Ilgauskas mid season trade rumors have begun

Cleveland has $39 MM tied up at center this season and need another piece to compete. Ilgauskas is an expiring 11.5 (great trade bait). 11.5 plus Poodle's contract makes a lot of cap-space next year for Petrie. Does he have anything the Cavs might want? Or has the Sactown brain trust beat this scenario to death already?

2 months ago BrooklynFan 32 comments 0 recs |

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Nocioni?

we’d have to take on another $4 million, but I think he’d be a pretty good fit in Cleveland. He’d be a great role player off the bench that could guard Rashard Lewis or whoever else deep in the playoffs,

"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton

by submison on Aug 24, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

IF they were interested

Yes, I’d say Noce could be a big piece for them.
BZK’s comment below has a lot of weight though. It just depends what they’re thinking I guess.

I happen to think Noce will have some value in young players/picks at the deadline though.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 24, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From your perspective

what teams do you think would trade for Nocioni that have picks/youth? I might be able to see Portland but they don’t have (wing men) what we want (defensive bigs)

"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton

by submison on Aug 25, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A team thats contending in Jan

Thats wants to win now. I think we’d only be interested though if it were for some young players/picks.
I have no idea yet who that interested team might be – but a contender who gets a player injured or just needs another piece etc…

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Aug 25, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem as I see it is that we don't know what we need.

Think about it. We probably don’t need a PG, but we really don’t know. The only guy who’s played enough to have a good idea about is Beno. We should be okay at 2. What about 3? The only guy that we know is solid there is Noc. The others could be gone in a year or two. Four? Do we need a starter there? Not if JT continues to improve the way he did last year. Hawes? Same thing. What we really need is another season to see who proves good enough to be a starter and who seems to be a back-up or worse. I don’t see us getting a proven 4 or 5 for Noc, and even if we could we might end up wishing we still had him when our 3’s didn’t pan out. I think patience is best at this point.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Aug 25, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

And then there Mays

who is a big question mark as well. The only thing we know we need for sure is a back-up 5, but if Hawes doesn’t improve he may be the back up five and we may need a starting 5.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Aug 25, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very, very well said.

Sums up our current situation nicely. That is why it probably doesn’t make sense to trade at all until at least the deadline, some of those questions should be answered by then. rec’d.

"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, and the three most powerful men in America are named 'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon.' Need I say more?"

-Chris Rock

by Big ZK on Aug 25, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd think Noce would interest the Cavs

given their inability to match up with quick 4s like Rashard Lewis.

by LPKingsFan on Aug 25, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We wouldn't need to take another $4M

We’re under the cap.

I tend to think Z is more important to them than Nocioni would be; the deal, I assume, would result in the Kings waiving Z and Cleveland re-signing him after 30 days (and a requisite flirtation with, I don’t know, the Spurs or something).

Give us Hickson and I’d pull the trigger to facilitate the move.

by Ziller on Aug 25, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd go for that

But I wouldn’t want to take Z just for the sake of taking Z. There would need to be something more.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 25, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if it means getting rid of Noc's contract?

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Aug 25, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

I think Noc’s contract is blown out of proportion. I think the team would be hard-pressed to find an equivalent talent for an equivalent price in the 2010 market. I could be wrong, depending on what team revenues and the salary cap looks like next season, but that’s just my thought.

The biggest argument in favor of trading Noc, in my mind, is to clear up playing time for Garcia, Casspi, Greene, etc. But if that’s the basis for the trade, the team needs to be sure that the other guys are an upgrade. As much as I like Garcia, I haven’t seen enough to prove he should be a starter. And I’m optimistic that maybe Casspi can become a starter-quality SF, it’s unrealistic to expect him to be ready this season.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 25, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMO it's worth it just to

free up developmental PT for Greene and Caspi. As it stands right now. Garcia will take most of the backup SG minutes and some of the backup SF minutes, leaving maybe 10 SF minutes for Greene and Caspi. Now sure they may find some time backing up at the 4 but I don’t think that’s ideal.

And don’t forget the log jam at the PG now. We need to make sure ’Reke gets minutes so he may need to see some time at the 2. We really need to move one SF.

I don’t know why you think the team needs to be:

sure that the other guys are an upgrade

We’re not going to be competing for a title over the next 2+ seasons even if you’re wildly optimistic. Beyond that is Noc going to be here or even effective anymore? If he has value, move him.

What we need to do is find out what we have. I don’t think burying our youth at the end of the bench is not the best way to do that.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 25, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair points

But I also don’t think that Noc is the kind of talent that would result in burying our younger players. I think he’s a better talent than the other guys we have, but not so good that you would have to give him tons of minutes. Let’s say you give him 25 mpg, and split the remainder amongst Donté, Casspi and a few for Garcia (assuming most of his minutes come as the back-up at 2). That gives Casspi and Donté around 10 mpg each to grow and develop.

I think there are two reasons why you want to be sure you have an upgrade before unloading Noc. First, as I said before, I don’t consider his contract to be outrageous. He’s a guy you trade if the right deal comes along, but the Kings don’t need to trade him out of desperation to get out from under his contract.

Second, this team needs to be competitive. I’m right on board with demonstrating patience, allowing the younger players to develop, and taking some lumps along the way. I’m not going to pretend that they’ll be championship contenders. But it is also important for the team to be competitive in games this season, and prevent a culture of apathy and losing. Noc is a guy who has been in this league, and regardles of his offseason comments, he didn’t appear to pack it in last season when there wasn’t much left to play for. I think he still brings value to this team.

We also tend to focus on how little difference a couple of wins will make this season, but from an economic standpoint, it does matter. The Maloofs need this team to demonstrate a better product on the floor to increase revenues by however much they can. A few extra wins may not make a very big difference in revenue either, but every dollar is important for the franchise right now.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 25, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see where you're coming from

and I agree we shouldn’t hurt ourselves moving Noc, but I also don’t think your minutes work out like you think they do.

If Kevin gets 35(last year he got 38) and Noc gets the 25 you’re calling for that leaves 36 minutes to divide between Garcia, Greene and Omri. Garcia will get at least 25(last year he got 30) so that only leaves 11 minutes total for Greene and Omri.

And that’s assuming Tyreke gets all of his minutes at PG and he’s competing with Beno and Sergio. I would bet that he will see some minutes at SG.

You may be able to pick up some minutes by having JT play Center and Noc and/or Greene playing the 4, but I think those minutes will be offset by Tyreke’s minutes at SG.

The other issue/problem with your projection is, if Noc is the better player why would a coach play him less time. If getting those extra 2-3 wins are as important as you say, then shouldn’t he play his best players the most minutes?

We shouldn’t be desperate to move Nocioni, but I think we really should move him as soon as we can get a decent deal.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 25, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points

I think we’re on the same page with Nocioni. If there’s a good trade opportunity, he’s certainly not someone that the Kings should hold onto as a part of the future of the franchise. But at the same time, he’s not so terrible as to warrant a desperation deal.

As for the minutes, this is why I’m not a head coach. Or assistant coach. Or rec league coach for 6-year-olds.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 26, 2009 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is

we could dump Beno’s contract too

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 25, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have to ditch Nocioni for expirings and maybe slightly more if you can

You don’t build a good team by paying average players average NBA money. Calling Nocioni an average NBA starter is being very generous to him, and assuming he’ll have a good year.

Even if you believe Nocioni is fairly priced, you don’t make a good team by paying all your average players what they are worth. You need money to pay the really good players, and that money is made available by finding average players on the cheap.

If we had a lot of good players, and Nocioni was one of the final pieces, his contract is fine; that’s why he makes sense on a contender. He makes no sense on the 2009-10 Kings and it is difficult to imagine where he fits in, during the life of his contract. If he makes no sense for us anytime during this deal, get rid of him and reload with someone that might be part of the future.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Aug 26, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I may be naive, but

I think the Cavs hold onto him. He has been so loyal to them through the years, he was with them when they were awful, and now he is accepting the backup role. And they’ve been loyal to him as well, through those terrible injuries. It just seems like, if anyone were to stay with a team for their entire career, it’d be him. I think Lebron loves him, and he still holds a lot of value to them. Their problem regarding him last year was that he would just stand around the perimeter and shoot threes, not be assertive in the paint. He sure seems like the perfect compliment to Shaq, offensively at least. And when Shaq is out he can be a solid defensive center. I dont see Ilgauskas being traded.

-Chris Rock

by Big ZK on Aug 24, 2009 5:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yea exactly

Plus, let’s not forget, the Cavs wouldn’t mind that capspace themselves next year.

Screw you Knicks! LBJ to the Kings!!!

by Shizzo on Aug 24, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Especially

considering he durability of Shaq these days. I wouldn’t want to have him as my only center without a backup.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Aug 24, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep. That's what I was thinkin'.

Having two quality bigs is a luxury in the NBA.

October 28th couldn't come soon enough.

by JETisKing on Aug 25, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

The big Z just has too much history of respecting the Cavaliers organization; the least the team could do is try and reward him for his patience by keeping him on the team when they’re so much closer to the reality of a championship than ever before.

"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton

by submison on Aug 24, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His history with the Cavs

is one of the reasons Danny Ferry is having trouble with the thought of trading him. Maybe we trade Noc for Z, buy Z out on the cheap, then he can go back to Cleveland

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 25, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

That would be good for both teams I think. If Petrie is solely concerned with dumping salary to have more cash for FA next summer then he could buy out Z for 7.5 MM, saving the franchise Noc’s salary over the next two seasons at the sacrifice of Noc’s production in 08-09. The Cav’s would only have to pay Z the balance, 3.5, to show him the respect he deserves, i.e. his entire salary and the Cavs get another piece for roughly the same money it would have cost them for just a back-up center. For the Kings I think doing the deal depends on whether or not Omri or Greene step up into serviceable back up SFs during the first half of the season. Then again, so much of the off season chatter about what teh Kings could be seems to be tied to what Greene and Omri are capable of becoming. Ho hum…

by BrooklynFan on Aug 25, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

it definitely opens up the SF spot. Cisco can start there until either Donte or Omri are able to take it over. It really is win win

In fact, we could throw in Beno as well. They get a solid contributor in Nocioni and an okay backup PG. Plus, they’ll get Z back

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 25, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We can only hope

Nocioni/Udrih then buying out Illgauskas would go thru.. I would be happy if that happened.

"Greg Ostertag is one of the finest centers in the history of Western Civilization." - Bill Walton

by submison on Aug 25, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I made this second unit team in my head, and it cracked me up

PG – Beno
SG – Pavlovic
SF – Nocioni
PF – Varejao
C – Ilgauskas

I know Verejao starts, but I couldnt keep him off of this All-Drama-and-Flop team.

by DustyG on Aug 25, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Plain and simple fact

We have nothing to give the Cavs that will help their title push the way Z already does. Z might add to our front court, but if we ain’t starting him (which we ain’t gonna do in interest of developing Hawes) he’s not worth bringing in to grab a couple of extra wins at best.

At worst, Z plays a majority of the season, we are moderately successful, Hawes doesn’t develop. Worst Case A: We don’t resign Z in offseason, we go back to being toast. Worst Case B: We do resign Z and tie up our cap space for years in a player who won’t bring us a title.

Sean May is not fat. It's widescreen distortion.

by elfboy_ on Aug 24, 2009 9:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Again

I don’t know if getting cap space for 2010 is even worth it.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Aug 25, 2009 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't see the Cavs trading off big Z

Big Z to the Cavs is like Vlade to the Kings. …Except the Cavs have Shaq, also…

by CloudyEyes on Aug 25, 2009 5:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Z is their only decent back-up to Diesel

And I would rather have Camby from the Clips. They got DeAndre Jordan to develop behind Kaman. Seems more likely and more beneficial for the Kings. They could use a combo guard like Beno and a tough 3/4 off the bench in Noce.

by Ice_9ine on Aug 26, 2009 6:34 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs