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ANDRES NOCIONI NO LONGER NEEDED ON KINGS

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Here’s a quick look at what Noce brings to the table and whether the Kings can make do without his contributions.

OFFENSE

NOCIONI’S REPUTATION:

Three point shooter. Nocioni belatedly developed NBA 3 point range in his latter years with Chicago. His career average is .370, with his highest average of .399 coming last year, when he split time between Chicago and Sacramento. (in fact, he averaged around .441 in the 23games he played for the Kings last season). 

Unfortunately, Nocioni is averaging just .346 (47-136) from 3points this season, the lowest since his rookie year (when he hit .258, hitting 25 out of 97attempts). He also has been way off in the last month, completely obliterating all the good work he did in November. 

What makes things worse for Nocioni is the emergence of Israeli rookie sensation Omri Casspi, who is now hitting an unbelievable .455 from 3points. Add to that the 3point prowess of Beno Udrih, Donte Greene, Ime Udoka and, in a few weeks or so, Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia, and Nocioni becomes the last and least of the Kings’ 3point options.

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Star-divide

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Willing to take it to the rim. Nocioni made a reputation in the Euroleague and in his earlier years with the Bulls as a hard charging forward who is more than willing to take it to the hole. 

Unfortunately, Nocioni (and his coaches) seem to have fallen in love with his “3point range”, transforming him from a bruising inside player with an outside shot to a hit-and-miss 3point shooter who occasionally goes for the lay up. As a result, his scoring and shooting percentages have gone down. Compare his 05-06 and 06-07 seasons when he shot just 238 and 209 three pointers, averaging 13 and 14.1 points respectively with his 07-08 and 08-09 seasons when he shot 346 and 311 threes and averaged just 13.2 and 11.4 points respectively. 

His cause isn’t helped by the presence of Jason Thompson, a legit inside player (something the Bulls didn’t have), Jon Brockman, a willing inside player and the troika of Beno Udrih, Sergio Rodriguez and Tyreke Evans, who are all quick and wily slashers.  It seems a trifle weird that these players (3 of whom are considerably smaller than Noce) are willing to mix it up inside while Nocioni camps out on the three point line. 

DEFENSE

NOCIONI’S REPUTATION:

Tough rebounder. Nocioni’s tenacity and willingness to bang inside made him a capable rebounder, one willing to fight bigger and taller players for the ball. In his first playoff game with Chicago, Noce grabbed 18 rebounds while scoring 25points. His career numbers are decent for an SF, but not outstanding. 

This year. Noce has been horrible on the boards, logging almost a full rebound (3.4rebs) less than his worst year (4.2rebs in 2007) in Chicago. True, he is more often than not out on the perimeter, guarding the other team’s SF but we’ve seen rebounding PG’s like Jason Kidd (5.3rebs) and Rajon Rondo (4.1rebs) get way more than that! 

And with Jon Brockman, Jason Thompson, K9 and, in a bit, Hilton Armstrong, the Kings are able to parade a host of big men all better at the boards than Nocioni. 

An effective physical defender. Nocioni is a very physical defender, using his body and strength to keep superstar forwards off their favorite spots. He usually draws the Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Carmelo Anthony-type assignments. More often than not, he has been effective, making the likes of Kevin Durant bleed for their points. 

Three weeks ago, Nocioni lost his starting spot to rookie Omri Casspi. After Nocioni had a good game against Denver, coach Paul Westphal was asked about Nocioni’s struggles. Particularly telling was Westphal’s statement that Nocioni has been struggling on both the offensive and defensive side of things, which was why he was coming off the bench. 

To make matters worse for Noce, Donte Greene finally bought into the defensive stopper concept and has done a tremendous job against the very same people Nocioni used to draw as defensive assignments. Omri Casspi has also been better than advertised (as far as defense and rebounding is concerned) and Ime Udoka has lived up to his billing as a Bruce Bowen type player (great defender with 3point range). 

As the last few games have shown us, in crucial defensive situations, Noce, more often than not, takes as seat while his younger teammates get the job done. 

THE FINAL VERDICT

Yep, just as I thought. Kings do not need Nocioni at all.

Not “a little”, not “sometimes”. They do not need him at all.

And yes, trade him now, please.

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(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

Comment 70 comments  |  14 recs  | 

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Good Breakdown!

Rec’d for opposing your SN!

Tyreke Evans for R.O.Y!

by sac-townz finest on Jan 12, 2010 3:33 AM PST reply actions  

Hehehe.

The truth is the truth, no matter if we don’t like it.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 AM PST up reply actions  

But STR is better with you around.

Best reason for keeping Noc that I can come up with unfortunately. rec’d

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 12, 2010 4:09 AM PST reply actions  

Thanks KFan.

I think I’ll stick around here, regardless of Noce’s next destination. :-)

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 AM PST up reply actions  

That's great news

You are quality.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 12, 2010 4:56 AM PST up reply actions  

BOO!

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Ouch, chapu! :-)

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

At least you'll know where Chapu stands. LOL

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Score one for intellectual integrity! Well done, Noceone

Now let me disagree with you. Nocioni could have a role on this team if he would just play tough D, move the ball, hit the occasional shot, and as you point out, take the ball to the hoop. Instead he fires off threes early in the shot clock when he’s never been the kind of player who should look for early threes. He’s a black hole and not really bringing the toughness like he used to.

It’s not that the Kings don’t have any use for Nocioni, it’s that they don’t have any use for the Chucka McChuckathree version of Nocioni that they’re getting. If he would just stop forcing and take what comes like he did against Phoenix he could definitely have a place.

That said, trade him at the earliest opportunity. It would be good/fair for him and he’d probably have a better chance of thriving elsewhere.

by nbrans on Jan 12, 2010 8:34 AM PST reply actions  

Very good points

I see him being a good contributor on a Jerry Sloan team, maybe a NO, or even Chicago again, but his time here is done.

by timmy1 on Jan 12, 2010 8:50 AM PST reply actions  

Rec'd for truth Noce

Well done sir.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 9:11 AM PST reply actions  

this is not truth, it's libel!

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

They must have a different definition in Chapuland.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Rec'd

trade Noc

Sign NoceOne to a StR contract extension!

Free Omri...trade.Noc.

by ForThree on Jan 12, 2010 9:11 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Getting the job done?
As the last few games have shown us, in crucial defensive situations, Noce, more often than not, takes as seat while his younger teammates get the job done.

We’re 9-8 when Nocioci plays more than normal (24:11 is his median PT), 6-11 when he doesn’t. Meanwhile, we’ve lost 13 of 19 since the younger guys “started getting it done.” He played more than normal in our wins against Denver (first win on STR Night), Milwaukee and Washington during that otherwise dismal stretch.

I realize the team is in transition mode and we have lots of prospects emerging at the three, but Nocioni can still produce value and wins for this young team, so let’s not be so quick to throw him under the bus.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 9:41 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

You have to account for the schedule since

LA twice, Cleveland, Phx, Dallas etc..

He’s still a good, tough player and I think a contender should be eager to have him. It would give him focus and he would bring a lot but he isn’t in our future.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

As long as you don't go around toting your "we need to get better value for him than John Salmons nonsense like a 1st round pick" again

I agree with that statement for the most part.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Well I still think we could have gotten something for Salmons by himself

It was losing Brad’s contract that was the problem. But maybe I’m wrong, apparently those GMs have thier jobs for a reason.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jan 12, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Brad Miller's contract was more important in the Bulls deal. (Mainly because John Salmons is terrible)

Although, the Org. must’ve known that they weren’t going to offer BG a contract, and instead start the incredibly awful John Salmons instead.

B-Rad’s expiring contract allows the Bulls to have a chance at a max contract player (although that would mean losing t-time unless they trade for more cap space)

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

You're forgetting that Salmons had a trade kicker

That wasn’t all that attractive either.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sold on your median play time scenarios (yet)

I mean, they are interesting – but I’m not sold that it’s not a “chicken or the egg” argument.

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 12, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Letting the young guys get their feet wet in these situations

Means more wins in the long run.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Jan 12, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree to a point

It’s a two-edged sword. They get their feet wet, but pile up losses if overused, which hurts confidence and could breed more losing.

That’s why I think it’s good to retain some veteran leadership and play the kids the minutes they show they can handle.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh

Casspi and Greene’s confidence won’t be shaken if Noc is gone. Between those two guys and Garcia (veteran) and Udoka (veteran), the 3 is more than covered. If it costs us a game or two along the way but we jettison the contract, I say adios, muchacho.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 12, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

214 speaks wisely.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

True, but the reason he played a lot of minutes in those games was because he was playing well.

I, for one, thought he should have played more in the Phoenix game, because no one could stop him. PW took him out late in the third, I think and brought him back in the last minute of the fourth, when he didn’t get another shot off. In that game, he scored 19pts in 22mins in 6-10 shooting.

Contrast that with the GSW game when he played for 27 mins but scored only 10 pts on 3-11 shooting. Hard to say he should have played more in that game when he went 0-5 from 3.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

27 minutes is about right for Nocioni

It’s right in his winning sweet spot. Playing him 6-8 minutes, not so cool.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

well, i agree with this one.

I didn’t agree with his PT in the last game.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Recd

Good stuff. Lately LPA and I have taken to calling him N-o-o-o-o-o-o-ce. Because that’s what we yell when he jacks up another shot.

""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan

by SavageBeast on Jan 12, 2010 10:03 AM PST reply actions  

Now its BENO!

Good for him, good for us.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jan 12, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Or TAZMANIAN SLOVENIAN

Or Beno, Draino
Or Beno, takes the gas out of the opposition

by Smills91 on Jan 14, 2010 6:38 AM PST up reply actions  

NoceOne, I feel betrayed.

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 12:08 PM PST reply actions  

Hey man, don't be.

If Noce is traded, it’s another opportunity to start anew, get Noce’s game going again.

On the Kings, there are too many players doing the same thing Noce does. Just imagine if Noce got traded to the Hawks, with Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby to pass him the ball, Al Horford and josh Smith to help him on defense…that’s a great spot for Nocioni (since SF is the Hawks’ weak spot).

Or how about if Noce goes to Lakers the (some LA blogs have fans trading Vujacic and Morrison for him, i don’t know why)? He becomes a 7th man who could potentially be on the floor with Kobe, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom. That’s pretty potent right there.

See, the thing is looking at what’s best for Nocioni too. Right now, the Kings do not seem to be the best fit for him. Maybe it’s time for Nocioni to go to another team where his skills are much more needed.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not giving up on the Kings and neither is Chapu

So don’t give up on Chapu being on the Kings.

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

See, this is what I like most about you.

You’re the fiery, never-say-die Chapu fan that I keep tightly leashed inside me. You are unafraid to express that which I feel but which my brain says is irrational. I wish I could be as brave and unbridled in my fanhood as you are.

Lead the way, my man, I’ll follow.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

No need to pray.

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

^ That exchange was awesome.

The best aspects of Fandom. Recs for each post.

Teh Dego Dagger

by BPaoliano on Jan 12, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't get

“trade him now, please”, like he’s a problem that needs to be purged. Especially coming from NoceOne. I also applaud the integrity and objectivity. But that last comment made it sound like he’s a tumor.

Two things are meaningful to me:

1. It is evident that the 3 position can be at least adequately covered as these kids develop.

2. Noci has value among “missing that one piece” playoff-bound teams, and, therefore, value as a chip to the Kings.

If that is what’s being said, “Here, here.”

Lower their expectations and rise to met them

by left hand on Jan 12, 2010 1:33 PM PST reply actions  

Sorry, did not mean to imply that Noce is a problem.

Im just the impatient kind, one who wants things done immediately.

Now that we all (well, most of us) agree that Nocioni should be traded, we should just get it done.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

BOO!

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

It’s like playing a game of clue and having your older brother boo you every time you try to stab him in the back!

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jan 12, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Deep, man.

hope you’re not really mad at me.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Chapuforyou

is quickly becoming my favorite poster here on StR….lol.

by Smills91 on Jan 14, 2010 6:40 AM PST up reply actions  

"Like he's a problem that needs to be purged"

I think he is. He’s turned into a super-chucker, an Argentinean Maurice Taylor, and it’s sickening to watch. He shoots almost every time he touches the ball, whether he’s open or not, and they don’t usually go in. He missed a handful of WIDE open shots against Golden State. He no longer takes the ball to the basket, and it seems like every time he DOES get a shot to fall I’m sitting there going “NO NO NO DON’T SHOOT THA………yay?” Nocioni is John Salmons 2.0, except he’s not nearly as good. He ruins the team’s chemistry when he’s in the game. My favorite game this season will be the first game after “chapu” is off the roster.

"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)

by CaliforniaJag on Jan 12, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more.

I think we are doing too much player-by-player dissection of a team chemistry situation.

Noci is going all catch-and-shoot. JT is in a “funk”. Hawes can’t seem to figure out whether he’s supposed to jump, shoot, crouch, or stop-drop-and-roll.

We have a new stud on the block who will spend this whole season being really fun to watch while he tries to figure out defensive schemes and decision-making. Defense is disjointed and offense is all out of rhythm. Players are learning each other and roles are being defined not by mandate but by on-the-job-training.

Hey, Evans-Martin backcourt will be awesome. But it might have some growing pains. Neither one is a jerk/loser who must be exiled.

I think some of us have sucked a little too much early season helium.

Lower their expectations and rise to met them

by left hand on Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Nocioni isn't the only one with "big nuts". It takes fortitude to evaluate the diminishing value of your avatar namesake on a team

rec’d for the toughness expected of a Noce – real or ’the one".

Somewhere along the way the gritty defender and hustle guy has been overshadowed by the Nate Robinson/Ben Gordon off the bench instant offense only player seen these last number of games. It’s almost like Donté and Nocioni have traded some of their DNA – Greene looks more like the Noce of last season, Noce is acting somewhat like Doratio.

I expect that if the coaches want this seasoned pro to revert back, he will do it or bust a hump trying. Or has Nocioni turned a corner? If so, he has limited his skill set.

by betweentheeyes on Jan 12, 2010 1:45 PM PST reply actions  

Nocioni has made some big 3s for us this season

If he’s open, there’s no doubt he should shoot it.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST reply actions  

He's a shooter, you let shooters shoot

But its time we found him a new home due to Casspi/Donte’.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Jan 12, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

That being said, I wouldn't mind him being traded to Nets.

Devin Harris, Courtney Lee, Nocioni, Yi and Lopez?
That’s a tough starting 5.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Nets won't do that because they'd rather take a run at LeBron first.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

2 expirings for 1...

extra year on Noce for an SF that can readily step in the starting 5 and make them better.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Noce

Is Noc better than LBJ?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

You bet.

Lindon Baines Johnson was a chucker.

StR Token Female

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 12, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Y diss #36

he was able to rebound in Dallas

by betweentheeyes on Jan 12, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

but isn't it a small difference?

Battie is 6.6M coming off the books.
Armstrong and May is about 4M.

Would them doing this deal put them out of the running for LBJ automatically?

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Not necessarily. I could see the Nets considering Noc from that perspective

I just don’t see the Nets doing anything to touch that cap room because they want to have enough to get LeBron there if they can.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

ok then.

I still don’t don’t think that 2M is that big of a difference tho. :-)

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 12, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Casspi maybe; Donte still lives in the "show me" state

Tonight was but the latest example.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 12, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed, coolcat.

Donte’s flashes of brilliance…are simply that.

33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.

by JETisKing on Jan 13, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Great points, Noce.

Thanks for taking the time to write this!

33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.

by JETisKing on Jan 13, 2010 4:54 PM PST reply actions  

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