Developers: Cal Expo Arena Plan Isn't Crazy
by Tom Ziller on Jul 23, 2009 3:10 PM PDT
in Arena
Email
PrintThey came, they saw, they did not laugh in Sacramento's collective face:
Cal Expo and National Basketball Association representatives met with four major developers for what they call a "reality check" on their multibillion-dollar concept for a Sacramento Kings arena, a new fairgrounds, and an array of housing, offices and stores on the Expo site.
"What I learned this week is we have a viable project," NBA representative John Moag said. "There wasn't one developer who said, 'You're crazy.' "
This is what qualifies for victory in matters of a new Sacramento arena: when they don't laugh at you, you might have something viable.
For what it's worth, based on what I've heard, Mayor Kevin Johnson wants desperately to keep the team in Sacramento, and will go to great lengths to preserve the presence of the NBA in the city. But he prefers the long-dead downtown project. Keep that in mind, should this massive attempt fail.
By the way, the Bee's Tony Bizjak quotes both NBA and Cal Expo officials on the matter of being forced for the economy to bounce back. A study released Wednesday projected the state's economic recovery to come somewhere around 2011. Sacramento's economy could take longer, given the financial hits to state workers and the excessive impact the real estate apocalypse had on the area.
As a reminder, the Maloofs have said they need progress by March 2010. Which is quite a bit before 2011. As in, eight months away.
85 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I am encouraged!
I liked this plan from the beginning.
At least this is good news on the arena situation for once.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
According to who?
I’ll be perfectly honest, this is not my area of expertise. I’ve been rather disconnected from the new arena project (mostly because a failure could result in something much worse, and I ignore things that could make me sad). Hasn’t the primary issue been that a) the cost would be ridonkulous and b) the proposal idea was massive in scope?
If I’m wrong, let me know. But if I’m right, then I don’t see any developers objecting to a very large and expensive project. They’re business is affected by the economy as well, and I’m sure they love the idea of a massive project.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
My grammar is terrible today
Sorry, last line should read “Their business”, not They’re
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
The particular concern
is that, because of the scope of the project, the developers worry about get the funding to pull it off. And no one wants to sink time/resources into a project which may not get off the ground. It’s a non-starter in this climate, so the “viable when things get better” stance is the sort-of “rally ’round the big project” posturing we’d usually be getting now.
As someone that works for national builders
I can tell you that the scope of this project is what makes it attractive. Building a strip mall, or an arena or a new shopping center may have lower up front costs, but it’s success is less predictable. By creating a new destination, the individual stores, restaurants, livable space, and in our case an arena work together to make a project succeed. Think of them as an army if you will. The sum is greater than the whole of its parts.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 23, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
lets get it started!
Its a win win win, all the way around.
Sacramento keeps the Kings, gets opportunity to create a model modern day community with mixed business and commercial interests. Cal Expo folks get their remodeled grounds. Maloofs get to make more money in a better arena system.
by Ice_9ine on Jul 23, 2009 3:43 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
the city and the NBA
Need to use this as an opportunity to create a whole new model of arenas for the 21st century, incorporating renewable energy techniques and responsible use of space in communities. Set an example. This will benefit everyone.
by Ice_9ine on Jul 23, 2009 3:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
If nothing else,
we now have proof that Ice_9ine is not Dave Jones or Steve Cohn.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Economy to rebound by 2011.
Yay!
Maloofs want to see progress by March 2010.
God damn it.
Can’t they just say something non-committal instead of implying that the whole thing is doomed unless everyone kicks down money to make them slightly richer at least a year before doing so makes good economic sense?
I am trying my best to stay positive about the arena proposal and the Maloofs, but they are their own worst enemies. I know we could have worse ownership, so please spare me, that doesn’t excuse their need, conscious or not, to keep this area’s guts roiling in agony about the future of the team.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Jul 23, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Andy
I know you are about as anti-Maloof as it gets around here, but look at the link in Ziller’s story:
“The bleeding has to stop sooner than later,” the NBA’s John Moag said. “The (Kings owners) have said they need to see by March 2010 that there is light at the end of the tunnel.”
I’d say this qualifies as at least a ray of light in that direction.
Well, less anti-Maloof
…than pro-Kings-in-Sacramento.
After they sandbagged the vote for the arena in 2006, it is very difficult to not read a veiled threat into nearly every Maloof utterance on the subject. I think the Cal Expo proposal is very exciting, but I believe the Maloofs see Sacramento as a 2nd or 3rd rate market where corporate revenues are concerned, and no one disputes that.
My feeling is that when you own a pro sports franchise, you need to be able to accept the possibility that it won’t make money every year, and if you aren’t prepared to fund it with your other holdings in those down times, you ought to not be in the business.
Maybe it’s simply the issue of hearing billionaires whine about losing money, and really has nothing to do with the Maloofs.
I’m going to knock back a $6000 bottle of wine and while I consider that.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
the wheels of change turn slowly
if that tunnel light grows brighter or begin to flicker or fade during the 8 months that will determine the force on which a decision to stay or leave will hinge.
If the Maloffs are going to leave it will become apparent sooner (six months) rather than later.
Of course, Downtown makes more sense. Never happen.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 23, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
These guys made their bazillions in the casino business
Which happens to be one of the more parasitic economic operations ever devised. Therefore any consideration of “the greater good” and “what’s best for Sacramento” cannot realistically be expected to factor into their decision-making process. While I appreciate their willingness to spend money to win, that is purely a reflection of their business philosophy, and not evidence that they are somehow first rate people looking to do the right thing for Sacramento. Anybody who thinks that the Maloof’s would put the interests of Kings fans ahead of their own business objectives is dreaming.
And so any suspicions that you have about their motives seems entirely justified, IMO. Jes sayin.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Jul 23, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
And honestly, why should they?
If it’s not economically viable to keep the team in Sacramento, why should they? They’ll rationalize that they’ll be bringing enough good to the new city to make up for any ill effects in Sacramento.
As a Kings fan, I think it would suck for the team to move. I’d rather the Maloofs sold the team to someone who doesn’t mind waiting things out in Sacramento. Because I’d totally understand their reasoning if they could do better elsewhere.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
They CAN do better elsewhere
That’s obvious, and completely beside the point.
They bought the team in Sacramento, and if they didn’t feel the reasonable return was enough, they should have kept walking, or shelled out for a team in a bigger market, instead of buying a team on the cheap.
Under any examination of the numbers, the Maloofs made a smart investment, and have profited handsomely, directly by the team, and especially through ancillary sources of revenue. If that’s not enough to keep them warm in the lean times, let them sell and move on, no hard feelings. The continued cries of “poor us” from these guys don’t fly.
And what’s more, since they stand to make an additional ton of money from any new arena, they ought to be willing to kick down as investors.
Money? Meet mouth.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
You talk like they have already left
Right now, they have given us no tangible reason to think they are ready to pull the plug, but we as fans are certainly doing the math.
This market may not be viable any longer. Maybe the economic recovery will take many more years here…maybe there is no feasible way to get a stadium built.
If that is the case, they have every right to move the team. I wouldn’t be happy about it, but I wouldn’t blame them.
Andy you seem to be the type of guy
when someone says " I will do everything I can" you interpret that as “There are things I can’t do” and begin to figure out what he can’t do. Life choices buddy …choose the lightness instead of the darkness.
Fair enough
But my jaundiced eye is able to move from “will do everything I can,” in order to glance backward to past events. Since the arena issue really became urgent in 2005-2006, the Maloofs’ statements and actions on the subject have not been encouraging.
If they want to keep the team in Sacramento, they will do it. If they don’t, they won’t. They cannot be “forced by circumstances” to do anything. I don’t know their plans, I only have what they’ve done (and not done) in the past to base my speculations. I believe ignoring what has already transpired would be naive.
Love,
Debbie Downer
P.S. Let’s get this damned project started, when it makes good fiscal sense to do so.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
many seem to hold the expectation - to some point - that the Maloofs want the team to fail in Sacramento
I truly believe that is wholly false. To move, even to what seems like a chance to grab at a very big market in Las Vegas, has it’s own attractions. I am of the strong belief that the Maloofs want to stay in Sacramento and make it work here.
Given that, I agree, if it just cannot happen and a realistic opportunity to grab financial success presents itself once that is determined, and not before, of course the Kings will move. But looking at the Milwaukees, New Orleans, Memphis, Charlottes of the league, Sacramento won’t go down alone.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 24, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't believe the Maloof's are trying to fail here in Sac
I think they’re trying to get as much money out of a new arena as possible.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Agreed PG
they will pony up as little as possible. Given the current economic climate around the country and specifically California, the Maloofs cannot rely on past deals in other locales as an example of what they will be able to finagle from the city’s coffers.
But it don’t hurt to try neither.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 26, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Let's start counting our pennies
So how many residents in Sacramento?? Let’s say they all give one dollar, how much is that? I’ll even put 20… Let’s get this going
The future begins now...
I'd donate money if needed to keep the Kings in Sac
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
You know Aykis
I wrote that thing half joking, half serious. Obviously, a small group of fans like us won’t be able to do much, but if it comes down to it, I’m down to helping any way I can.
The future begins now...
Of course I'm gonna want my money back if it doesn't succeed.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Heh. Roughly 2 Million people in the greater Sac area.
If we are each in for a buck we’d have just enough to open a Carl’s Jr. franchise.
I suspect this project runs a little more than that.
by unfair weather on Jul 23, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Very viable option
I remember when news of this project broke, most of us were very quick to panic and say, “A 400 million dollar arena got shot down, how the hell are we going to pull this off?”
I, on the other hand, see it completely differently. As many may remember, I am an architect in the development field (tough time to have a job, let me tell you). When I saw this deal, I felt relieved. There are so many more possibilities for builders to profit off a project like this then there is an arena. There is also A LOT more for a city to gain. The financial impact that a stadium provides in taxes is relatively small. But the amount of $ that a massive revitalization that includes retail and residential is huge. Take the potential tax revenue from an arena, then add sales and business taxes from a development of that size, plus the property taxes from any residential development, and it will be a lot easier for politicians to get behind an idea like this.
I will even add that our current state budget and recession make a project like this more likely. The city can give the whole “creating jobs in a down economy” speech while guaranteeing a large tax revenue in the future. Mark my words, politicians will be much more eager to get behind a project of this magnitude.
Remember, this is not an arena deal. This is a major revitalization project that just happens to include a new arena. You could even swing the whole, “stadium used for performing arts and stuff” card.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
And monster trucks.
Everybody loves the monster trucks.
AND KIDS TICKETS ARE ONLY FIVE DOLLARS!
(Sorry. Channelled my inner very-loud-and-annoying-commercial-voiceover-guy. Feeling better now.)
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 23, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
27
Since you’re a corporate stooge, and the next time you go to Sacramento before they build the arena, go to the railyards on 7th behind Amtrak,and go to Cal Expo, and tell me which you think is the better idea overall.
That’s the whole problem with this deal. Cal Expo was something that John Moag cooked up with the idea that the railyards wouldn’t work. I really wish the new rail-yards would be the site of the project. But, whatever.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Railyard
By far the best site, especially by the city’s standards. Having that smoking, barren hole right outside of downtown is a complete embarassment.
That being said, there is almost no infrastructure in the area, so you aren’t starting from the ground up, you’re starting from 20 feet below ground. And I’ll be honest, the way developers seem to run screaming from that place, makes me wonder if UP has adequately cleaned up the contamination from their century of doing business there.
It’s too bad, having a huge project like this on that site would be damned near perfect.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Corporate stooge? I love it!
Everyone else calls me a bleeding heart liberal!
That being said, I openly agree that the railyard is a better location for the arena. If it were up to me, that’s exactly where is should be built. However, as I said above, a stand alone arena will be much harder to get the government suits and the public behind. My main point is that the large scope of retooling Expo makes it easier to get pushed through.
I don’t prefer the location, but I see it has having a much better chance of getting built. Plus, I’d rather of the stadium there, than no new stadium at all
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 24, 2009 10:22 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Smartassery is not without it's rewards
So, 27, in fact you’re probably a corporate stooge bleeding heart liberal. Talk about a contradiction in terms. :P
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Guilty hippy?
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Jul 24, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought all hippies felt guilt
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The problems with Cal Expo
Are far outweighed by the one benefit – which is not having to take a ballot measure to the voters.
But the railyard plan would have been sweet.
For what it's worth....
I work in RE development, I’m from Sacramento orginally but live in So Cal now, and was in NYC before where I did some work on the Moynihan Station project (which included a new Knicks arena) in NYC. My humble opinion has always been this project [ARCO 3.0] is not without its downside - like everyone else, I think I’d rather see it Downtown at the railyard to activate that part of town, and I think I-80 traffic near CAL EXPO is already shitty without the Kings posting up on Arden, etc…BUT, this deal at CAL EXPO pencils out in alot of ways and may be a great way to activate a different area of Sacramento that doesn’t have as much going for it inherently like the railyards do.
Like I said, take it for what it’s worth, but I’m hopeful the right guy with the right vision will get behind this thing…no matter what: Long Live the Sacramento Kings!
by WhentheKingswinyouwin! on Jul 23, 2009 7:30 PM PDT reply actions
I really wish
That the Cal Expo idea fails and they somehow resuscitate the DownTown plan at the Rail Yards. From the viewpoint of what will make the most sense and benifit the City of Sacramento the most, while still accomodating the Kings is the DownTown plan. The revitalization of the K street mall and the overall revitalization of the Center of one of the most Beautiful Cities in the country is very important to our region and our future economy! New Arenas are moneymakers for EVERYONE. First, if they build a Downtown Arena, Sacramento will clean up the EYESORE in the center of town at the Railyards and replace it with a Jewel in the center of city. A destination point where the Arena would be surrounded with new business to cater to the Arena traffic and a new increased downtown population. Businesses like Restaurants that would be busier all the time, Big Hotels that attract conferences. Parking structures for convience for a fee. All the new businesses that sprout up in the surrounding area will be paying taxes that the State Desperatly needs without increasing income tax. Added with Old Town, The Railroad Museum, and the K Street Mall, it would modernize The Downtown area, tying the area together in a synergistic way that will benifit the entire region. It would provide a STATE of the ART MULTIPURPOSE VENUE that will host MANY MANY regional events that typically bypass our city because of the poor facitlites we have now. Hosting ONE AllStar game can bring in hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars alone. If they were to tie the whole area together with literail (the railyards already have some tracks that can be modified) the City could get ambitious and run a spur to the Arena and perhaps one to the AIRPORT! It would modernize our city like NO other city can. Sacramento is unique in the amount of open usable land smack dab in the center of the city. It would be advantageous to the whole region and lessen the traffic impact an Arena would create. Imagine taking lite rail from wherever you are to the GAME. It would be awesome, Green, and very modern! The Railyards location has the advantage of having major interstate freeways close bye to funnel the traffic, so there would be many avenues to get out of the area when Events are over. I m sure there are a disadvantages that someone else can address, but I would like to see Sacramento come into the 21st century. ARCO is 21 YEARS OLD. It has been an adequate facility, but it lacks many of the amenities that newer arenas have. Doesn’t Sacramento need to improve the downtown area? The jobs created (short term construction jobs and other long term jobs). will help the economy. This entire region would benefit in the future from this project. The old saying, you gotta spend money to make money applies here. So the question is does Sacramento want to be a growth region that is poised to take advantage of the upcomming recovery by creating an economic hub that attracts businesses and financing, or are we willing to go with the status quo and hope that the region doesnt decline in perception and economy.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Ladies and Gentlemen, FaStRmAn...
the most ignored person in StR history, bar none.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 24, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably because he writes in long paragraphs
Eventually I’ll get around to reading this if I ever give a shit. (Which I kind of do.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
(FaSt's modified statement--for those you can't read a wall of words)
I really wish that the Cal Expo idea fails and they somehow resuscitate the DownTown plan at the Rail Yards. From the viewpoint of what will make the most sense and benifit the City of Sacramento the most, while still accomodating the Kings is the DownTown plan. The revitalization of the K street mall and the overall revitalization of the Center of one of the most Beautiful Cities in the country is very important to our region and our future economy! New Arenas are moneymakers for EVERYONE.
First, if they build a Downtown Arena, Sacramento will clean up the EYESORE in the center of town at the Railyards and replace it with a Jewel in the center of city. A destination point where the Arena would be surrounded with new business to cater to the Arena traffic and a new increased downtown population. Businesses like Restaurants that would be busier all the time, Big Hotels that attract conferences. Parking structures for convience for a fee. All the new businesses that sprout up in the surrounding area will be paying taxes that the State Desperatly needs without increasing income tax. Added with Old Town, The Railroad Museum, and the K Street Mall, it would modernize The Downtown area, tying the area together in a synergistic way that will benifit the entire region.
t would provide a STATE of the ART MULTIPURPOSE VENUE that will host MANY MANY regional events that typically bypass our city because of the poor facitlites we have now. Hosting ONE AllStar game can bring in hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars alone. If they were to tie the whole area together with literail (the railyards already have some tracks that can be modified) the City could get ambitious and run a spur to the Arena and perhaps one to the AIRPORT! It would modernize our city like NO other city can.
. Sacramento is unique in the amount of open usable land smack dab in the center of the city. It would be advantageous to the whole region and lessen the traffic impact an Arena would create. Imagine taking lite rail from wherever you are to the GAME. It would be awesome, Green, and very modern! The Railyards location has the advantage of having major interstate freeways close bye to funnel the traffic, so there would be many avenues to get out of the area when Events are over. I m sure there are a disadvantages that someone else can address, but I would like to see Sacramento come into the 21st century.
ARCO is 21 YEARS OLD. It has been an adequate facility, but it lacks many of the amenities that newer arenas have. Doesn’t Sacramento need to improve the downtown area? The jobs created (short term construction jobs and other long term jobs). will help the economy. This entire region would benefit in the future from this project. The old saying, you gotta spend money to make money applies here. So the question is does Sacramento want to be a growth region that is poised to take advantage of the upcomming recovery by creating an economic hub that attracts businesses and financing, or are we willing to go with the status quo and hope that the region doesnt decline in perception and economy.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jul 24, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're a gem.
FastRmAn, maybe you should start showing up at city council meetings and speaking.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 24, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope that's sarcasm
Because that definitely seems like it. LOL
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I feel bad about not reading Pookey's re-write
but I still didn’t
by betweentheeyes on Jul 24, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Awesome
Thanks for doing that pookey.
FaStRmAn, you have good opinions that could add a lot to these discussions, I just really struggle with the wall-o-words approach. Add just a few breaks, like what pookey did, and it suddenly becomes a lot better.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Hey not a problem.
I was using my Iphone, so it looked a lot less like a wall of words :-) Which reminds me to thank you guys for making it so that we can post while mobile! It was weird to be able to access the site on the go, but not to be able to post..
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Can I suggest if you're going to write something that long
You definitely need to think about 5 or 6 paragraphs at a BARE MINIMUM regardless of what it looked ilke on your phone.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And Fast
When you posted before, you did the same thing. That isn’t an excuse.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And Fast: One other thing
G is absolutely right when he says you bring something to the conversation. But, how you write this stuff matters bro, and if it looks like shit, nobody is gonna read it.
You didn’t have the iPhone excuse until recently. Please, when you use paragraphs you’re eminently more readable.
That’s all I have to say on this matter.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Seconded
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Jul 25, 2009 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for the effort
But I still stopped halfway through the second paragraph. I guess I’m kind of a “comment snob”.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 24, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I liked the first version.
I tok it like he got more and more excited, was talking faster and faster and forgot to take a breath, perspiration breaking out on his forehead, starting to kind of change color, and maybe falling right out at the end. Much more drama.
But that’s just me.
Lower their expectations and rise to met them
so what we need to do at StR
Is get a vote. Cal Expo or railyards. Get some consensus. Create a plan to suggest. Present it to certain public officials.
by Ice_9ine on Jul 24, 2009 10:14 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
It's not a function of location
It’s dollars and cents. My bet would be that 95% of the citizens would prefer the railyard to Cal Expo, but the majority of that 95% doesn’t want to pony up any money for it.
I say wherever it can be built, fine.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Therein lies the rub......
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Is there something funny I don't get with what I said?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
huh...huh...
you said “rub”…huh…huh…
(At least, I assume it was a Beavis and Butthead kind of thing)
Excuse me for pointing this out
Understanding an idiot’s logic means you’re most likely an idiot. Granted, you made a guess, but given how long I’ve known you, you don’t come off as an idiot. So forgive me when I say I don’t believe you.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No, I'm an idiot
I wasn’t before I started here though. ;)
by otis29 on Jul 24, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
so if Cal Expo is the more likely
Then we should focus on that. And make sure it is the best it can be. Someone mentioned earlier that perhaps Mr. Cohn isn’t exactly behind the Cal Expo Project. I wrote his office an email about what an opportunity this could be. His office responded the today and said to call his assistant and set up a time and place to discuss certain ideas of what the Cal Expo project should be.
So what kinds of things should be discussed? Who in the StR community wants to be involved?
Maybe we can at least put our ideas into an even more public forum. And maybe we can keep our Kings.
by Ice_9ine on Jul 24, 2009 3:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Public transit!
The current plan is a joke. Also, I think there should be a smaller alternate, but I’m not sure that’s in the cards at this point.
Honestly, as long as an arena gets built
I’ll be happy. Railyards would have been better, but I’d rather focus on the more viable plan, which at the moment seems to be Expo.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
agreed
And Cal Expo does have potential to be something completely new and different. A start from scratch community, an opportunity for the people of Sacramento.
If you use the word opportunity enough, politicians will listen.
So the leaders of StR need to help. They are a big part of this discussion.
Let’s make democracy work, for once.
by Ice_9ine on Jul 24, 2009 3:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Sadly, I agree too...
I would rather a bad idea that gets an arena built at Cal Expo, than NO arena and the Kings skip town because of financial distress. But darn it, that Downtown idea REALLY had potential. I hope that somehow that Idea comes back around. I think with a new mayor who isn’t dummer than a doorknob pushing the idea, it might very well succeed. But for now, the Cal Expo plan is the only one being discussed, so lets all support that plan and see what happens. No one wants the Kings to leave.
The Mayor is uniquely qualified to measure the impact a new arena will bring to this region, not just Sacramento. Mayor Johnson knows the powerful impact of the NBA, and what it really means to our city to keep the Kings in town. It’s not just the prestige of being an NBA City. There are perception advantages to having a NBA team in Sacramento. I travel quite a bit and when people ask where I am from, I tell them Sacramento. And one of the first things they ask is if I like the Kings. The only other perception people have of Sacramento is the one Phil Jackson and Shaq put on us. “CowTown”.
Perception is a VERY powerful thing in business. If Sacramento is perceived to be a backwards little cowtown, investors and businesses are less likely to relocate or do business here. If the Perception of Sacramento is NBA City, that brings a connotation of success and future growth. It is all about perception in business.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Fast
I disagree with you about the Downtown Arena HAD potential. It still has potential because it’s not like Cal Expo has been finalized.
Cal Expo is a terrible mistake, and why the railyards can’t be the place is beyond me. It’s the obvious place for a variety of reason’s. Sometimes I wonder about people. (That definitely includes the Maloof’s.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Pookey
How does a railyards plan get financed? That’s really the problem.
You can’t call Cal Expo a “terrible mistake” when it’s the only plan that doesn’t require taking a ballot initiative to the public (IMO of course).
I don't know
By selling monkey’s out of the Maloof’s ass and telling them it’s dollar bills? I have no idea, but getting Cal Expo to work will be much more difficult than the railyards. The solution you point out, that is necessary, is probably more difficult to come up with, but Cal Expo is a solution that is being suggested as an alternative.
How anybody thinks that settling is worthwhile here I do not know.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Cal Expo is a desperate move. A hold back on the coffin's final nail. A waft of perfume from a pile of dung
The railyards got nixed for a ton of reasons – but as we all know it is truly one ton of a reason – money. Too many hands, not enough hand out.
The investors wanted more return on their investment, the Maloofs wanted a big piece of the pie and “gaurantees” the City wanted to grab taxes and offered light support (transportation, roads, few tax incentives) and nobody would budge on the budget. Can’t blame them but it soured the deal and created a lot of bad will. Things said in public that are hard to take back. That is why that area has not been revisited.
So unless different voices can be brought to the table and more compromised positions are taken – and again, in this economy financial projections have been altered by every reasonable business, none more so than real estate – then the “of course it makes the most sense”- Railyards project won’t materialize.
Oh, and with the NBA guys coming in, it hasn’t been for lack of trying.
Translation: money, money, money.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 26, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, great comment thread!
Lots of good thoughts and arguments about the arena.
I’m just going to spill out my two cents. My only gripe against the Cal Expo plan is Sacramento already has a huge retail development one block away at Arden. I don’t see many new stores, more every store just moving across the street. For it to keep the Kings and re-development is already apart of the process but it’s not the biggest bang for the buck plan.
The Downtown Revitalization argument: The location is a better benefit for Sacramento but no one ever mentions that there could be a different tenant besides the Kings. Pay for the cleanup and sell the city’s soul to the devil to attract a major corporate employer. Just for example, imagine if Intel moved it’s campus to the rail yard area, thousands of full jobs in the area each day would revitalize and spill into downtown. Plus, it’s not like Sacramento couldn’t find a major suitor for that land. If cleaned up they could offer it cheap, it’s next the city’s downtown and and ear shot away from the airport. It would garner a lot of attention from a major private entity looking to establish new roots.
Traffic argument. Just let me bury a hatchet in your head. You cannot develop anything without increasing traffic. Let’s I checked all cities have traffic issues
by bignerd on Jul 25, 2009 4:32 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
too smart
rec’d
and there you go bringing common sense into it.
I don’t know enough about City business, but it won’t keep me from commenting. Politicians not making a deal make me wary. I have lived in many places and graft is the subsurface of every, yes I said every, political floor.
by betweentheeyes on Jul 26, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
The current location...
I lived about two miles from Arco Arena for over three years… and I always wondered why they couldn’t build a new arena there? They still have the pit/foundation which is the remains of the football stadium that never happened. They have a ton of parking that could be created into tiered parking… so why not build a new stadium and restaurants there? After all the training facility is not that old… so why not there? It works…
Hard work beats talent when talent is hardly working...
Cause no one is willing to foot the bill in Natomas. The Kings are never going to pay. There is no motivation for the city to dump money out there. The game is to get private developers to throw in the cost of building the arena if they get to build and sell all these other goodies but there is no demand for that stuff in North Sacramento.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
