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Reason for Summer Optimism, or the Lack Thereof

Note: I was working on a reaction to a recent John Hollinger article, when I noticed that longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller beat me to the punch.  Here's my take, but be sure to check out the longtimelistener's post (and subsequent discussion thread) as well.  -Exhibit G

On Monday I posted a quote from Chad Ford that essentially said that the Kings probably won't be spending money next offseason, even though the team will have cap space.  Given the economic conditions that the Maloofs are dealing with, it is a frustrating idea, but not altogether unbelieveable.

Yesterday John Hollinger made a similar statement (Insider) when ranking the Western Conference teams, saying:

Shell-shocked by increasingly horrific economics in Sacto and the woefully outdated Arco Arena, the Kings locked down financially while they wait to find out where their next home will be. If it's a new building in Sacramento, great, but if not, San Jose, Anaheim, Kansas City and others await with open arms. Either way, they won't spend a nickel without some certainty on this front.

Aside from mentioning the possibility of the Kings relocating (already a sure-fire way to earn the ire of Sacramento fans), Hollinger then adds his sunny disposition to his predictions for the Kings next season, saying:

The Kings did pick up a potential star in the draft in Tyreke Evans and a low-budget breakout possibility in Sergio Rodriguez, plus Kevin Martin should be healthier. That should keep them run-of-the-mill bad rather than historically awful, but optimists won't find a lot of ammunition here.

Hollinger seems to correllate the Kings financial situation with their possibilities for improved play.  But why?

Star-divide

I suppose that this whole debate would actually center on what Hollinger would consider an optimistic expectation for this season.  Our discussions have generally agreed that a 35-win season would probably be overly optimistic.  If that's what Hollinger is alluding to, then I have no problem with that.  This is a rebuilding team, and the turnaround will not be overnight.

However, if Hollinger is saying that the lack of an immediate turnaround is tied to a lack of spending, that is what I would have an issue with.  I'm willing to give Hollinger some benefit of the doubt, mostly because a correlation like that (or lack thereof) seems like it would be right in Hollinger's wheelhouse.  But I'd still like to explore the issue, because that seems to be a sentiment I've read a lot of lately around here.  I've read some reactions along the lines of "If only the Maloofs would spend some money," or "If the Maloofs have cap space, they better spend some money."  Contrary to how it may seem, though, you do not need to spend money on a big free agent to improve a team.

I spent some time re-reading jasonrp's post regarding bouncing back from losing seasons.  There are certainly examples of teams spending and bringing in free agents to help a turnaround, but there are also teams that spent very little.  The best example I could see was the Miami Heat.

Miami had the worst record in the league, largely due to injuries (specific, Dwyane Wade).  The team drafted Michael Beasley and Mario Chalmers, and signed Jamaal Magloire for the veteran's minimum.  Wade was healthy again, and the team made the playoffs.

Before you attack the comparison, I am not trying to say that the Kings will make the playoffs next season, nor am I attempting to compare Kevin Martin to Wade.  The Kings in the West obviously have a different challenge ahead of them than Miami had.  Hawes is younger and less accomplished than Magloire (c'mon guys, he was an All-Star!).  Jason Thompson doesn't have the same feel for an NBA game as Udonis Haslem, at least not yet.  And Martin shouldn't be compared to Wade, not just because they have completely different games, but because Wade should only be compared to other players who are easily recognizeable by one name, such as LeBron, Kobe, or Kleine.

But the Kings have a roster of young, developing talent and a borderline All-Star (hopefully) returning to his pre-injury form.  Evans has a lot of potential.  We've got a new coach with an NBA pedigree.  I won't disagree with Hollinger that the Kings will probably be bad, but I will disagree that there is a lack of ammunition for optimists.  We will be lacking in the level of optimism that some teams may enjoy.  None of us are walking around saying, "This is it, this is the year we win the whole thing."    But when you're recovering from a 17-win season, the prospect of 25ish wins is plenty of ammo for long-term optimists.

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This is just more proof of how we need to be patient

Because quite frankly there’s no way this team wins 17 games or less again. Our star is healthy again. The Shock and Hawes frontcourt can only get better. We drafted some toughness and at least one likely star. And, we have an actual coach, with actual NBA experience, who has actually been a winner. This is the time for us to go the OKC route and just put together a group of excellent youngsters and let them develop. OKC fans are rabid and their team lost almost as many games as we did. The only difference between us and them is a few years. They’re at that point where their in good standing economically because they’re so far under the cap. And they are made up of almost exclusively younger guys. We’ll be there in a couple years. So I’ll continue to be optimistic but patient

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 12, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The OKC route

One thing the Thunder have done with their cap space is rent it out to teams who are desperate to cut costs. Unfortunately, it seems the Kings are also desperate to cut costs. Otherwise, they could stockpile additional assets like renting the cap space for expiring vets in return for draft picks. In one case, the Thunder got picks for taking on Kurt Thomas, then more for trading him away. If the Kings aren’t planning on signing anyone long term (which I agree is the best plan) I would like to see them jump on an opportunity to rent the space if it presents itself.

by LPKingsFan on Aug 12, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why I really wish the Maloofs had just let Petrie blow it up way earlier

because OKC’s rented out their cap space but has still stayed way under the cap. Meanwhile we’ve got a few crappy contracts on our hands, namely Beno and Nocioni. If those were gone we’d be in a much better position

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 12, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way WAY earlier

Like, years.

The Peja-Bibby-Miller core was doomed to failure, as was the Artest experiment. Most of us did not want to see that then, but it’s obvious now. The organization was dragged kicking and screaming into a rebuild, and precious years were lost because of it.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 12, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hornets need to cut under $4 million to avoid luxury tax.

NOH: Daniels (expiring) + Petersen (2yrs)
SAC: Nocioni (4yrs)

Kings take on an extra $5M of salary but save in the long term.

by wayno on Aug 13, 2009 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're forgetting the most important element of the OKC route...

Why the fans are rabid, why they are in good financial standing, and why they have a newly renovated Arena.

It isn’t because of the coach, the youngsters, their draft choices, or the salary cap.

It’s because they have already followed the formula laid out by Hollinger in Exhibit G’s post.

by unfair weather on Aug 13, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kleine. Hehehe.

October 28th couldn't come soon enough.

by JETisKing on Aug 12, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

San Jose and Anaheim

Can the Kings really waltz into either of those markets? I thought that there was a 75 mile rule in the NBA. My bet is that the Maloof brothers would have to pay the Warriors at least a couple of hundred million to get them to agree to San Jose – double that for the L*kers and Clippers, who play only 35 miles from the stadium in Anaheim.

I’m not saying that the Kings exodus from Sacramento is not real – it is a grave concern. I’m just not convinced that San Jose or Anaheim are realistic destinations. That would leave Kansas City, at least for the time being.

Does anyone have anything tangible about relocation fees and market share fees? Inquiring minds would like to know.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 12, 2009 4:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It kind of seems that

if the Maloofs are hurting so badly it might cost too much to relocate. Their best bet might just be to rebuild here with young talent (which is cheap) and bring the team to respectability. That’ll get the fans to come out and support the team. Then it’ll be the right time to start asking Sacramentans for a new arena

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 12, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's all assuming you don't believe the (supposed) veiled threat delivered by John Moag (which I'll admit sounds a bit far fetched)....

As 214 says, there is no way that a team in California will allow the Kings to move into their market without the “Family” paying a heavy price.

Gavin went on the air in the Summer League and said he (and the NBA) loves Vegas, but there is no new arena. Unlike Sacramento, there isn’t even A DISCUSSION going on to build a new arena there.

It’s amazing because Seattle actually had a better arena than the Kings do, and they lost a team. The NBA will look worse for letting that happen (and not figuring out a way to move the Hornets out of New Orleans when the opportunity arose).

That all being said, I agree with G’s post.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vegas

Dead issue, not a chance.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Aug 12, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Out of curiosity

How much did the Cincy waterfront destroying stadiums cost Cincy?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pook

I was back there in May and it was very vibrant downdown, but it’s been that way since I was a kid. I’d have to say it’s as good as it’s ever been, both sides of the river, even factoring in the economy.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Aug 12, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice

Glad to hear it. (And the waterfront comment was from my mother who lived there for a few years a little while back.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree with Andy

no way they allow a team in Vegas – and the attendance would stink there anyway.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 12, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Louisville....

….is building a brand new arena downtown right now for the UofL Cardinals basketball team. There’s no major league pro sports team in the entire state of Kentucky and the nearest basketball team is the Pacers at 2 hours away and after that it’s the Hawks (6 hours), Bulls (6 hours) or Grizzlies (6 hours).

St. Louis and/or Kansas City also have legitimate shots IMO.

All in all, though, I still see the Kings remaining in Sacramento as an arena gets built at Cal Expo(maybe not as grandeur as the Maloofs are expecting though).

by Smills91 on Aug 13, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is my optimistic best

With the current roster; Martin stays healthy, Evans proves an adequate point an gets 6 assists a game (plus 15 points). Either Udrih Benos up or Rodriguez proves to be a spark at point. Thompson and Hawes stay healthy and average 28 and 18 between them. Casspi or Greene combine with Noc or Garcia to get effort and points off the bench. Evans sparks an interest in D and the rest of the team joins in. Brockman fouls out of everygame with 6 to 8 rebounds. Then at the trade deadline K9 plus something is turned into a top 25 player that some team won’t be able to afford next year, The end result a team with a future and 34 wins. That’s me optimistic!

by ElRonToro on Aug 12, 2009 4:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was with you up until "... 34 wins."

I can see everything before that happening, though I doubt the top 25 player scenario. But even if all that happens, you can put me down for a 5-10 win improvement this season.

22-27 wins, that’s my prediction, and I’m much happier with this team and it’s direction than I have been in 4+ years.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 12, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no realism in my optimism

Puny Human! You won’t like me when I’m optimistic.

by ElRonToro on Aug 12, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who says we like you now?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ow!

I’ll be in my cave.

by ElRonToro on Aug 12, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

34 is a possibility if all goes really well

but its the high high high end.

But I’m guessing if all goes very veeery well,
hmmmm
maybe 29 – 30.
I’ll hold final guesses until we see pre-season though.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 12, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still can't believe

no one congratulated me on admitting 6 assists was adequate. This is going to cost me a bundle in therapy.

by ElRonToro on Aug 12, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I noticed you ungrateful bastard

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my mom's pet name for me

when I was in Kindergarten. Sniff.

by ElRonToro on Aug 12, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was right

Nobody DOES like you. :P

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lady told me once

I was not the most disgusting obnoxious man who ever asked her out. At the time I took that as a compliment , now I suspect that you and her must have met.

by ElRonToro on Aug 12, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Sorry to hear that Elron.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just noticed ElRon.

Now that you have deemed that 6 assists doth an adequate point guard make, how many turnovers would you consider for the same?

I think that assist to turnover ratio will be the key for Evans. As exemplified in summer league, the guy can make good passes, no doubt; but can he not make bad ones? That decision-making skill is something that I hope he further develops; altho it is less likely to develop than his shot.

My guess for him over his rookie season would be 5.5:3.5, given that he gets more than 30 minutes per. That’s a lot of assists and turnovers. And I think it’s pretty likely; it seems like he’ll have the ball in his hands quite a bit.

Maybe year #2 will have him get to 6:3, making him an efficient distributor, a good passing point guard, who can obviously do other things.

by DustyG on Aug 16, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

I can’t see us pulling a Gasol for Kenny Thomas deal.

I think K9 could fetch us a decent player or Petrie may just let the contract expire. If Raef LaFrentz’ insured deal didn’t turn into a top player, how can we expect K9 to.

by R-Man on Aug 12, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also agree about the direction...

Young, hustling, energetic players. Healthy cap situation.

We are now in position to make a big move if the situation presents itself.

by R-Man on Aug 12, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Part of that was what Portland was trying to get

They were trying to screw a team for giving up their cap space. No team will do that.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should be improvement with a healthy Martin and the addition of Evans.

But, that doesn’t mean that the Kings couldn’t have spent money to fill out the roster. I’m not suggesting some big money free agent, but a backup at Center would be nice. Davis just signed for 2yrs at $3M per. Rasho Nesterovic signed a 1 yr deal for $1.9M. Right now I’d even do the Boozer & Fresenko for Thomas & Cap Space deal.

What good is having a great starting lineup if the reserves are going to lose the game for you.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Aug 12, 2009 5:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh I'd do that deal in seconds

puts fans in the seats – even with just a Boozer rental. Gets some on-court teaching in there for JT etc..(he only plays 20 minutes for a season – so what? They’d be minutes with a chance to WIN some games)

I think it would pay for itself.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 12, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree they could have

And maybe they still will. I wouldn’t mind a cheap pickup for a guy like Adonal Foyle. But the other side of that argument is how much are a few extra (possible) wins worth? Does it matter much if the Kings win 29 games as opposed to 27? Is that worth paying an extra 1 or 2 million dollars?

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 12, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I’m not even counting the wins. I’m counting the number of competitive games. I’d be OK finishing in the mid-20’s in wins this year if we just eliminate the bulk of those listless blowouts. I want 78 hard played games (I’ll allow them to be flat once every month and a half).

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 12, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be happy if the team remembered to play a 3rd Q this year

instead of coming out of half time all Nattified.

But definitely would be overjoyed with the 78 hard played games. Plus Tyreke to be in ROY reckoning.

Sean May is not fat. It's widescreen distortion.

by elfboy_ on Aug 12, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused

If Natt = fuck (or shit), what the hell does fuckified or shitified mean? (And trust me, I’m well versed with the diversity of these words.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sort of agree with you HT

But when you aren’t a very good team it’s much harder to get those players for that type of value.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 12, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pook, here's where I think you may be wrong

I can’t see any reason for the Maloofs spending any more money for this season unless there is a really fortuitous pick up to be made. I’m not saying a Gasol type trade but something where they could pick up a high value player for low dollar outlay.

The cap situation for the 09-10 season is unknown at this point and if predictions hold up there are are going numerous teams unloading salaries in the mother of all salary dumps to stay below the lux tax. Additionally we have been hearing about all the free agents available after this season for the last two years. This could be the perfect storm for teams with money available and is the reason why I say; manage the teams money carefully, focus on instituting a recognizable offensive system, develop the kids to see what we have, use KTEC wisely and then based on what develops during the season use the draft (we will be in the lottery again) and our cap money to continue rebuilding.

It’s not sexy but given our owners financial situation, a team in early rebuilding mode and the arena situation (which is always a lump in my stomach) is really our only real option.

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Aug 13, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the moves that Petrie has made for the most part

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I also agree with your statement BJ

So, that is that.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could agree if they were planning to use the cap at the trade deadline.

But, if your planning on saving it because of fear of the every decreasing salary cap next year. Or to use the cap in next years FA market when cap space will be more valueable then even now. Then using the current cap space to sign someone to a 1 yr deal shouldn’t hurt the plan for next year. And, it might not even hurt us at this years trade deadline, since the player would be an expiring.

Here’s my worst fear. We get into the season and one of our starting biggest gets hurt. Now, we are no longer in a position of strength. Instead, we are in a position of weakness, and other teams will know it and be able to take advantage of us.

If we’re not going to use the cap space this year, then why did we trade away Miller & Salmon to get it. If we had kept Miller we’d have our backup Center. Then we could have trade Salmon on his own for expiring, and had the same cap space that we do now. Plus, we’d have Miller’s expiring this year.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Aug 13, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a lot of conjecture there with no real reason to say much else

My bottom line is that the deal saved the Maloof’s money, and it removed the 7’ pile of dung (Miller) from the roster. Who cares if Salmons is off. And, woulda coulda shoulda with injuries. That could happen with Miller (and did frequently) and there is no way he would have done well with a backup role.

Ego’s matter here. You’re totally leaving that part of the equation here HT.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

God I love

That 7’ Pile of DUNG line…. True… So True……

Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!

by FaStRmAn on Aug 16, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

am i completely of base

when i say i dont think this team is as bad as the record shows? with all the distractions & key injuries we had last year is it wrong 2 think we should of won atleast 25 games last year? i know everyone her is bracing for the worst & hoping for the best but i don’t think it would be crazy to say we get maybe 30 this year with more wins coming later in the season

by allbenji's on Aug 12, 2009 8:18 PM PDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I'm sorry

I try not to harp too much on these things – but I require a bit of punctuation, spacing, and relevant capitalization to make my brain decode a comment.

I did work it a bit and i mostly agree (I think!)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 12, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i did wrk itabit & i mosly agreee

that is

Sorry LPA and others are rubbing off a bit I guess – but make a little effort!

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 12, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I might fall under the heading of "others"

Seconded.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 12, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i broke my hand yesterday dick

& i am mobile commenting on my blackberry with one hand it seems like everytime a new person thats not in the circle of about 10 people on this site some pompose dick has to pick apart anything about their comment if this is a private site then just make it private

by allbenji's on Aug 13, 2009 7:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I had a similar injury not long ago

But I still managed to type to my usual standards; it just took me a little longer to do it. And I certainly did NOT use it as an excuse to go on obscenity-laced tirades, which will win you no friends at all.

I’m sorry about your hand; I’ve been there (twice actually). But if you’re looking for understanding, you’re definitely going about it the wrong way.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 13, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We have standards

We are a public site, free to use, free to join, free to comment. All that we ask is that you follow some standards when contributing. If you can’t, find another Kings community to join. We do not exist to serve one person.

The next time you engage in personal name-calling, you’re gone.

by Ziller on Aug 13, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's funny

but I don’t see anything wrong with his original post. Sure he used 2 instead of to and didn’t capitalize a few words, but there is punctuation and it seems pretty coherent to me. Many worse posts around imo.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 13, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Although, I detest the aggressive name calling (cannot support it in any context, newcomer or regular contributor) and TZ’s post seems to only address the name calling. But in regards to AllBenji’s syntax, his errors are not nearly as bad as the semantic and syntactic sins of regular contributors here that rarely get challenged. So I can empathize with the frustrations allbenji expressed: newcomers do come under greater scrutiny than regulars. Although I think LietotheGirls’s response was respectful and well intentioned. I wonder if some aspects of this riff could be avoided in the future by making new joiners sign off on a SactownRoyalty rule sheet before they are allowed to post. It might speed up the inoculation.

by BrooklynFan on Aug 13, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with Kfan here

That comment was very readable, and reasonable given the injury.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the other hand the 2nd comment wasn't.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you look at the man's other comments

You’ll see that he does not believe in the use of the SHIFT key or punctuation. I have no great complaint about that, even if I tend to be rather particular about writing generally. (Technical writing/editing is part of my job description.)

But my point is this. His writing style in the above comment has NOTHING to do with his injury. His casual shorthand writing style is evident in all his comments. The guy flew completely off the handle for absolutely the wrong reason. No doubt he is frustrated; injuries have a way of doing that. (I know; I’ve had my share.) But his reaction was TOTALLY off the mark.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 13, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand both sides

Which is/was/will be my point. (I agree that his first comment wasn’t that big of a deal. I agree that he didn’t have the right to fly off the handle.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True
Many worse posts around imo.

You’ve been pretty quiet lately though, so it hasn’t really been an issue. /pokes kfan

by otis29 on Aug 13, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're such a Richard

 ;p

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 13, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No no

Otis is a mental midget. Get it right. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm getting tag teamed by Kfan and pookey!

I’m sure most of the females on this board have had this nightmare…now I’m living it. :)

by otis29 on Aug 14, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I only tag team Korean models

So, you’re SOL buddy.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 14, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since when

did name calling become illegal around here? I see it all the time, along with much stuff worse than not capitalizing letters, and no one says anything.

And using the word “dick” twice is far from an obscenity laced tirade, in my humble opinion.

Kings fan in OKC

by rockrichmond2 on Aug 13, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dick with a small D is offensive

I’m just saying show the dick some respect

by ElRonToro on Aug 13, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

for example

some of you guys wash yout hands after using the restroom, I don’t get that,I wash them at the start.
Who wants to soil a masterpiece?

by ElRonToro on Aug 13, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Tom,

I have been a member since December and appreciate all the work both you and the rest of the contributors put in. The site provides great information and a good venue for us Kings fans to communicate.

The one thing however that does bother me from time to time, is the name calling and the ridicule that takes place. This is especially true when new members attempt to write comments or submit a fan post.

Granted some of the comments/fan posts can be a bit ridiculous nevertheless, it is not necessary to berate these folks. I simple explanation of what is expected is all that is needed.

Your recent comment to allbenji is fine with me provided you hold all the members equally accountable. If necessary I will provide you examples in the past where the language and comments used by long term members were far more offensive than his post.

Keep up the good work, but please lets work as a group to keep the site clean and free from derogatory statements and unnecessary ridicule.

by nothingbutnet on Aug 13, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I partially agree with this sentiment

Sometimes things get abusive and profane around here without being the least bit funny. But allow me to partly disagree on a couple of points.

First, I don’t believe there are comments that are far more offensive than the allbenji’s. The guy was angry and lashed out with a couple of choice d-words. There’s plenty of moderate profanity on this site; we’re not choir boys (and girls) here after all. But most of the time I find it quite funny and often very clever. Angry obscenity-laced ranting and name-calling is not funny. Clever Carlin-esque profanity is, IMO. Therefore I am opposed to cleaning up the latter.

Second, I don’t agree that some of the ridicule observed on this site is entirely inappropriate. As I’ve mentioned before, I am a relative newcomer to this site (May-09). I followed the site for a while before joining, and I eased my way in, trying to make intelligent commentary as I went. No one was ever abusive, disrespectful, or condescending toward me. In fact, they showed appreciation for my input on several occasions. But when people join StR and immediately put up a fan post full of horrendous grammar, spelling, punctuation, capitalization, and syntax, not to mention a completely lame set of comments or questions (“Hey guys, should I get a Kings tattoo?”), it shows a total lack of respect for the site and its members. Initially I tried to advise such newcomers on better site etiquette, but I quickly came to realize that most of them weren’t interested in being serious, thoughtful contributors, and they usually disappeared as fast as they appeared. Meanwhile many of the more dedicated members had an awful lot of fun (apparently having long since given up on lame-newbie reform efforts). In fact, some of the comment streams were downright uproarious. I generally don’t like to have fun at the expense of someone else’s feelings, but when someone joins up and instantly shows a total lack of respect for the site and its members, I cannot criticize the veterans for having some fun with it.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 13, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd because I'm glad somebody gets it (and new or old doesn't matter to me in the slightest)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hazing is part of being on a sports message board IMO

Maybe it’s elitist, but I’m not big on the existing members having to be a friendly welcome wagon to the new additions. If you are brand new to the board, take some time and get a feel for the site before you say something stupid. I pace myself every time I join a new board. I’ll try to make substantive comments and refrain from combativeness until I understand the dynamics of the board itself.

I guess this is more of a response to nothingbutnet, but it’s in general agreement with your statement MLS.

As an aside, holding all the members (long termers and short termers) equally accountable is, quite frankly, un-American. Elitism is WHAT MADE THIS COUNTRY GREAT. Let’s not just toss 230 + years of that aside to make the allbenji’s of the world happy.

Now get out there and wear your red, white and blue and be proud!

by otis29 on Aug 14, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I want to apologize

if I offended anyone with my comment. It has been a frustrating week being in the construction field & getting injured. I came to STR to get away from that & comment about the team I love, but I know when the godfather of STR Ziller comes down on you then you probobly messed up so I’m sorry. I meant “D” as in “jerk” not, well, you get the point. I am new to commenting but not new to the site. I wake up everyday & the first thing I do is check STR, & keep visiting throughout the day. I will try to not take offense so easily in the future, & oh yeah………GO KINGS!

by allbenji's on Aug 14, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To err is human. To forgive...also human, but at a much higher level.

For my part, I think you’re showing a lot of class. We all mess things up in moments of impulse. Every single one of us has one way or another, probably numerous times.

Sorry again about your injury. Like I said, I’ve been there. It’s not fun, but you’ll probably recover fully, and it will look a lot less major in hindsight. My best to you.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 14, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just messing with you allbenji

Your initial post didn’t bother me at all…mine was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.

By the way, I’m with you on your initial comment. I think this team was significantly better than last season’s record showed…not that they were a playoff team or anything, but they were better than 17 wins. A coherent coaching staff would have done wonders for that group.

So I could see a jump to 30 or 35 wins, regardless of how crazy that sounds. Doubling your win total is impressive, but not unheard of when there aren’t that many wins to double. :)

by otis29 on Aug 17, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd for truth (not justice) and the American Way

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 14, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Otis,

I appreciate your input and welcome your elitist approach.

As a member with 4 times your tenure I’m going to require my shoes be shined daily, my dog walked bi weekly, and my motherinlaw serviced whenever possible.

Peace out…

by nothingbutnet on Aug 14, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

4 times my tenure?

I believe you may have used some quantum calculations instead of traditional math? :)

I’ll need a picture of your mother-in-law…and your dog as well. Thanks!

by otis29 on Aug 17, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bit:

Why do this site and its members deserve respect again?

Arrogance is not a respectable trait; patience is. For those who think they deserve respect from newcomers, please remember that.

by DustyG on Aug 16, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's okay

I’m arrogant because I choose to be. Therefore, your point is completely stupid because my arrogance deems it so.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 16, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do hope you call out people consistently. You can start with me. I called pookeyguru a “douchebag” for telling another member “fuck you”.

by cbsf on Aug 18, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hope in one hand and shit in the other

Apparently it’s not happening. All of that was removed. I guess post count does mean something around here.

Kings fan in OKC

by rockrichmond2 on Aug 19, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As previously noted -

When an inappropriate comment is removed, any comments that are directly attached (meaning, via the reply button) automatically go out with the comment (what sense does it make to keep the response of a comment that no longer exists). In other words, post count is not a factor, at least not in this instance.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 19, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Allbenji's sorry to hear you broke your hand but I'm curious

I keep hearing new posters talk about the “site masters” “rulers of the site”, “the in group” and while I could easily come with some names of posters who post the most frequently I can’t figure out who you are referring here because if there is one common denominator among the frequent posters is their ability to disagree and many times to disagree quite strongly were names are called etc. Who are these guys who pick apart everything anyway?

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Aug 16, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the pressure of commenting with so much genius around them

Eventually that pressure dissipates and people either go one of two ways: Dusty, or everyone else.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 16, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No not really

The comment was tongue in cheek.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 19, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just wondering

if you were referring to me. I don’t understand the post; so I take no offense.

by DustyG on Aug 19, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh and BJ

I’m forever going to give you shit for joining GSoM before joining StR. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 16, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is a curious mental image...

How do you type with one hand broken and one on the blackberry, and one on the “everyone ignore me” button? Calling the entrenched hierarchy here names doesn’t work (I’ve tried it, and I got razzed and told to go stand in the corner) What does work is rational thoughts and the sharing thereof. If your points are valid, then they are.

 My problem is I tend to create the worlds largest paragraphs. It’s because of this stupid college liberal arts teacher who once told me complete thoughts amount to a paragraph. Since my entire post is usually on one thought, I usually make one large paragraph. I am not doing so now because it has been referred to by many here as a "WALL of WORDS! Not to be confused with a War of the Worlds. Anyway, the way I fixed that is to stop having complete thoughts when I post here. See, there you go. I’m fixed !! So you don’t have to worry about any of my prodigy posting here either…

Oh, and if there was an EDIT function on this blog like there is on many others, it would reduce the punctuation, spelling, and grammatical errors by 86%. Which I hope is Kevin Martin’s free throw percentage this year. Whala !!

Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!

by FaStRmAn on Aug 16, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you hit preview after writing your whole thought

You could very easily edit it to make it much readable. That’s what I do Fast. Your total thoughts are impressive. And, breaking them up into smaller paragraphs is not that hard. (It took me a total of 5 mins to read your paragraph, and a minute or so to really edit it.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 16, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you started using paragraphs

I was ready for fire and brimstone (or at least frogs) to start raining from the sky. It was the same with pookey actually.

Since I can now admit I enjoy reading your posts, I’m doubly sure it’s the sign of the apocalypse.

by otis29 on Aug 17, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The main reason we should be more optimistic...

is that there’s very little room to get worse.

by ZenBaller on Aug 13, 2009 10:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Tell that to the Lion's fans before last year.

You know it is possible to lose more than 65 games.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Aug 13, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did the Lions lose more than 65 games last year?

Damn, I didn’t realize they were that bad.

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 13, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

That is epic suckitude.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 13, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

News Flash

The Lions are relocating from Detroit to South Suckitude. (Reagan reference there.)

From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.

by My Losing Season on Aug 13, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's too bad you guys aren't in the East

Your “optimistic” season would be borderline good enough to get into the playoffs.

by KitIsh on Aug 14, 2009 1:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Now THAT !!

 Is the kind of thinking we need !! We will look at the season this year in terms of how high our seed would be if we were in the East !! That is brilliant! Then even when we are in last place and vying for the top draft pick again (that will go to NY, LA or some other big market team mysteriously..) we can then take refuge in the fact that our 29-31 wins would have us a 6 seed in the EAST!

 I am of the belief that this team is building thru the draft not only because it is the only way a small market team CAN build, it is the way they SHOULD build. Overpaying for talent and exceeding the luxury tax has gotten NY HOW MANY RINGS? Ahhh NONE. OK, then since the Maloofs can not outspend the big market teams because of the economic situation they are in, then they must out THINK the big market teams. Tyreke Evans is going to be a player we cant afford in three years. But those are going to be 3 glorious years I bet!

 Building thru the draft is the right thing to do in this economy. Staying well below the salary cap is the right thing to do in these economic times. Having the flexibility to take on more salary if needed to land a very good player when other teams are desperate to avoid the luxury tax and are not in a position to get talent for talent is a good position to be in! While we are all looking forward to cheering on this young promising group, there are other teams stuck where we WERE with too much salary and not enough talent to make a difference in the playoffs if they even make the playoffs. I like the position we are in NOW much more than I did 3 years ago. The youth movement will be fun to watch and the time will come when very good players will only be available to those that have sufficient cap room to take on the contracts involved.

 Teams are just now understanding the magnitude of the economic situation we are in and how it is going to effect their bottom line. Owners will get very testy when they are losing money and not making the playoffs! If the economy continues to be on the decline 2 years from now, teams will have a hard time selling season tickets to anyone. Single game tickets have become a luxury that many can not afford these days, and if the economy worsens that will only become worse. Empty Arenas are a real possibility for teams that are winning games if the economy dictates that the average fan stays home to watch on tv because the costs are too high to go to the games. No team is immune to the economy. The Maloofs are shrewd businessmen. They and Petrie have mapped out a strategy they believe will work despite the economic situation they are in.

Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!

by FaStRmAn on Aug 16, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fast I'll take your statement one step further (as I did rec it)

I think all teams have to build through the draft as it is the only way to get a superstar player unless you are a big time market like NY,Chicago, LA etc etc etc.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 16, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

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