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30Q: Will Smallball Return to Sacramento?

30Q asks the important questions about the Kings all through September.

Last year, Kings fans got a tiny taste of giantball -- when Brad Miller, Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson all player together -- but more often a dose of smallball, with Andres Nocioni, Francisco Garcia and Donte Greene getting some minutes at power forward.

According to 82games.com, Garcia received 7% of the team's allotted power forward minutes. Nocioni took 8% of them and Greene took 4%. That equivocates to smallball happening roughly 20% of the time last season. (By contrast, Thompson played 4% of the team's minutes at small forward ... and that was the only alignment for giantball.)

So that's smallball 20% of the time, giantball 4% of the time, and something like normal basketball alignment 76% of the time. Is that what will happen this season, or will smallball take greater precedence?

Star-divide

The key, I think, is how Paul Westphal uses Andres Nocioni, and how long Nocioni remains in Sacramento. Nocioni is a proper tweener, even though he's short for the PF spot. He's burly, and he bangs, and those traits seem to be the most important in terms of playing small. When you play small, you necessarily give up post presence, which generally translates to conceding the rim area. It doesn't have to be like that (see Shawn Marion's heyday) but it tends to be the case.

Nocioni, again, is burly, and while he's not as good a rebounder as your typical power forward, he can get the job done. That he stretches the floor is key -- there's no use playing a small forward at the four if he isn't dangerous from outside. The real benefit of playing small is adding speed or range. Nocioni has range covered, whereas other small forwards may not.

Defense is obviously a concern -- Nocioni got burned at the power forward position last season, both in Sacramento and Chicago. The Kings aren't likely to be good defensively regardless, but it's something that'd need to be watched.

The interesting twist to Sacramento's smallball possibilities, of course, is in Greene's development. Donte packed on some muscle over the summer, lifting frequently at the behest of the franchise. He did look much stronger on the court in Las Vegas; he rebounded extremely well for a small forward, and what would be considered average-to-good for a power forward. At some point, actually, Greene could bypass the smallball talk and just become a power forward, though the team currently has a lot more potential power forwards than small forwards.

Omri Casspi is another candidate; it remains to be seen how he'll fit in the rotation period, let alone in moving up a weight class. The team hopes to mold him into a point-forward, likely more easily done as a small forward where many of the typical big man duties can be avoided. If Casspi becomes a good rebounder, it will be on the offensive end, where his energy and athleticism can be more easily implemented.

There's another facet to smallball more concerning the center than the PF -- as in, if Thompson is your center and a true PF like Jon Brockman or Sean May lines up next to him, is this smallball? I would think not, as Thompson seems like an actual center to me. Opinions can differ on this, and Thompson certainly isn't a prototypical post player, but I think he qualifies as a center. Now, if the team lines up Nocioni next to Thompson, that's clearly smallball. But Thompson/May or Thompson/Brockman (or even Thompson/Kenny Thomas) would be considered normal fare anywhere else; the fact that the Kings have bestowed Thompson with the title of Power Forward of the Future has diverted attention from the fact Thompson might actually be a center.

With just one true center, and one power forward (Thompson) we'd consider an able center, there will no doubt be ample opportunity for smallball. But it remains to be seen -- and will affect the season very much, I think -- how heavily Westphal will feature it, and how well this roster can pull it off.

Poll
How do you feel about smallball with respects to this roster?
Excited
157 votes
Terrified
115 votes
Roster? What roster? Where I am? How did I get here? Who ate all my pancakes?
139 votes

411 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 43 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I could see JT at the Center

he is actually just a little taller and heavier than Stoudemire. But he’d have to be more agressive at taking it to the hoop.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Sep 14, 2009 11:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Too bad he has a third of Stoudemire's talent - as of right now.

There’s a lot of room for improvement for young JT.

October 28th couldn't come soon enough.

by JETisKing on Sep 14, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I absolutely hated smallball last year when Natt instituted it

And its why I keep clamoring for turning a wing into a decent big. But I don’t want a big for having a big’s sake. I want someone who can contribute in a meaningful way.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Sep 14, 2009 12:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Also

I’d just like to say I think there’s no point in playing Casspi as a PF. He did in Europe, but Euro PF’s are too different. He’s also doesn’t have the bulk yet. I’d rather have him rely on his speed and aggressive slashing mentality, as well as continue to develop that three pointer, cause I think he could become absolutely deadly as a spot-up 3 point specialist.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Sep 14, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

i really like the idea of Shock at center

I think he even has the right mentality and energy to come off the bench instead of starting.

I would love to see Greene develop enough where Hawes, Noc, and Donte start at the front line, and Shock is the first big man off the bench for the 4 and 5 positions.

There is a lot of pressure on Greene. I hope he knows that. And I hope he really gets an opportunity.

by Ice_9ine on Sep 14, 2009 12:56 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I understand why smallball is necessary for this roster

considering the glut of SFs and PFs but few centers. But I don’t like it.

If Donte pans out, however, I can see him and Casspi playing the forward spots together a la Lewis and Turkoglu in Orlando. That becomes a lot easier, though, when your center is Dwight Howard. Maybe if Shock or Hawes becomes a Dwight Howard (or we package both of them for someone like Howard) then I’d be ok with that going forward long term.

So, in the short term, small ball is ok considering the need to get minutes to the players needed development (or do we just send Donte to Reno again?)… but I’m not excited about it, especially looking toward the long term.

by LPKingsFan on Sep 14, 2009 1:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Shock refers to Jason Thompson

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 14, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Where did the nickname originate from, any idea?

by Fast Break on Sep 14, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was created here by Ziller

It started as a nickname for Spencer(Shock and Hawes) and morphed into a nickname for both of them. Shock (Thompson) and (Spencer) Hawes.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 14, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't it also originate

from everyone here being “shocked” when he was drafted by the Kings? Thought I read that somewhere

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Sep 14, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was the reasoning for taking the shock

portion of Spencer’s nickname “Shock and Hawes”(a play on “Shock and Awe” the Gulf war attack) and giving it to JT.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the first place that I saw it -

Got another one, with an assist to TZ for the title of this thread: Shock and Hawes.

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 12, 2008 2:40 PM PDT

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 14, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

mmmm Pancakes.

Sugar ... water .... and, of course, purple.

by Dub_TC on Sep 14, 2009 1:48 PM PDT reply actions  

My thoughts exactly!

The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.

by LeaguePassAddict on Sep 15, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks like we'll be getting quite a bit of it

whether we like it or not.

The key will be getting stops and rebounding the ball. That way we can exploit the speed advantage on offense. Small ball doesn’t work so well when you’re always starting from the end line.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 14, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Good points

With the current lineup we don’t have that many options. Also, the ability to play team defense may really be key.

Given the potential lack of defense and inability to play enough transition the style of offense has to be considered. I think that the dribble drive discussed in past posts would also really help as it breaks down the defense and could be played up tempo enough even when forced into a half court game by bad defense…

by MustangMBS on Sep 14, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Love this Q

TZ,

I love this thread of the discussions. I really think that this could be some of the most effective basketball this team can play.

I think that JT has the right instincts for Center and in watching the Summer League games Donte can really do well at PF. Then there is Brockman… Hmm… Yes, I think that this really allows for a faster game and more of the transition Westphal says he wants to run. You make great points about Nocioni and this type of game shifts players into positions that just make a lot more sense…

Then you combine this with Evans and Martin running and quickness in the guard positions. I can just see the cutting, slashing, and ball movement happening..

And the best part. This type of play will get fans into Arco seats which will keep this team in Sac and help get an arena built.

Go small ball!!

by MustangMBS on Sep 14, 2009 4:36 PM PDT reply actions  

What in summer league made you think Greene can play the 4?

I thought everyone concluded he did a terrible job at that.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Sep 14, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glimpses

Maybe I was reading too much into his ability to defend He looked more muscular and didn’t seem to shy away from going after the ball… I think that at 6’11" it seems that he came over and defended well enough and I think that he finished around the rim in the games I was watching. I have three or so on my DVR and will have to go back and watch…

by MustangMBS on Sep 14, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

No

Everyone concluded he had a rough summer league in total, but mostly because his offense sucked.

He rebounded and defended well at the PF in VSL.

by Tom Ziller on Sep 15, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Go big or go home

I can’t think of a championship team, in recent memory, without a dominant big man on their roster.

by CloudyEyes on Sep 14, 2009 5:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Didn't have a superstar big man

but they sure as heck didn’t play small ball

by LPKingsFan on Sep 14, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

C'mon

Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton probably weighed two hundred pounds combined. Ben Wallace was the smallest effective center that anyone could think of, and Rasheed Wallace played like a SF. Not to mention Lindsay Hunter came off the bench, and McDyess, while not a small guy, had knees so wrecked he could hardly elevate more than Greg Ostertag. Chauncy Billups was the only guy on that roster you could consider big for his position.

When you look at that team, you certainly don’t think size. Sure, they played like giants, but no one said playing small meant everybody had to get their PG skills on.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Sep 14, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

That said

I LOVE big lineups, and I LOVE big point guards.
Can’t wait to see this lineup:
Cisco
Greene
Casspi
Thompson
Hawes
It’d be straight gigantism on display.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Sep 14, 2009 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Prince and Hamilton are skinny

but they’re both long. Sheed may stay on the perimiter too much now, but he’s 6-11 and averaged 2 blocks per game their title year. Big Ben was short, but a beast. Like you say, they played like giants. They may not have been Tim Duncan and David Robinson (or Bynum/Gasol/Odom to name a more recent big playing title winner) but it wasn’t Nellieball out there either.

by LPKingsFan on Sep 14, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

The last Spurs chamiponship team

played small ball – Parker, Ginobli, Finley, Bowen, Duncan was a commonplace lineup.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Sep 14, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Unfortunately, our small-ball lineup does not include the talent of three all-stars, a dirty defensive stopper and a hard-nosed veteran. The potential is there in the long run I suppose.

October 28th couldn't come soon enough.

by JETisKing on Sep 14, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Luc Longley was 7-2

again, no dominant big man, per se, but no Nellieball either

by LPKingsFan on Sep 14, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nelly plays Biedrins

he’s no midget.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Sep 14, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

How many games did they win last year?

Small ball has to be operating perfectly IMO to give you a real chance to make the playoffs – and win.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Sep 14, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its our best chance to win this year

but anyone paying attention knows I firmly believe that you need a big man who plays at the rim (dominates at the rim) to have a serious chance to win a lot of games.

Imagine Al Jefferson at the PF for the Kings, leave everyone else intact (OK, we need someone to win the 3 spot)

Thats a playoff team man.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Sep 14, 2009 11:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Al Jefferson and Spencer Hawes

are very good complimentary pieces. And then factor in K-Mart and Tyreke in the backcourt. But this is all conjecture. But yes that’d probably be a 6th to 8th seed this year.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Sep 14, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

how about not just small

But all white too?

Spencer, Noc, Omri, Beno, Sergio.

Or… Not.

by Ice_9ine on Sep 14, 2009 11:21 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Small ball will happen unless we can avoid injuries & foul trouble

Donte isn’t small but it’s going to take alot more than a little time in the weight room to make him a PF. It will take a mid range jumper and the ability to dribble drive & finish. JT can play center, but he is vertically challenged. At this point I’m not sure he can out leap Miller. All tip backs, no rebound and power dunks under the basket. Plus he’s still has very few low post moves, and is still developing his left hand.

Without a legitimate backup center, I see games where JT & Spenc are either in foul trouble or nursing some injury or both. That leaves us with May & Brockman playing center and Noc & Donte playing PF. Let the nightmares begin.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 15, 2009 2:06 AM PDT reply actions  

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