Mayor Kevin Johnson on Cal Expo Kings Arena: 'Time ... Is Running Out'
by Tom Ziller on Sep 22, 2009 4:06 PM PDT
in Arena
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PrintI dare say Mayor Kevin Johnson went a bit off his talking points in a blog post regarding the NBA's plans to build a new arena for the Kings at Cal Expo. The news hook is that ARCO Arena was not selected by the NCAA as a site for the future rounds of March Madness. ARCO has hosted regionals four times in the past 15 years.
Of course, it's disappointing for all us basketball junkies, it's disappointing for the Maloofs who could use that arena revenue, it's disappointing for city and business officials who want to build Sacramento's stature. But it's also an opportunity to rail about the need for a new arena in Sacramento.
Mayor KJ did not let that opportunity pass him by.
I've been watching the developments at Cal Expo regarding a potential new arena for the Kings. I know lots of hard work has gone into those discussions. And I'm familiar with the many failed efforts to build a new arena in Sacramento.
Today I fear the Cal Expo discussions -- like so many that came before -- won't bring results fast enough, if at all. Clearly, the time for discussion at Cal Expo is running out. I can tell you I won't be standing by watching other promoters reject Arco Arena. I won't wait for the question, "Who's next to go?" The arena issue needs the Mayor's leadership. And that's what it's going to get.
Mayor KJ then pledges to be a leader on the issue. My worry is that the mayor's leadership on this issue connects with his leadership on downtown revitalization, and that alliance of concern coming out of the mayor's office serves to disrupt the Cal Expo progress for the sake of reigniting the downtown arena idea. That's just a hunch -- and I should say I'm as worried about Cal Expo as the mayor claims to be. It's too big a project right now, and the region is in too much trouble to rely on the faith of big-time developers.
I'm glad our mayor is engaged and passionate about the arena issue. But it'd be foolish to ignore his motives. Be wary if Mayor KJ continues to assert his opinion as we move forward.
(Hat-tip: CBS 13.)
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To be fair to the Mayor
I don’t really think the Cal-Expo plan makes sense since the Railyards are so much better for the city as a whole. But this is an argument we’ve all had before. Honestly as long as an arena gets done and the Kings stay in town I’ll be happy.
Hey we should build the arena in Folsom! That way I won’t have to drive 40 minutes to get to Kings games!
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I can see it now
The Arco Arena of…Galt, CA
Purveyor of Bull Plop
I don't want to beat a dead horse...
…but that thing just moved.
The railyard is a better place for a stadium, but Cal Expo is a better place for a builders/investors/government to make money.
A stadium is a one trick pony. It brings in revenue through events and sports. A development like the one proposed brings in the stadium $, as well as sales taxes from the shopping, and property taxes from surrounding homes. Like I’ve said before, the railyard is “a new stadium” while the Expo is a new retail development that happens to include a stadium". The latter is both easier for the public to support and gain funding.
Plus, while the initial investmnt for developers is higher, the payoff at the end is MUCH higher. Instead of just getting paid to build a stadium, they also get to profit off the cheap to build, but high priced surrounding retail.
I’m with you, I’d rather have the new stadium at the railyard, but from a builders perspective, Cal Expo is way easier to make pencil.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Sep 22, 2009 8:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Its a debate
The railyard will have housing and retail as well.
Its also an easy sell for the downtown businesses/people to go straight to games after work during the week.
Plus, they really are breaking ground in the next few months – which is a plus.
I see both as being pretty good sites, with the railyard being a little better because I think there’s already some money lined up to start building.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 22, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
The case for Cal-Expo being better due to retail opportunities
Strikes me as shaky at best. Where is the demand going to come from? In the current (and foreseeable) economic climate, retail may be a zero sum game in Sacramento. In other words, any new retail at Cal-Expo will just decrease retail demand elsewhere in the City, thereby bringing no net additional revenue. While that might benefit the Cal-Expo developers in the short run, it’s hard to see where that would provide a net benefit for the City. Couple that with the overdeveloped state of the commercial real estate market (as noted by Mustang below), and I don’t see where Cal-Expo provides any net benefit at all, at least not on the basis of retail opportunities.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 22, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Why were the Maloofs not behind the orignal railyard project?
I seem to recall something about them receiving less income due to a decrease on parking revenue. Was there anything else?
Well
That was the major issue between the city and the Maloofs. But the voters weren’t going to pass it anyways.
Cal Expo is a non-starter
KJ is just saying what’s been obvious from the beginning, but no one wants to admit. The Cal Expo plan is a non-starter for at least the next two years. There is essentially no chance that any developer can or would make a billion dollar investment in Sacramento any time in the near future. It’s just not going to happen. The smart thing to do is to (quietly) look for alternatives now, rather than wait for the inevitable failure of that project.
by Carl on Sep 22, 2009 5:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yes
The next big wave of foreclosures are projected to be commercial properties. The capital to invest in commercial development really is limited. I thought I heard that the rail yard developer stated they would consider adding an arena…
Why not pursue that as it is such a better option?
I agree with Carl and Mustang,
But I will temper that with “It only takes one.” That is, real estate is incredibly affordable right now, and contractors and builders are willing to work for pretty cheap these days. If there were ever a time to “buy low,” this is the time. I’m not optimistic, but I’m holding out a shred of hope.
It only takes one.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Will design for food...
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Sep 22, 2009 8:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If you can find someone willing to lend,
Money is cheap to borrow right now. That is another potential plus for developers. Yes, commercial property is usually the second wave of forclosures, and the value of commercial property will probably be down for 3 to 5 years. However, if someone were to take on the project now, they would probably be finishing up in about 3 years. That would be perfect timing in that they could take advantage of lower costs now, and have their commercial property available when the market turns around.
MMBS is right about one thing
The next big wave of foreclosures are projected to be commercial properties.
I’m in the business and many are saying the same thing.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 22, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention that the residential real estate maket is a long, LONG way from recovering
A large percentage of adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs) are due to reset over the next couple of years—-from sub-prime to Alt-A to prime—-which will further exacerbate the residential real estate situation. And right now in Sacramento, the number of houses in some stage of foreclosure outnumber houses for sale by a factor of seven. This is called the “shadow inventory.” Banks are sitting on a huge volume of foreclosed properties and basically relying on the TARP and Fed guarantees to backstop future losses rather than flood the market with foreclosed properties, which would implode the residential real estate market.
The good news (if you can call it that) is that other cities are largely in the same boat, or worse off (e.g., Las Vegas, Anaheim, San Jose). Frankly I have a hard time imagining enough money coming available to support either arena proposal. But again, I fall back on the fact that other cities are struggling too, and may not be in a position to support a new team coming to town. The Kings may end up staying at Arco for a while longer.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 22, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The situation has actually improved in Sac
75% of all listings were foreclosures last year, as of today only 25% or so are. My neighborhood value is actually rising again as has the median sale price (by 5%) in Sac overall this last quarter.
Now, MLS is absolutely correct that here is another wave of ARM resets due mid next year and the overall market must be better by then for another slump not to occur. If it doesn’t improve some, its not only those folks but also a wave of short sales as upside down owners who have been holding out so far decide its time to bite the bullet and buy the house across the street for substantially less.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 23, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
The percentage of foreclosures on the market may be down
But that’s because the banks are sitting on large numbers of foreclosed properties and not putting them on the market. They’re hoping for a big enough recovery to be able to recoup most or all of the nominal value of those properties, which I believe is wishful thinking since those prices were badly inflated to begin with. Meanwhile the banks are relying on the TARP and the Fed guarantees to backstop their losses.
As of this moment, there are 2,941 homes listed for sale in Sacramento, as compared to 13,744 homes in some stage of foreclosure, not including the coming resets. That’s a ratio of almost 5-to-1 (sorry, my 7-to-1 estimate above applies to Stockton, not Sacramento). Anyway, that is still a huge backlog of foreclosed properties, with more coming. So I see the current “turnaround” in the housing market primarily as a product of manipulation by the Fed rather than a genuine recovery.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 23, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Other costs as well
Other cities may have stadiums that are nicer, but the Kings have other costs to consider in moving. They would have to pay other teams to infringe on their market share and pay for the move. These are pretty high if I remember right. Can’t quite find that stats and where I read them…
They would have to look at just how many teams can another area support in moving to a more populated area like the Bay or San Diego and if corporate profits can ever make up for what they may lose in ticket sales when competing against surrounding teams in larger markets.
Sacramento used to be one of the top earning teams. That can happen again, but they have to put a competitive team on the floor. I think it would be stupid for them to move, but I know if Vegas was an option they would be gone regardless.
I totally agree
The opportunity cost of leaving is too great. They would have more expenses than here, need to get a new fan base which would include advertising costs, and there is no guarentee that they would make the same amount of revenue anywhere else.
In a good economy, we might have a problem, but not now. The opportunity cost of leaving a relatively cheap arena with a faithful fanbase is too high. Plus they no where they stand in Sacramento. No professional sports team is going to move to unceartain waters in an unceartain time.
I tend to agree with that
Everything I’ve read suggests that Kansas City is a lukewarm market at best (think nearby Memphis), while the southern California cities are as bad or worse off fiscally than Sacramento and already have two franchises to boot. San Jose I’m less sure about, but there is already one Bay Area team, and San Jose is not exactly unaffected by the current economic climate either.
Maybe the Maloofs should sell the team to some local super-rich bastard who has a personal interest in keeping the team here. I have no idea who that might be or whether any such person or persons actually exist.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 23, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Angelo Tsakopoulos would be interested
He’d probably call the Arena the Parthenon or something. Plus I think I’m related to him somehow.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Sorry, I didn't mean to insult your uncle
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 23, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Isn't the Parthenon in Rome and the Pantheon in Greece?
Or is there a Parthenon in Greece too?
Whatever, if he builds it he can call it the Great Wall of China for all I care.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 23, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Other way around
Parthenon – Greece.
Pantheon – Rome.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Sep 23, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I stand corrected
That’s what I get for being too lazy to open a new browser to google it.
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Sep 23, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
lietothegirls, When that happens
Do you see credit markets getting tighter and the Fed creating more money to spur lending which will only cause inflation – maybe stagflation, because of the continued unemployment increase into the forceable future?
If that’s the case, I dont see anything happening here or anywhere for that matter; which will keep them here for atleast 3-5 years, regardless of a new arena.
Did anyone listen to Napear today?
He kept going on and on about how Sacramento needs an “Entertainment Area” for concerts and NCAA tournament games and so on.
I still believe in Ryan Garko...........
One thousand percent right.
See my post above.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Sep 22, 2009 8:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hahaha yes
One caller started talking about the railyards and Grant kept repeating his name and talking over him and then cut him off and blasted him without giving the guy a chance to respond. I think I need to make a Napear music video with quotes from his show.
I believe it went something like this : “Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, listen to me, Eric, … Eric, Eric, alright I’ve had enough, he’s gone, he’s wrong. Eric you’re dead wrong. There’s no way the railroads would work out, Eric is an idiot.”
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I believe it went something like this : "Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, listen to me, Eric, … Eric, Eric, alright I’ve had enough, he’s gone, he’s wrong. Eric you’re dead wrong. There’s no way the railroads would work out, Eric is an idiot."
That “conversation” is Peaches entire show, repeated over and over, dozens of times per day and hundreds of times per year.
Which is exactly why I never listen to it
Talk about shrill tedium. Damn!
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 22, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I can only listen to Napear for about five minutes then I have to turn off that show.
I still believe in Ryan Garko...........
I have that problem with Koz
Damn right winged midget
by ElRonToro on Sep 23, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seconded and Rec'd
I cannot stand that Rush Limbaugh wannabe. The only difference is that Rush is WYSIWYG, whereas Koz is a saccharin phony.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 23, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
props to KJ
He needs to reach out to the Maloofs to see how much in private funds they can corral to build an arena. If the money’s not there, then it’s time for Sac to have frank discussions about the team leaving and the city getting back it’s $70 million. I wrote about this here:
by SacForTourists on Sep 22, 2009 11:24 PM PDT reply actions
Needs to do something...
Anything really, not just point out how bad the situation is and sound the alarm. People who care already know and, this person, would like to hear more about what he plans to do.
What is his backup plan should the Expo development not work out. Railyard? He plan to get his development friends who sponsored his campaign to kick in the $$. Not sure they are big time enough, but anything that works has my support.
I think the real hold up may be that the Maloofs won’t want to give up revenue to work out a new venue. While Arco Arena is not the greatest they still make a lot more money than they would if they have to share part of the parking or other profits to pay for a new arena.
So, SacForTourists - do you actually have an idea?
Do you actually care at all one way or another? Looking over your blog it doesn’t appear so.
Why are you here?
Do you think anyone on this site actually cares about your ‘uhhhhh, better talk to the maloofs(?) maybe . . . uhhh’
Yes, brilliant well thought out ‘blog’ there. (sarcasm intended)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 23, 2009 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If we can't get the government pay for an arena,
What if King’s fans were to create a company to pay for the arena. We could sell 500,000 shares for $2k each to raise $1B dollars. We could hire a constructure management company to manage the project, so we would not have to be experts in development.
It would kind of be like taxing ourselves, except we would all own an asset at the end of the project.
I move that you NOT be our accountant
only because 500,000 x $2 = 1 million dollars not 1 Billion dollars. Maybe change your name to Mr. Evil? :p
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Sep 23, 2009 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I second that motion!
…I was thinking $2000…really!!
Dr. Evil. Damn it
I rescind my application for Secretary.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Sep 23, 2009 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Mr. Evil is correct
I haven’t spent enough years in evil school to earn my PhD.
Why don't we
just buy the whole damn show. The team and all rights. Kind of like the times when the Unions get fed up with the management of the companies they work for and get together to buy them out.
I don’t know it is feasible, not an accountant, but if the fans formed a cooperative and bought the team then the interests of earning profit could be better balanced with winning games. Seems to me that these two goals don’t always, presently, coincide well enough.
That would never work
Ever.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Sports franchises probably wouldn't fare well as cooperatives
Decisions would never get made. Autocracy seems to be the most effective power arrangement in that sphere.
From the people who brought you Reggie Musselnatt.
by My Losing Season on Sep 23, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention getting regular people to pool enough money
voluntarily for something they don’t really need to live. In this economy.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
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