller were very high, but where their future value to the Kings had fallen off considerably due to the aforementioned departures of key teammates. At that time, the Kings could likely have commanded major talent and/or high draft picks in return for all three players. Instead, the Kings presumed to reload the roster around a core of Bibby, Peja, and Miller, which in retrospect seems almost ridiculous. Three aging, slow, unathletic, defensively-challenged, leadership-deficient role players do not provide a basis for championship contention, as history has unkindly shown us.

 

Some may recall that during the summer of 2005, when the much-despised Phil Jackson was contemplating his return to the coaching ranks following a season in exile, the Maloofs tried to persuade him to come to Sacramento. At that time, they thought they had the makings of a championship squad. They were wrong. And Phil, to his credit, apparently understood that. Unfortunately, rather than showing any class, the Zen Bastard took a major cheap shot at Adelman by saying he never considered the job because the Maloofs didn’t fire Adelman first (as if that really had any bearing on the situation at all).

 

In any event, the overriding conclusion I make here is that Petrie (and the Maloofs) made the fundamental miscalculation of assuming that a team built around Bibby, Peja, and Miller could contend for a title. Many of us (myself included) drank from this same pitcher of Kool-Aid at the time. Even Shaquille O’Neal stated during the summer of 2005 that he thought Jackson should have taken the Sacramento job (although Shaq may just have been dissing Kobe). But Phil is nothing if not a good judge of winning talent and circumstances. He concluded that a self-centered superstar on a team in a huge media market trumps a small market team led by a handful of high-end role players. How right he was.

 

The Ripple Effect

 

In my previous post I pointed to the Webber and Bibby contracts as two major reasons for the Kings downfall. While that may be true per se, in fairness I must revise my logic by saying that neither contract really explains the Kings subsequent collapse, and, in fact, neither can justifiably be criticized much at all, given what was known at the time.

 

There seems to be near unanimity among StR readers that Webber’s max contract was unavoidable---the Kings pretty much had to give it to him. He was their best player and their co-leader (with Vlade), and the Kings were in the ascendancy and poised to challenge for the title. While a few warning flags did exist at the time, they were more yellow than red. And it’s not like the Webber contract singlehandedly brought down the franchise. Petrie did an admirable job of dumping Webber onto the Sixers at probably the only time that any taker was likely to appear. I maintain that the deal was a very good move, if only for that reason. It is likely (though can’t be confirmed) that Petrie subsequently tried to unload K9 (Woof!) as soon as he possibly could, but not surprisingly he never found any takers.

 

The Bibby contract is another one that cannot really be challenged. Bibby had proven himself as a clutch player in big games and a key part of the Kings’ success. Again, the problem with Bibby was not so much his contract as the timing of his departure. The Kings clung to the notion that a core of Bibby-Peja-Miller (later Bibby-Artest-Miller) could lead them in the direction of a title. The Shareef contract and the Wells offer were both made in this context. A true rebuild should have been undertaken beginning in 2005 or so, and built around assets obtained from the unloading of at least two of the members of the Bibby-Peja-Miller trio. More than any other, that was probably Petrie’s single biggest miscalculation as GM.

 

Lessons

 

It is always dangerous to claim to have learned unambiguous lessons from the past mistakes of others, assuming you’ve even correctly identified those mistakes in the first place. Petrie’s basketball knowledge laps that of the casual fan (such as myself) by several light years. Nevertheless, at the risk of incurring the wrath of those far more knowledgeable than I, these are the lessons that I take from past Kings history and from their current plight: 

1.  When it comes to the draft, trust Geoff. Nobody’s perfect, but he is pretty damned good. When he retires as President of Basketball Operations, hopefully he’ll consider a lower profile position as Kings Draft Advisor-at-Large, or some similar title. 

2.  Championship teams generally require All-Star talent, exceptional defense, and leadership. A title contender cannot be built around a core of aging, slow, unathletic, defensively-challenged, leadership-deficient high-end role players.  

3.  When in rebuild mode, stay away from guys with high mileage, non-existent defensive skills, and/or a history of attitude, performance, or injury problems. Neither Shareef nor Beno ever should have been signed to large contracts, and the Wells offer should never have been made. 

4.  When in rebuild mode, stay away from large contracts for anyone other than young, promising talent with minimal red flags. The Kings do not need Hedo, Ariza, Odom or any other such high-priced free agent right now, as their presence would only impede player development, gobble up limited budget, and (for the older stars) fall into decline at the very time when the Kings should be returning to contention. 

5.  Focus on developing young talent acquired through the draft and through trades. Leave enough future budget available to pay your young talent when their paydays arrive. 

6.  Establish and maintain coaching stability.  

7.  For talented but aging roster players, exercise great caution when contemplating large, long-term contracts. Consideration of sign-and-trade options for young talent and/or high draft picks may prove to be the better long-term move.

Those are my updated conclusions. I await your feedback.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

Comment 17 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Under "Timing is everything",

I still can’t figure out if it was all Petries fault or if it was the Maloofs trying to hang on to the glory days fault. IMHO it was more the Maloofs dragging their feet. Could be why Petrie is still here.

by dbfish on Jul 18, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jul 20, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I believe....

it would probably have a lot to do with the fact that we had a very long active playoff streak going and we still had the sell-out streak, so the Maloofs were reluctant to go into full-blown rebuilding and chase away all the customers as well as milking the past team for as much money as they can…of course this would be an entire fan post all of its own —→ whether rebuilding earlier would’ve avoided the financial troubles that the maloofs are in today in relation to the Kings and facilitate the building of a new arena or whether by delaying the rebuilding, the Maloofs were able to recoup enough money so as to not feel the pressure of selling the Kings and keeping the team in Sactown, if you explore that angle, maybe then it would make sense to delay rebuilding or to have rebuilt sooner.

Yes, you post takes into account the talent angle and that we should’ve perhaps traded Peja, Bibby and Co. earlier but you might want to consider the impact of at least 2 home playoff games and keeping the casual fans interest as long as possible in prolonging the Arco Sell-out streak.

by DowJones on Jul 20, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

All true

A rebuild is a tough sell when you still have a (relatively) competitive team and good ticket sales. The problem, of course, is that they were betting on a losing formula: minimal leadership, defense, and athleticism.

This strikes me as a lesson that has been very late in coming to the organization. As recently as one year ago, the Kings were eagerly signing Beno to a 5-year MLE deal (he of the minimal leadership, defense, and athleticism), and a few months earlier they refused to deal Ron Artest to Denver because the Nuggets wouldn’t include Linas Kleiza (he of the minimal leadership, defense, and athleticism). The 2009 draft suggests that the lesson has finally sunk in.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Jul 20, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Phil

was ever remotely interested in coming here. I think he just pulled a Van Gundy (or did Van Gundy pull a Jackson? Hmmm….) and just used the threat of coming to Sac as leverage to get what he wanted from where he wanted to be.

Please consider the environment before reading this signature.

by outrider on Jul 19, 2009 1:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Of all your categories Timing is probably the most difficult one to master

Bill Walsh was a master of unloading major talent and he was almost universally panned by the fans when he let, Joe Montana, Roger Craig and Jerry Rice go. In retrospect he was right but at the time they were unpopular moves. His philosophy was that he’d rather be a year too early in letting an aging star go than a year too late.

I think that one of Geoff Petrie’s best moves was unloading Webber’s contract. He is still hearing from us regarding K9 Woof) but at the time he made the contract there was possible way to anticipate K9’s decline. I don’t remember why we thought that Bibby, Peja/Artest, Miller were going to be a competitive core. I’m not positive that it was clearly obvious in 2005 but it was by 2006 but I don’t think it was obvious we would fall this far.

The coaching instability has to be a compounding factor and is totally unacceptable from a management standpoint. Petrie has to share in the blame for the failure to land a competent coach. He could have stood his ground and either been fired or resigned in the face of the Maloof’s insistence on hiring Muess and Reggie. There is one consistent factor in failing organizations and that is having a coaching carousel. The 76ers are the only team I can think of that has had success with multiple (6 in 10 years) coaches. Although I have high hopes for Coach Westphal, at this point we don’t know if he will succeed or not.

Excellent post. I agree with all your points. In grading Petrie’s reign as head of the Kings I think his greatest failures have been his failure to anticipate the need to rebuild and the failure to hire a competent coach. I tend to lay the blame at the Maloof’s feet but Petrie has to share in the culpability for the incompetence shown by the Kings in the last four years.

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Jul 19, 2009 6:14 PM PDT reply actions  

I’ve always been a fan of the Branch Rickey school of thought, in that it is better to trade a player a year too early, rather than a year too late.

I just wish Petrie was too. :(

by chri5 on Jul 19, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

So -

GP should have traded C-Webb before the knee injury?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 19, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Elaborating

GP decided not to chase Brian Grant with a big offer when his initial 3 year deal was up.

GP traded Richmond for Webber, so he certainly wasn’t a year too late on that one.

GP traded Williamson for Christie, so he certainly wasn’t a year too late on that one.

GP traded Wiliams for Bibby, so he certainly wasn’t a year too late on that one.

GP traded Hedo and Pollard for MIller (to replace Divac), so he certainly wasn’t a year too late on that one.

To recap, Petrie was right on point during the build-up.

While tearing down:

GP traded Webber for the trio of contracts. This was a year too late…GP should have known that Webber was going to blow out his knee.

GP traded Peja for Artest. I didn’t like that trade, but you can’t accuse it of falling under “a year too late.”

GP has traded Bibby, Miller and Salmons, and they all have gas left in the tank.

If you want to make the argument that GP has signed players to contracts that turned out to be ultimately bad, I could understand that. But the notion that he has held on to players too long is a bit of a stretch. Without the Artest trade, the downslide would have begun a year earlier and we probably would have dealt out of some of these contracts a year earlier. But we dealt for Artest, made the playoffs that year, and fooled ourselves into believing that we could rebuild on the fly. I would categorize it more as unfortunate circumstances than GP holding onto players a year too late.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 19, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You forget Christie for Mobley

Which also saved the franchise a lot of money.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 19, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was probably the one salary dump trade

That actually netted a positive talent return for the Kings (mainly because of Christie’s ongoing plantar fasciitis problems). But it was, as you say, a money saver more than anything else.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Jul 20, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Flash back to the summer of 2005

Or even the previous season. Vlade, Webber, Christie, and Jackson are gone or are being actively shopped. The glory years roster has been broken up. The Kings just got spanked in the playoffs by Hall-of-Famer Jerome James and the Sonics (or soon will).

The core now consists of Bibby, Peja and Miller. Martin is on the team but unproven after an inauspicious rookie campaign. Other than that, very few movable assets. K9, Corliss, and Skinner don’t qualify. The rest of the team consists of journeyman types. What do you do?

What Petrie did was that he decided to reload around the core of Bibby, Peja, and Miller. None of those guys play defense. None are leaders. None are athletic. They were all shooters and finesse-type players. All were in their late 20s and all three still retained relatively high value from their glory years successes.

That is a situation that (in hindsight) demands you start moving your most valuable assets for young talent and draft picks in the hopes of getting more athleticism, more defense, and more longevity. The longer you wait, the worse things are likely to get, because your core is getting older (and therefore more vulnerable to injuries), and they are never going to be athletic, defense-oriented leaders, as is required for championship contention.

One of those three has to be moved in that situation, and the first most obvious candidate is Peja. But I think you have to consider moving one or both of the other guys too. This team is not going to win a championship, so you need to think about rebuilding a team that will. And the only way you get high quality assets in that situation is by dealing the only (relatively) good assets you’ve got.

I have no quarrel with the timing of the pre-2004 trades (other than the trade for Nick Anderson). Several of them were brilliant. As far as the Webber contract, it would have been extremely audacious (and very controversial) if the Kings had instead executed a sign-and-trade for young talent and draft picks instead of keeping Webber. In the long run, that might have worked out better, but in hindsight it is probably not realistic to criticize Petrie for that. The Kings were movin on up, and Webber was their best player. And trading him in 2002/03 was probably not realistic either because everyone thought that that was the Kings championship year (following the infamous 2001/02 playoff exit). Few of us were paying attention (or were even aware) of his increasingly painful knees and what that might mean.

That is the lens through which I see the Kings past success and subsequent downfall. The 2004/05 season and offseason was the critical time during which the core players’ value was highest—-the optimal time to buy low and sell high.

Perhaps I’m way off base. But if so, I really don’t see where.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Jul 19, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

They were 18-26

Then they traded Peja for Artest, finished the season on a tear and put a pretty good scare into San Antonio.

I don’t recall anybody – ANYBODY – calling for the break up of that team at the end of that season. Hindsight is 20/20.

As an aside, it would have been interesting to see what the local feedback would have been if the Kings traded away every expensive asset at the end of that season for a combination of expiring/youth/picks. I wonder how many times San Antonio would have traded Tim Duncan using this logic.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 19, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was referring to the previous season, 2004/05

Tim Duncan is a leader, an MVP, and a many-time All-NBA player and All-Defensive player who has also been extraordinarily durable. So my logic would not really apply to a player like that.

I’m not suggesting that I or anyone else was calling for a rebuild at that time. I am saying that a core of unathletic, non-defense-oriented, leadership-deficient high-end role players cannot be the basis for a championship team. That was less obvious then, but it seems painfully obvious in hindsight.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Jul 20, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Kings glory teams had some great individual players, but more significantly they had above average starters who played well together in a terrific system. Divac-Webber-Peja-Christie-Bibby were more than the sum of the individuals, they were a t-e-a-m in the four-letter sense of the word. Individually, they all had weaknesses that, as a collective, were erased when they were running the motion offense to perfection—which made them such a beautiful team to watch. They never had a dominating closer, though I think Webber was figuring out how to be that guy about the time he blew out his knee, but because of how their talents complemented one another, they were poised (and should have won) a championship.

The problem with selling low and buying high in the offseason of 2004/2005, Petrie seemed to think there was still a window of opportunity. He had Miller playing well. He added Abdur-Rahim and Bonzie Wells, filling holes at PF and SG, then traded Peja for Artest, which was great value—and the Kings go on to have the best record in the league following the All-Star game, and played strong against the #1 seed Spurs. That was not an unexciting time to be a Kings fan. The team looked poised to continue this run the following year.

That’s when Adelman got the axe, and the team ran through a series of coaches. Abdur-Rahim never put it together (his knees, it turns out, were in fact bad), you’ve got Ron Artest to deal with, and chemistry issues so that now, you’ve got a new and inferior coach, and the team’s above-average players (Bibby, Artest, Martin, Miller) don’t complement each other so well—that’s when things start to go downhill. Plus there’s no star in that bunch—four guys, all starter-quality, the best of whom is psychotic (Artest) and none of the others of whom are strong leader-types. You give them a year together and it doesn’t work. Everybody’s value is down. So I think it’s hard to say 2004/05 is the time to rebuild. Petrie tried to build around a promising-seeming team . . . and it didn’t work, but pushed back the rebuilding, and as a result, here we are today—though it’s a shame they gave Udrih all the money last year. The writing was on the wall, then.

by tralition on Jul 20, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Several good points there

I didn’t spend much time on the coaching issue, but that is arguably as big a factor as any in the recent precipitous performance drop-off. There has been no consistency and no leadership from the coaching ranks since Adelman left. I believe things would have been considerably better had Rick stayed, but would probably still have gotten pretty bad, all other things being equal. He might have left on his own out of frustration in seeing his once successful squads fall into decline. In a way, I’m glad for him he got out when he did, although he didn’t get the respect he deserved from the ownership. The passage of time has been very favorable to Adelman here in Sacramento.

I agree about the second Webber trade. A lot of people in Sactown howled at the time, but Webber quickly proved Petrie right with his "I’m the man" approach in Philly when he no longer had the physical tools to back it up. The Sixers basically paid him $30M to get lost.

HoopsHype has a section devoted to GMs in which they list (among other things) the best and worst transactions by each GM. Previously they had the Richmond for Webber trade as Petrie’s best (and I fully agree), but they had the Webber for K9/Corliss/Skinner trade as his worst. So I sent the blogger-in-chief an e-mail last year making the case that the latter trade was actually very good, given the horrid circumstances at the time. In response, the guy graciously changed the page to show the Musselman hire as Petrie’s worst transaction; and now I am in complete agreement.

Essentially the Bill Walsh philosophy can be summarized as "buy low, sell high", and that is exactly what Petrie did not do. Had he foreseen the declining effectiveness of Bibby/Peja/Miller in the post-Webber/Vlade/Christie era, he could have moved all three of them about four years ago for beau coup talent and draft picks. (At least two should have been moved. Definitely Peja, and at least one of the other two.) There still would have been a transition, and people would have howled, but life in the Kingdom would probably look an awful lot better today.

All of this history is worth considering in the coming years as several of the Kings players mature. Many of the newbies to this site seem to think that we should trade Martin right now, which I think is an exceptionally bad idea. But a few years down the road, as he is entering his 30s, it may start to make some sense from the "buy low, sell high" perspective. We’ll see about that, but in any event, I hope that history’s lessons are not completely lost on the management.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Jul 19, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Geoff's big crime...

..was he tried to hit it out of the park with a squad that only had warning track power. (I like that he went all in, though.)

Yes, he could have torn it down earlier, but if you go for it and sign players to big contracts, you typically pay for it down the line, especially if you are hit with injuries.

If we had won a championship, however, there would be no second guessing here at StR. And I believe we were one Robert Horry three pointer from winning the brass ring, so I can’t get too bent out of shape with decision’s Petrie made.

by R-Man on Jul 19, 2009 10:45 PM PDT reply actions  

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