Francisco Garcia, the Poor Man's Shane Battier
With so many Francisco Garcia mentions in the past few days, I thought I'd contribute some FG analysis…
A thought occurred to me some time during the previous season when I picked up 'Cisco off the waiver wires for my fantasy team. He's a good source of three's, steals, and blocks (for a guard). Also a relative turnover machine (but we'll get to that in a bit). Hmmm. The year before that, I had Shane Battier who was also good for three's, steals, and the occasional block. Sweet. I had just picked up the new Shane Battier. That got me thinking—is 'Cisco really a poor man's Shane Battier?
Some quick stats:
Garcia's averages, per 36 minutes and his PER in his first four years in the NBA
|
Season |
Age |
FG% |
3P% |
FT% |
ORB |
DRB |
TRB |
AST |
STL |
BLK |
TO |
PF |
PTS |
PER |
|
2005-06 |
24 |
.400 |
.285 |
.772 |
1.1 |
4.0 |
5.1 |
2.6 |
1.1 |
1.3 |
2.1 |
3.7 |
10.4 |
10.3 |
|
2006-07 |
25 |
.429 |
.356 |
.833 |
1.4 |
3.9 |
5.2 |
2.2 |
1.1 |
1.1 |
1.8 |
4.9 |
12.1 |
11.7 |
|
2007-08 |
26 |
.462 |
.391 |
.779 |
0.9 |
3.6 |
4.5 |
2.2 |
1.6 |
0.9 |
2.2 |
4.0 |
16.7 |
15.1 |
|
2008-09 |
27 |
.444 |
.398 |
.820 |
1.0 |
3.0 |
4.0 |
2.7 |
1.5 |
1.2 |
2.0 |
3.6 |
15.0 |
14.1 |
|
Career |
|
.441 |
.368 |
.800 |
1.1 |
3.6 |
4.6 |
2.4 |
1.4 |
1.1 |
2.0 |
4.0 |
14.0 |
13.2 |
Battier's averages, per 36 minutes and his PER in his first four years in the NBA
|
Season |
Age |
FG% |
3P% |
FT% |
ORB |
DRB |
TRB |
AST |
STL |
BLK |
TO |
PF |
PTS |
PER |
|
2001-02 |
23 |
.429 |
.373 |
.700 |
2.1 |
2.8 |
4.9 |
2.5 |
1.4 |
0.9 |
1.8 |
2.5 |
13.1 |
13.9 |
|
2002-03 |
24 |
.483 |
.398 |
.828 |
1.9 |
3.3 |
5.2 |
1.6 |
1.5 |
1.3 |
1.0 |
3.1 |
11.4 |
15.0 |
|
2003-04 |
25 |
.446 |
.349 |
.732 |
1.9 |
3.7 |
5.6 |
1.9 |
1.9 |
1.1 |
1.0 |
3.5 |
12.4 |
15.3 |
|
2004-05 |
26 |
.442 |
.395 |
.789 |
2.3 |
3.6 |
5.9 |
1.8 |
1.3 |
1.1 |
1.1 |
2.9 |
11.3 |
14.8 |
|
Career |
|
.447 |
.388 |
.751 |
1.7 |
3.4 |
5.1 |
2.0 |
1.2 |
1.1 |
1.1 |
2.7 |
10.7 |
13.5 |
If we throw out both of their rookie years (adjusting to the NBA), many of their stats are similar. Garcia has a slight advantage dishing the ball, and consequently, turning over said ball. Battier is a slightly better rebounder, owing most of the statistical advantage to offensive rebounds. Both block and steal the ball at roughly the same rate. You'll notice that El Flaco gets 1.5 more fouls than Battier, over their 36-minutes-per-game adjusted averages. Garcia also scores slightly more, due to the fact that he takes and makes almost one more free-throw per game as opposed to Battier (I hope you'll excuse me for leaving out the FT attempts/makes stats but take my word for it).
Keeping in mind, these are extrapolated for 36 minutes (fourth time I mentioned this?), I'd say that statistically, Garcia is very similar to Battier. Things may be different if Garcia was actually made to play as many minutes as Battier (Shane played almost twice as many as 'Cisco in their first four years) but I don't expect anything other than three-point percentages, turnovers, and fouls to differ.
I don't know if you remember that Shane Battier was taken with the #6 pick by Memphis in 2001 and that Francisco Garcia was taken by our Kings at #23 in 2005. Considering that Battier's contract was about $7.1 million for the first four years versus Garcia's pay of about $4.7 million for the first four years, I feel Garcia was a relatively good pick (we'll leave David Lee [#30], Brandon Bass[#33], and Monta Ellis [#40] out of this).
Yes, I know we now have Garcia for 4 years and $23 million with a $7 million player option but I still feel he's worth the money.
[One last similarity-both Garcia and Battier led their respective college teams (Louisville and Duke) each year they were there. Battier got his title in 2001, but sadly, El Flaco only made it to the Final Four in 2005 before losing.]
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
23 comments
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Comments
The problem with Battier is you can not evaluate his worth by looking at individual stats. Much of what he brings to the table is exceptional defense, both individual and team oriented. Offensively speaking, a comparison might be able to be made. Defensively, however, Battier is superior despite having similar block and steal stats.
Disclaimer: comments may have been made under the influence of alcohol. If the Kings start winning, this will probably change.
by Ball in Cup on Sep 4, 2009 6:30 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
You saved me from having to post, good point
nice post clic. If Cisco had Battier’s basketball IQ and mental discipline it would be a fair point to make.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I'd love for Garcia to be a poor man's Battier
A spot up shooter/ shut down defender would fir great with Evans/Martin.
But I don’t think they’re very similar players. Garcia likes to have the ball, and his defense is more energy and risks, while Battier waits on the side on offense, and plays smart D while avoiding fouls.
by DesertFox on Sep 4, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice breakdown
but the problem with a statistical comparison is the fact that Battier’s new nickname is the No Stats All Star. His stats don’t really show what he does really well. Defense is not measured very well by statistics. I think Garcia could be a Battier-type player, but I don’t really think he’s there. I’d love to see him become more focused on defense though
www.mancancook.net
Agreed with Vfettke
The problem with Battier is he takes the time to study how his opponents play, look at their tendencies. Defense is an art for him. And on offense, he hardly ever looks for his shot unless its the most efficient thing to do (like a corner three or a wide open layup), which is sort of the opposite of El Flaco, who shoots an abmormal amount of the most inefficient shots in the league (toe on the line threes).
Garcia is probably the best defender on the Kings right now, and he’s had several good crunch time defensive plays over the years, but I don’t think he’ll ever be All-NBA defensive team material. But he’s more than competent, and in a good system could thrive.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
And nice first post Clicc
It’s an oddity when a new guy comes on and actually presents a thought in a well-constructed manner.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Keep in mind he is comparing their 1st four seasons, not Shane today vs. Cisco today.
Give FG a few more years under his belt and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him much closer to a Battier type player. Then again I wouldn’t count on it either.
Do you smoke grass in space Bowie? Or do you smoke astro turf?
Not to tread old ground here but
(well OK lets do)
Aren’t some of you who are trumpeting that Battier is more valuable than his stats because of defensive prowness (artist?) also some who hated the idea of drafting a defensive specialist in Thabeet?
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Sep 10, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
TROLBEEEEEEEEEET!
When you draft out of the lottery, a specialist is a good haul. When you draft top 5, you’re looking for a complete player.
Victory is tasty.
I didn't want to draft Thabeet
because I have a feeling he’s going to get destroyed in the NBA by any big thats aggressive. He’ll be good at defending the rim from guards attacking the lane, but if I were the other team, I’d just feed it inside to my strongest player and just plow through him.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Note to self:
Never draft an unproven player.
Drafting an unproven player is fine
Attempting to draw a comparison to Shane Battier and link that to why some folks around here did not want to spend the pick on Hasheem Thabeet…
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Let me finish that
Attempting to draw a comparison to Shane Battier and link that to why some folks around here did not want to spend the pick on Hasheem Thabeet…
it’s just ridiculous
The future begins now...
Rec'd
I agree with the counter-arguments made by vfettke and Ball in Cup, but I like the analysis and the idea.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Two-year adjusted +/-
Shane Battier: +4.24
Francisco Garcia: -4.49
"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.
I'd like to see that
compared to their teams +/- when they are off the court.
that’s the thing… it’s adjusted +/-. Travis Outlaw has a negative adj. +/-, yet Portland had a positive margin of victory.
Almost every one of Cleveland’s players was mediocre to bad, with LeBron having an incredible adj. +/-.
It tries to adjust for team and opponent.
"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.
Personally
I think Cisco is more easily compared to Raja Bell, but that could just be island favoritism.
Victory is tasty.
Bell's a thug.
Cisco doesn’t really have a comparison with him.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

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