Should the Kings Even Be Thinking About 2010?
(From the FanPosts. - TZ)
It's a relevant question isn't it? The summer of 2010 (otherwise known as the summer of James, Bosh, and Wade) has everyone in the sports world nervously tapping their knees in anticipation. But what about our team? Is part of Geoff Petrie's master plan to rebuild going to involve this vaunted free-agent market? Let's take a look.
First lets take a look at how much space we should have available in 2010, as of now. Using sroufe's wonderful Post-Draft Salaries chart we see the Kings have about $43.5 Million tied up in salaries. If they don't give Sergio Rodriguez the qualifying offer, that will bring the total to about $41 Million. There's also team options for Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson and Donte Greene, which I'm 99.9% sure are going to get picked up so thats a moot point.
So $41 Million. For 2010, the cap should probably be somewhere around $60 Million. Gives us around $19 Million to work with as of now so we could potentially give out one max contract. Does this bring us a Bosh, Wade or LeBron? Perhaps, but more likely not. If money's equal, Hedo's shown us that players tend to go to the cities where they feel most comfortable. Does Wade leave Miami for Sacramento? Does LeBron choose Sacramento over New Jersey, New York or even Cleveland? And what about Bosh? All of these players will be offered max contracts by teams that are in better places than us, and thats a fact. I love Sacramento, but we're not contenders yet. Hell, we're not even aimed at hitting the playoffs this year. We're on the right track though. Landing one of those guys would get us back in for sure. I just don't think its very likely.
So lets look at the other good free agents in this class (Full list here).
Here's the top 10 free agents (not in order) in 2010 behind James, Wade and Bosh.
- Carlos Boozer
- Joe Johnson
- LaMarcus Aldridge (Restricted)
- Steve Nash
- Amar'e Stoudemire (Early Termination Option)
- Brandon Roy (most likely going to get a Maximum extension by Portland before he becomes a free agent)
- Shaquille O'Neal
- Rajon Rondo (Restricted)
- Rudy Gay (Restricted)
- Manu Ginobili
Out of those guys, I only see a few Sacramento would be interested in: Aldridge, Gay, Stoudemire and Rondo. Are these guys reasonable targets? Yes, especially due to their age and talent level. But Aldridge, Gay and Rondo are all restricted free agents. Also who knows how Rondo will play without the Big 3(soon to be Old 5)? And Aldridge most likely re-signs with Portland. As for Stoudemire, we probably would have a chance at getting him, and we have been known to show interest before. But the guy has never been the same after all his injuries. He is only 26 but he's coming off yet another injury riddled year, which is not a good sign of the future for a guy so young. Also, we'd probably have to outbid other teams just to get him to come to Sacramento. Gay is an interesting option since I don't know if he feels Memphis is right for him, but I don't think Memphis lets him go unless some team offers him a LOT of money. We'd be able to do that, but should we overpay for Rudy Gay? It's an interesting option. Everyone else on that list would be nice to have if we were contending, but we're not. We're building for the future.
So who's left? Tracy McGrady? Ray Allen? Aside from these two aging stars, not too much actually. But here are the players that I think are talented enough (doesn't mean I would approve of the signing) for the Kings to target in 2010 with some actual money (again not in any order).
- Tyrus Thomas (Restricted)
- Anthony Morrow (Restricted)
- Udonis Haslem (I've always liked this guy, even though he might not be the best fit)
- Amir Johnson
- Luke Ridnour
- Rafer Alston
- Al Harrington
- Travis Outlaw
- Kenny Thomas (9th option has to be K-9 right? Woof!)
- Roger Mason
- Andrea Bargnani (Restricted) (UPDATE: Just signed a 5 year, 50-Million extention with Toronto)
- Randy Foye (Restricted)
Does anyone on that list scream "Pay us money and we'll improve the team's talent for years!" With a couple exceptions, it doesn't to me. Of those players, the ones I like are Thomas, Morrow, Johnson and Bargnani. One of those guys would be a quality signing at a decent price.
So, with that in mind, should the Kings gear up for a 2010 run? Should they make a run at Stoudemire or Gay (in my opinion the only two top guys in the class we have a chance at) and possibly a nice complimentary piece like Bargnani? I don't know if its worth it. Look at that full free agent list one more time. A lot of teams are going to have cap space. Some more than others. I just don't think its worth it. For what its worth I think we will make a signing or two in 2010 but I don't think it will be a huge splash.
We have other options though. We have K-9's expiring contract. We could deal that for a player locked up long term that we think could help us. We have Nocioni and Udrih, two contracts we need to get rid of. Perhaps we could take advantage of a luxury tax team, such as Utah, and dump one or both of these contracts onto them so they can re-sign Millsap. There's also New Orleans who is over the cap. And if we don't make a signing this offseason (which is very likely) we can take back more salary than we give. We could trade Nocioni straight up for Carlos Boozer and that takes about 6 million off Utah's cap, 6 million they could do with whatever they want. Then we have Boozer and Kenny Thomas's contracts, both of which would be valuable at the deadline, or even if we just let them expire, and then we might become players in the summer.
Its too soon to tell with this team. I just don't think its a viable option to wait for next year. Too many teams are going to be competing, and Petrie has shown that free-agent signings tend to be his weakness. I would much rather rebuild through the draft and trades. To me, free agent signings aren't worth it unless you're looking for a piece that puts you over the top, or significantly improve your team. We're still working on even being in the playoffs, and I don't think we're in the running for any of the players that would significantly improve us (except Gay, and I think Memphis tries to keep him. Then again its Memphis).
What do you think?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
6 recs |
150 comments
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Comments
Having cap space
Will certainly help us on the trade front. That’s probably the area where Petrie will end up focusing.
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 7, 2009 5:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
my thoughts exactly
A trade allows us to get a star who wouldn’t necessarily choose us if he could choose any team.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Jul 7, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
The rebuilding of the Kings, in the shortrun, is going to come through Petrie activity in the draft and in trades. If you go back in the way back machine, there isn’t much of a historical precedence for Sacramento landing major outside free agents, whatsoever.
Frankly, the city is small, hot in the summers, far from a lot of things that young sports stars love, the franchise has been up and down, and there is the big arena issue. I love Sac and the Kings, but those are the things any free agent is going to run through his mind.
by Cyg on Jul 7, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
Although I have an irrational belief that we can and should sign Joe Johnson next summer to play SF.
by LPKingsFan on Jul 7, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe would be an amazing signee, but I don't see him coming out here.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
by moproblemz on Jul 7, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some interesting stuff here
But the notion of rebuilding around Rudy Gay makes me want to light myself on fire.
by furious.d on Jul 7, 2009 7:18 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You could say I'm Pro-Gay
He is long, athletic, can shoot and can really score. He is definitely a 3 and is super young.
BUT, being that Donte Green is going to magically transform into a better version of Rudy Gay this year, we don’t need him.
by KeonClark on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping the Wolves would acquire Rudy...
That way the NBA could have its first team in which Gay-Love is an openly expressed and encouraged relationship.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jul 7, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
When the Kings are concerned, I’m against a Gay marriage.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 7, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Agency is overrated in relations to superstars
I remember reading an article a few years ago that showed how superstars changed teams. Majority of the time it was through trade. Rarely does a superstar change teams during free agency. Honestly I can only think of a handful of superstars over the last few years that have changed teams.
However, looking at the list you presented, I would love to after either Amare, Gay, Boozer, Aldridge, Ty Thomas, and maybe Rondo. I also think none of those players deserve a max contract and may be hard to get without offering a lot of money.
Something I could see the Kings doing next year especially for restricted free agents is front loading the contract so a team that holds their rights does not have a chance to go after them.
I think your trade of Noci for Boozer would be a great one. It would add even more money coming off next season. I almost think a team that can add 2 of the superstars like Bosh, Wade, or Leborn has a better shot then a team that has only enough for one.
by chriswebb86 on Jul 7, 2009 7:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I
think Aykis is making a strong case to becoming an Author on this site.
Sugar ... water .... and, of course, purple.
by what_the_crap on Jul 7, 2009 7:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post Aykis
But way to be a downer. Just kidding.
As you say, it doesn’t appear likely that we’ll be able to “fix” our team next summer just because we’ll have a bunch of money, and there’s probably more potential to hurt our team long-term by playing loose with the money than to actually build a long-term contender. The good news is, we still have Petrie calling the shots and I feel pretty good that he won’t do anything too reckless. I suppose the worst-case scenario with him is that he’ll find 6 mediocre players to sign to 5 year MLE deals.
One thing to remember is that, assuming they continue on their current learning curves, our current young studs are eventually going to have to get paid. Possibly throw this year’s and next year’s picks into that mix as well. Meaning, if we play it cool and these young guys start to gel and develop together, we won’t ever need to make a “big splash” in free agency, just pay to keep our guys together and have enough money in a couple of years to sign one or two guys that could put us over the top (the Portland model?). I think I like that scenario a lot better than overpaying now for someone that we think we want long-term just because we have the money to do so.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 7, 2009 8:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Of those players, the ones I like are Thomas, Morrow, Johnson and Bargnani.
I presume you mean TYRUS Thomas, not K9. Of course. Goes without saying. Just thought I’d say it. You know, just in case.
by Rickyflip on Jul 7, 2009 8:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he meant Kenny
most people here are nostalgic for the Vlade, Peja, Webber era. Aykis is nostalgic for the post-Webber whining about Kenny Thomas contract era.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jul 7, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woof!
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like bargnani
Not ze rest
" Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. "
by Bushka on Jul 7, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion has been
to avoid the 2010 shopping spree like the plague. Teams are climbing over themselves to clear 2010 cap space. Well, unless Lebron signs to play for Cleveland and New York and Wade offers to play on a rotating schedule of teams, some franchises are going to have gift cards they can’t cash in. Now those teams clamor over leftovers. Now those leftovers may be pretty good, but they’ll be overpaid. The Kings should do what they can to shop NOW, through trades and free agency, and let the others battle next offseason. I agree that trades will be the best opportunity to better this team, so why wait? Get better players with longer deals, and take advantage of the obsession with 2010.
by PurplePurple on Jul 7, 2009 8:42 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The goal needs to be
to use the cap room we have to trade for the player we want. I doubt many players would really want to come to Sacramento on their own accord unless we overpay them, and by signing a higher-profile free agent that’s a very good possiblility.
"Greed is the inventor of injustice as well as the current enforcer." - Julian Casablancas
by submison on Jul 7, 2009 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Similiar option
I think the Kings should stay away from the FA’s of 2010 (with the only exception being Joe Johnson because I don’t think it will require a max contract to get him and I like his overall game).
I would much rather see the Kings follow the model that Portland has been using. Make quality draft picks and reasonable trades to keep your salary cap/luxury tax managable. Petrie has been doing pretty well in the draft the last couple of years with Hawes/Thompson/Evans talent wise. Keep the trend going.
As for trades, the Kings only have one thing to offer besides their young talent which would be stupid to give away now. That is the fact that they are under the salary cap and several teams are going to be looking for salary cap relief this year. Teams are going to be looking for us to take on “bad” contracts because we are one of the few teams that actually can.
Now, the question is do the Kings trade away this cap relief during the summer or wait until close to the trade deadline?
Personally, I believe that the Kings will get some really nice offers closer to the trade deadline than this summer. Why? Unless I am off point, NBA teams are not charged luxury tax for their rosters at the end of the season. So technically, the can have some one say like Carlos Boozer play for the Utah Jazz up to the trade deadline, move him to a team that is under the cap and not have to take back as much $$$$ in contracts back. In this scenario, we might be even to hold a gun to the Jazz’s head and get a Kenny Thomas for Carlos Boozer straight up deal. Since both are expiring contracts, it saves Utah nearly $4 million in salary ($8 million in luxury tax?) and gives us frees up an additional $4 million in 2010 for the Kings when Boozer walks away. And what talent have we lost here? NONE.
Maintaining that salary cap is going to be a real key for the Kings in the near future because we are going to have to be able to resign our own rookies in the next couple of years as well.
by Fredman on Jul 7, 2009 9:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Other teams salaries...
Still trying to figure out how Portland has a complete playoff roster and only be around the $25 million salary point. Talk about having options! (although they will be in a fight trying to resign Roy and Aldridge)
I bet a lot of teams will be trying to steal some of their cap space as well
by Fredman on Jul 7, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops!
left out Portland’s qualifying offers which moves them closer to the $40 mil range. My bad!
by Fredman on Jul 7, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's cause a lot of their team has been on rookie salary scales.
That’s one of the plusses to having a young team like the Blazer, Thunder and Kings.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't work that way
Since both are expiring contracts, it saves Utah nearly $4 million in salary ($8 million in luxury tax?) and gives us frees up an additional $4 million in 2010 for the Kings when Boozer walks away.
Kings would have the exact same cap space in 2010 if they did the K-9 for Boozer trade. I don’t like the Boozer trade now, but I can understand the reasoning….there’s really no reason at all to do it at the trade deadline.
by Charlieb on Jul 7, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh to be fair you can request a 1st round pick or some other incentive in a
sign and trade. Although it usually ends up being a 2nd rounder.
There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru
by moproblemz on Jul 7, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I believe Fredman's right.
We could do K-9 for Boozer straight up, since we’re under the cap we could take back more salary than we give.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea but it doesn't give us an additonal 4 mil next offseason
We have that additional 4 mil right now.
With the fourth pick of the draft the kings select...
by kangsfan on Jul 7, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep misunderstood.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That part is right
I was talking about the additional $4 million part for next season, like Kangsfan said.
by Charlieb on Jul 7, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What am I missing?
ok, if we don’t trade K9s contract (7.5 mil), then it expires and the kings are an additional 7.5 mil under the cap.
If they do a straight up trade for Boozer’s contract (12.3 mil) and it expires next season, then that would be 12.3 mil more under the cap.
Thus creating the additional $4 mil under the cap. I don’t see or understand what I am missign there.
by Fredman on Jul 8, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missing Link
What you’re missing is that the Kings already have that other $4M in cap space.
They would have to give up that current $4M in cap space to acquire Boozer, but they would get it back again when his contract expired.
It doesn’t actually add $4M in cap space, it just sort of shuffles it around.
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now if you traded Nocioni for Boozer
You get about 8 million more in cap space at the end of the season, since Boozer AND K-9’s contracts come off.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nix that. Its about 4 million more.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Technically
There would be about $6.85M more in cap space (i.e. Noc’s 2010-11 salary), no?
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Forgot his contract was front loaded
Gets smaller each year.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, but is Utah willing to take on more years
I seriously doubt it. Especially since they have quite a few FAs of their own next year. Okur and Korver. Plus, they have to figure out what to do with AK47’s deal as well.
Also, I think Utah would be interested in K9 possibly backing up Milsap since their roster depth at the 4/5 isn’t the greatest and they do have a logjam at the 3.
Gotta remember that we have to make the best offer than what everyone else is going to be throwing at Utah as well.
by Fredman on Jul 8, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Considering their Luxury Tax situation, and the fact that they have so many players expiring after this season, they may be more interested in front-loading their salary cap savings to avoid the Luxury Tax this year, since in future years their salary cap will not be nearly as tight.
There’s an argument to be made that they could prefer Noc to Thomas from a salary cap standpoint, and that doesn’t even begin to get into on-court contributions.
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlieb-
If the Kings were interested in signing Boozer to a long term contract (which I’m not saying they are) trading for him before the season ends would allow them to retain his “Larry Bird Rights” giving the Kings the ability to sign him to a year longer contract and a salary void of cap restrictions (max money regardless of cap standing).
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 7, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True - and I really hope that doesn't happen
Regardless, if they were interested in acquiring Boozer long-term, they would make the deal this off-season instead of waiting until the trade deadline. That’s the only point I was trying to make.
by Charlieb on Jul 7, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Unless I am off point, NBA teams are not charged luxury tax for their rosters at the end of the season.
While the Luxury Tax is assessed at the end of the season, it is calculated based on actual dollars spent by each team (not player salaries on the end of year roster – a method which would, for example, not include 10-day contracts).
To use your scenario as an example (using rounded numbers for clarity), Utah has Boozer at roughly $12M while Sacramento has K9 at just under $9M, for a difference of $3M (using actual dollars it’s closer to $3.5M, but I digress).
If the Jazz swap these players half-way through the season, Utah will have paid $6M to Boozer & $4.5M to K9, only saving $1.5M (incidentally, the Kings will have paid out exactly the same amount, but increasing their payroll by $1.5M).
Just thought I should clear that up.
by smgmatt on Jul 7, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the clarity
ok, but if Utah is over the salary cap then that 1.5 mil savings is actually doubled because they don’t have to pay for the luxury tax of it.
by Fredman on Jul 8, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
This is factually correct.
That said, if they trade Boozer before the season, you can double that amount again.
Scenario 1: Deadline Deal
$1.5M in salary saved + $1.5M in Luxury Tax saved = $3M
Scenario 2: Preseason Deal
$3.5M in salary saved + $3.5M in Luxury Tax saved = $7M
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've felt for a while now, that 2011....
….would be a better target for FA for us.
I’d like to move some long-term deals like Udrih and Nocioni and align our contracts with 2011 to expire then. By doing this, we could add a quality free agent like a Millsap/Bass/Lee type player NOW, and then play out the next couple drafts. See where we are, tweak the roster and potentially sign a big time free agent in 2011.
by Smills91 on Jul 7, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind
Singing Gay, or Roy. Though i think we have a better chance to get Gay than Roy. I think Evans, K$, Gay, JT, Hawes that’s a nice line up! But we’d have to over pay for Gay, which i’m not 100% sure if i’m ok with that but i’m loving the lineups
by shadowchicken on Jul 7, 2009 10:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey if you want to sing gay thats your choice.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Oh no he didn't.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 7, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my!
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jul 7, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outlaw
Not muchy discussion here of Travis Outlaw. Not a guy I’d want to throw the bank at, but I was intrigued when I saw his name.
Good post, Aykis.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Jul 7, 2009 10:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes Outlaw's a nice young player
But I’m not interested in him until I see how Donte and Omri do.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with that
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Jul 7, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recd
For a post that was thought provoking without making rash predictions. (You know, like Pooky is probably going to get that skin fungus under his arms again.)
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
by SavageBeast on Jul 7, 2009 10:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You mean he has some sort of Jason Smith growing under one arm?
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 7, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's already something growing on his skin
and its not under his arms
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jul 7, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When was the last time a big-name free agent left another team to sign for Sacramento??
It’s a downside of a small-time city.
by cbsf on Jul 7, 2009 11:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Bosh/James/Wade are pipe dreams.
The others only if the kings are willing to out-pay (ie overpay) the other teams.
by cbsf on Jul 7, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SAR.
If the team is winning and has potential, that will go a long way. I mean, CLE is able to attract free agent talent, and it’s because they’re a contender. It definitely is not because Cleveland is nice city or some shit. Ohio is a dumpster.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jul 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they already have the superstar
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Jul 7, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point.
If have a winning team (or superstar), you can more easily acquire free agent talent. The city in which you’re located becomes less relevant.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jul 7, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SAR
Guess it depends on your definition of big-name, but I guess he could qualify.
I was thinking Divac.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Jul 7, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the time, SAR was a minor coup.
"It would be my honor to be your new stepfather."
by PhutureKings on Jul 7, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
The way I remember it we had to wait for New Jersey to rescind their offer, based on their concern over his knees. One could argue that we landed SAR merely because he was potentially ‘damaged goods’ and the Nets had a better medical staff.
by cabz on Jul 7, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of the FAs or RFAs thrill me and until
we have a better idea of what the team is going to look like, what it’s identity is going to be there is no need to make commitments now. At this point I really can’t say. I’m guessing we are going to be an up tempo (7 fastest pace last season) and I think Spence is going to be passing the ball out of the high post and that team is going to be playing a Princeton (some) type of offense. Other than that I just don’t know. Undoubtedly we are also going to be drafting a relatively low draft pick who will contribute to the teams style of play. Until this picture comes into focus I can see no reason to make any major long term signings.
One thing to remember is that there are only 450 jobs as professional NBA… period. Not every one of these professionals is looking to live large in a major metro area. Many of them are married with families and are more interested in the quality of the schools then they are in the quality and quantities of clubs in the area. Of the major players who have played and lived in the area, many if not most expressed regret about leaving the area when they were traded. Some still maintain homes here.
The Kings offer 15 highly coveted jobs in their franchise. If we are improving (and winning) and as long as the Maloof’s checks don’t bounce there will be players who will want to play here. All small market teams have to pay some premium to bring big name players in, partially to offset the supposed lack of amenities and the chance to earn money off the court. Nevertheless, Phoenix (hot as blazes), Orlando (yeah it’s Florida but muggy, muggy muggy) New York and New Jersey (expensive and unlivable in the summer), Washington DC (see New York,
Oklahoma (have you been there? There’s nothing there.), Minnesota, (9 months of winter, 3 months of bad sledding), Cleveland (don’t know much about it, but I’ve never known anybody who went on a vacation there).
My point is this, at least half the cities that have a NBA franchise don’t offer any more geographically than Sac does and many of them aren’t 90 minutes from San Francisco either. The biggest super stars have the option of living anywhere and probably not going to come here. If we are perceived as a team with a future that offers NBA players minutes and a chance to grow professionally and most importantly a chance to play far into the post season we will not have problems attracting the type of players we need.
Stay the course, don’t rush into signing players who have already played their best ball, keep financial flexibility and eventually we will have our pick of players and we can build a team with a strong direction, purpose and a corporate culture that requires players of high character and high skill. If they can do it in San Antonio (of all places) we can do it here.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
by Bluejohn on Jul 7, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 10 recs
I'm not usually a big fan Bluejohn but this is pretty spot on.
I want to see action in FA and trades just like the rest of the peeps here at StR but I am also realistic about the chances of the Kings being good next season. Stay the course, draft well, make trades that clear out contracts of players who no longer fit the plan (Nocioni/Beno) and only take back players that do fit or contracts that go away sooner. Martin is the answer at the 2, Garcia is our six man- soif the JT is the answer at the 4, Hawes is the answer at the 5 and Evans is the answer at the point then the team is on the right path and free agents will come here. Cheap fixes like Fesenko or short term fixes like Boozer (if Noc or Beno go to Utah) make sense to me. I think the Kings should have a good feel for what their needs are by mid-season.
The Kings need to re-establish a base talent level to draw FA and I see major improvement coming via trades for players with long term contracts. If Boozer is a long term fix then sign him but I like the possibilities of dealing him and filling the real positions of need- fringe all-star small forward, front court depth (Boozer for Tyrus Thomas and Luol Deng is my dream deal- and I believe Chicago bites). A future team of Evans, Martin, Deng, JT, Hawes with a bench of Rodriguez, Garcia, Omri, Donté and Tyrus Thomas is young, athletic and talented team ready to make some noise.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 7, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago didn't even want to give up Deng for Kobe
Why would they even think about trading him to rent Boozer for one year?
by Charlieb on Jul 8, 2009 3:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From everything I read
Kobe didn’t want to go to Chicago if they were giving up Deng (along with the rest of the package).
He wanted to make sure that the team he would be going to would be competitive, which instantly limited the offer Chicago could make.
Chicago did offer Deng in their package for Kobe . . . again, from everything I’ve read.
Also, I believe the idea is that they would be getting Boozer to keep him, otherwise why trade Tyrus Thomas as well?
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that was a while ago.
Deng has since not lived up to his contract and with players like Bosh and D-Wade (a Chicago native) available and probably willing to sign with Chicago they are going to clear as much cap space as possible. Tyrus Thomas has been a throw in in all deals being mentioned now with Hinrich.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 8, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
JT “has been a throw-in in all deals being mentioned” involving the Kings . . . so don’t put too much stock in that.
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In San Antonio's case..
It doesn’t hurt to have the luck to get Tim Duncan or David Robinson. Good post.
Damn you Robert Horry!!!
by chupacabara on Jul 7, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gay could end up being a very good choice
he is only 22 now, 6’9" with a 7’3" wingspan, and a higher vert than Josh Smith. But either he gets his max deal done in Memphis, or he takes less money to be on a good team, I think. If the Kings really wanted Gay they would have to trade for him now, possibly in a 3 team deal involving Amare, and hope that the Kings get good enough to keep him around without overpaying. But we would have to give up Donte and Casspi probably. Because no way are Shock and Hawes going anywhere.
Overall, our stars are definitely going to have to be traded for now, and pray they stick around, or drafted. Or Kev can stop getting hurt and play some D. That is all we really need.
by Ice_9ine on Jul 7, 2009 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
a 3 team deal
Memphis gets Amare, Sergio, Donte
Phoenix gets Conley, Arthur, Richardson, Beno
Kings get GAy
by Ice_9ine on Jul 7, 2009 1:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lol
All the Gay jokes that would be available if Rudy was on our team. That’s a plus right there. We could ask Spencer how feels about Gay.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Do you approve of the Kings getting Gay, Mr. Hawes?"
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Only Getting Gay With Kids"
Doo-doo-doo, da-da-do-do-wow!
There’s a place that is magical and full of rain
But now it needs help because it is in pain
Protecting the earth is a mighty big chore
We’re spreading awareness like never before!
Getting Gay with Kids is here
To spread the word, and bring you cheer
Lets save the rainforest, whaddaya say?
Being an activist is totally gay!
Someday if we work hard boys and girls..
There’ll be nothing but rainforests covering the entire world..
Getting Gay with Kids is here
To spread the word, and bring you cheer
Getting Gay with Kids is here
Lets save the rainforest, it’s totally gay
It’s totally gay!
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 7, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that was Gay.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Save the cap space
We traded Salmons & Miller to get Nocioni and $6M in cap space. Now, we’re supposed to trade Noc & $6M to get Boozer for 5 months. So, we trade an expiring $12M contract Miller’s, Salmons, and $6M in cash to end up with Boozers expiring $12M contract. Wow, I want to due business with people that think like than. I’ll be retired in a yr.
Cap Space isn’t just for FA’s. Cap Space is money and money is power. You don’t use cap space to overpay for ageing stars. You use cap space to rid your team of bad contracts and to pick up valueable assets in trades. Think Gasol & Camby. Think young prospect and draft choices. Save for a rainy day, and when opportunities become available, you’ll be the one ready to take advantage.
Unless we’re getting a long term asset, the Maloof’s aren’t going to spend their money on a short term bandaid. Renting a Star for one season won’t help us get to our goal of a championship. Best case, adding a Star for one yr increases the win total & fan enjoyment, But, the following year when he leaves the team ends up back to where they were before he arrived. Unless you want to extend the rebuild additional years, forget about one year rentals.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 7, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you using that NEW Math?
We traded Salmons & Miller to get Nocioni and $6M in cap space. Now, we’re supposed to trade Noc & $6M to get Boozer for 5 months. So, we trade an expiring $12M contract Miller’s, Salmons, and $6M in cash to end up with Boozers expiring $12M contract.
Trades (real & proposed, using your $6M as a given – I didn’t double-check it)
Miller & Salmons for Nocioni & $6M (in 08-09 cap space).
Nocioni & $6M (in 09-10 cap space) for Boozer.
Net Result
Miller & Salmons for Boozer & 08-09 cap relief.
Here’s a question, would you have made this deal at the deadline last year? Follow-up question, how much different is 1.5 seasons of Boozer than 1 season of Boozer?
You use cap space to rid your team of bad contracts and to pick up valueable assets in trades. Think Gasol & Camby.
First of all, wouldn’t getting rid of Nocioni’s $21M be considered a bad contract when he’s not the answer at SF?
Secondly, while the Gasol deal was an absolute joke, LA did include two first round picks in the deal (don’t forget that the going rate for high-profile players is some combination of first round picks, prospects, and cap space).
Memphis took Crittenton & M. Gasol as the prospects, which is part of why it was a terrible deal (especially since Crittenton is already gone), and got all of Gasol’s money back in cap space. As for the draft picks…
LA’s picks weren’t worth anything because they were already a playoff contender and adding Gasol insured that they would be drafting in the bottom of the first round annually . . . but is there one player out there that could do the same for Sacramento’s picks going forward? The Kings are not one player away from picking at the bottom of the first round.
Since Sacramento’s first round picks carry a lot more value, it wouldn’t be nearly as lopsided of a deal as you insinuate (by using Gasol as an example).
In short, using the Gasol trade as an example is nothing more than a straw man argument and discredits your position overall, while using the Camby trade (which I didn’t elaborate on) as an example actually leans more towards a pro-Boozer argument, as he would be (almost) entirely a salary cap acquisition.
by smgmatt on Jul 7, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow that's a lot to answer & I'm still working on the new math part
OK, if we hadn’t traded Brad we’d have his expiring of $12.25M this year, and we’d still have Salmons. We would have Boozer’s $12.324M in expiring if we did the trade for Noc. But, to get Boozer we will have to spend $6M more than if we didn’t trade Noc. Whether we the $6M actually came from the Miller trade or from the other expiring we had last yr or from Salmon’s contract, is too difficult for me to figure out. But, I believe I’m correct in saying that if we didn’t trade Miller we’d still have $12M in expiring and Salmon’s contract to trade.
Now for the rest of you comments & questions: No, I would not have traded for 1.5yrs of Boozer. Assuming Boozer helped us win more games, we would not have gotten a top 5 draft pick. He wouldn’t have filled Arco, and it is debateable whether or not we would have sold enough seats to pay off the cost of his contract. As part or our rebuild, he would have taken time away from JT at the PF position. Forcing JT to get half of his minutes at the Center position and stunted his development.
We’re 3 or 4 yrs from having our young core develop into a playoff contender. Boozer turned 28 last Nov. and in 3 or 4 more yrs when we really need stars to win playoff games he’ll be 32 or 33. Rather than offer him a 4yr deal for $70M which I think would get him to sign here, I’d rather offer Millsap a 5 yr deal for $60M
Noc’s bad contract. Actually Noc is owed less than Cisco or Beno. As of now, he’s our starting SF and his contract reduces after this yr, so I really don’t think his is a bad contract. I’ve posted before that I believe he will be an easy trade along with Thomas at the trade deadline.
Whether LA gave up 2 draft picks or 22 doesn’t matter. If they didn’t have the cap space they couldn’t have made the deal. And, they gave up 2 because their’s were so late in the draft that they weren’t worth more than a 2nd rounder. I never insinuated any thing. I never said we could have or would have made that deal. I pointed out that if a team wanted to dump a star for whatever reason, and we had cap space we could take on the salary.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 7, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point by Point
First a warning: this comment makes my last one look like a yearbook quote.
OK, if we hadn’t traded Brad…
They did, this is not a point of contention. Moving on.
…to get Boozer we will have to spend $6M more than if we didn’t trade Noc.
Huh? Brad & Salmons became Noc & cap space. In this scenario Noc & cap space would become Boozer. I thought we were already in agreement on that part. I’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at with that entire first paragraph to be honest.
But, I believe I’m correct in saying that if we didn’t trade Miller we’d still have $12M in expiring and Salmon’s contract to trade.
Um, I agree? Again, not sure how this fits in. Here’s what I was responding to originally:
So, we trade an expiring $12M contract Miller’s, Salmons, and $6M in cash to end up with Boozers expiring $12M contract.
You double-counted the $6M here, because the Kings got $6M back in the Miller/Salmons deal. If they in turn sent that $6M back out, you cannot count that when summarizing the deals in the big picture. The Kings started with Miller/Salmons and would end up with Boozer. There is some temporary cap space in the middle of the overall summary, but nothing “out of pocket” as it were.
Assuming Boozer helped us win more games, we would not have gotten a top 5 draft pick.
I’m glad to know that you wouldn’t have traded for Boozer, because at least you’re consistent with your premise. That said, let’s look at the Draft Lottery for a second. The top 3 picks in the draft were the teams that finished 3rd, 6th, & 4th, respectively.
If the Kings would have won more games last year (don’t forget that Memphis won seven more games than Sacramento), they would have actually been more likely to land in the Top 3 this year. This is exactly why making decisions based on draft position instead of talent is such a horrible idea.
As I’ve stated before, benching older players that are not a part of your future to give your youth more minutes (when you are already eliminated from the playoffs) is NOT the same thing as tanking. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.
Not trading K9 for Boozer because Boozer will contribute more wins and hurt a draft pick is much more akin to tanking . . . even at the expense of the youth mentioned above. I guess this is where I see the line drawn in regards to assigning minutes (at some point they need to be earned), while others may disagree. I can live with that.
Rather than offer him a 4yr deal for $70M which I think would get him to sign here, I’d rather offer Millsap a 5 yr deal for $60M
If this was the choice the Kings faced, I would totally agree with you. However, Utah apparently wants Millsap more than Boozer, which is why Boozer would be on the Clearance Rack in the first place. In fact, I’m not even sure I’d want the Kings to re-sign Boozer next year if they did trade for him this year.
I just can’t for the life of me understand why nobody some people don’t want a free All-Star on a rebuilding team. Take a chance that he’ll rub off on your young guys. Take a chance that you can flip him for something that will be a better long-term fit. At some point you need to take a chance! This one is all reward and almost no risk!
Whether LA gave up 2 draft picks or 22 doesn’t matter. If they didn’t have the cap space they couldn’t have made the deal.
It does matter (NJ demanded two 1sts for Kidd and they were getting Harris!), and they didn’t have any cap space . . . just a large expiring contract (they were & are over the salary cap).
As for your insinuations:
Cap Space isn’t just for FA’s. Cap Space is money and money is power. You don’t use cap space to overpay for ageing stars. You use cap space to rid your team of bad contracts and to pick up valueable assets in trades. Think Gasol & Camby. Think young prospect and draft choices. Save for a rainy day, and when opportunities become available, you’ll be the one ready to take advantage.
I hope I put enough context there so as not to misrepresent your comment.
Using cap space to rid your team of bad contracts and pick up valuable assets in trades:
Unless you’re talking about bringing in a larger salary with less years for a lower salary with more years then I don’t understand the bad contract portion, because usually cap space is better suited to take on bad contracts for the cost of something valuable (e.g. Kurt Thomas + two 1st Rounders).
Incidentally, Noc for Boozer does almost exactly what you describe.
Gasol/Camby, young prospects, and draft choices:
The Gasol trade involved no cap space on LA’s end, Camby was a straight salary dump, and I do not see how cap space helps acquire young prospects or draft choices outside of taking on bad contracts such as in the Kurt Thomas trade.
On these notes, I would be for a Camby type of acquisition, and would be thrilled if the Kings pulled off a Kurt Thomas-esk deal with a team who had a short window (e.g. San Antonio/Boston). I’d also be on board with taking on an All-Star (e.g. Gasol/Boozer) for an Expiring Contract & scraps.
If you’re going to say no to K9/Noc for Boozer, then don’t say “Think Gasol” . . . because like it or not, this type of Boozer deal would be Sacramento’s version of the Gasol trade.
Save for a rainy day, and when opportunities become available, you’ll be the one ready to take advantage.
Getting Boozer for the K9/Noc pupu platter is a rare opportunity. If he was locked up at a reasonable salary, if Utah didn’t have Millsap in the wings, or if he would have opted out, he wouldn’t be available for that kind of price even in theory.
Those things didn’t happen, however, and he is realistically available at pennies on the dollar. If only the Kings had the cap space to take advantage since all of those pieces fell into place.
Oh. That’s right. They do.
by smgmatt on Jul 7, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jesus to you get paid by the word?
Your for the Boozer trade and I’m not. I don’t believe he’s worth spending $5M for one yr and maybe less if we trade him at the deadline. No more example which you can fixate on and on and on.
That’s my opinion. And, I see your point. And, I believe that the Maloofs and the FO won’t spend the money.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 8, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is insane
If the Kings would have won more games last year (don’t forget that Memphis won seven more games than Sacramento), they would have actually been more likely to land in the Top 3 this year.
Take a statistics class. Winning more games does not increase the likelihood of a team’s pick winning the lottery. Ever. I stopped reading your marathon post after that part.
by Charlieb on Jul 8, 2009 4:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Statistics are great for determining future odds
History is a little more accurate when it comes to past events, however.
The lottery balls have spoken, and the worst record didn’t come up once in three tries.
Pop Quiz Hot Shot: In the last 10 years, how many times has the team with the worst record won the lottery?
Two.
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Law of averages
If we do it infinite amount of times the worst team will win 25% of the time. But its only been done 10 times. Thats almost nothing in statistics.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I agree on all counts, and I would point to the comment below that points out that the same odds (which were surprisingly accurate even with the small sample size – 20% in 10 years) state that there is a 75% chance of not getting the overall pick.
Going back to the original argument, using those odds is a terrible reason to not acquire a player like Boozer.
by smgmatt on Jul 8, 2009 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
This is what I don’t understand about the crowd here that’s more interested in acquiring ping pong balls than assets. The lottery is a crapshoot – over large periods of time you should see things fall in line with the odds (presuming nothing changes in the manner in which the lottery picks are drawn). But in any particular year, there’s a very good chance you can get hosed on the deal.
So control what you can control – that’s through acquiring talent, drafting wisely, and trying to win as many games as possible each season while still developing your young talent (yes, it is possible to do both).
I don’t see how bringing a guy like Boozer in negatively affects the goals of this franchise at this point in time.
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Landing the 1st pick isn't the only possible positive outcome from the lottery
This year, the Kings lost the lottery, but still ended up with a very valuable 4th pick. That’s the worst case scenario, and they still landed a quality player that many here believe could become a star. Even if you assume that they will lose the lottery no matter what (an unrealistically pessimistic viewpoint), the worst record gets a much better player in the draft.
If the Kings had rented Boozer last year to win a few more games, let’s assume they would have ended up with the 12th pick (and about a 1% chance to win the lottery). The 12th pick in this year’s draft was Tyler Hansbrough….bit of a drop off from Evans if you ask me. Would you trade Evans for Tyler Hansbrough and the warm fuzzy feeling that comes with having won a dozen more games last year if nothing else changes?
by Charlieb on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Kings had won five more games last year
They would have had no worse than the 6th pick in the draft, and still a damn good shot at a top-3 pick.
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
We could play this game for the next ten years if you like. When is it time to start expecting the team to actually start winning games? What if you lose a ton of games again and get the 3rd pick in next year’s draft and there’s only two elite level players? Do we again decide that we need to go lottery one more season?
Adding Boozer would give us another asset that we should be able to parlay into a decent NBA player. So you have to add that into your scenario – you are moving down in the draft, but adding a player of decent caliber at the same time.
This roster is going to be pretty damn young next season. And this team needs to start winning games if it’s going to have a prayer of staying in Sacramento.
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I'm singular minded
I’m sick of mediocrity. At this point the only thing I consider is whether any particular move gets the Kings closer to competing for a championship, and I don’t think renting Boozer does that.
When you look at some of the other promising young teams in the league (Portland, OKC, Memphis), they have more young talent than the Kings at this point, but I think the Kings will be on the same level if they add another high draft pick next year. So I guess I just want them to wait it out one more year (while collecting another top 6 pick) before making a move.
by Charlieb on Jul 8, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie we haven't even reached mediocrity yet.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know - I just meant a player like Boozer would cement them in mediocrity
I’d take 10 years of cellar-dwelling and one championship over 10 years of mediocrity. Was just explaining my thought process.
by Charlieb on Jul 8, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't understand
How he will “cement them in mediocrity”. Because he may move us down a few spots in the draft lottery? You don’t think Boozer’s expiring contract is much more valuable than K9’s expiring contract?
This may be a job for Captain Hyperbole.
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean signing Boozer long-term
He’s good, but not great, and they would have to overpay for him to keep him around.
I’ve said before that I could live with the deal if they traded him at the trade deadline. I’m just not convinced he would be worth that much more than K-9, so I see that potential positive as being outweighed by moving down a few spots in the draft.
No hyperbole here – this isn’t a blockbuster deal. I just think the minor negatives outweigh the minor positives.
by Charlieb on Jul 8, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is suggesting
signing Boozer long term unless it is for a cheap price, and that’s not happening. It’s all about the asset named CBEC instead of KTEC.
Do you think trading Boozer at the deadline could net us draft picks next year? I think so. Would K-9 get us draft picks? Maybe so, but as an ASSET, Boozer is better. He’d be in more demand because of 2 things. He’s a damn good player and has a 12 mil expiring contract.
Of course, there’ much more to it but I’m just concentrating on that part of the discussion
by eduardo_m7 on Jul 8, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, gotcha
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that ending up with a worse draft pick
is a lame reason for not trading for a star. I’m embarrassed that I used it in one of my posts. Chalk it up to late hours and frustration. But, in the same vein, implying that the win/loss record will determine whether the Kings stay in Sac. is also lame.
The economy and whether or not we can find a developer for the Cal Expo deal will be the major factor in whether the Kings stay or go. Certainly, the handful of games Boozer would add to the overall win/loss record would be meaningless.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 8, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ping Pong balls lock a player up for up to 4yrs.
I haven’t read his anywhere so let me ask. Boozer exercised his option, so does Utah retain his Bird rights? And, if they do, would they pass on to the Kings if we make the trade?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 8, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been such a long thread I forgot
is Fesenko or Koufos part of this trade?
We could use a backup Center so I might have to change my opinion if one of them were included.
Pickup a young prospect center, move Noc and free up the logjam at the 3, and upgrade the PF position. Plus, one of my objections was the additional $4.8M we’d pay for one yr rental on Boozer. But, we’re going to spend some of that money anyways to fill his roster spot, and if he retain his Bird rights at least he have a chance of resigning him.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 8, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Koufos would not be involved
That’s the Jazz’s future at center. Fesenko might be.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Koufos isn't going anywhere
Gotta remember that Okur is a FA next summer as well. So Utah has to also figure out what to do with him so they are keeping Koufos as the backup plan in case Okur walks
by Fredman on Jul 9, 2009 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well maybe we should trade for Okur.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 9, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
two ways of looking at it
you can look at it that the worse team has the best chance of winning the lottery. I think its like 25% chance.
Or you can look at like I do, the worse team has a 3 out of 4 chance of NOT winning the lottery
So why not just win some freaking games!
by Fredman on Jul 8, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh by the way
I think you will get better odds playing routlette at the Palms!
by Fredman on Jul 8, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inaccuracies all over this POS article
“we see the Kings have about $43.5 Million available.” Erroneous! We don’t have about 43.5 mil available, that’s our cap figure ass clown.
I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.
by dspohn55 on Jul 7, 2009 3:17 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Morning Sunshine!
Thanks for that catch, It was 3 in the morning when I wrote this. Its now fixed.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty disrespectful dspohn55.
I hope this is sarcasm. If not, learn how to block quote and I would also like to point out that unless you are a Sacramento King then:
We don’t have about 43.5 mil available, that’s our cap figure ass clown.
Should read: The Sacramento Kings (or Kings for short) don’t have about 43.5 mil available, that’s their cap figure ass clown.
or
Aykis16- Not to be a bitch but you have a typo that confuses the argument put forth.
"we see the Kings have about $43.5 Million available."
Should read- we see the Kings about $43.5 Million tied up in salaries. Please fix typo so to not confuse the rest of the people who read your lengthy and well thought out post.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 7, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, dspohn55,
don’t even bother mentioning it because most of us passed the 4th grade so we saw the typo, understood it as such, and moved on because it’s really not that confusing. Ass clown.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 8, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another inaccuracy
“Perhaps we could take advantage of a luxury tax team, such as Utah, and dump one or both of these contracts onto them so they can re-sign Millsap”
so let me get this straight, we dump our 2 bad contracts on Utah so they can re-sign Millsap. How in the phuck does us adding to their salary help their ability to re-sign Millsap?
I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.
by dspohn55 on Jul 7, 2009 3:21 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Andres Nocioni for Carlos Boozer
Long term, thats more money for Utah. But its about $4.5 million less this year. $4.5 Million more that they can use on keeping Paul Millsap. Also I never said that Utah would go for it. I’m sure there are other teams out there that could offer more. But we can give Utah a lot less salary than we take back. And that could be very valuable to them.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also its fuck not phuck.
If you’re going to insult me, do it right. Thanks.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's probably really street
Why use the letter “f” when you can bust out the “ph”? All the cool message board kids are doing it…you phollow?
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 7, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phnatt ya.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I do it right?
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was phabulous
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 7, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he’s feeling phat

…and sassy
I wonder sometimes how Ricky Berry would've turned out
by luckthefakers on Jul 8, 2009 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or if he was really cool
he’d hit us with “f@ck”. That way he can let us know that he’s angry enough to drop an F-bomb, but his inherent politeness prevents him from actually typing it out. You gotta appreciate that kind of considerateness.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 8, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay so
i know that lebron to the kings seems highly improbable, but it could be done in the right circumstances.
1) the kings would need to trade kmart noci and beno to the rockets for tmac and possibly aaron brooks, this would clear up somewhere in the area of 28 million dollars (i think; remember k9 has an expiring contract as well)
2)lebrons friendship with the maloofs would need to help out alot in this
3)rumors of the kings moving to vegas would need to surface to the point where it was almost a future fact (though we all know they wouldnt trapping lebron in cowtown muahahaha lol) this would make lebron the “king” of vegas, which would play on his pride and desire to be the greatest/most well known
and then to complete this hypothecal fantasy you have to imagine the sacbee headline “king of kings” by ailene voisine however you spell that.
by madmavmathews on Jul 7, 2009 5:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lol keep dreaming your sweet dreams.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People can get pretty wasted in Vegas.
Have the Maloofs give Lebron a “good time,” and hope he doesn’t get mad when he wakes up with the ring contract.
by DesertFox on Jul 7, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN reports Breaking News: The King to the Kings?!?!?
“And not just that, but he reportedly signed his deal for $5 million dollars… over 7 years. James claims not to remember signing but his signature is on the contract and eyewitnesses were there”
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 7, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best movie ever.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post
I bide my time and wait to strike a trade for the right guy, a 3 or a 4 would be my target.
(We’re so full of 3s right now that something would have to be done on that front in the deal)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jul 7, 2009 9:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would prefer flipping Noc for something
He’s not going to be part of the future, and his contract is for a terribly long time.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also this opens up the door for Greene and Casspi.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Update
Bargnani has extended with Toronto so that free agents a no-go.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Godd, that guy sucks.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 8, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good- not godd.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
by jjham15 on Jul 8, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played pretty good the second half of the season, and is still young.
Compared to Rashard Lewis, I think it’s pretty fair.
by DesertFox on Jul 8, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Bargnani was probably not worth the #1 pick in that draft, but I think he still deserved a top 5 selection (closer to 5 than 1) after all is said and done.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jul 8, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely
Below Roy, Gay and Aldridge.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Jul 8, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noc
Why does everyone want to move Nocioni? He plays the game the right way, has 3 point range, and competes his ass off every night. His contract isn’t even that bad.
I Came, I Saw, I Conquered.
by dspohn55 on Jul 8, 2009 10:34 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
His contract will get better over time as well
I think it’s mostly the length of contract for a guy that’s probably not a piece of the finished puzzle. Nocioni will be 30 shortly after the season starts.
Plus, he bitched in the press about the franchise after only being here a short amount of time. Not that he wasn’t correct, but it didn’t exactly endear him in many eyes here. It would hold some more weight coming from a guy who had been here a while, or was a high level player – and Nocioni is a journeyman player at best right now.
StR noobs: More oxygen, less THC please.
by otis29 on Jul 8, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about these two trades
(1) trade Noc for Boozer. This way Utah gets the cap relief they need to sign millsap and save on luxury tax.
(2) Then turn around and trade Boozer and Beno to OKC for a first round pick and Watson’s expiring contract.
That way we basically turned tow long term deals we don’t want for an expiring contract and a first round draft pick. The only potential obsticle I see is OKC being worried that Boozer won’t want to stay in OKC after the season. But OKC is desperate for a quality big man and if Boozer would be willing to sign an extension to stay there I think that trade might be a possibility. Thoughts?
by BruinGrad916 on Jul 8, 2009 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If OKC wants Boozer why don't they just deal with Utah?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Jul 8, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think u can get more for boozer...
With Boozer in the fold, I could see OKC being a low seed playoff team which would mean that first round draft pick in 2010 would be in the 15-18 pick range. Seems like we are giving away an All-Star player (yea, maybe not with all the superstar PFs in the West but the talent is there) for a mediocre draft pick.
Now, If the Kings could get Boozer this summer, I wonder what the odds would be in packaging him (and his expiring contract) to Phoenix for Amare since Phoenix has been on the wholesale plan lately.
by Fredman on Jul 9, 2009 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A different two trades
1st trade: Nocioni for Boozer. There are several reasons that Utah would do this trade. One of them obviously is to alleviate their cap room. Also, they wouldn’t have to resign Korver after this year because Noce brings the same necessity Korver does, 3pt shooting. Excluding the his 1st year in the league, Noce’s career 3pt attempts and % are on par with Korver’s, and besides he is a better rebounder and better defender. I would rather take Noce’s contract instead of handing Korver a new one.
Also, with Noce starting at the 3, Utah would have the convenience of starting Brewer at the 2 and he is a beast at shooting guard. The Jazz’s last year starting shooting guard, CJ Miles, is an adequate backup.
2st trade: K9/Donte Greene for Gerald Wallace. Wallace misses an average of 16 games a season, which means the Bobcats give him almost 2 millions every year for nothing. Maybe they are sick and tired of that and perhaps they want to take another risk at another young, full of potential, and much cheaper small forward in Donte. This trade also gives them cap flexibility for a star next summer, maybe Joe Johnson.
A line up of Tyreke Evans, Kevin Martin, Gerald Wallace, Carlos Boozer, and Spencer Hawes is very formidable.
by Maxim on Jul 8, 2009 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So
the Bobcats give him almost 2 millions every year for nothing
You want the Kings to give him those 2 million?
by eduardo_m7 on Jul 8, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
because
he is a good defender and one of the best rebounders at his position, two characteristics the Kings need. We have to pay something to get what we need. However, I wouldn’t trade for him without the Boozer trade. The point is to get us back into relevancy and speed up the winning mode. Even when we couldn’t resign Boozer next year, the lineup of Evans, Martin, Wallace, Thompson and Hawes would assuredly make some splash. And at that point, we would still have enough cap space and an attractive lineup to entice a big name free agent. Also at that point, we would be wondering if replacing Donte Greene and Nocioni’s contract with Gerald Wallace is such a smart thing. I don’t know. I’m just throwing ideas out there.
by Maxim on Jul 8, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
Everyone is throwing ideas around and that’s alright. I was just surprised that you would trade for someone that you said “gets pay 2 millions every year for nothing (injuries, I’m guessing)”I don’t see G-Dub helping but that’s another story for another day.
by eduardo_m7 on Jul 8, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
injuries. He misses 16 games/season which is one fifth of a season, which means one fifth of his salary (around 2 mil) is symbolically wasted.
by Maxim on Jul 8, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Kings should absolutely be hoping to cash in on 2010, but the key will be to get a guy that feels scorned by the rest of the league and whose value has dropped because he is just outside of the top of the market.
Remember what turned this franchise around last time was dealing for a disgruntled star that two franchises had given up on and signing Vlade somewhat under the radar. They need to try to duplicate a move like that again. They won’t get the premium FA types, but it would be great if they got a quality guy or two and were somehow able to take that big gamble.
And nobody is going to be looking to trade expiring contracts now either, so just stop the Boozer talk. The Jazz will be better off keeping him unless they get a huge offer so that it clears room for them come next season. Noc won’t get it done. Nobody is looking to take on contracts at this point, but shed them.
There will be so many guys looking to cash in next year in that FA class that the best hope for the Kings is to latch on to one of them and really convince him that he should come to Sacramento. They aren’t going to get any stars, but maybe a guy like Mehmet Okur or Tyson Chandler would be a good under the radar fit. Unfortunately, I don’t see too many PG’s and that may still be a position of need if Tyreke shows to be more of a two than a one.
kingskingdom.com and moneyballblog.com
Lead fanball correspondent for the Kings and the A's
by The Czar on Jul 8, 2009 10:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and no way it is Boozer
That guy loves the media and the attention if he can’t get the money.
The Kings won’t want to pay him what he will want and he would likely sign the MLE with a contender to get his mug in the spotlight more than playing in Sacramento like Rasheed did. Yeah, he played in Utah, but they paid him a lot of money and the only reason he didn’t opt out this time was because the economy was so bad. I just don’t see him coming to Sacramento under any circumstances or signing a deal with them unless they overpaid him.
kingskingdom.com and moneyballblog.com
Lead fanball correspondent for the Kings and the A's
by The Czar on Jul 8, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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