30Q: Which Path Will Jason Thompson Take?
by Tom Ziller on Sep 21, 2009 12:10 PM PDT
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Print30Q asks the important questions about the Kings all through September.
You may not know it, but Jason Thompson stands at a crossroads. (Note: he may not know it either. Note #2: he may not actually be standing at a crossroads, which may explain why he nor you may not know that he is standing at crossroads.) After a rookie campaign in which Thompson showed elements of consistent offense while offering vigorous (if flawed) defensive intensity, Shock can follow one of two paths.
He can become a high-volume offensive threat.
Or, he can become a defensive star.
Circumstances may prevent Thompson from increasing his usage rate much beyond what he had last year (a bit over 19). Those circumstances actually have names: Kevin Martin, Tyreke Evans and Spencer Hawes. The Kings have possession soakers. But Thompson can force himself into the equation -- heck, he actually did so last season by cleaning up so much garbage around the rim.
On defense, the opportunity is there. The team signed Desmond Mason to be a stopper, for crissakes. ("Consecutive days bemoaning an unguaranteed minimum salary signing" streak intact. Yes!) Thompson's work ethic and energy level befit a defensive star. He just needs the skill development and league smarts now. (Those are, of course, no small things to wish for.)
There does exist a middle path for Shock Thompson, though.
I spoke with David Thorpe about Thompson last week. Thorpe, as you know, trains Kevin Martin and (now) Omri Casspi. He also writes for ESPN.com. I suggested to Thorpe that I feel Thompson has the opportunity to move toward a LaMarcus Aldridge type of play (midrange focused) who always looks for his shot, or a Udonis Haslem (who shoots as the recipient of a set-up by Dwyane Wade or, previously, Shaq) and instead focuses on defense.
Thorpe suggested Thompson could do both: focus on hitting the shots set up by Martin and Evans, while concentrating on defensive excellence.
We pay a lot of lip service to two-way players in this league. But in all but the most extraordinary circumstances -- I'm talking Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Tim Duncan -- there's a sincere trade-off to be made. Even Kobe, an exemplary scorer and defender, has to balance his energy on each side of the court. When Kobe is at his truly best on offense, someone else is guarding to opponent's top dog. When Kobe is in shutdown mode on defense, he noticeably drags a bit on offense. (Of course, because so few NBA writers pay attention to defense before marking up their award ballots, Kobe -- who hasn't consistently performed at All Defense team level for at least four years now -- still gets honored for his D.)
Thompson cannot be a 20-point scorer and an All Defense candidate in this league. If he is too focused on offense, he won't be shutting down the Kevin Loves and Blake Griffins and Paul Millsaps. But this isn't to say Thompson can't do his best to become the Kings best defender all while relieving the pressure on offense by hitting shots and the boards consistently. The Kings have playmakers. While the assist numbers may never be great, Evans can set up his teammates -- he did it for Shock in Vegas. And while Martin isn't renowned as a passer, he draws so much attention. (And rightly so.)
A lot of great defenders are nothing but role players on offense. Bruce Bowen in the corner. Dikembe Mutombo, waiting for a carom under the rim. But Thompson can be more than that -- he has a versatile offensive game, and he showed it off in Vegas and last season. He's solid (if unpolished) at the rim. He's smart on the pick-and-roll. He's able to hit 18-footers fairly well. He can draw fouls. He's one of the best in league on the offensive glass. He has multiple useful tools on offense. But those can be best utilized, in my opinion, in roles complementary to what the playmakers are doing. Don't run plays for Jason Thompson -- run plays which leave Thompson open and the guards in a position to hit him with a pass.
And let him focus on defense. Lord knows we need a killer defender. (Actually, we need about three.) Hopefully, everyone in the organization (Thompson included) can get behind a drive to make him the defensive centerpiece of the frontcourt, an evolved Udonis Haslem/stopper version of LMA. He has the body and the spirit. He can do it.
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I think JT has the potential to be very good on both ends
And I think if I had my druthers, I’d prefer him to be better on defense, because I see Spencer as being one of the better offensive Centers in the league in a few years. I’ve made the comparison before that I think JT is very similar to Antonio McDyess, and the advanced statistics comparisons agree with me, except for on the defensive end. The Kings as a team last year were absolutely horrid on defense, so every single players defensive rating is pretty bad, inlcuding JT’s 114.
In McDyess’s Rookie Year (McDyess was one year younger than JT in his rookie year), he had a defensive rating of 107. His defense was actually better than his offense. He also had a block percentage of 3.6, to JT’s 1.9. And other than for the blocks, I think that this had to do more with the lack of a coherent system in the Kings, the horrible coaching, and the lack of experience by the roster as a whole. The veteran big on the team was never known for his defense (Brad Miller).
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
that would make my year!
If JT could live up to that comparison, that would make my year! McDyess – pre-knee problems – was a beast. I don’t think JT is athletic as McDyess was, but he does have better handles and a much better shot.
I read a quote from Westphal earlier this year where he said JT had the potential to be a good defensive player. Most of his problems now are with not moving his feet and picking up cheap fouls.
I think having a defensive guard in front of him will help prevent some of the cheap fouls too.
I was thinking AC Green...
but McDyess is a good role model as well. I fear that JT’s footwork isn’t good enough to be a quality defender… ironically, I also think it limits him on offense down on the block too.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Sep 21, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Footwork can be taught
Kings didn’t have very good teachers last year, and he was a rookie.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I hope so,
but there are “plodders” out there and no amount of teaching is going to change that… at times, JT looked like a plodder last year. (“plodder”, the opposite of nimble).
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Sep 21, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I know what plodder means
But JT’s young, and he’s smart. Plus we’ve upgraded our Assistant Coaching staff in my opinion with good teachers, and am especially excited to see what Truck Robinson can bring out of our bigs.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Sometimes he was definately a plodder on defense
but very rarely did he look anything but nimble on offense. Almost too nimble sometimes which contributed to some dumb turnovers.
Peja-vu!
Agreed
at times, JT looked like a plodder last year.
JT strength is strength and not athleticism. He’s not incredibly quick and he isn’t a great jumper, which is going to naturally limit his ability to be an elite defender. That being said, there is always, ALWAYS a place for a tough as nails guy bangs the crud out of people on defense and knocks down shots on the other end. I still say JT is a better Kurt Thomas or Brian Grant. (AC Green seems like the perfect comparison.)
JT's footwork was rough last year
But it did improve over the course of the year. I’d say it went from bad to below average. At the beginning of the year it looked like he could barely jump off of one foot. He would often jumpstop before he could get up, giving defenders a chance to get in better position or challenge the shot. In and around the rim that really hurt him, I think.
He improved; and I think he can get better yet in this area. Purely in terms of footwork, he canimprove through drills and conditioning. But I think his inexperience played a role as well—not sensing the appropriate movement etc.—and of course that’s going to come with more play.
I doubt he’ll ever have ‘good’ footwork, but he might not need that to become a good player.
I'm not sure his footwork will ever be good enough
to be a true Star on either end of the court.
I’d say it went from bad to below average.
I agree with Dusty.
I think his ceiling is ‘good NBA PF’.
- but I’d love him to change my mind.
I do think the next level is all about footwork for him, one way or another.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 21, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Jason Thompson needs to step it up a notch
On both sides of the court. I disagree with all of that say 12 pts. is enough for J.T. When the opposing teams don’t respect our big’s enough they focus on the guards with double teams. Shock needs to be a 16-18 point guy and legitimate on defense for the Kings to roll.
for martin
to post 24 points a game, thats only 6 points a quarter..and who is going to have the ball in their hands more? J.T. or tyreeke and martin?
I want him to focus more on defense
Simply because i’m perfectly okay with what JT already does on the offensive end. His offensive production was decent but it allowed him to have all that defenisve energy. I’d just like to see him focus that defensive energy into becoming the beast we know he can rather than being in constant foul trouble.
www.mancancook.net
Plus he is a great offensive rebounder
I don’t think we need to worry about JT’s offense too much.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
We don't
I like his offensive game where its at. He doesn’t need to score a lot when Kevin, Tyreke, Spencer, and Cisco will carry the scoring load. If he can score an efficient 10-15 points a night with offensive put backs and pick and rolls he’ll be just fine. He did that just fine as a rookie and still had energy for defense. I just hope he becomes more polished on that end where we need it most.
www.mancancook.net
Agreed
Still think we need a defensive minded backup big though, cause my strategy right now against the Kings is to be to take the ball inside and see what JT and Spence are made of, try to get them in foul trouble early, cause then you have to make the lineup smaller, and less talented. And then you continue to take it inside for easy buckets.
Games against Orlando are not going to be pretty this year.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
yep
If JT can become a good defender than I think he and Hawes can at least hack it, but only if the 3rd big is a defensive enforcer type like we had with Pollard back in the day.
Definitely both
Good piece… He can really improve on the defensive and offensive end. More defensively, but none of these young players should settle for being stereotyped into one mold. If they believe the stereotype then they won’t work as hard.
The Kings don’t have a good history of valuing defensive players. I was really surprised about the signing of Desmond, “for defense,” as it seems like the best defenders get traded away.
But back to JT. This kid has heart with a capital H. He really gets in and works, tries his damnedest and competes. That is something you can’t teach. He can learn a lot with good coaching and is worth the investment.
Can't wait for rookie mistakes to fade away
I would be really excited to see Thompson simply maintain his level of offensive production from a scoring standpoint as long as he starts making better decisions with the ball.
His bread and butter as a spot up mid-range shooter and garbage man on the glass are exactly what the Kings need him to be. Where he got in trouble were the times when he wanted to do too much and was indecisive as a result. These moments led to really costly turnovers.
Peja-vu!
Offense vs. Defense
All JT needs to be on offense is good enough to demand a double-team, good enough to pass out of the double-team, and to dominate the offensive board. If he can do that with the production we should expect from the other starters, he’ll be fine on offense. On defense, he needs to also dominate the boards and hopefully defend his man without much help defense. Tough assignment
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Sep 21, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions
So basically you want him to be Tim Duncan.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
that would be nice...
somehow I knew you would say that…. no, not tim duncan, but a top 10 PF in the league would be good enough. In other words, he doesn’t need to become an Allstar for the team to improve dramatically with him as a starter. I think your McDyess comparison is exactly what I was suggesting.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Sep 21, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
chemestry
If JT can shore up some strong D, and be willing to get his 10 to 12 pts. a night from put backs and the occasional mid ranger, I would be happy. We have a lot of guys who need to have the ball in their hands i.e. tyreke, kevin, hawes, and cisco to a small lesser degree. JT is great off the pick and roll, and a good clean up guy on the offensive garbage. I think he can have a hell of a career focusing on that, and be a solid contributor.
I'm excited
The transition from Rider to the NBA is a big leap, and Shock did well. Moving into the starting line-up was a big step. We take it for granted when we consider Mikki Moore, but for all his faults, Moore is a tenured NBA veteran. Thompson overtook him as an inexperienced rookie. His potential is truly exciting.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
With you again G
JT had made big strides in reducing reach in fouls towards the end of the season. BTW, really niece piece TZ.
JT should be able to get at least 10 points a night just off of putbacks. When you add in a few mid range j’s he capable of and if he gets the left hand under control and can finish a little better and assuming Westphal is successful in reminding the rest of the team to look for the open man down low rather than settling for a contested j’s, then 16 – 18 points a night seems very possible without running a single play for JT. (How is that for a run on sentence?)
I would love to see JT focus on his d. If he can do that and maintain a decent scoring average then he has a real opportunity to improve his game and become really valuable to the team. As I’ve mentioned before, part of the reason that JT’s offensive rebound rate is that he often got 2-3 boards just putting his own shot in. What that does speak to though is the incredible energy and focus he is capable of and if he can transition that to the other end of the court while increasing his defensive effectiveness he can really turn into something special.
The Kings have Kevin and a handful of other decent shooters. Last season we didn’t lack scorers Having JT raise his defensive effectiveness would be the best sort of internal development for the team. JT is a smart kid and his big feet aren’t going cause problems for ever. I think he has all the tools to be the sort of “both ways” player that TZ described above and if both he and the Kings are willing to spend the time to help him develop it will be an investment well worth pursuing.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
putbacks
Im not 100 percent sure that 10 points off of putbacks is possible, as that would require atleast 5 offensive boards a game, and he averaged just under 3 a game. But, those putbacks were a huge part of what he does.. I could realisticly see him sticking to 3, maybe 4 offensive boards a game, and 4 to 6 points off of putbacks. If he could bring his FT percentage up just a couple more notches and get into the 72 to 73% range with FT, I t hink you could see his avg/gm go up to 16 or so. Not lofty at all, considering he is already at almost 12 pts. a game, and those put backs often times come with a foul or an and 1 opportunity.
I would rather
Him focus on Defense, he will have to guard the Pau Gasol’s, KG’s, Amre’s…. So let him get his foot work down, his mussel up and staying out of foul trouble. Hell have Hawes play 1v1 against JT all day everyday. Hopefully Hawes offense will improve, and JT’s Defense will improve simply because they don’t want to lose to the other.
Nice write-up TZ
and I agree. We want both! Get it done JT.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Defense and rebounding
Leave the offense to others. Unless it’s offensive rebounds and put backs.
Ba-da
JT's biggest offensive flaw
In thinking about JT and his game I have to point out one item. His need to dribble once before putting an offensive rebound back up. He consistently does it. Every time and it gives the defender just enough time to cover him and contest the shot.
I think he has room to improve on offense and disagree with many of you in that. I would say that it is more of the little things, but if he would just put the ball straight up he would probably score 4 more points a night. That would add up…
It is going to take JT another year or two for his body to fully mature
he isn’t a plodder but he does have size 20 feet, they are not easy to move. Jt was still growing until his senior year at Rider, he will continue to get bigger and stronger for another year or two and still is very quick up and down the court. Time will tell what he is going to be. I really don’t like comparing players to past players I hope JT will be the best he can be not a such and such player from years ago. JT will continue to work hard, play hard and improve I wish him all the best.
by Beagle12 on Sep 21, 2009 7:50 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Yes,
I agree that he isn’t a plodder. Not sure where that came from. He can run and has a fairly good handle for such a big guy… I heard somewhere that he used to play guard, but got too big.
If he keeps growing and getting stronger and fills in those size 20s then he definitely should be playing more C and not PF. I bet he benches more than Spence already.
I also think it is not good to type players into a role. JT can develop, and should, all aspects of his game. Just cause we got Evans, Martin and others does not mean that JT can’t be a all around, scoring player. With all the attention they get he should be getting 15-18 every night if they play off the double teams and he can put back those rebounds well enough, see above post of the put backs..
He was a guard for Rider as a Freshman
and then had a big growth spurt. Its why his handle is so good for a big.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Actually I don't think that's quite true
I believe he played guard early on in high school, but he was a forward all four years at Rider. That’s what the Rider box scores indicate. But the basic point still applies; he has guard skills that he has retained from his pre-pro days.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 21, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Thought something like that...
Thanks for the info and clarification. In the somewhat unstructured chaos of the Summer League games I saw him taking the ball, driving, and passing. Pretty stinking good for a guy as big as that.
This might also explain his tendency to over-dribble when he gets an offensive rebound. Guards tend to want to move and dribble under the basket to find an opening whereas bigs just know they can elevate and take it straight up. Maybe he hasn’t quite adjusted to being such a big stud yet and needs to work on his ‘get the hell out of the way of this dunk’ attitude.
I think for sure he can become a premier rebounder
maybe he won’t be a great interior defender (he ain’t gonna stop D-Howard), but if he starts boarding at the defensive end as hard as he does at the offensive one, he’s gonna help this team win a whole lot more simply by eliminating 2nd chance points.
I think he can be a 12ppg (if it’s true we won’t run offensive plays for him) and 10rpg PF this year. And he’s more than capable of being a 15-12 guy once he learns all the veteran tricks.
Sean May is not fat. It's widescreen distortion.
He was 14.6 pts and 9.5 rpg per 36 minutes as a rookie last year
And it seems likely he’ll get 30+ minutes a night this year, seeing as how he averaged 30.6 minutes this year as a starter, and hopefully he stays in games longer this year with less rookie mistake fouling.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I like the Kurt Thomas comparison a lot. I especially like it because they both have big ol’ wide feet. Those oversized feet look like they sometimes get in his way in the post. Whatever it is, it’s strange how a big strapping guy like him can look like a beast rebounding the ball but look very weak trying to score with his back to the basket. He doesn’t create separation down there. When he tries turnarounds, he’s wildly off balance. He’ll do spins and step-overs and not gain an inch of space.
He’s a tough guy to do comparisons with, one because he’s so early in his career that it’s hard to say what his strengths and weaknesses will definitively be. I doubt that he’ll ever be the best big man on a championship team, more like the second or third. That makes him a role player but I don’t know that he’ll be an elite defender like Kendrick Perkins and he’s certainly not as limited like someone like Tony Battie.
I think he’ll be a solid all-around big man whose only above average skill will be rebounding but who won’t be a liability in any area. He could be a very valuable rotation player on a good team. There’s a number of good teams he would have a role for even next season. A team like Dallas would love to have his rebounding and his upgrade in athleticism over Dampier. New Orleans would probably love to have him, Atlanta, Toronto, etc… His size, rebounding and capable offensive ability make him a valuable piece, if not of a top 3 piece, of a championship caliber team.
if JT's defense could become
like Perkins’ it would be a great achievement. Perkins is always left alone on offense because he hasn’t good shooting skills, while JT could punish a similar defense.
With Martin, Hawes and soon Evans we already have very good choices on offense, and God knows we need guys who focus on defense
"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan
Go Kings!
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