How to Upset Me If You're a National Sportswriter
by Exhibit G on Aug 28, 2009 3:39 PM PDT
in Commentary
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PrintJohn Hollinger and Ric Bucher have been breaking down each NBA team as their way of filling the summer void. The basic premise is that Hollinger provides one player per team that, based on his statistical analysis, is trending up, one player trending down, and then Bucher chimes in with a player to watch. Yesterday's installment (Insider) covered the Kings.
Overall, I thought it was a decent write-up with some good thoughts. The trending up player was Spencer Hawes, the trending down player was Francisco Garcia, and Bucher's player to watch was Tyreke Evans. I'm not going to recap their entire analysis, apologies in advance to those without Insider.
What bothers me is when a national sportswriter, such as John Hollinger, haphazardly throws in comments that have no supporting basis, and explanation. Statements such as this:
Hawes likely will start in the middle, though it's possible he'll come off the bench as the top frontcourt reserve if Jason Thompson shifts to center.
Statements like this make me angry. There's no other way for me to describe it. I like to consider myself a rather informed and well-read individual when it comes to the Kings, and I haven't seen anything that indicates that the team is considering such a dramatic shift to the starting line-up. If I missed it, please let me know and I will quickly remind everyone that I am an idiot.
The first possible explanation I can come up with is that Jason Thompson started at Center in Summer League games. This, of course, was because of Spencer Hawes' well-documented miscommunication with the team. But Thompson struggled in the new role, so it wouldn't exactly lend itself to speculation that Thompson would relegate Hawes to the bench.
The only other explanation I can think of would be if Hollinger had heard some whispers from his sources. I struggle to believe this possibility, not only because of the reasons I've listed above, but because Hollinger provides no other details.
With no supporting details, this becomes a reckless piece of speculation that cheapens what should be an otherwise interesting article. I'd probably even consider giving Hollinger a pass if he didn't follow up with a similar throw-away line about Kevin Martin during his discussion of Garcia a few paragraphs later, saying:
Garcia may end up starting at small forward depending on how the Kings want to line up this season; Andres Nocioni or even moving Kevin Martin are other possibilities at the 3.
The Kings certainly do not lack options at the 3. Between Nocioni, Garcia, Casspi and Donté, the mere mention of Martin at the 3 seems to indicate a complete lack of research regarding this team.
I'm not sure if there is any solution to this type of problem, at least not until the season starts and we can talk about real games again. This season cannot come soon enough.
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I agree with you G
in that it makes me mad that people seem to do so little research. But I differ with you on why I think Hollinger suggested JT move to Center with Hawes come off the bench: I think its because he looked at the Kings roster and the only big men with height are JT and Spence. He couldn’t see who was backup center, mainly because the Kings do not have a backup Center.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Possible
But I can’t see any logic in the idea of not playing your best players in your starting line-up.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Ben Gordon and Manu Ginobili?
Still, Hawes isn’t the “Sparkplug off the bench” guy, and I don’t see any situation in which he doesn’t start next year, other than us trading for a Center that’s significantly better.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
If ignorant sportswriters make you angry...
… you are destined to be a perpetually angry person.
Also, the article is internally inconsistent in that if Hawes is the player trending up why is he being demoted from a starter to a reserve player? Makes no sense whatsoever.
It seems like most sportwriters are sportswriters because they incapable of writing about anything else. And many of them are incompetent at that as well (e.g. Ailene Voisin).
I think national sports writers have to cover such a broader landscape that they lose some depth to their analysis.
Still, I guess it’s no excuse to make things up (if that’s what happened here). But if you’re looking for knowledge and accuracy about the Kings, you should probably just read Sam Amick.
You sir
Could not be more correct. Alienate Poison is a horribly incompetent writer. She is a hate monger who uses personal attacks to stir up a story that isnt there. These national writers are all on the East coast and have an East Coast bias. I pay no attention to them. None have even been to a Kings Practice or Summer league game I would bet… Don’t get too mad, they are clueless
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Yep. There's no in-depth research in that piece.
Not sure how Francisco is a trending down player. He’ll only be 29 by the end of this season and I think he can still improve his game. We’ll finally have a focused team where he’ll play an important part on both ends. Crazy.
The best coverage for the Kings is found on Sactownroyalty. Shill!!!
October 28th couldn't come soon enough.
between Shock and Hawes, Shock is the one
Who would be coming off the bench.
I don’t blame Hollinger. Small market team, no nationally televised games, no wins last year.
I don’t think he watches any games. Pretty sure he just sticks to his computer read outs.
Sounds like Bucher made a nice call though.
by Ice_9ine on Aug 28, 2009 4:10 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Bucher made the easy call.
Of course you watch the #4 pick.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
His comment on the 3 spot indicates that his "sources" and "research" come from reading StR
Because I know it has been mentioned by different commenters that if Sergio pans out it might nice to move Tyreke to the 2 and Kevin to the 3.
www.mancancook.net
what are the chances Noc starts @ the 4
And Shock backs up Hawes? Not saying I would want that.
by Ice_9ine on Aug 28, 2009 4:13 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
My sister, my daughter, my sister, my daughter...
Part of me agrees with the columnists view in that the Kings have a sort of scattershot identity. Who knows who will start anywhere? The other side of me says they are full of Bull Plop. My idea of the starting lineup should be:
Hawes
Thompson
Garcia
Martin
Evans
We have no true backup 5 and we have an over abundance of “3” type players.
By the way, what’s with not signing Brockman yet? It’s not like anyone else wants to be the rebounding machine this team so badly needs and I don’t feature him as a hold-out type.
How’s that for a first post?
Purveyor of Bull Plop
Love the Chinatown reference
And I agree with your roster, but I could see Noc at the 3 with Garcia off the bench.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
It's insider
And copyrighted. Posting the entire article here would be illegal, and unfair to the writer.
The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.
by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 29, 2009 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn't have a huge problem with Hollinger's article overall
I think it just confirms the bias that the national writers have toward the small market teams. Pook has written about this numerous times and the basic point is that they tend to know a lot about a few teams and a little about the rest. Overall Hollinger knows hoops pretty well and is far from ignorant. His PER is as good a metric as any, although it tends to under credit rookies in general but most other metrics do as well.
My take was that they didn’t spend much time analyzing the Kings and his line about Spence was pretty much a throwaway. Until we regain some respectability in the NBA that’s what we are going to see from all the national sports media.
The thing that really bugs me about the national media is the writers who claim that they have inside sources within the organization. From what I can tell the King’s front office just doesn’t leak. Period. The only writer who occasionally has advance information that’s credible is SAmick from the Bee and when he has a scoop regarding the Kings it usually turns out to be true and even he rarely gets more than 2-3 days advance notice.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Ain't going to happen
At least not until Tyreke shows that he can’t handle the PG position. And, I can’t wait to see Kevin defend the likes of KJ, Artest, or any SF over 200lbs. He has enough problem defending SG’s & PG’s.
Garcia is our backup SG & SF, so I don’t see him starting at SF. And, if any of the SF’s move over to PF it will be Donte with his new found bulk. So, with a starting C & PF rotation of Hawes, JT & Mays. Tyreke seeing major minutes at PG. That only leaves Martin & Garcia a SG, and Noc & Casspi at SF. I intentionally left Brockman out because if Mays can play 30 minutes, I don’t see Brockman getting in the game unless JT can’t resolve his foul trouble problem.
As far as, who’s going to be slipping. My guess is Martin. Not completely off the charts but enough that he still won’t be All-Star caliber. With a new finisher in town, and a much more potent offense, Martin’s scoring production is coming down. Maybe, with less pressure to produce offense, he can work on improving his defense.,
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Agreed.
And, I can’t wait to see Kevin defend the likes of KJ, Artest, or any SF over 200lbs. He has enough problem defending SG’s & PG’s.
I’m still waiting for him to defend other SGs as well. I hope this is the year he excels at both ends.
October 28th couldn't come soon enough.
I don't care if Kmart doesn't excel at defense
but I do care that he is competent at least. And I think he will be, especially if his ankle’s healthy.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I'm excited to see how well Martin produces
remember, this is the cat that was doing freaking well with ballhogs Bibby and Artest on the team (as well as nothing resembling a reasonable power forward who could draw away the weakside help).
Unless Tyreke turns into a complete ballhog and JT and Hawes don’t implement the passing game we all hope they damn-well-better-have, I think Martin’s production this year should not deteriorate on the offensive end, and in all likelihood will become meaningfully charismatic. I don’t think if you had the overs/unders at 22 ppg there’d be anybody willing to take that bet on big money, so you know, that counts for something.
Victory is tasty.
This isn't going to be a Theus/Nate or even Musselman team.
If Martin is ever going to be a leader than he’s going to have to play like everyone else is expected to play. Ball movement isn’t his specialty. But, under Westphal he’s going to have to move the ball and set up others. So it’s not going to be just the fact that he’s going to have less shots. He’s going have to learn how to set up JT & Hawes.
But, even if Reke isn’t a ball hog, he’s going to be competing with Martin for the crunch time shots. When the shot clock is running down, the rest of the team isn’t going to be limited to feeding the ball just to Martin.
I believe Westphal is going to play a more traditional inside/outside type of ball. He’s said already that the wants to see Spencer in low more. So, I expect a lot of pick & rolls with Reke or one of the bigs taking it to the hole. And, a lot of passes into the low post where Spencer either shots or kicks it out high. And, if I’m right, Martin is going to be the 3rd option.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
rec'd. Nice read ExG. I particularly like
If I missed it, please let me know and I will quickly remind everyone that I am an idiot.
well I guess that is the point. We are all idiots, and in an idiot contest I dare anyone here to outdumb me.
In the same vein, the national sportswriters/columnists/bloggers kowtow to a national audience and are often victim to feeding the masses want they think they want, small market (and accuracy) be damned. As confirmed idiots, we still read their drivel. Their words carry the relevancy of mass market exposure and for the most part, most of the time, not much else.
What?
no mention of Rashad McCants or She-Will? Being a national sportswriter covering a small market team is no excuse. These db’s get paid a boatload of money for their analysis. The Knicks will be awful but I’m assuming their analysis was pretty in depth.
by allbenji's on Aug 29, 2009 8:03 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Lack of research
Is because no one wants to watch the worst team in the league. I mean, I’m a Kings fan, but assure that the national sports writers are not.
by Carl on Aug 29, 2009 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It's tough covering guys on other teams on a regular basis.
I’m not offering up an apology for obviously wild statements for those writers, but I understand.
I get paid to cover basketball on a regular basis and I’m often asked to cover teams that I don’t watch regularly or care much about. I just have to dive right in and go for it when that happens.
The Kings are my team, so I obviously bring more knowledge when covering them, but I can’t imagine trying to speculate on their particular rotations if I were an outside observer. They have a roster full of round pegs and square holes. No way Hawes comes off the bench, and also no way does Martin move to the 3 (obviously he is in the Tyreke is a SG camp, he said it without saying it), but it’s almost impossible to speculate what will happen at the 3 or the 1 if you have to write about it now and speculate on how things will turn out going into the season. I was recently asked to do a number or player reports for a magazine that will hit the shelves shortly (we are trying to get the jump on everyone else), but it is almost impossible to figure this stuff out with no camp. And, not to ruffle the feathers of the fanbase, but the Kings are at the bottom of the interest list for most of these guys and they don’t exactly jump for joy when asked to cover them. I feel the same way when I’m asked to write a team profile for say the Washington Wizards.
Anyway, we will always be experts on our own teams and know more than the outsiders, but hopefully the guys that get paid to bring up league wide coverage do their best to provide us with good coverage and not botch obvious stuff.
kingskingdom.com
Lead fanball correspondent for the Sacramento Kings
in a business where reputation counts
accuracy is a must. It is easy for me to say, but, not checking a source, especially if you are a Hollinger or Bucher is a form of laziness and shows a lack of pride in your work.
I don’t have to answer to a deadline or editor when I type my tripe as a simpleton blog commenter and perhaps this supersedes answering to a small market, hapless team fanbase, but the stain of opining on obviously wrongful facts obscures my bothering to read the authors’ work. If I get annoyed enough, I discontinue my ESPNInsider account, ESPN gets less money, etc. It eventually effects their paycheck, someone has got to care.
Do you read a movie review from someone who has what you consider to be a worthless evaluation? I skip it and seek information elsewhere, as I remind myself of their inadequacy under my breath.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 29, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Not going to argue with you.
Yeah, they need to be accurate, I completely agree. I also strive to be as accurate as possible in my work. It takes time and effort.
The two biggest things they were brought up were pure opinion though. Perhaps they think that Kevin Martin is capable of playing the three if Tyreke plays the two. I do not, but maybe others do. Whether Tyreke is a PG or SG complicates this since their best team (at least offensively) might be with Martin and Evans on the floor at the same time. He isn’t the only writer asking if Tyreke will play the two and what they will do with Martin if that is the case.
Hawes has come off the bench before and did for parts of last season as well. Thompson added quite a bit of bulk and could be a center in this league. Once again, opinion. If he thought that Thompson is or could be a center and that he could be playing over Hawes at that position, then it isn’t a wild speculation. The writer said “it’s possible” which suggests to me that this could happen, but he also said that “it is likely” that Hawes will start. He is covering all possibilities, which is pretty much his job isn’t it? To me that reads, Hawes will “likely” start, but Thompson could also play the center position.
As I said, this team is a nightmare to try and cover from a writer’s standpoint. Nocioni is a 3-4 but not truly suited to either, Garcia is a 2-3 and even started at the 1 at times last year, Hawes has been both a 4-5, Tyreke 1-2?, Thompson is a 4, but could play the 5 in my opinion. The only given at this point is that Kevin Martin is the starting shooting guard.
It has nothing to do with fact checking as much as the Kings have a lot of versatile players that might also be classified as “tweeners” with no natural position and that causes as much of a problem as it does solutions.
If I’m a writer asked to cover this team and don’t follow them on a regular basis, I’d be a little confused as well. Fact checking involves actual facts. They dealt with possibilities, which is actually very responsible since they are informing their reader that “hey, this could happen and is an option with this club.” He also gave you the “likely” scenario in each case. Hawes will likely start as will Francisco in his opinion. The Martin to the three was pure speculation, but I can obviously see where it is coming from (Tyreke is a 2 in his mind, so that would give them the best offense).
Yes, some of his thoughts were maybe not what is likely to happen, but it certainly could happen and is a “possibility” as the author points out. I bet we do see Thompson play the center once in awhile and I also bet we see a small ball offense with Tyreke, Martin, and Beno out there (particularly against teams like GS or PHO). Will it happen regularly? Probably not. Is it a possibility? Sure.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
I took my shot at a roster preview over a month ago.
http://kingskingdom.com/2009/07/19/an-early-roster-preview-and-potential-camp-battles/
If this is trolling or you guys don’t want it up there on your site, please take it down. I just thought it was relevant to the discussion at hand to show that I’ve already tried this piece and it wasn’t easy.
That is my take on how it will play out. I think Noc will start at the 3 so that Garcia is the backup to the 2 and the 3. Otherwise, you have Tyreke as the backup SG and if they are serious about playing him at the 1, I don’t think they want him thinking like a 2 as a spark off the bench.
Anyway, thought it was relevent, but don’t want to step on any toes. Please take it down if you think it is poor taste. I don’t want to be “that guy” that is only here to pimp his own work. That is not my intent at all. Some people seem to like it as it generates more discussion, while other forums/sites are more protective. You guys have a great site here and I plan on being a regular as a good Kings fan.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
I can't speak for others but your intelligent expression of your thoughts and opinions is openly welcomed
and I agree that opinions can be baseless, pointless and silly – but everyone is allowed one (an opinion) as they make take the same stance with my musings.
The Kings are an enigma. Sometimes I think the less defined positions (1-2, 2-3, 3-4,4-5) are not just a characteristic of this team but of the current League in general. Players play, position be damned. Look at the current (and recent past) “greats”: is Tim Duncan a 4 or 5? Dwayne Wade a 1 or 2? LeBron? Kobe?
A statement two or so months ago by Geoff Petrie and repeated by Jerry Reynolds addressed the lack of position definition of this current squad. Don Nelson is famous for his fuzzy floor placements of his players. But I am off the subject.
I guess when Hollinger and Bucher and whomever speak poorly and write off base opinions I shrug it off when it is once in a while but the trend has been too consistent to ignore, disdains follows. They are purported experts, the League is not that big and the information superhighway is a keyboard away.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 29, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
My thoughts
You bring up some good points, I honestly do not envy the task of writing about each team, particularly the bottom dwellers such as the Kings.
However, it takes very little time to look at the Kings roster. Based on a roster list and production numbers from last season, it would not be hard to tell that Hollinger’s statements do not make sense. Aside from Hawes and Thompson, we don’t have very much in terms of big men who could start.
As for your point of Hawes having come off the bench before, I feel like that’s a =n easy out for Hollinger. He came off the bench when Brad Miller was on the team. If Hawes is healthy, on this roster, he is the starting center.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Completely agree
Hawes will start at center, there is no doubt to me anyway. But, we have talked about a total lack of a backup already around here, so I could see Thompson playing some 5 as well (maybe more than they would like). I cringe to think about the nights when both are in early foul trouble, which could be often.
I think Thompson is capable of manning that position, and I think we may see him slide to center a lot this year (in game), even though Hawes will start. Thompson will give them that luxury and that is probably why they haven’t really filled that backup spot yet for Hawes. Then when Hawes comes in, Thompson will get his breather as Noc slides to the 4 or May comes into the game. There may end up being a lot of funky lineups out there this year that could actually work.
On the issue of positions vs. basketball players. I totally agree. We will have to see how Westphal plays things out and his feelings on rotations and positions. The coach will often dictate such things. A guy like Adelman had a clear 1 through 5 and set 6-7 off the bench. If Don Nelson were coaching this team, then Hollinger’s article wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow since Nelson has a total disregard for positions as he puts different lineups out there (very frustrating for a writer. I think Don Nelson and Lou Piniella are the same person in different sports or at least share a brain and have a vendetta against me, anyway moving on). We really won’t know until we see how Westphal plays it and how liberal he will be with his lineups, particularly when they play “smallball” teams like NY, Pho, GS.
Fantasy sports author for Rototimes and Fanball. Northern California sports fanatic. Kings blog: Kingskingdom.com
you plays the cards you are dealt
you get a place at the table, the rest is up to you.
by betweentheeyes on Aug 29, 2009 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
bte - well done, it has been far too long since anyone has used the word
supersedes around here.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
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