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Is GP too respectful of other GMs?


Today the Denver Nuggets traded Stephen Hunter ($3.6M one year contract) and a protected first round pick to Memphis for a second round pick.  This is reminiscent of the famous Suns/Sonics trade of a few years ago... clearly a salary dump by Denver.  Why couldn't we have gotten the same deal?  While I have no illusions that Hunter would add a single win to our total, we do seem to be a little thin at the 4/5.  Spending $3M for a first round pick and a serviceable player on a one-year deal seems pretty good to me --- though its not my $3M.  If it wasn't for the Grizzlies making the deal, I'd say finances probably made it cost prohibitive, but for God's sake if the Griz can afford it, surely the Kings can.

All of this got me thinking that I don't ever recall GP making a trade when everyone thought he "put one over" on some other team.  Am i wrong?  I mean, Kupchak had the balls to call the Griz and say "how about i give you a bunch of crap and take that Pau Gasol guy off your hands?"  More recently, the Spurs traded a bunch of crap for Richard Jefferson.  There are perhaps 6-10 deals in the last decade in which the consensus was that one GM stole somebody for nothing from some idiot GM.  I just don't recall GP being one of those guys. 

The good news is that he is also not one of those guys who gets taken advantage of and makes a stupid deal.  I think most of his deals have been reasonably fair on their face.  Maybe it became one-sided after the fact (e.g. due to injury) but for the most part the consensus was that the trade was "fair" to both sides.  That's not a bad thing and shouldn't be undervalued.... but,

GP, pick up the phone... make the ridiculous offer... who knows what you might hear on the end of the line. 

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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I saw that trade too and thought "An expiring contract and first rounder for a second round pick? Wow!"

Then I thought “And the Grizzlies weren’t the ones getting fleeced?”

I’m worried about going outside now for fear of the sky falling

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 7, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Sigh

The Suns/Sonics deal was different. The Sonics took Kurt Thomas and his 8 mil + salary plus the 2008/2010 protected 1st rounders in exchange for all of his salary.

That is not the same as what Denver did.

What this is similar to is the deal that Denver made with OKC last year to get their 2nd round pick (that included getting under the luxury tax).

Clearly this deal is about saving money, and getting a lower pick that won’t cost Denver the same amount of money. It’s a decent deal for both sides, although I’m not really convinced as to why Memphis did it honestly. But, that’s me.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh

I mean to say the Suns 1st rounders were/are unprotected.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously the Grizz are just accumulating more 1st rounders since they are so

confidant in there college scouts… oh wait.

There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru

by moproblemz on Aug 8, 2009 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

They figure they need more draft picks than usual

so they have a better chance of getting someone who’s actually decent. Without scouting, just go for trial and error.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Aug 8, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Via Jeremy of Roundball Mining Company (True Hoop Network)

Has this great point about why the Nuggets probably traded Hunter:

Even though Hunter was trying to work his way back from his latest knee surgery with the intent to play in 2009-10, it has always been clear that George Karl never trusted him. If this trade is indeed a straight salary dump as it appears there can be a basketball component. If the player who fills Hunter’s vacant roster spot is a player that Karl does trust and can play even a little bit, that will be a plus.
(Note: He does say it is a bit frustrating giving up another 1st round pick, but given that you can only sell 1st round picks for 3 million, he thinks the money saved by giving up Hunter’s salary, and the luxury tax, is a good reason.)

By the way, 2 issues of note here: 1st is that the Nuggets gave up a protected pick meaning that anything where they get a quality pick in 2010, they will keep it. Also, they sent cash to Memphis as well (which is probably the most important part of this deal) which is why Heisley agreed to do the deal.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 4:22 PM PDT reply actions  

If you read Jeremy's post

There is some reported protection from Hoopsworld (which I’ve never found to be accurate so we’ll see) that is 1-14 in 2010 and 1-10 in 2011.

So, that’s that.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still a great trade

that i’d have loved for Petrie to make. A first rounder AND another expiring that could’ve been used as trade bait along with K9?

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Aug 7, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

There isn't anything great about this trade

It’s just Michael Heisley being the scumbag that he is.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

unfortunately due to the kings financial situation

I think their goal is to save money. If they can do that without selling off talent like Heisley did with Gasol then I am happy.

But it is a slippery slope when other organizations with extra cash are willing to pay you here and now for your top talents and the Maloofs are in ‘save or move’ mode. A heart-wrenching trade could reasonably happen within the next couple years. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

But if it does, let’s not point fingers at Petrie, or any other GMs. Heisley is the one who forced the Gasol trade. The Grizzlies organization is not as interested in basketball as it is cash considerations. Just pray the Maloofs don’t learn how to do the Heisley trade/laundering thing.

by Ice_9ine on Aug 7, 2009 4:36 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I don't see this as a matter of respect for other GM's

I see this as not wanting to pay $3.6 million to move up a dozen slots in the draft. Think about it – Denver’s pick stands to be in the mid-twenties, while our 2nd round pick stands to be in the mid 30’s. Sometimes these deals look a lot better than they really are.

And I would say the Richmond for Webber deal was pretty heavily weighted in our favor, as was Williams for Bibby.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 7, 2009 7:11 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

I think the Christie trade qualifies as well

After all, Doug broke down shortly thereafter.

by hozr on Aug 7, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought you meant the first Christie trade

as in the one that brought him to Sacramento. That was a great trade.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Aug 8, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Only reason Heisley did it

Because he has roster spots to gain at some point. There isn’t much difference to Heisley (especially so far below the cap) when he has to fill out his roster.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also

By moving up 10 or so spots, the Grizz could nail a sleeper (well if they had scouts that is).

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

all they need is jay bilas’ best available board

by Gnomercy on Aug 7, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

sleepers is as sleepers does

sorry, my attempt at a Gump-ism

Dwayne Wade at 5 was a sleeper, Karl Malone at 13 was a sleeper. Tony Parker at 28 was a sleeper. Vlade Divac at 26 was a sleeper…. and Sleepy Floyd is a Sleepy.

I think this is a wonderful post btw. I don’t get the impression that GP is trying to “screw” anyone. I think the man is respectful of the process and like any GM worth his salt is trying to make the best deal he can get at the time. Second guessing is just that. What goes on behind the scenes will remain cloaked in “what if’s”, “how comes’”“why didn’t we’s”.

As for process: You are Denver and you want to do a deal. You take your list of most likely to do a deal that YOU want and who has under the cap space and you run through it. If I was the 2009 Executive of the Year I would pick up the phone and call -- Geoff Petrie first!. Uh, no. Make that the Grizzlies. Deal done, no more phone calls to make.

Is it me or is there some parallel between the Michael Heisley/Chris Wallace and Donald Sterling/Elgin Baylor/Mike Dunleavy ? Could we call them the Tennessee Clippers?

by betweentheeyes on Aug 8, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

As Ziller pointed out at NBA FanHouse, Memphis actually had to acquire some salary just to meet the minimum requirements

At the moment they run a “rent our cap space” scheme, and let other teams reward them with cash and draft picks. They did the same last season with Chris Mihm for the Lakers, Shaun Livingston when Miami wanted to move him again, and probably others that I’m forgetting. This offseason they did it for Jerry Stackhouse, and now for Denver with Hunter. They work like a lubricant. Have a deal you can’t get done? Call Memphis. Have a salary you need to dump to get under the tax? Call Memphis. Bring some cash and a pick.

In this case, employing Hunter costs Memphis just around $700k, which isn’t a bad deal for a guy who is mainly there to provide depth. And they got a better pick for their trouble. Denver clears the cap space and saves luxury tax.

"I'm addicted to polo y'all...respect my fresh" - Travis25Outlaw

by Norsktroll on Aug 10, 2009 6:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Given how crappy a NBA market Memphis is

In some ways I can’t blame Heisley.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 10, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Glad I read the comments before posting.

I was about to say all of that. And probably not as succinctly.

by Charlieb on Aug 8, 2009 5:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Those were the same trades that came to my mind

If anything, I’d say that Petrie has a reputation that other GMs respect him (and he shows mutual respect), but may be wary of dealing with him since he has pulled off a few really good trades.

He’s certainly made some bad trades as well, but hindsight it 20/20 and all that.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 10, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Name me a GM with a perfect trade record

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 10, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

For the parenthetical slice of wit.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 7, 2009 8:48 PM PDT reply actions  

I wish I could say it was intentional......

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 7, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're getting senile old man.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Aug 8, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Getting?

I think the act has already been accomplished.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 8, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that a response is in order -

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 8, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Newb

;p

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 8, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope -

Oldb.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 8, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's a new aspect of phraseology here at StR

You’re either a newb or an “oldb”.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Aug 8, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

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