Is Hilton Armstrong What the Kings Need?
by Tom Ziller on Jan 11, 2010 11:09 AM PST
in Commentary
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PrintThe Kings have reportedly acquired center Hilton Armstrong from New Orleans for a conditional second round pick. Since apparently no other assets besides cash (to cover Armstrong's contract, I imagine) will change hands, this deal is actually for Hilton Armstrong. In the weekend's rumors, I posed that in order for New Orleans to get closer to to the luxury tax threshold, the Kings could potentially take Armstrong with the Hornets' first-round 2010 pick coming to Sacramento as an incentive. Apparently, the Kings believed Armstrong to be asset enough.
Is he?
We'll see -- the 25-year-old has played only scattered minutes in his 3-1/2 NBA seasons. A 2006 lottery pick, Armstrong had trouble cracking Byron Scott's regular rotation, despite the lack of any other notable bench big men over that entire span. Ryan Bowen, Melvin Ely, Marc Jackson ... just some of the stars who received consideration ahead of Armstrong at various points.
Of course, Scott failed to play fun-lovin' rookies Marcus Thornton and Darren Collison this season, so perhaps the lack of playing time is more circumstance of the head coach's personality than talent indication. We do have data on Armstrong's applied talent, though, and it's not particularly pretty. Last season, Armstrong's most active in terms of minutes played, the center had a defensive rebound rate of 12.6 percent, the second lowest figure among all 6'11 or taller players who logged at least 1,000 minutes. (Small forward Jared Jeffries was quite worse.) Among the same 44-player population, Armstrong ranked third worst in total rebound rate (10.8 percent, ahead of Jeffries and Andrea Bargnani) and 28th (again, of 44) in offensive rebound rate (9 percent). Offensive rebounding was the only rebounding category in which Armstrong beat resident rebounding disappointment Spencer Hawes, and only then slightly.
This year has been better for Armstrong on the boards: he's at a middle-of-the-pack 14.6 percent total, middle-of-the-pack 21.6 percent on defense, and middle-of-the-pack 8 percent on offense. The question is whether you trust this season's 239 minutes, or the 2,300 prior NBA minutes. (It's a legit question -- players improve, and the coaching staff has changed.)
As far as his apparent reputation as a defensive presence: see the mediocre defensive rebounding history, but acknowledge that his block numbers are fairly decent. He ranked 29th in the league in block rate last season (all players with at least 1,000 minutes). If he gets to his (until this season) consistent career average block rate (3.4 percent), he'd easily lead the Kings. Donte Greene is currently tops at 2.9 percent; Hawes is the top regular big man at 2.3 percent. For what it's worth, as underwhelming as Armstrong's defensive rebounding numbers have been, he'd rank No. 1 in that category for the Kings this season. His career average would place him between Omri Casspi and Ime Udoka, though. (Again, do you believe 239 minutes this year? Or the previous 2,300 minutes?)
According to 82games.com, the Hornets defense has been 3.8 points per 48 minutes better with Armstrong on the floor this season. (The offense has been more than 8 points per 48 minutes worse.) Last season, the defense was 1.5 points per 48 minutes better with Armstrong. (The offense was nearly nine points worse.) In 2007-08, the Hornets defense was 1.4 points per 48 minutes worse with Armstrong playing. And the offense was more than eight points worse, too.
HoopsNumbers.com put out regularized adjusted plus-minus numbers this summer which said that last season Armstrong made a positive 1.5-point impact on defensive efficiency while on the court. Given the standard error, Armstrong is somewhere between defensive-neutral or a fair positive on defense, based on those numbers.
So, to answer our question as to whether Hilton Armstrong is what the Kings need, my preliminary answer would be "probably not." He has proven to be a mediocre rebounder at best, a decent shotblocker but overall a player with only minor positive impacts on defense. (Of course, that's a minor positive defensive impact relative to league average. The Kings defense is far below league average, especially in the paint. So the relative to that, Armstrong could look like the New York version of Mt. Mutombo. It would be a mirage, but them's the circumstances.)
If Armstrong works out, the Kings have a couple options: pick up his $3.8 million qualifying offer while his agent looks for more lucrative offer sheets, reach an extension deal before freeing him into the restricted free agency wild, or decline to sign the Q.O. and hope he flails in free agency so that you can sign him more cheaply. If he doesn't work out, you have to imagine the team will decline the Q.O. and renounce his rights.
The cost here, really, is a decent little trade chip called "Sacramento's in-year cap space." Oklahoma City used its cap space to get Eric Maynor in his first season on a four-year rookie deal. Sacramento used its cap space to get ... a three-month Hilton Armstrong audition. A first or early second round pick would certainly seem to be more valuable than the Armstrong audition. Flexibility in the trade market would certainly seem to be more valuable, as well. With a full month left until the trade deadline, one can only imagine the Kings actually see something they like in Armstrong and have decided risking losing the free audition isn't worth sitting on the valuable cap space another five weeks. Or perhaps the front office is that frustrated with the frontcourt's defense that inserting Armstrong looks like a quick fix. We'll see.
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All I can say is
I hope we got a boat load of money. I don’t see this guy getting any real burn at all.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
I don't want this guy getting any real burn
Because that will probably mean one of our bigs is hurt.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Exactly
In which case, we did this why . . . ?
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Read my reasoning below
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
JT is in constant foul trouble, and Hawes disappears altogether some nights
Having a backup who is also a backstop seems like a reasonable thing to do, especially for free, and especially since it’s only for as long as we want to have him.
We literally have no other people at the 4 & 5 with any size. Donte is too light and Brockman is too short. That’s no knock on the effort or the results, I simply see no real downside to having a big fella who can come in, clog the lane, and break wrists. He’s not the answer, but the bench is deeper in a good way with him a part of it.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
+1, sims.
He’s not the answer, but the bench is deeper in a good way with him a part of it.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Not sure I buy that
Is the bencher deeper with May? Yes. Is it better? Not if he doesn’t play, or if he hurts the team when he does.
But I’m open-minded enough to wait and see.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
Armstrong is way better than May, though.
I have seen him play very well in stretches. In fact, last time I saw the Kings play the Hornets I thought about how nice it would be to see him in a Kings uni.
Blocked shots aren’t something Kings fans are typically used to valuing though.
Peja-vu!
He's not a great career blocker.
He’s tall. He’s athletic. Those don’t necessarily translate to blocked shots.
His career high in blocks came against Sacramento on 10/30/09.
Two.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 11, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
My bad.
His season high is 2. His career high is 4.
Cisco’s career high is 5. Donté’s is 6.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 11, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
That's pretty much all I was saying
We added an athletic, tall defender. We have no one like that on the team, so it’s another card for PW to play.
Sean May could yet redeem himself, you just never know.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
Its also really nice from a team philosophy standpoint, too.
I love the fact that this roster keeps getting more physical. Its really a nice trend.
Peja-vu!
He could also be included in another trade before the deadline
as he will have been a King 30 days. Essentially another expiring, but someone who could provide cover for the other teams (fans) as an incoming asset.
Not saying that happens but -
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
I like your optimism
When the best thing you can say about an aquisition is that we might still trade him away . . .
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
No, I think he has a chance of helping
and we still have KTEC and other options for the deadline.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Though if PWs staff has a weakness
It seems to be with utilizing / developing big men.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
bigmen take longer to develop
I don’t think you can see the growth right away in bigmen. I am curious to which players you are specifically talking about the staff not utilizing. To me, it seems like almost everyone on the team plays, other then Sean May.
It may be unfair to the staff (or maybe not)
but Hawes and JT have been the most up and down this season, thats what I was referring to. Don’t know why I threw the utilizing in.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
ok, thats fair
Hawes and JT have been up and down alot this season. Does anyone remember a game where both of them played well? I wonder if this is just a coincidence or maybe they need more time to get used to each others game.
Cavs Game
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200912230SAC.html
I don’t remember any others, and I’m too lazy to check. It doesn’t seem to happen often, though.
"El once, chico. Eleven."
Too many options...
I think Hawes and Thompson are getting lost in the barrage of offensive weapons. Both players can’t have the ball in their hands and Thompson is the one who is more prone to go and get his own shots so he is putting up better numbers. I like Hawes as the first big off the bench with Brockman starting alongside Thompson. I think Thomson will score more as a focal point of the post offense with Brockman setting picks and rebounding. When Hawes comes in, he will take over some of Thompsons duties while JT moves to take Brockmans role as banger. Brockman and Armstrong will be interchangeable pieces, both able to play with reckless abandon because the Kings will have plenty of big depth.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
lttg, isn't a trade/claim 60 days, meaning you can;t bundle Hilton with another King?
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
Not my dept.
I thought it was 30 days but I tried to look it up and couldn’t find any limitation on retrading him up until the deadline. But there are those here who have tis stuff memorized better than me.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Two months, to trade in combination with other players
Can trade him by himself at any time.
per Salary Cap FAQ
30 days is for trading your signed draft picks(what we had to wait for to complete the Donté Greene deal).
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
According to Larry Coon....
The Kings fall into a loop hole in the 60 day rule..by my reading.
(a player cannot be traded…)For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap.
The Kings are under the cap even after this deal so I am going to assume that this highlighted provision pertains to the them.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
by jjham15 on Jan 11, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
sounds like they can trade him any time they want and in combination if they want to.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
excellent!
Thanks for catching that
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Developing... maybe.
Utilizing… Kenny Thomas and John Brockman.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Come on now
It’s been 1/3 of a season. I am not sure how much you can criticize the staff’s ability to develop big men for the fact that a 21 and a 23 year old have been good but inconsistent. Let’s at least hold off until the start of year two before we judge their ability to develop talent.
I would agree that the timing of this pickup is interesting
Maybe the Kings use Armstrong for 30 days to evaluate his worth. He can then be used as trade bait for something/someone else? Either that or management REALLY likes him.
Will we have him by tomorrow to dominate Superman?
by cabz on Jan 11, 2010 11:27 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
mabye they got armstrong just to play tommorow
then they can waive what is left of him afterwards.
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
Get all his money back through Medical Retirement
Brilliant.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Does this plug our holes?
It seems like it must or else this is just shuffling players around in preparation for the deadline. That fact, as TZ points out, that this appears to be a trade for this players suggests it is to plug some holes in our line-up.
We get hurt by quick athletic bigs that are 6’11" or higher and have not seemed to have a player who could deal defensively as Brockman gets shot over and is just not tall enough.
Seems this is to fill those hole and that it also means they may see Spencer as able to deal with the bigger guys defensively… He has developed and perhaps that is going to be enough.
Seems that this provides C depth of the athletic and defensive kind and we have needed that. I hope it works.
Also
We are going trade away K9 and that leaves an even bigger hole in our defensive C lineup… Maybe this means they won’t be trading KTEC for a C and may mean they have more already lined up. Probably hear more soon…
Exactly what I'm thinking
K-9 is going to be traded for someone thats not a big.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Or another of our bigs is getting traded
FOR BOSH!
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Now we have a young big to give back to them! :)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
maybe, maybe not
Is he the answer, probably not. Can he help, maybe. He may help us out with some shot blocking and may be a trade chip come the deadline.
As much as I have lobbied for some inside defensive help, I try to remember that we have gone toe to toe with Cleveland and the southern Jerkwads with no Martin and no Garcia. Evans even missed the one Jerkwad game. All this with our somewhat suspect inside game and a bunch of rookies and sophmores. Pretty f….n good.
We still help on the inside, I am trusting GP.
Sean May will soon be a member of Dickie V’s “all airport team”. Will look good in a suit getting off some plane, but that is about it.
by noreboundsnorings on Jan 11, 2010 11:32 AM PST reply actions
Sean Williams got released by the nexts today.
I would rather we took a minimum flyer on him. Unless we get NO’s first rounder. Not much profit out of this trade.
Yeah but you can't trade a guy after you sign him for three months.
That wouldn’t leave flexibility at the deadline.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
10 day contract for the minimum is all Williams will cost.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Not to mention.
The Armstrong salary will probably be paid by New Orleans.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I thought it was 30 days for a trade
3 months for a FA signing (?)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
answer is above
Because the Kings are under the salary cap Armstrong can be immediately traded again by Sacramento
by Travis Mays Hayes on Jan 11, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Williams is a nut case.
There are certain people in this world who just don’t get it- see Artest, Ron or Henry, Chris. Williams falls into this category. His shot blocking ability is intriguing but the fact that an NBDL team told the Nets he was no longer welcome speaks loudly to his character.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Yeah.
I would pick him up on my NBA2k10 team, but the Nets are a team dying for an athletic PF to pair with Brook, and they just gave up on him. Unless the Kings have alot of self-confidence in their motivational skills…
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
No psycholgist on staff that I'm aware of
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
I hope it works out..
Cause if they screw this up they will also need a proctologist to remove their head.
Too much of a locker room cancer
for my NBA2k10 team. Don’t want to risk the chemistry we already have in place.
by Travis Mays Hayes on Jan 11, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
I trade so many times in a season
my chemistry is garbage anyway…
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
I hope the condional part of the second round pick is that they don't actually get it...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
by TrojanCBB on Jan 11, 2010 11:53 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think that's pretty much how these things work out
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 11, 2010 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
i dont know... the otis thorpe trade was conditional... pistons got that
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
My thoughts
When the rumors first came out, I thought the only reason the Kings are doing this was to get a cheap big man for the rest of the year. Obviously I was hoping for Fesenko, but instead we got Armstrong. Armstrong would have been at the bottom of my list.
He’s not a good defensive rebounder, he’s slightly better than average at defense, and he has no offense whatsoever. The one good thing he has over guys like Fesenko is he’s pretty athletic and fast for a big guy, which suits our pace. Still, this trade reminds me of acquiring Desmond Mason. The guy will help our defense a little, but kill our offense a lot. I hope I’m wrong, but there’s that. At least the guy was essentially free.
Another reason why I think the Kings might have traded for him, is that they’re expecting another trade that would get rid of Kenny Thomas and hurt our Big Man depth even more. As in we trade Kenny and don’t get a big man in return. My thinking is that its a possible Kirilenko trade. K-9 and Noc for Kirilenko. Otherwise I don’t see much sense in this trade, because I’d rather have K-9 play over Hilton Armstrong.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Aykis13 Rulez!
With the realization that we could flip Armstrong with Sergio and K9 as $14m of expirings and keep the cash from NO I am less upset by this trade.
by mayfieldcol on Jan 11, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
But you didn't need Armstrong to do that
cap space is for most purposes equal to expiring and cheaper. In other words we could just have eaten part of a salary. We didn’t need an extra player to make any deal. This makes it harder, not easier to trade, because the other team has to pay a salary.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
It is cheaper.
But you can’t trade 125% of your cap space.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
So you really think that extra
25% of cap space is what makes the deal? Only if we were going to go over the salary cap including Noc and K-9s salary. I don’t see that happening.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
If the salary is paid by N.O.
That extra space is free.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
It already was
Here’s the thing
Let’s say we have 16mil between K9 and Noc or 8.5 with K-9. If we have say, $4m available in cap space, we ‘d have to trade 12.5 with K-9 alone to need the extra 25% and even then we’d be asking the other team to pay an extra $2m for a player they probably don’t want. I see LTTG’s reasoning that it “looks” like an asset. But do we really think a GM wants to pay $2m plus because it “looks” like they are getting something? I think this is all about money. We made a little extra for taking a player off their hands, and they saved some.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
We pay the salary.
Just like N.O. is doing for us.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
The ubiquitous "cash considerations"...
That guy seems to get traded around a lot.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
But again
Why? You pay me for the guy. I pay them for the guy. Or we could just have no except N.O. pay for the guy. Unless you are actually playing him, free doesn’t mean anything.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
For 25% more dough we can take on over the cap.
That would require a big deal though.
Basically we get a scrub big man for free, and the longshot of making a big deal down the road.
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I'd have to see the deal
I don’t see anyone on the market who is making that kind of money that we would want.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
If you're trading away a Bosh for example
You need to be able to pretend you’re getting something back.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
Start adding up multiple contracts
And multiple teams and you might see some possibilites.
Still a longshot by any means
by unfair weather on Jan 11, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Nope
Cap space is as good as an expring contract unless you need the extra 25%, which I can see us needing or taking. I’ll shut up now. The horse isn’t even quivering any longer.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah SB
I think its clear you and I aren’t really for this trade. I guess we’ll just have to shut up and see what happens because of it. Either he plays good or he doesn’t. Either another trade happens to make more sense of this or it doesn’t. Either the Kings got quite a bit of money for him or they didn’t. Whatever.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
by Aykis16 on Jan 11, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Rec’d for total lack of commitment! :)
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
Its also potential cover for the trading team
“See! We ARE getting assets back!”
Though I’m still skeptical we’ll get a big deal done.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Who's Aykis13?
I don't see what's wrong with giving Bobby a little experience before he starts to practise law.
"so perhaps the lack of playing time is more circumstance of the head coach's personality than talent indication."
Sorry Kings fans… but no, not in this case.
In fact, Byron Scott gave Hilton ample opportunities in comparison to the table scraps of PT he usually doles out to young guys.
I’m a Hornets fan and I’ve always thought Hilton seemed like a nice, down to earth personality… but honestly he probably doesn’t belong in the NBA.
He simply can’t rebound… which makes him a liability as a center. He has really bad hands and can’t catch well so you get a lot of turnovers with Hilton. He has problems with offensive fouls… and fouling on defense. While occasionally he does show flashes of a decent offensive game by hitting some face up jumpers… it’s nothing more than flashes and he has no post moves. He has occasionally played decent defense and he will give good effort: that’s about the most I can say on the positive end.
Could he still develop? Yeah I guess it’s in the realm of possibility, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Just thought you guys might want to hear thoughts from someone who has watched him play for a few years.
by Caleb462 on Jan 11, 2010 12:00 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I already knew he sucked
so I’m a little bummed. At least we didn’t lose anything in this trade.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I like it for the Hornets
Its a very minor deal obviously but it gets the team closer to being under the luxury tax without losing any talent, and that could be big down the road.
If I was a Kings fan I think I’d just see this as a “whatever” type trade….. does it help? Nope. Does it hurt? Not really.
I think the Kings should have gotten a pick out of this
We’re essentially saving the Hornets quite a bit of money. This trade is a win for the Hornets and a big meh for the Kings.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Here you go guys...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEtKjACpQEg&NR=1
Ah… highlight reels… the ultimate equalizer.
Man, the guy in those highlights is AWESOME!!
He actually looks like he has a pretty good handle for a center. Would you say that’s accurate or just the highlight talking?
The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"
Well I think most of us have only seen highlights of Rubio also.
The NBA: "Where 27 free throws happens"
Those were probably all the highlights you could grab from his career.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
yeah
but is that him on the mic in the middle? If so, JT has some serious competition!!
Hilton Armstrong aka “That Dude!!”
What are your thoughts on a possible trade for Okafor.
Would you guys take Kenny Thomas’s expiring as an even trade?
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
by nothingbutnet on Jan 11, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
I hate that idea
The Hornets plan right now seems to be shed as much salary as needed to get under tax but do it without compromising the talent level of the team… hard to do but they are almost there.
I see where you're coming from
And I agree. It helps the Hornets a lot, but does nothing for the Kings. I would think the Kings would want more real value for the service they are doing for the Hornets. The NBA isn’t about performing favors for other teams.
by nobodyinparticular on Jan 11, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
maybe they have pics of petrie partying on bourban street...GMs gone wild
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
GP wearing tassles on his man boobs?
Yuck!
I don't see what's wrong with giving Bobby a little experience before he starts to practise law.
So to sum it up...
bad hands, no post moves, foul prone, can’t score, poor rebounder….
but he does have a great personality! Now appearing from 7 to 8 PM at the Pizza Hut, the ever fun-loving Hilton Armstrong!
Yeah I know its silly, but I just pointed that out because...
I always feel kind of bad trashing players, even if its completely factual. I guess I’m too sympathetic or something
But a lot of times when fans criticize players they trash both the players ability and the player as a person, a line that usually shouldn’t be blurred.
Yeah, but was he coached as in developed
I mean we got young talent galore and great coaches. If they can teach JT how to post up and spin for a half hook maybe they teach this kid. Seems athletic enough and that is half of it right there. Look at Donte’.
funny
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
And its conditional
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
maybe the condition is we have to win 6 titles for them to get it...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
I'll take it.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
This isn't part of another trade
We could have traded Noc/K-9/wahtever and had room to take more back without aquiring Armstrong. We had capspace. And the other team would have preferred it because they wouldn’t have to pay Armstrong’s salary. We did not gain any trade leverage at all, unless you really think another team was really salivating over a player we got paid to take.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
Unless...
Noc/K9/whatever does not return a big man, in which case Armstrong will be a needed back-up big on the roster.
He doesn’t have to be moved to be a factor in another trade before the deadline.
Is he the guy you want coming off the bench?
If so, great deal. If not . . .
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
I don’t want him as the one coming off the bench. Whatever. We’ll just have to wait and see how he does. Maybe Westphal can make him succeed.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Is the lack of an extra big on the bench the reason you want K9 not to get traded?
If so, terrible deal. If not . . .
I will attempt to take a stab here regarding the Armstrong trade.
I see this move as an admission that at least for today, that the Kings do not believe that Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes are the match made in heaven front court that we/they initially believed them to be. This move allows Westphal to keep Spencer on the bench as the first option big while starting JT and Brockman together on a more permanent basis. Armstrong gives the Kings a larger, shot blocking version of what they think they have in Brockman- 6 fouls of mean. By adding another player like this, Westphal is free to give substantial minutes to two players (JT, Brock) who have a propensity to get into foul trouble, give the remainder minutes to Hawes but still have a player that can come in and give you solid banger minutes in Armstrong.
I also see a rotation that is about to have no problems scoring the ball. The Kings are going to have Martin, Evans, Beno, Casspi, Thompson, Hawes, Noc, Garcia and Greene that fill it up. Playing peeps like Eme (who is better offensively than advertised) Brockman and Armstrong as defensive/rebounding specialists that aren’t required to score makes a ton of sense to me.
I like the trade. I think Armstrong can bring what Kenny Thomas brings but at 5 inches taller and with more shot blocking potential. The Kings needs him to do three things- play defense, rebound and knock people down which Armstrong should be very willing to do since he is playing for his NBA future.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
by jjham15 on Jan 11, 2010 12:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Armstrong does not equal a bigger Brockman
Not even close.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
In small doses...
Brockman is an unbelievable rebounder and hustle player but his function is just that. Armstrong will be counted on for the same type of things and maybe a little shot blocking. Neither player is ever going to have a play set run for them or hopefully shoot outside of 3 feet but they are going to bring the lunch pale so to speak. I also like Armstrong as a fill in against bigger teams like Orlando and the Lakers.
Kenny Thomas has proven to be one of the worst offensive players in the NBA. I think Armstrong is right there with Kenny but he brings size and shot blocking for a third the price. Petrie will replace Armstrong in this years draft but until then, I’m kind of excited to have a guy to play along Hawes/Thompson off the bench who can help on the weak side.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Kenny is the best defensive rebounder on the Kings though
Next to Brockman. Armstrong will be among the worst of the bigs.
The good things he brings to the table are shotblocking, quickness and athleticism.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I guess my point is that Brockness
does one thing REALLY well. He rebounds. I don’t see Armstroing doing anything really well, and he does many tihngs poorly.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
To both Savage and Aykis...
Does Brockman break through on any other team? I think we should give Armstrong a chance to come in and show us what he has in his limited minutes. If there is anything I have learned about Westphal is that his players know exactly what their job is when they check into the game and if they don’t do that job they go and sit down. Armstrong might be able to fill a role the Kings really need which is size and shot blocking off the bench. I am willing to give Westphal a chance to implement Armstrong and his skill set into his system.
Also, Kenny Thomas may be a strong defensive rebounder but its hard to grab one when you’re sitting on the bench…something he has been doing a lot of lately. Thomas got his chance and lost out to a rookie second round pick. I want to see how Armstrong for myself. To see if he can hold position in the post and provide support for Thompson and Hawes as a shot blocker. I will reserve judgement until then. This move may be Sheldon Williams 2.010 but it may also be a small move that pays dividends.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Oh yeah...
go back and look at all the negative responses to the Eme Udoka signing and then tell me what you think of that deal now. Petrie and Westphal have a vision and I want to see that vision play out with a full, healthy roster. Within the next two weeks, the Kings will add another 20 plus scorer and a versatile wing. If PW and GP think that Armstrong can provide the defensive support that is lacking in the post then I am willing to give them some leeway.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
by jjham15 on Jan 11, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Like I said
We’ll see. I just think this is another Desmond Mason like acquirement. Udoka actually could provide some offense, and he won me as a fan fairly quickly. We’ll see what Armstrong does.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Indeed
Brockman broke through because he worked his butt off and did his job well. remember, neither of them were brought in with expectations of high playing time this year. I was one of the few fans of both Mason and May. I like the concept. But the truth was that they never played above their numbers in the past. I also think this will be a mason like pick. All I expect to get out of it is money.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
Here is a question for you guys.
Would you rather the Kings take a low risk flier on Armstrong or tie themselves to Dalmbert for 2/25mill or Okafor at 5/63 mill? I know there might be other options here but this is kind of what the whispers have said. I think I choose the fluidity of roster space and Armstrong and wait for the right player (which Armstrong still leaves the door open to).
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Hilton
no doubt IMM
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Okafor, Armstrong, Dalembert
But I think that Okafor’s contract is at least fair value when you consider his age and his productivity. But Armstrong is certainly risk free, while Okafor is loaded with risk.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Fair value 2 or 3 years ago.
NBA contracts are declining- David Lee couldn’t get 8 mill a year as a free agent. I see Okafor as a guy who got more out of Charlotte than he was worth because they can’t get FAs to come there and he was their own player. He’s more like a 5 yr 40 million player IMO.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Opinion repected
As I’ve noted elsewhere, Okafor is in pretty rare air when you look at 20-something centers averaging a career double double (him, Howard, Horford if you round up, Boozer if you include PF’s). And he and Howard are the only two that add upwards of two blocks a game.
I just think that he is better than some give him credit for. But I fully understand why (a lot of) people think that he is too expensive.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I would take him if Noc was included...
to offset a large portion of the contract but that is because the Kings have cheap fixes lined up at the small for the foreseeable future. I like Okafor and would love to pair him with Thompson, I just think his $$$ is a death warrant for a team with lots of players who are going to have to be paid eventually.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
I think a double-double is a little cherry-picked
I know the NBA recognizes double-doubles as a statistic in itself, but if you reduce the numbers required to meet your criteria to 9 RPG, the amount of players that qualify goes WAY up.
Like I’ve said before, he’s not an awful player by any stretch of the imagination; in fact, he’s a very solid player. I just don’t think he’s the type of player you give up the search for a long-term center for. If you get Okafor for the next five years you are either giving up on Hawes long-term or deciding not to spend a (potentially) high pick on a center. I couldn’t see the Kings drafting a center in the top ten if they already had both Okafor and Hawes on the roster long-term. But that’s just me.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 11, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
Set the bar wherever you like
The NBA doesn’t chart double-singles, or double-9 rebound games. But if charting it that way makes you feel better, go for it. Maybe it’ll catch on.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I'm not talking about charting anything
I’m saying that a player that averages 10/10 isn’t all that much more valuable than a player that averages 10/9. That’s all.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 11, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
And a player who averages
10/9 isn’t all that much better than a player who averages 9/9, who isn’t that much better than a player who averages 9/8 . . .
Keep reasoning long enough and you’ll decide Greg Oden and Shaq were the same player.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
Sorry, Ostertag
But Oden may work too.
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
You are apparently missing my point
A “double-double” is a fairly arbitrary figure the NBA starting keeping track of years ago. Guys that obtain this figure are seen as superior to players that do not, even if they are not superior players. Let me rephrase my previous statement and ask this: which player is better?
Player A: 18.8 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 3.2 APG, 0.5 SPG, 1.7 BPG, 52.1% FG, 74.1% FT
Player B: 13.7 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 0.9 APG, 0.7 SPG, 1.9 BPG, 50.7% FG, 59.5% FT
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 11, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
Player C
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Who is Eme?
Ime’s evil twin?
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
BTW, I completely agree with your take on the trade
JJ. I think it makes total sense, and has little to no downside. A no brainer really.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Next two weeks? W-w-w-what!
I say there is outside chance K-Mart plays tomorrow night! Yeah. I said it. Here’s how I figure: Doctor normal business hours are 9 to 5 PM. Tipoff is 7PM. K-Marts Tuesday plans: (1) Go to doctor. (2) Get clean bill of health. (3) Score 25 points.
(4) sprains ankle, out 3 more weeks
I wanted to adopt, but all the good looking babies were taken
by joeytothelimit on Jan 11, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
It doesn't matter much
If you’re just looking for someone to take Kenny Thomas’ rapidly declining minutes, just about anyone can fill the fill.
Thomas has played about 35 minutes in the last 10 games. I think we can handle 3-4 minutes of Hilton Armstrong instead.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
As has been said by others
We need another big on the bench for insurance if we trade K-9 for something other than a big man.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
I thought Armstrong would be more productive coming out of college
At this point, he would only be the second true center on our roster.
I think it may be as simple as this
We are all pretzelizing trying to figure out the whys, but this is simple and logical.
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
I just think it is silly to act so quickly on this...
why not hold out a little while longer and see if you can squeeze a draft pick or prospect out of them…
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
It's GP...
I’m sure if it could have been done, it would’ve.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Jan 11, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
The only thing about Armstrong
Is he sucks at rebounding and is alright on defense.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
unless you believe this year's evidence
over the previous, more significant numbers
Yeah I'm going to go with the Large Sample Size
over the small one.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I have to think Petrie is treating this like a do-over
He probably liked Armstrong coming out of college, but thinks the Hornets did a poor job developing him. He’s not going to look at his stats as much the upside he sees in Armstrong and is giving the coaching staff a three-month period in which to try to coax some of that ability out of him. See Diogu, Ike.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 11, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
If Armstrong had been drafted by the Kings
and given playing time like Hawes and JT have been given, maybe his career is looking a little different at this point. Instead, he has been a sub on a playoff contender. At least he hasn’t learned to lose.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
Also there’s the possibility that his block numbers aren’t that great because he was on the court with Chandler/Okafor, who stole them all. But that just sounds retarded, so it’s probably not true.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 11, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Same thing with his rebounds
in terms of competing with Okafor/Chandler. Kind of like the Spencer Hawes excuse at Washington (“Brockman stole them all!”).
His Defensive Rebounding Percentage this season is better than King:
- Armstrong 21.6
- Brockman 20.6
- Thomas 18.9
- JT 18.3
- Hawes 16.7
- May 16.4
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
That should read
better than any King.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
so, he rebounds like Brockman and blocks shots like Donte
what’s not to like?
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
I'm OK with this
Not thrilled. Not doing back flips. But OK. We got another big that will likely be 4th in the rotation up front if and when Thomas is dealt. The cost is a conditional 2016 2nd round draft pick. So we get a free player, basically.
This deal does not have me squirreling money away for playoff tickets, but it doesn’t have me reaching for the Ritalin, either.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That's about right...
The Kings don’t want to spend money, which with this deal, they apparently aren’t. I do hope that is for a soon to come K9 deal, but only time will tell…
"Granted, this is not a great situation, but when all you have is lemons, you add some vodka to dull the pain..."
Kings are probably gaining money on this deal
Armstrong’s salary isn’t really 2.8 mill. Its a little more than half that cause NO has already been paying him. So if the Kings got around 3 mill in cash, they made 1.5 million dollars.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Which still leaves a little cap space
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
There is a reason his numbers are horrible.....
He was playing with the best PG in the league….All he had to do was set picks and throw down oops from CP3…..If anything playing with Paul should of made him better than his actual talent…Im hoping this is a trade piece
by KingsFanatic86 on Jan 11, 2010 12:16 PM PST reply actions
You're reasoning doesn't make sense
Playing with the best PG in the league makes your numbers worse?
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
no, reverse that
He’s saying Armstrong sucks so bad that even playing with Paul didn’t save him.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Ah I get it now
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I think what he's saying is...
his (offensive) numbers w/ NO are truly horrific given that he had the advantage of playing w/ CP3 and registered only measly PPG. Following that rationale, Armstrong is actually worse than his stats would indicate b/c playing with Paul would enhance any big man’s (offensive) stats.
Chris Paul invented Tyson Chandler.
He does not hurt big men.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Jan 11, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
His lobs this year
are going to Okafor. Or would be if they were clicking better.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
I don't understand why New Orleans did this...
Why not make this trade?
Sac gives
Sean May
NO gives
Hilton Armstrong
Sean Marks
Bobby Brown
Adding the May-for-Marks/Brown part puts the Hornets fully below the luxury tax line. In doing so, it saves them a total of $1 million ($500k x 2) as well as turning them from givers into getters. That means they actually end up receiving $4M in luxury tax benefits (as I understand it). By adding these small parts, NO gets a total of $5 million more than they would with just the Armstrong trade.
With that in mind, I would think that the Kings could then pick up a 1st round pick as they gave the Hornets a solid $5 million+ in value while taking on nothing of value. The Kings could then go and waive Brown and Marks if they wanted while the Hornets could get rid of May if they wanted.
by nobodyinparticular on Jan 11, 2010 12:16 PM PST reply actions
I think they should have just traded Beno Udrih and kenny Thomas for Chris Paul... long time listener, first time caller
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Sactownroyalty would have crashed due to overload.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
My head would have exploded.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I would've...
…j*zzed in my pants.
"If you told him to head-butt the wall, he would do it." -- Paul Westphal re: Brockness Monster.
by PhutureKings on Jan 11, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
I would've...
… j*zzed in PhutureKings’ pants.
"Thou must give props" - Ice_9ine
by tomroadrunner on Jan 11, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
benefit of the doubt...
that this isn’t an unprovoked shot at me! while i may have proposed some dumb trade ideas…
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 11, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Also...
I would rather take on the $3 million of Armstrong’s contract and get more basketball value. By not having New Orleans take on Amstrong’s contract, it ends up saving the Hornets a total of $11 million (if my math is right). That is what would be worth a 1st round pick IMO.
Instead, the Kings seem to get absolutely no basketball value. They seem to be doing New Orleans a favor and getting nothing in return.
by nobodyinparticular on Jan 11, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
i'm an armstrong fan...
you can’t teach size and athleticism. if pw can get him to accept a defensive specialist role, he’ll be a great fit. this also means may’s days as a king are numbered.
"When talent is roughly equal," said Westphal, "the competitive guys win. You have to have that in this league. Here's a perfect example: We (the Phoenix Suns) drafted Tim Perry and Dan Majerle the same year (1988). Now, if you get a stopwatch for down and back (baseline to baseline sprint), Tim Perry was faster than Dan Majerle. That's a fact. But if you had them race, Dan Majerle won. I can't explain it. Somehow, he had that drive, that fire, something inside him. If you have enough guys like that, your team starts winning again."
PLaying with CP3
I was saying playing with paul would of made him play at his full potential ..ie frye in phx with nash…..But even playing with him, he did NOTHING..
by KingsFanatic86 on Jan 11, 2010 12:23 PM PST reply actions
ahhhhhh....
See I was right. Also, reply fail.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Alright new exercise
We need a nickname for him.
- Paris
- Hotel
- Cash Considerations
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I like CC Armstrong
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
House Money?
""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan
by SavageBeast on Jan 11, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
nice
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Armstrong and Brockman-
The cleaning crew.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
the mattress
because everybody is sleeping on him!!
hahahaha
I just read my comment again. WTF??? That is why you shouldn’t post before heading out to a meeting.
Also, might I suggest an “Are you sure” option after clicking Post?
Laughed out loud.
To good to use texting lingo.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
It was chat room lingo first.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
7 million comments and you choose this to comment on?
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Well, yes.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
How about HIlton "the worst UConn alum in the NBA" Armstrong
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Stretch
Not Cedric Simmons.
Free, with shipping and handling.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
U-Conn't
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 11, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
What'd you call me?
"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans
by otis29 on Jan 11, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
One small step
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Please learn to use the reply button
Just click [+] reply when you want to reply to a comment. Makes things so much easier. Thanks.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Ultimate power corrupts Aykis ; )
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Not it just means I can't yell at the guy :_(
At least without saying please.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
No that was front-paging my GBU recap all by myself
I’m a big boy now.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Is it too late to move this trade to the assinine thread and pretend it never happened...
i mean, i understand that there isnt much risk on the kings part. but the more i think about this, the more upset i get. we just gave away our cap space for what? you can’t tell me that if they had just been patient they might have been able to get more out of NO, or another team. You also can’t tell me that the deal wouldn’t have still been there after waiting.
I really don’t get it.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Why not to wait
Lttg (and probably others) have mentioned that getting Armstrong now as opposed to later allows enough time to potentially trade him away again before the deadline (30 day waiting period?)
"Sometimes the capriciousness of youth anesthetizes common sense." -Let Geoff's words guide our patience this season.
by AnotherStupidSN on Jan 11, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
Maybe a team gets more desperate nearer to the deadline. Why not hold out for a sweeter offer? Are we really that eager to add this guy? I am all in favor giving the guy a chance, but based on stats, and career performance, Hilton Armstrong is dead weight and a draft bust. I hope he proves me wrong, but this guy could not even share much time with Emeka Okafor. I watched Okafor closely when the rumors cropped up. Frankly, Okafor is lame. Hilton was lame-o’s back-up. This deal reeks of a fat lady in milkshake store: grasping at straws.
I will add -
There had been some discussion about scouring the NBDL for a back up big, In Armstrong, we get a guy that is superior to any big currently playing in the NBDL, and we basically get him for free. In that respect, this is a pretty decent move.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
exactly
didn’t give up anything …. it’s not like the dude’s going to be starting …. it’s a low risk/possibly high reward type deal.
58-14 Beats 44-6!!
we gave up our cap space and teh leverage we had over other teams. i wouldn't hate the deal if it happened closer to the deadline when it was the best we could do. i just dont see any reason to do it right now.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
can't argue with that. though i guess we can just stop the discussion on anything, shut down the board and all watch dancing with the stars reruns now...
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
$2.8 million in cap space
What that may have actually been worth we will never know.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Hilton Armstrong. We now know that it is at least worth that.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
OR
Who else has a big man in the $2.8 million range that would be worth waiting till the deadline for?
Personally I would have taken a flier on Rod Benson (who is currently playing for the King’s NBDL affiliate in Reno). Though I am not upset with this. We take a flier on a younger player who still has not been given much of a chance for the rest of the season. If it does not work out see ya. If it does great.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on Jan 11, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
So many trade options Trojan.
The Kings have enough moving parts to make almost any move they can conjure up. Noc, K-9, Sergio, Armstrong, May….. all have varying dollar figures that can be added and subtracted to make something work.
Now I will pose this question to you. What if, with the return of Garcia and Martin, Armstrong fits in perfectly as a defensive specialist and the Kings don’t have to go out and make another deal at the deadline? A three to week trial run for Armstrong as opposed to just sitting on capspace is all we are talking about here- low risk, high reward. Trade him, keep him and let him expire, waive him or resign him are some of the options available. Capspace is just that until it is used and the Kings can still go out and take a flier on an NBDL guy or a FA for a 10 day contract or veterans minimum deal without penatly because they are under the luxury threshold by 10+ mill.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
I hope they at least deal Noc at the deadline
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
garcia and martin arent coming back for what, a month? i just thought they would wait. i understand there is no risk. it just seems like they took the first thing offered is all.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Martin could be be back tomorrow
but more likely Friday. Garcia’s earliest possible return is the 26th.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Martin's MRI is tomorrow.
And if he gets the all-clear, its possible but unlikely he plays v. Orlando, and probably he plays on the Road Trip.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Garcia mentioned this weekend for Martin...
during his in-game interview and he said Martin looks great.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
MRI was last week, Tuesday is follow-up doctors appt.
formality to getting his final release to play.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
I hope he comes off the bench tomorrow night
Might be just the spark to get the crowd amped if things aren’t going well.
(and we have tix and that would be fun!)
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
I hope he plays tomorrow
would be nice for him to get the home crowd ovation in his 1st game back. That and I want him to play asap.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
The curious part of the trade, which has been mentioned but not stressed - is the timing
This is a positioning move. It has to be. Hilton Armstrong is tall and has a really cool athlete name but other than that, no. He is not a talent positive addition. He is St. Paul not Svengali Paul.
I say, welcome him, like Drew, Rashad, Sneezy, Grumpy, Bashful and Danger! Will Solomon last year at this time. However begin the countdown on February 10th for the answer to this riddle.
Oh, and a nickname: Vacancy.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 11, 2010 12:52 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if I should use my newfound powers
to ban you for mentioning He-Who-Should-Not-Be-Named. Damn! I don’t have that power. I guess I’ll just flag you.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
And just for the record
No one welcomed Will Solomon.. no one!!!
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
GAH!
Stop typing his name!
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
I say we put a purple lightnig bolt on Aykis16 forehead
TZ as Dumbledore
PG as Hagrid
Sectoin214 as Alistor Moody
andysims as Sirius Black
edm7 as Ron Weasley
and Will Sol - as he who should not be name.
yes, I am pathetic
by betweentheeyes on Jan 11, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Funny thing is
I’m not so into fur.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
not true
you are always talking about Fox
by betweentheeyes on Jan 11, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh.
Good call.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Got more
Exhibit G – Professor Flitwick
rbiegler – McGonagall
justarealdude – Draco Malfoy
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
No, no
justarealdude- Colin Creevey (dorky uber-fan with a camera)
coolcat is Draco Malfoy.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 12, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
Great call on Creevey
I guess you would be Umbridge eh? ;)
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Since you mentioned the last trading deadline.
didn’t we have similar discussions last year when we acquired Ike & Drew, and again this summer with May.
As Pookey has been quick to point out 2 of the last 3 big man aquisitions were all about the money we got back. And, May was a cheap trial of a past 1st rounder. To think that this deal is anything more than another cheap trial, is giving GP too much credit for having some super master plan on the back burner.
We get a young center/PF who was his conference defensive play of the year in his senior year, and we don’t have to pay him or keep him. No brainer. Now, we have several bigs, a couple of wings and a couple of guards with which to trade, if the opportunity arises. Otherwise, we have $15.7M in expiring contracts if we choose to do nothing until next summer.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
If nothing else
finally another player that is an actual center, so we don’t have to rotate JT and Spencer.
I guess Brockman isn't enough
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Rec'd for Vacancy
Nice
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I said it 3 times
no one really responded to it – or to you either.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Hopefully GP bats 50%
Mason – miss
May – miss
Udoka – hit
Armstrong – ?
We may become the retread Kings…
Oh, I see.
You don’t want to factor in Evans, Omri, Brockman or Sergio into your equation. I guess it is your prerogative but I look at the entire roster overhaul which 7 new faces- 5 of which seem to be extra base hits.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
They are all young players, I was thinking older or post injury
I can see your point. Armstrong is a young player as well. Not necessarily older at the end of their career or coming off of an injury like May…
Don't forget Diogu & Gooden.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Oohh yeah...
Good point… Though I am not sure Gooden should count as he was immediately waived with no trial period. Diogu though…
No, Gooden was part of the money deal to move Miller.
Ike was just a money deal, cash to take him off their hands.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Gooden wasn't waived immediately
He averaged 12 points and 13 boards in his lustrous Kings career.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
He got a one-game trial
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Its another roll of the dice and roster filler
Bad teams roll the dice a lot; I don’t have any problem with this.
1) This means K9EC can be moved for anything without regard to roster issues, and there will be plenty of tall warm bodies.
2) If I were Sean May, I’d be vewy, vewy quiet, since the only reason he’s on the team now is his contract is guaranteed.
3) Armstrong can guard more athletic big guys, which can’t be said about anyone but K9 and giving him minutes does nothing for us.
4) You never know, stranger things have happened than 25 year old 6’11" guys become productive NBA players.
There’s no risk, and very little opportunity cost in my mind.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
by ForThree on Jan 11, 2010 12:54 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Yep
well stated
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Here's 1 player that may or may not support your argument 4-3
What about Erick Dampier? While I know Hilton Armstrong will not likely reach the level that Dampier has, there’s a possibility that Armstrong can carve out a career as a player who isn’t asked to do what he’s been asked to do in Nawlinz. Dampier, for chrissake, had his career year at 28 years old.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Next up at ARCO - Free lodging at the Hilton
The price of your ticket is covered, but you can’t wear a hat, as there is no cap space.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 11, 2010 1:06 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
This just in....
The Kings are forced to fire Grant Napier to pay the newly acquired Hilton Armstrong’s salary.
Best trade ever! StR rejoices!
Don’t we all wish.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
by jjham15 on Jan 11, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Hilton?
He can rebound. That’s about it. Coming out of college he scored a 76.5 on my Draft rankings potential list. Not too good. I find this move to be a “Let’s take a flyer on a big man and see what happens.”. Kind of like Sean May. I don’t see Armstrong staying more than for the rest of this season. I hope I’m wrong but I doubt it. In 3+ seasons he has done… well…not much.
1. He’s a career 50% FG shooter, shooting 38% this season.
2. He’s a career 60% FT shooter, shooting 46.4% this season.
3. He only averages 11 points per game per 40 minutes. 8.4 this season. (Jon Brockman averages 8.5)
4. If you are looking for defense, he is only averaging 1.3 blocks a game per 40 minutes. Donte Greene, Spencer Hawes and KENNY THOMAS (!!!) all average 1.3 or more a game per 40.
5. His rebounding is improving but Jason Thompson, Kenny Thomas and Jon Brockman all average more rebounds per 40 minutes than Armstrong.
Armstong is a big body at 6’11" and is young at age 25, but I am not looking at this move as anything more than taking a flyer on a guy that with a different environment and a new outlook might turn into a serviceable backup. If he can come in and provide defense in the middle for 10-15 minutes here and there, then it’s a good pickup. If not, then it may turn out to be a waste of a 2nd round pick. Still, not many second round picks turn into Jon Brockman so it’s probably worth the flyer.
Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)
Did you mean
he CAN’T rebound? Because his advanced stats say he’s absolutely horrible for a 6’11 guy.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
There is no way to know until we see him in action
Whether his decent stats this year because he’s gotten better/older are more representative or whether the previous years are.
No one knows, wait a few weeks and see what happens. Crucifying a 25 year old 10 minute a game guy without seeing him play on our team seems a little premature.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
He's putting up ok rebounding numbers this year in limited minutes in 18 games
But in over 120 games in previous season he’s posted horrid rebounding numbers.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
All of his 120 games are limited minutes, the guy is a career bench player
There is no way to know until we see him in action , whether his decent stats this year because he’s gotten better/older are more representative or whether the previous years are.
He’s never averaged more than 16 minutes a game in any season.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
I'm going to simplify this trade for everyone....
IT BALANCES THE ROSTER.
C: Hawes, Armstrong, May
PF: Thompson, Brockman, Thomas
SF: Greene, Casspi, Nocioni
SG: Martin, Garcia, Udoka
PG: Evans, Beno, Sergio
That’s it. If you analyze any further, you’re over analyzing it. /story
Until we find out for sure
the Kings couldn’t do a trade because we gave up those 3 mil to Armstrong, I have zero problem with this trade. We’ve been asking for a young big for a while and, though, the one we got doesn’t look too impressive, I’ll wait to see how he does in a Kings uniform before judging the guy.
If he sucks, then he’ll sit on the bench and we maybe lost a 2016 second rounder. It’s not an earth shaking move but it gives the Kings a little more depth up front and a chance to see if Armstrong could be serviciable in the future.
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
loren woods wasn't available?
by allbenji's on Jan 11, 2010 1:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Jerryisms
Swatted out of there by Stretch Armstrong.
He brought it into the lane, but found out that there was no vacancy at the Hilton.
Into the strong arms of Armstrong!
The Tasmonian U-Conian.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 11, 2010 2:06 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
This also positions the Kings
to be able to throw in May on any trade involving k-9 and/or Noc. Armstrong can’t get any less play time on the Kings than May has gotten. I’d also look for either Armstrong or May to get a case of malignant dandruff and wind up on the IR when Martin and Cisco return.
Purveyor of Bull Plop
That's because
you don’t need reservations to be injured and on the Kings.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
By the numbers
PER 36 MINUTES
* JT: 48% FG, 73% FT, 3.6 ORB, 5.7 DRB, 2.2 ASST, 0.6 STLs, 1.0 BLKS, 2.1 TOVs, 4.0 Fs, 14.9 pts. 110 Offensive Rating, 110 Defensive Rating.
* Hawes: 48% FG, 75% FT, 2.6 ORB, 5.2 DRB, 2.9 ASST, 0.7 STLs, 1.2 BLKS, 2.3 TOVs, 3.7 Fs, 14.4 pts. 106 Offensive Rating, 110 Defensive Rating.
* Brockman: 51% FG, 63% FT, 6.4 ORB, 6.5 DRB, 1.5 ASST, 0.8 STLs, 0.3 BLKS, 1.3 TOVs, 6.2 Fs, 7.8 pts. 126 Offensive Rating, 109 Defensive Rating.
* Thomas: 49% FG, 58% FT, 4.1 ORB, 5.9 DRB, 2.0 ASST, 1.1 STLs, 0.6 BLKS, 2.2 TOVs, 3.3 Fs, 12.2 pts. 105 Offensive Rating, 108 Defensive Rating.
* May: 41% FG, 75% FT, 0.7 ORB, 5.1 DRB, 1.8 ASST, 1.8 STLs, 0.4 BLKS, 2.6 TOVs, 5.5 Fs, 9.9 pts. 83 Offensive Rating, 108 Defensive Rating.
* Armstrong: 38% FG, 46% FT, 2.6 ORB, 6.6 DRB, 2.4 ASST, 1.2 STLs, 1.2 BLKS, 2.0 TOVs, 6.6 Fs, 7.7 pts. 89 Offensive Rating, 105 Defensive Rating.
Just looking at the numbers, we need to remember that we don’t have any real solid big men, with apologies to JT. It looks like Armstrong is the best defensive player of the batch and the best defensive rebounder, so he might come in handy for end-of-quarter offense-defense switches or if you need to get a key defensive rebound instead of a Pau Gasol tip-in.
It’s also interesting to note that Brockman’s offensive rating numbers are by far the best of the group, and his defensive rating numbers are slightly better than JT and Hawes.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 2:31 PM PST reply actions
If you're looking at career advanced stats
And not Per 36 minutes stats, Armstrong is the worst defensive rebounder of the group. By quite a bit.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
This year, though
His numbers beat every King. See above.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
He's also played less minutes than any King
other than Sean May and Kevin Martin. Kevin Martin in 5 games only had 30 total game minutes less than Armstrong.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
Dude must have really been in the doghouse
To not play since Dec. 14.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
Buncha freakin pessimists
Can’t you people see Geoff Petrie is creating the ultimate NBA2K10 bench lineup?
Sergio, Greene, Casspi, Armstrong and Hawes. Turn the game into an alley-oop fest.
Way to go, Petrie! Way to freakin go.
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Why the apology?
For paying the Kings to take a blown lottery pick off of the Hornets’ hands? We get bench meat at absolutley no charge, and you guys get some of the cap relief that you needed. Win win, at least as far as my simple mind can tell.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Maybe it is
Because we didn’t get the 1st round pick as I believe you may have suggested to them for getting Hilton.
That would have been a nice deal -
I’m not sure what that has to do with issuing an apology for this deal. To recap, the Hornets paid the Kings to take their 2006 lottery pick off of their hands. I just don’t get why we are due an apology for that. Again, I am rather dense.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Not dense at all, or ever
My thought was he was apologizing for us not getting a better deal, but then your point seemed to shut him up pretty effectively. We get him at no cost for a free trial period. He had no reply…
Shelden Williams experiment again....
lottery pick that hasn’t played up to draft position
but this time we didn’t have to give up a mike bibby
good deal…Armstrong better get ready to battle Brockman for pt
I'm going to give Petrie the benefit of the doubt.
Armstrong has only been in the league for 3 years and has been with NO the whole time. He is super athletic and may play better in the Kings system.
I think the trade was good. If he doesn’t work out no big loss.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
this
We only gave up a second round pick in 2016 (which even if NO collected on that, would hopefully be one of the last picks in the draft that year, Tyreke will have 6 seasons under his belt by then) for a 6’11 long armed athletic center. Regardless of how he turns out with this team, his contract is up next year, and its a little bit of an experiment. Either it works and GP looks like a genius (again), or it doesn’t and 2 years from now we’ll probably forget he even was on our team.
Speak for yourself
I remember Evers Burns, Randy Breuer, Les Jepsen. And as God is my witness, I will always remember…hold on a minute…where did I put that note…oh yeah…Hilton Armstrong!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 11, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
To compare my memory to yours is unfair
Besides the fact that, you section, are a basketball god; three years of college have left me with a Kronic Memory Loss Disorder. Plus i tend to block out bad memories from past.
Mmm... Evers Burns and Randy Breuer...
…I believe that is a St. Jean vintage about ’93 or ’94.
After watching the highlight vid I see some positives
For a 6’11 guy he has a decent handle and first step, not as good as JT but not bad
Move decently without the ball and runs the fast break well.
Lots of BJax in the clips…lets ask him what he thinks of Armstrong
I remember the 2006 draft
I was visiting friends in Chicago, and we were at ESPN Zone. I was hoping that Armstrong or Cedric Simmons would fall to us at 19, but New Orleans grabbed them both (Armstrong at 12, Simmons at 15). I hope a change of scenery does him some good, because he has done very little for the Hornets. Big East defensive player of the year in ‘05-’06 for UConn – let’s hope that he can find some of that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Three things impressed me in the highlight video
1. he seems to have a very good left hand.
2. he has the ability to dunk without needing a running start.
3. he blocked Amare, very cool.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
He blocked Dwight Howard, too
And that’s why they made the deal today. :|
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 11, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
seems like he was a promising kid who's shown flashes....
From the clips you’d think he was a great shot blocker but looking at his stats over time he’s just average. But average NBA-wise still translates to him probably being our 2nd best shot blocker (after Hawes).
PW tends to bring out the best in his players. Sac will only be Armstrong’s 2nd team. A change in scenery should d him good.
Bobby Jackson was the one who ordered the trade
He is a BJax of all trades for the Kings FO these days, ambassador, spokesperson, scout, and assistant GM………..oh and he fits the role of BAMF on the side lines during games.
Wow, sweet.
I was always hoping Hilton Armstrong would have dropped down to us, during that draft he was in. He was taken 12th overall that draft.
I’m actually pretty excited. Hilton is an interesting prospect with some potential left.
Someone posted back up there a bit that because he was traded by himself, the 3 month rule doesnt apply...
i am all in favor of this if that is the case.
At USC we're not snobs, we're just better than you.
Well so much for my theory of the Kings not having cap room.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
You weren't wrong,
they must have renounced their exemptions & cap holds. ESPN Trade Machine still shows the Kings as being $42M over the cap limit.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
The trade machine is wrong
We’re no where near $93 mil no matter who’s options or exemptions we’re doing something with.
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's the cap holds,
BJax had a cap hold over $15M
I can’t find the totals now, but if you look at next year, Thomas has a cap hold of $13M, Armstrong has a hold of $8M, and Sergio has a hold of $5.7M. Plus the MLE, Bi-annual and other exemptions are almost $10M. So, that’s $36.7M for next year with just those 3 players.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
According to ShamSports,
we would now be at $56,348,208, including the salaries of Armstrong and the buyout/guaranteed amounts for Mikki Moore and Desmond Mason.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That salary would be correct if you've subtracted the 282K off Moore's total
Just FYI.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Read my write up over at ECI
It’s on the front page. I might have something later, but I doubt it. I have to head off to school for my 3rd class (gotta love night classes).
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Better than morning classes in my opinion
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
So, who loses the most PT? JT, Spencer, Brockman, Thomas, none of the above.
For the month of January
JT is averaging 30.0mpg
Spence is 24.2mpg
Brockman is 18.8mpg
Thomas is 6.3mpg
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Thomas
and maybe Noc loses a couple of his minutes at the 4.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Yea, I wasn't sure how many of Noc's & Donte's minutes were at the 4/5.
I know Donte did get some time at the 5 in one game.
And, there’s 16.7mpg not accounted for in the total or those 4 players.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
yeah there's really no reason for KT or Noce to play anymore AFAIC
once Martin and Garcia come back. I’m fine with Hilton getting 12 minutes or so behind Spencer.
Any chance that
Armstong is to the signing of Sean May, what Ime was to the signing of Desmond Mason. In other words we brought on Sean and Desomnd. Mason was the worst off the start so we tried another guy named Ime Udoka, who has turned out quit good so far. Maybe Hilton, like Ime, can provide what we though May would provide when the Kings brought him on.
I like this trade...give him a chance
There’s a reason why Petrie went after him, just like he had a reason to get Sergio.
I don’t think Sergio is that bright for a point guard, turns it over, but has moments of
brilliance…I think Hilton will be our Sergio at the center position.
by getPGwithbounce on Jan 11, 2010 5:20 PM PST reply actions
Fun fact
Armstrong ranks 19th in the NBA when ranking players alphabetically, last name first, coming in just behind Trevor Ariza!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Great Move.
I follow all former UConn players. The Kings just robbed the Hornets. Hilton is an underdevelop Gem. One poster said, “He played with CP3, he should have better #s”…. WRONG. Chandler played with CP3. Hilton played with pass-first PGs: BJax, Pargo, Antonio Daniels, etc. His offensive is extremely underrated. Its better than his D, which is just avg. Look for him to avg 9 and 6. FYI, everyone out of SAC think Spence sux. Armstrong/JT would be a nice starting frontcourt.
FYI
30 out of 30 NBA coaches would start Spencer and JT over Armstrong and JT.
Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.
How many would start Brockman over Hawes?
retorical:
If Spencer, JT and HA were our best bigs, maybe HA comes off the bench. But, Spencer & JT probably play PF better than HA and could fill in at both position better than HA. So, maybe PW brings Spencer off the bench, for whoever is having problems with his man or is in foul trouble. So, that would make it 29 out of 30.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
Str comment # 1000
990 if you only count my stupid comments.
We now have 13 Mil + or – in expiring
what could we get for that (We could take on over 16 mil) for that and the 2010 and 2012 #1 picks.
Just asking what’s the most we could draw from that?
I know this is now 991.
DAR-KO DAR-KO DAR-KO
I don’t even know what that means.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
The bigger picture
With Kmart coming back, our team is going to shift its focus. Kmart’s going to take more shots than the guys who have been replacing him at the 2. Meanwhile, Tyreke isn’t taking less shots. Omri and Noc aren’t taking less shots. That means less shots up front for JT and Co. and even more emphasis on defense.
I don’t think Spencer will be impacted as much as JT. Spencer’s high post passing game works real well with Kevin. I think Brockman will see more PT, JT less to the point where they and Hawes are actually pretty close (all in the 20s in terms of minutes), with Armstrong/Kenny pitching in 10-12 minutes a game on some nights.
We’ll probably also see more small ball lineups to take advantage of our depth at the 2-3 positions.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 5:59 PM PST reply actions
I think, too
That with Kevin as a team we will be taking a few more shots a game by playing at a quicker pace, scoring more quickly, not losing the ball as often on 24 second violations or turnovers because we took so long to get in the offense.
Is this guy even healthy?
Just asking, because he hasn’t played since Dec. 14.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 11, 2010 6:34 PM PST reply actions
Damn, we traded for Hilton Armstrong and Noce is still here?
I thought for sure we would get Armstrong and Morris Peterson for Noce.
There can only be one Noce!
I would have done that deal in a heartbeat Noce.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
At least one Lakers fan seems crushed by the news:
So, that’s fun.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
she gives a whole new meaning to
“turn down service”
by betweentheeyes on Jan 11, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't think she had any experience
in the turning down area
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
Armstrong might be a good fit for this team.
Draft Express says he has a 7’4" armspan, very athletic, and he has added to his frame. Overall, when people talk about trying to get a young, defensive minded center to add to the rotation, he pretty much fits the bill. He has more experience that Javale McGee, DeAndre Jordan, Fesenko. He does not have the infamous overpaid contracts of Sammy D, his teammate Emeka, any of the Bobcat’s centers. He fills the need we had perfectly. Now it is time to see what he can do, maybe surprise some people, and maybe get himself a decent contract next year with the Kings. Annd by decent, I mean the minimum, and hopefully only 2 years, if that.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
All good positive points, but I'd still rather have Jordan.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
let's hope he does.
The kings really need another C to help Hawes during foul troubles. They are already stuffed with young and talented guards and forward, no need to bring in another G or F.
reply button please
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
What's beautiful is I used to say this to people
And now the next generation StR’ers are doing it. It’s so incredible how a plan comes together.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Carlos Boozer is old!!!
Boozer is definitely good, but he’s getting old (prone to injuries)
Reply button dude.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
Man, this is a lot of comments based on Hilton Armstrong
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Just wait 'til we get Bosh this summer
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
people must be believing we'll be good again soon
Bolt the Doors!
So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 11, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Get ready to tell more people about the reply button
Godfather of the "nice ass" movement.... the future begins now...
Get ready to start using the flag button...
GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims
Get ready to make a douche button section...
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
Get ready for more Pookey pokes, an even more asinine trade thread section and 30 more trade KMart posts
Judgment day is coming!
Comrade Pooh would like to have a discussion with you.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Lot of negative comments for Hilton...
Watch him pull a Sergio…I hope
by getPGwithbounce on Jan 12, 2010 1:00 AM PST reply actions
I'd rather have him pull a Donte, but good thoughts
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy
GP sure loves his expiring contracts...
This is a pretty underwhelming deal from my perspective, but if Petrie digs it I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt.
Better than acquiring that extra second rounder anyway!
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
The best part of this thread
looking forward to Aykis16’s apology for completely dismissing the possibility Armstrong could be a good pickup.
Free Omri...trade.Noc.
All I know
is I am going to make sure I get a Paris Hilton bobblehead before they sell out.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 8:24 AM PST reply actions
I think their's video of the "Paris Hilton Bobblehead" somewhere on the net.
No law when it comes to me.
I let you type critics write and I just keep it hood.
That will never change.
I am not kissing no ones ass because I'm in LA. Suck a cock.
-Ron Artest (e-mail exchange with Kyle Slavin)
I think you mean there's
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
Just like the real thing
Only smarter.
StR Token Female
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 12, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Hilton cranks the StankyLeg?
I don’t know if he can rebound. I don’t know if he can stop fouling, but he sure as hell can crank one hell of a Stanky Leg. It looks like the Kings definitely got a high character guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4bP1GBH9Nk
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