We Have Forever Left

by Tom Ziller on Jul 20, 2009 5:37 AM PDT in Commentary

Sam Amick has a predictably lovely update on Kevin Martin's ankle and Kevin Martin's spirit. In short: the ankle's good, the spirit's better. Martin said he's working out at 6:30 AM four or five days a week, and working out in the evenings as well.

Martin also talks up Tyreke Evans (his "eyes light up" when discussing how defenses will now have to account for two great guards on the floor) and Paul Westphal (he's relieved he now has a coach who isn't uptight when talking about the game). The most interesting stuff to me, however, was the only somewhat negative section, in which Martin rues the length of the rebuilding process and Amick asserts that Martin is closer to being trade bait than ever before.

I don't disagree with either sentiment: the rebuilding process is depressingly long (they all are), and obviously if things don't improve Martin will be one of the next to go. But this is overstated.

We're at the bottom. The upswing begins immediately. There is no longer false foundation (Ron Artest, Brad Miller, John Salmons) propping the team up. Seventeen wins does not overstate the core team's talent -- 34 wins, 38 wins did. I'll eat my hat if this team loses more than 62 games again next year. Teams show decent improvement on average after a sub-20 win season (something I'll have more on later this week), and the Kings in particular stand in decent position to get a bump: there's an impact rookie, improving players under the age of 23, and a near All-Star coming off a serious injury.

The Heat went from League's Worst to Fifth Seed on the basis of a healthy Dwyane Wade and the draft of Michael Beasley. Martin is not Wade, and maybe Evans is not Beasley. But we aren't asking for 40 wins, are we? If the team makes it to 25, we aren't bloody likely talking about trading Kevin Martin this time next year.

Further, Martin is 26 years old. He won't turn 27 until the midway point of the 2009-10 season. Some 27 players scored 20 points per game last season. Eleven were younger than Martin. Only two -- Kevin Durant and Ben Gordon -- didn't make the All-Star team. Martin is a year younger than Tony Parker and Dwyane Wade. Martin is one month older than Devin Harris, 2-1/2 months older than Danny Granger, 1-1/2 years older than Brandon Roy.

I think he has plenty of time, both here and in the NBA. Time is of the essence, but damn we have a ton of essence left.

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Comments

I've got your "essence" right here!

Good article. Lots of reasons to be optimistic for a decent bump in wins, I’d say something in the mid-20’s to low-30’s would be about right.

by Citadel 29 on Jul 20, 2009 5:49 AM PDT reply actions

PLAYOFFS!

Never surrender!

Hope

by Ultrakingsfan on Jul 20, 2009 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions

I want to see Kevin Martin retire a King.

I would be depressed to see him go.

Hope

by Ultrakingsfan on Jul 20, 2009 8:01 AM PDT reply actions

yes! still love Kevin

i’m super excited to see him and Tyreke play together, and to see him healthy again.

i don’t have a hat, but I’ll eat american hummus if we lose more than 62 games this season.

put me in, Coach

by LaBradford on Jul 20, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Gahh...

I’d rather eat my hat….

"Nobody roots for Goliath"
Wilt Chamberlain

by Sactownking9 on Jul 20, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions

That's incredibly rare

for a player to stay exclusively with the team who drafted him. We all know that. KMart will leave at some point; it’s just the business of the game.

Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!

by Shizzo on Jul 20, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Patience. Neat concept.

I would love it if the word “trade” could be banned from the site until February, unless it is being used in regard to one that has already occurred.

I also think it would be cool if you could set it up so that anyone who links to the trade machine would receive a severe shock to the genitals. I’m looking at you, Colleen Maloof.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Jul 20, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs

So what you're saying is...

Trade Speed already so we can start Donte? I like it!

Dip til I rip

http://reclaimingthetitle.wordpress.com

by Muff209 on Jul 20, 2009 8:03 AM PDT via mobile reply actions

I'm curious

Why would only 25 wins keep from having any trade talks regarding Martin?

when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??

by diehardkingsfan5 on Jul 20, 2009 8:34 AM PDT via mobile reply actions

It doesn't prevent trade talks

But at 25 wins there will be less panic and desire to make a sudden drastic move. 25 wins is not a lot, but a 9 win improvement in one season is a good step in the right direction.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jul 20, 2009 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes

This.

by Tom Ziller on Jul 20, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions

I see your point...

but is the number of wins really an issue in that regard, or does Martin’s likelihood of being traded rise and fall on how well Evans plays and how well they play together in the back court?

by cabz on Jul 20, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes and no

It’s possible that Tyreke Evans will prove himself to be a franchise player, and it’s possible that he and Kevin Martin won’t be able to coexist on the court. It seems unlikely that both of those things will come true (How many SGs are there in the NBA that are better than Martin? 3?).

What’s certain is that Martin is an elite scorer who’s young enough to rebuild with (but still a quality veteran presence on an inexperienced team), could still be improving (given his work ethic and the fact that he had been getting better every season before being derailed by injuries), and is one of the few players of his caliber that isn’t overpaid.

The point is that – not just for now, but for the forseeable future – Kevin Martin will continue to be a highly valuable asset to a team that doesn’t exactly have a surplus of them.

by furious.d on Jul 20, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions

Shooting Guards better than Martin:

Dwyane Wade, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy, Rip Hamilton, Vince Carter, Manu Ginobili, Joe Johnson, Andre Iguodala

Martin’s a great scorer, but he can’t play defense very well. If he learns too (and he’s still young) he’d be a top 5 shooting guard for sure.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jul 20, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Aykis16

Valid choices, but I would argue that Ray Allen is too long in the tooth to be considered, Martin is a better player now than Ray Allen is now. Also, Vince Carter is in the same ship as Allen, except that he produces more turnovers and needs the ball in his hands more. No way Manu is a better SG than Martin, sorry, but you missed on that one, IMO. Martin is invaluable to this team because if you want your drive-first mentality PG to pass more often, then you better have shooters and we have a fine one in Martin.

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 20, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Kevin is not clutch

Ray Allen, Vince, and Manu are all pretty damn clutch. They’re also leaders and play some defense too.

Would I trade Kevin for any of those guys? No. But that’s cause we’re rebuilding.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jul 20, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Let us not restart the Is Martin Clutch Wars

PLEASE.

by Tom Ziller on Jul 20, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Alright.

But he’s not :P

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jul 21, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions

I kind of want to see them re-start

I’ll get to re-read what you’ve been writing for the last 3 years.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 25, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions

I didn't make my point clearly enough

I was trying to address the notion of trading Kevin Martin to make room for Tyreke Evans by asking how many current SGs you would do that for. Certainly Bryant, Wade, and Roy (the three that I was thinking of). But if I have Igoudala and Martin, I don’t trade Martin. I play Iggy at the SF and Martin at the SG. Ditto for Carter. Once upon a time, I would’ve done it for Allen, but not now. Joe Johnson would be a close call for me, but I would probably do it if their salaries were equal.

As for Ginobli and Hamilton, I think you’re overstating their defensive contributions. They both play on great team defenses (or did at one point), but I don’t think either is so much better that he is more valuable than Kevin. And come on, praising VC for his leadership and defense is like praising a chameleon for its redness.

To sum up, by my count there aren’t more than ten guys in the world that would displace Kevin Martin as SG on my team (assuming that the PG and SF positions were up for grabs). The chances that Tyreke Evans will join that list in the next few years are very, very slim. If he does, GREAT!, we have a franchise player to build around and a very valuable asset to trade away. I’m not going to hold my breath.

by furious.d on Jul 20, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions

In terms of what is possible going forward, I wasn’t trying to make the point that Evans will likely prove to be significantly better at SG than Martin or that they will be unable to co-exist, but rather that I see that as a more likely scenario in which Martin is traded than whether or not the Kings win 25 games.

by cabz on Jul 20, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions

I see what you mean

But, at this point, I think either one would be a short-sighted move. Being struck by lightning might be 25 times more likely than winning the lottery, but I don’t plan my life around doing either.

by furious.d on Jul 20, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions

I see how 9 more wins is an improvement

In fact, I hope for it, obviously. But who’s to say that K-Mart isn’t going to hint at a trade himself. I mean would he really be happy with 25 wins, albeit a 9 win improvement. 25 is still a top 4 or 5 pick and doesn’t show much improvement or hope for the near future.

when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??

by diehardkingsfan5 on Jul 20, 2009 11:02 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

He doesn't seem like the type

Unless there was a sudden rift between him and either the coaching or management staff, I just don’t see it.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jul 20, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions

I know he hasn't seemed like the type and he most likely isnt

But anyone is going to get a bit frustrated with the quality of play and low number of wins.

And if he ever did ask or hint at a trade, I’m sure it would be in the most professional way possible. But what I’m saying is 25 wins doesn’t seem like enough to quell any rumors, whether any indication for a trade would be given from the organization or Martin himself.

when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??

by diehardkingsfan5 on Jul 20, 2009 11:27 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

how depressing is it

that 8 months later Speed is still talking about his ankle as less than 100%?

Word to management: If you downplay an ankle sprain, then the fans assume it is a 2 weeks of rest and we’re good deal. If it is an eight months of rest and we’re almost good deal, better to disclose that so that we don’t completely sour on the player in question.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Jul 20, 2009 9:13 AM PDT reply actions

At any point last season

did you think he would be fine in 2 weeks?

by Charlieb on Jul 20, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes

From November to April.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Jul 20, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Then you sir, are an optimist

by Charlieb on Jul 20, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions

maybe he is fine

But he is playing the old Jordan trick of saying your injured to throw off your opponents and the scouts.

Or he has done some serious damage to that ankle and will never be the same.

by Ice_9ine on Jul 20, 2009 9:33 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

His ankle has to be like mine. It is hurt off and on for the last like 5 years, nothing major, but trying to play basketball would be less than optimal.

by chri5 on Jul 20, 2009 9:36 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

the worst part of that

Is the lack of confidence. Don’t wanna go to the hoop, don’t wanna play D, don’t wanna shoot in motion or in traffic, don’t wanna play because who knows when it could get hurt again.

And like you said, that isn’t optimal, to just not play. Lot of pressure on Kev to perform. But even if he feels healthy, that worry, that emotional discomfort, will take a long time to heal.

I think he needs some hypnotherapy.

by Ice_9ine on Jul 20, 2009 9:42 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

Working out twice a day

on an ankle that’s not yet 100% sounds like a bad idea to me. I really hope he’s healthy this year, otherwise we’re done for.

by Rickyflip on Jul 20, 2009 9:42 AM PDT via mobile reply actions

Working out twice a day

Tells me that the ankle is doing well. It may not be 100% where it was, but that does not mean the same thing as saying it is still injured.

The injury could be healed, but the muscle strength may not be 100% recovered yet.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jul 20, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions

Getting stronger

is the goal to lessen the likelihood of it happening again.
The way he plays he tends to take a lot of punishment. I hope he manages to put some real weight on.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jul 20, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd like to see him get stronger, but not put on weight. He's a Rip Hamilton type or a Reg Miller...

…his speed is his best asset.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Jul 20, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Great Article

It should be noted that on our team, the average age is 24. The only guys above 25 are Kevin, Cisco, Beno, Noc and K-9. With how well Kevin shoots the ball, as long as he doesn’t sustain serious injuries, he should be able to put up 25 points a game till he’s 35.

As for him not being the #1 guy on a good team, I believe thats correct. But I think Evans can be that guy, and we already have great pieces around them. Spencer has the skillset to become one of the better centers in the league, and JT is a PF most teams would die for. And these guys are still developing.

We’re going to get creamed some games next year. But it won’t be as bad as last year. Our guys are one year older, one year wiser, they’ll learn to work together. We’re probably 2 years off from getting back to the playoffs too (should be enough time for the old teams to enter decline, like San Antonio and Dallas) so we shouldn’t be worried.

I have a lot of hope in this team.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jul 20, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions

Teams can make dramatic improvements in a year . . .

and for the Kings this next year might demonstrate this. Once again there offense will be fine, but if they don’t have a good defensive plan it won’t matter. I think Evans will have a big impact on defense. We finally have a guard who will bring the D. Bibby and Beno were not defensive “stoppers” , but I think Evans will be. What impact will this have on the defense as a whole? If Evans can hinder the other point guards he faces everyone on the team will benefit. The amount of wins will skyrocket.

Ba-da

by Ba-Da Bing on Jul 20, 2009 11:17 AM PDT reply actions

If Kevin can manage to stay healthy

and we add some more depth up front -

I think 25 is a low win total. 30? Maybe too high, maybe not.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jul 20, 2009 12:07 PM PDT reply actions

25-30 is probably being realistic.

Of teams last year, I think the Thunder are going to have the most dramatic improvement, maybe 30-35 wins for them this year. Then again the Wizards could be a top 4 team in the East when healthy.

In my opinion

Teams whose records should improve by a fair amount:
Thunder, Kings, Clippers, San Antonio, Washington, Toronto, Detroit

Teams whose records should decrease by a fair amount:
New Jersey, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Memphis (they’re just retarded and Z-Bo has never been on a winning team)

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jul 20, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions

I think he has plenty of time, both here and in the NBA. Time is of the essence, but damn we have a ton of essence left.

This is an excellent quote, and even thought it wasn’t addressed directly in your piece TZ, and one that harks back to the argument of what kind of trade value you would/should be willing to receive for Udrih/Noc at this point.

Good stuff.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jul 20, 2009 12:36 PM PDT reply actions

do we really have plenty of time?

Relocation is looming… I do think the fans will return if the product on the floor improves (both in win totals and maybe most importantly effort/competitiveness) If the team struggles again, and attendance remains anemic, I have deep concern that the rebirth of the Kings will be in a different city. Thus, I feel some sense of urgency in the process, not just for the entertainment value, but for the future of the franchise in Sac.

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jul 20, 2009 12:39 PM PDT reply actions

Longtime...

Great point about the effort, that was by far the woest part about watching the games last year. Sometimes, there was little effort from the entire team, with the exceptions of JT/Garcia/& Noc who always bring their best, at time and it drove me insane. I still watched every game, but the lack of fire was clearly visible and it would go a long way in getting the fans back in the seats if that problem was rectified. Let add this too, I don’t think Theus was well-liked or respected last year by the players and I think it affected their play.

by NorCal BillsFan on Jul 20, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Also important to note

All of the guys who you named as providing consistent effort were retained, and should feature heavily this season. Replacements for Beno, who deserves much criticism for his lack of effort, have been acquired. Kevin seems to be healthier, which should help his tenacity a great deal. Even Donté has competition for the future SF job from a guy who is universally praised for his hustle. Questionable attitudes were unloaded (Salmons, Douby, Miller).

I really think that the front office is taking seriously the lack of “fire” that seemed to plague last season’s team. Will it be enough to save the Sacramento Kings? No – it’ll take more than that, of course. But I expect an effort that will go a long way toward winning back the fans that didn’t see a team that was serious about winning last season.

by furious.d on Jul 20, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions