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Post-"Game" Thread: Kings @ Orlando


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"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)

by Player To Be Named Later on Jan 22, 2010 6:33 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Ugly loss, but still only counts as one.

Play better tomorrow please.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 22, 2010 6:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Is there a way

to play worse than this?

"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan

Go Kings!

by Panzerfaust on Jan 22, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See last season Panz.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There were exceptions.

I’m so glad last year is not, umm, this year.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok.

Is there a way to play worse than this without Natt/Theus coaching?

"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan

Go Kings!

by Panzerfaust on Jan 23, 2010 5:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. It's definitely possible.

It’s just not that likely.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 23, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn! What a bad game!

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 22, 2010 6:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow, just wow...

Please come home soon boys… This road stuff sucks…

by OrangeLazarus on Jan 22, 2010 6:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I know I've seen worse King's games

but at the momnet known come to mind

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 22, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

NO ES BUENO.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Jan 22, 2010 6:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

On first glance.

I thought this said: “EVERYBODY PRACTICE!!!!!!” To which I initially thought, that is some solid advice right there.

A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...

by Jaycee on Jan 22, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sergio played well

I forgot he was on the team, apparently so did Westphal.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 6:37 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

8 pts, 5 assists, 3 stls in 10 minutes

why is he reduced to a fan so much?

The Dude abides

by SlowJoe445 on Jan 22, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

3 t/os in 10 minutes

For every two amazing passes he makes, he tries some crazy circus move and loses the ball. That’s what Donte in trouble early thsi year. If he’d cut out the super fancy crap and stick to what he does best, he’d get more minutes. Plus, remember, his minutes were against the scrubs for the most part. I like him, but I’d like him more if he didn’t try so hard to get fancy.

""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan

by SavageBeast on Jan 22, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's Sets up his teammates off the dribble

Something NO other King does He is not the answer to why the Kings are losing and he sure isn’t the answer to bring wins, but he should be playing just as much as Beno. The Kings need what he brings. A guy who can dribble, penetrate and find open players. He gets players wide open shots and layups.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It seems the Sergio camp is picking up steam.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He should be getting at least SOME burn ...

DNP for like 10 games in a row seems a bit harsh, particularly when we have been playing like crap.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Stats per 40 minutes this year

Sergio is averaging 17.3 points, 9.3 assists, 3.6 rebounds, 2.0 steals and 4.0 turnovers. That is worthy of a second point guard off the bench in my opinion. Beno is more of a shooting point guard. He should back up Martin.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

First point guard off the bench that is.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And third on the team in PER going into tonight's game

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Neither of you are capable of convincing me that Sergio Rodriguez is the answer.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's not the answer

He just should be getting the same spot minutes he was playing when we were playing better.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well gee if we could play the Nets 82 times this year...

…I’m pretty sure we’d be 79-3.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We beat more than the Nets

You could look it up.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I could.

That would require for me to first understand what your point about bringing that up would be. (Besides, I already knew that without having to look it up.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The point is

We were playing much better early in the season. MUCH better. No matter how many excuses you want to come up with to diminish that good stretch, we have completely lost the feeling we had early on. And I think a lot of it is due to Westphal jerking the lineup around too much.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it couldn't because the Kings have played the league's best teams since returning from Chicago.

That couldn’t possibly be a single reason why.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes they played the Lakers and Cavs

but they’ve also had the TWolves, Sixers twice, the Wiz, etc.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually they haven't played the Wolves since playing at Chicago

They played the Wolves 3 days prior to being in Chicago to play the Bulls.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pookey

The Kings are playing 1-on-1 ball right now. Nocioni, Greene, Beno, Evans, Martin, all players are getting the ball (after a couple pointless passes) and then going one-on-one or driving in the lane to create a shot. With Sergio handliing the ball, the players know that he is looking to drive to SET PLAYERS UP. So, they cut more, they move to open spaces, they set better screens and they run the floor harder.

I am NOT SAYING THAT SERGIO IS THE ANSWER. He won’t win the game by himself. He SETS A DIFFERENT TEMPO to the game when he is on the floor offensively. He has his bad possessions and moments – so does every King player – but his presence on the floor is almost always a positive.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No not really

It’s not really almost always a positive. That’s why he isn’t getting minutes ahead of Beno.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

But again, when he is on the floor he is rarely playing with the best offensive players on the floor. He needs players to set up. Brockman, Udoka, Armstrong and Greene are not the best offensive players on the Kings.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And that's why he's not on the floor.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Point taken

See my below post

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Another point

Almost every time Sergio is on the floor he is playing with the bench players. I would love to see this lineup:
Sergio
Evans/Casspi
Martin
Nocioni
Hawes

I think this would spread the floor like mad and create TONS of havoc to the defense. That is a very potent shooting offense and with a point guard lookinig to set up the other players and crafty enough to get them open, it could be potent. FOR A SHORT TIME. That would not be a good defensive lineup, but when the Kings need offense, it would be very effective.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand all these points.

I just don’t think it’s that simple.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's Not

You still need a team on the same page, spacing and players making smart decisions.

This is the NBA after all. That’s what they get paid to do.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 22, 2010 9:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

What I disagree with is that inserting Sergio Rodriguez for small stretches is to the answer to this problem.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

I love me some Sergio Rodriguez. In fact, my dream lineup would consist of Sergio, Martin, Casspi, Greene and Hawes or Thompson, so that the game could turn into a dunkfest.
However, I and every sane person out there has to concede that had Sergio been important to contributing wins, he would certainly be getting more minutes. Sergio is very good at what he does, and what he does is fun to watch, but it does not make the Kings any better, just more interesting. In certain matchups, yes he can help the Kings win, but as an everyday rotation player, I don’t see it happening unfortunately. And I say unfortunately because I would love to see him play more.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said.

You’re on a roll tonight.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Our schedule has been more difficult

But I agree with you coolcat. I have thought that Westphal has enjoyed his quirky substitution patterns a little too much, and we have been lacking cohesiveness.

by MichaelMack on Jan 22, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's kind of like one of those things

that works mysteriously until it stops working, and then you try to recapture the magic and it’s not working.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ugh

Teams the Kings have beaten:

Memphis (with AI, they sucked then)
Utah (they had a bad start)
Golden State (Captain Jack atrocity)
Oklahoma City (same as Kings, home game)
Houston (we had some big games from key players, and their big guys didn’t)
New York (when they were sucking top-pick bad)
New Jersey (nuff said)
New Orleans (no Cp3)
Indiana (not good, home game)
Washington (home game)
Milwaukee (we’re a better team)
Denver (home game)
Denver (home game)

Teams the Kings have lost to:

OKC (road game)
New Orleans (they had CP3, road game)
San Antonio (road game)
Atlanta (c’mon, obviously)
Chicago (this was when Bulls were rolling and Noah was an all-star)
Dallas (road game)

I can go on with the list, but I’m not going: the Kings are losing the same types of games they were losing before this losing streak, except during the streak the Kings have had more of those losable games.

IT’S NOT FARKIN’ MAGIC

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There's one difference

I think it would be hard to deny that they are playing pretty bad basketball currently. Maybe it’s the grind of a long season starting to get to them – but earlier in the schedule they were rarely out of a ball game, and played with energy and passion every night.

That’s not really the case right now.

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 23, 2010 5:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

every night?

Game where there were complaints on the lack of effort:
The game in memphis, Nov 23
The first Chicago game
Miami Dec 6
The first half of Chicago
The first Philly game (right before the ra-ra we almost beat the Lakers bit)
… and more, and the Kings dropped bad quarters all over the place.

We’ve all agreed that this teams development shouldn’t be judged solely on wins-and-losses, but that’s what’s happening. Look at this schedule, notice a pattern? Most of the Ls are against teams that have an "at " in their name.

The current loss streak (and thereby the current “lack of effort” streak) started on Jan 12. It’s been eleven frikkin days since the Kings started faltering. It started with a home game against Orlando (championship contender!) and the rest have been road games for a team that has been dropping nuggets on the road all season. Sure, maybe with the losses building there is deterioration in the ranks. The team probably hasn’t figured out how to integrate Kevin Martin properly without blowing up everyones minutes. But how much of your discontent is on the team, or on the W-L column?

I can understand being angry that the team is not living up to expectations that were too high, as long as you recognize how high your expectations were. But to say the team isn’t winning as it should might be the wrong argument to make. Then to say that the team as a whole is different means that you’re not willing to accept any mediocrity from any of your young players – which again, fine, you can do that, but please recognize how much you’re asking them to do.

I don’t know why people are getting so down on the team right now. Well, actually I think I know, and I think those are the wrong reasons to be mad at the team. This season, you won’t be truly happy as a Kings fan if all you’re thinking about is the W-L column, unfortunately. They’re just not at that level yet.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 5:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have high expectations iashwash

But I see a product on the floor that is playing poorly, and lacks the energy I’ve seen most of the season (sorry I said “every night” – I was generalizing). I just think it’s fair to debate the “why”.

And please don’t put arguments in my mouth. I don’t really care about the wins and losses so much as the improvement in general and developing a core of this team that Petrie can add around.

My problem with your argument (and pookey’s) is that you both appear to reflexively attack when anyone questions the coaching staff. Shouldn’t they be evaluated as the proper long-term fit for this franchise, or have we all decided that PW is definitely the guy, based on a decent run in the first half of the season?

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 23, 2010 6:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, sorry, my writing isn’t all that fantastic – many of the “yous” weren’t you directly, but rather hypothetical yous or you as in CC.

Shouldn’t they be evaluated as the proper long-term fit for this franchise, or have we all decided that PW is definitely the guy, based on a decent run in the first half of the season?

Ah, come on. I haven’t done this, have I? This line of argumentation (starting with the coolcat comment) is the only time I’ve gotten hot and bothered about people getting mad about PW. Hell, you’re talking to the guy that wanted Coach Thib and all his red-eyed goodness.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 6:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They also beat

Minnesota and the Bulls in the comeback game. You’re right, it’s not exactly a marquee list of conquered foes.

I think their bad streak really began the game after Sactown Night when they laid the dud at home against Philly. Including that game, they’ve lost 11 of their last 12.

I think where they really played poorly was in the recent games against Philly and the Wiz.

They’re a young team, the road has been brutal for them, we’ll see what they bring to the table against the Heat.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 23, 2010 7:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yup

I’m also waiting for Martin’s breakout game. That will always bode good things for this Kings team.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 8:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well....terrible.

Sergio…great 4th…Hes probably the best point for interior game with the bigs. His passing/vision is a real skill. If Bigs are in a funk (Which they always seem to be) throw in Sergio to give them a spark!

Did Donte play?

Hilton Strongarms….If there was a stat for tying his shorts on I’m sure he’d be #1 in the league.

Kmart…affraid to shoot tonight?

Beno/Omri…just a bad night on an even worse road trip. Heat tomorrow, hopefully come out buzzing and desperate for a win!

by Slikk_J on Jan 22, 2010 6:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Orlando had 12 blocks

Haiti will have 24000 $ less because of their inhumanity and shot-blocking.

"Even when I’m old and grey, I won’t be able to play it, but I’ll still love the game." — Michael Jordan

Go Kings!

by Panzerfaust on Jan 22, 2010 6:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

?

what?

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Grant Desme

A’s prospect is retiring to become a priest. He was an alumni of my college. Cal Poly. I am a sad panda.

by DaPorts! on Jan 22, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey wouldn't hurt to have a priest praying for us

""Balance your right to dissent, with your responsibility to contribute."
Gordan Ryan

by SavageBeast on Jan 22, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We could use a priest at center.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I usually start praying when Spence starts to play

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 22, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or a pope

His hat would be difficult to shoot over

the Bene Gesserit rite.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Frank Herbert, Dune

by SeattleRoyalty on Jan 22, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Pope couldn't guard Will Solomon.

What are you talking about?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

NO but he could bring in the papal guard and then it would be a game

Judgment day is coming!

by Widowwolf on Jan 22, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't sell the pope short

He was all-league in his younger days.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, odds are good Desme is a pandaphile, so you won't be lonely.

I may have misspelled a word in there.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Jan 22, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

"I dont just go tatoo any muthafucka on my chest! dis is ma life line! my LEGACY!!!

by slamson on Jan 22, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Terrible loss for us tonight.

Hopefully we bounce back tomorrow night against Miami!
Somethings got to give with Spencer though! I mean seriously how long does a funk last!
Spencer has definitely regressed from last season!

"I dont just go tatoo any muthafucka on my chest! dis is ma life line! my LEGACY!!!

by slamson on Jan 22, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not trying to be argumentative slamson

but i dont get the hatred toward spencer by so many these days. tonight he went 4 of 9 for 8 points and had 5 boards in 17 minutes. that is not amazing, but it is not terrible. i realise he is not as good as we had hoped by this stage, but i just dont get it. to pinpoint him after that game confuses me. our SG goes 1-7, our PF goes 2-8, our backup goes 1-8 and spencer draws some blame?

i totally understand that there has been some regression, but there are a number of other guys that deserve similar blame. JT and Omri have sucked equally in recent times. Not trying to start a discussion, but just pointing out my feelings (which are usually lacking in reason and thoughtfulness).

by thisismellow on Jan 22, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No no

Omri & JT have completely fallen off. Not coincidentally, the Kings are no longer winning.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yay....to think...

Kings have a chance at getting Favors or Davis….can’t wait for the draft

by getPGwithbounce on Jan 22, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still interested at seeing how this season plays out.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you watch last season?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn't watch last season after a while

And if this one goes on like this…

by Sj60640 on Jan 22, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I did watch last year.

And, guess what, this ain’t last year.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's quickly turning into last year, though ...

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're full of shit.

No it’s not.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well

Enjoy that lukewarm, half glass full of piss then. And smile while you drink it.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

With my eyes wide open or shut?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They appear to be shut :)

So keep them that way, you’re not missing much lately.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well there's an advantage I suppose.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True; carry on!

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'm going to have to watch every second of the Miami game just so I can understand your outrage.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll do this also so can I be angry at the recent "poor" performance and loose rotations by PW.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did Donte play tonight after making three early buckets?

If so, it wasn’t much. They took one of those away from him, but still.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't shoot well after that that's for sure.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I stopped playing much attention after awhile

I did watch a little bit of Sergio, though. He didn’t blow as much as some of the other guys, so that was worth a few minutes.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When you score 36 points in garbagetime

That doesn’t impress me.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's better now.

We have two of the most gifted rookies to enter the league simultaneously in a long time, one of whom I think could very well develop into one of the top 6 or so players in the NBA. That’s freakin’ huge! and if only for that reason things are much brighter now than this time last year.

And I even have some hope that we might get a new arena deal put together. That was pretty much a pipe dream just 6 months ago.

So yeah, we all want to win, and it hurts to get kicked around like tonight, but in the big scheme of things I agree with you, pookey. This is nowhere near as depressing a situation as 2008/09. That was an epic suck.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Jan 22, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought 97/98 sucked

Then Kenny Natt and Will Solomon happened.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Historically speaking

the Ed Pinckney/Joe Kleine debacle, err, I mean roster of 1987-88 wasn’t a barrel of laughs either.

When you’ve been a Kings fan as long as some of us around here have, it helps keep things in perspective.

To which Derek Smalls might add “…too much fucking perspective, mate”.

"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Jan 22, 2010 10:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was lucky enough to not be able to remember Derek Smith from my own memory.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But you couldn't you stand

To have a little LaSalle Thompson right now?

by MichaelMack on Jan 22, 2010 10:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure what difference he would have made.

The Kings desperately need what it is they don’t have, and that size in the middle to make a serious impact defensively is just not there.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 23, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said, Mucho.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Jan 22, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You watched games last season, right?

At this point last season the Kings were 10-33. Out of those33 losses, 16 were double digits. We had losses by 25, 18, 34, 15, 21, 10, 26, 23, 23, 24, 32, 11, 16, 45, 32, 19.

Starting to look like last season? Not so much

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 8:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Kings only have 27 losses so far this season Eddie.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And the margins of those losses were as follows.

13,5,19,8,14,2,7,11,8,13,2,12,7,16,13,9,10,1,8,4,7,21,12,10,2,11, and 16. Link.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Numbers prove the point, but it's not even about that

Anyone that watched the games last season knows the difference. I only brough the numbers to refresh the memory of those who may have forgotten (even mine).

Comparing last year to this year is ridiculous. Period.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

although the record is starting to look more similar to last year, the margin of losses is smaller and overall the team has been much more competitive this year.

Add to that that there’s almost no veterans playing out the string, and that we have players with upside, players who’s best years are ahead of them.

So, to me at least, this year’s kings basketball is 180 degrees (ok maybe 160 degrees) away from last years kings basketball.

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 22, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hey

When’d you start posting?

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sept 25th 2009.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My StR reading has struggled in the last three months, I’m seeing alot of references to things I missed. However, I blame part of that to the site’s exponential growth and my inability to read every single comment anymore.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're not the only one who has that problem IW.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you expect that this team was going to be at 500 when the summer started?

I thought it was crazy in December, and despite any evidence to the contrary, I think it is absolutely ludicrous now. Wanting this team to win, and expecting them to win are 2 different things.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I'm late guys

Good game, huh?

/ducks

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 7:06 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey Eddie

I got a Peruvian I’m going to toss at you. You stupid Mexican. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I feel like my 6 month old twin girls

A month ago we started them on solid foods. One of them was really into it, the other was not. First was rice cereal, then some vegetables, which they took ok. Then, we gave them some fruit, which they both loved. Now when we try to give them rice cereal or vegetables, they have a hard time with it since they have tasted that sweet fruit.
At the beginning of the season, I had low expectations, and told myself that after last season, I would not get upset by losses, and that I would just enjoy the ride. I have done well for the most part, but those games before Christmas was like eating fruit. It is hard to go back to vegetables.
As a side note, our friend Pookey once made a comment that I will always appreciate. I, like most of us, had a pretty big hatred for the Lakers. My step-dad is from LA, and has always been a fan. Luckily, he is a fan that I can respect, not a d-bag. In fact, he took me to the Laker game as a Christmas present when we came home to visit. The point is, Pookey once told someone that he doesn’t hate the Lakers, and one of the reasons is that it takes too much energy to hate. I took that advice, had a great time at the game, and I am enjoying our Kings quite a bit more this year. I realize this has nothing to do with this game, but I have no idea how to send Pookey a PM, so if you read this, thanks!

by spragueito on Jan 22, 2010 7:07 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Glad to hear you had a good time.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm totally and utterly speechless

If you told be before the game that the Kings would hold Orlando’s starting lineup to 55 pts, out rebound them by 8 on the offensive boards, and have 9 fewer turnovers, and 19 more FGA’s, I’d have guessed that we would have won by 20.

As I said, I have no words.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 22, 2010 7:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's easy to win the battle on the offensive boards when you miss 70% of your shots.

I am all silver lining, and creamy nougat.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Jan 22, 2010 7:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's nice to know you're something.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Now that's optimism I can support!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was wondering

what KMart did so good that earned him 41 minutes of play

by hapl0 on Jan 22, 2010 7:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He just came back from injury

and the coach was probably trying to keep him in shape after a long layoff. After that I have no idea; he probably asked to stay in (my guess).

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't sit a rusty player on the bench and tell his to get unrusty

You let him play in garbage time (pretty much all game). The more he can play in live games the better. The fact that his rust didn’t really hurt the Kings all that much (considering no one else was any good today), is all the more reason to get him as many minutes as possible.

That and getting into game shape like edm7 said.

by nobodyinparticular on Jan 22, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tp shake off the rust was part of it too

You stated what I was thinking well.

Cue to someone to say something about Kevin having a bad game and the Kings not winning with him

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 8:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

Nicely done.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

First question

Who had a good game?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're one step ahead

Had to wait for someone to criticize just Kevin and then ask the question.

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 8:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would argue Tyreke & Kevin came close

JT had good numbers but they were pretty hollow all things considered.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Reke was the only with a decent game

Everyone else that had a chance to make an impact in the first 3 quarters had a horrible game

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 22, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There ya go.

Kevin’s numbers were also pretty hollow held under that microscope.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Reke was weak

But he always manages to get some semblance of stats. It’s in The Blueprint.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know man..

I would be happy to see him traded. Maybe then we will get to see the energetic team we saw up until three weeks ago.
I think it would be much better to give the young promising players more play time so they could gain more experience. Aren’t we building a team for the future? It does not seem like it lately. Most of the players look like their own silhouettes. From my point of view, this is the staff fault.
Maybe I gotta be more patient, but if this continues for another month or so than yes, It probably is the staff fault.

by hapl0 on Jan 23, 2010 4:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish Westphal would stick with a lineup

and some semblance of a rotation.

Starters should be JT, Hawes, Tyreke, Kmart and take your pick at SF (I prefer Nocioni). These guys should play 25-35 minutes, more if they have it going and we are in a tight game.

Your key subs should be Brockman (weak for a third big, but that’s what you have), Beno, Omri, Donte (or Noce if Donte or Omri starts). All should play 20 minutes more or less.

That leaves some spot minutes for Sergio, Ime and Armstrong or K9 if he is activated.

Keep it consistent, give us something to build on, not a different story every night.

Our guys have lost a lot of confidence since starting the season strong, and we need a more stable situation if we’re going to turn it around. It’s time for Westphal to keep the mad scientist coat in the closet for a while.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 8:14 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

You freaking negative nancy

You always have something to complain about. Now you’re demanding that Westphal play his guys standard minutes, when previously you wanted Westphal to stop always sticking with certain guys.

It’s convenient to turn this into "Beat Up on Spencer Day," but Westphal deserves some criticism. You have to ride the hot hand. When Tyreke was starting to get it going towards the end of the third quarter, he should have remained in the game. If Spencer didn’t have it, play Thomas more. If Nocioni can’t shoot and is making poor decisions, nail his ass to the bench.

Westphal keeps going back to his starters in crunch time like he’s obligated to or something. He’s not. Ride the hand hand. Go with what and who is working until the opponent counters. In this game that probably meant closing with a lineup of JT, Thomas, Udoka, Tyreke and Beno, with Casspi as an offensive substitution.

You are requesting the coach to do two contradictory things: play all the players a set amount of minutes, and play the best matchup for a given night

If you want Westphal to “Keep it consistent, give us something to build on, not a different story every night” then the Kings WILL lose more, because they will play the guys that are part of the future and not the guys that will win now. However, to win now, Westphal has to vary his lineups, keep it fresh, motivate his guys to get the move on.

God dang it, we’re playing three rookies, two sophomores, a junior and a ragtag ensemble of youth a whole bunch of minutes. They started the season fresh and eager, and after playing a string of teams with better, more experienced talent, the team is starting to lose. Did you honestly think the Kings were going to do better in January? NO. If you did, you are completely delusional and this argument isn’t worth having (and take the fact that I’m arguing as evidence that I don’t think you’re delusional, for what it’s worth).

You cannot blame Westphal for the Kings missing all those shots. You cannot blame Westphal for the fact that the 7 footer weighs 100 pounds. You cannot insist on playing a set lineup then get angry when Westphal subs out players that you think are playing well in the game. And you certainly cannot demand stable playing times when three of your core players are about to hit the rookie wall, your star player is still trying to get in his groove, and your young players are doing what young players do: having up and down seasons. If Westphal establishes a pecking order, then he will lose this team to indifference. You don’t agree with that statement? Oh, yes you do:

I don’t want to gift youngsters minutes, I want them to earn them because they are using their ration of minutes well and contributing to a chance at winning.

You force players to earn their minutes by changing them when they aren’t earning them. Don’t start singing a new tune everytime the Kings start losing, it’s just ridiculous.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

You just got bitch slapped CC.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I might have to print that out for a read on the shitter ...

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Throw your recent arguments in there while you're at it.

You can do better.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well that's lovely.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, I'm kind of glad Spencer is not playing all that well because I like beating up on him

Of course I wish he was the second coming of Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan or name any decent to good center but I still would enjoy bagging on him. That’s kind of sick I know, it has nothing to do with his political affiliation either. I just don’t like him very much.

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 22, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tim Duncan is going down as 1 of the 20 best players ever to play the game.

Let’s not compare Spence to Timmy quite yet. (Nevermind that Dwight & Timmy were 1st overall picks.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He wasn’t comparing him, he was just saying he wished he was like them. Heck, I wish JT was more like Hakeem.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

didn't actually finish that sentence

but that doesn’t mean I’m comparing the two.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take Spencer Hawes over the #1 pick in his 2007 draft class

Spencer was the 2nd Center taken in that draft at #10.(Greg Oden)

by betweentheeyes on Jan 22, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but

if you were GP and Portland called you up and said they’d trade you Oden for Spencer, you would think about it. Even if for just a second, but you would think about it.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be an interesting dilemma

a damn fine arguement on both sides.

by betweentheeyes on Jan 22, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

This isn’t the time or place to argue Spencer-vs-Oden, but I was just trying to give you a counterpoint.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Besides

we don’t want to risk accidentally bring B l a s E d g e over here. The nightmare that would ensue…

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can have it both ways

You can have stability and still play the hot hand. I’m not saying he should play the guys a set number of minutes, but he should play them a fairly stable range of minutes, say five up or five down form a normal amount generally speaking, unless it’s a blowout or other circumstances such as injury intervene.

Unfortunately, Westphal’s recent lineups are more like he’s picking names out of a hat.

But if you want to give St. Paul a free pass while taking the players to task, that’s certainly your call.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not taking the players to task, genius

I’m fine with this Kings team and its development. I understand that 22 year olds (not even!) playing a man’s game are going to struggle as the season progresses, as the teams get deeper and as the competition heats up for playoff spots. I understand that an early hot streak against weak teams has alerted the league to take this team seriously, and play all of their starters against a bunch of guys on rookie contracts because they can come back (not last year!). I understand that coach Westphal is trying to win as many games as he can, and though I’d rather he play only the young guys and focus on development, I’m not upset about the Kings lowering their chances of picking Favors, because I see the bigger picture of what the Kings are attempting.
In short, I’m not being a self-sighted stubborn pseudo-shnob who thinks he knows more about basketball than guys getting paid millions of dollars to do it for a living, who’ve worked towards these positions their whole lives.

Oh no! You don’t understand Westphal’s lineups?!? He MUST be doing it wrong.

</end snark>

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm glad you're fired up

And it’s obvious that your understanding of the situation is right on target. And I’m glad guys who are being paid millions of dollars never make mistakes. It makes everything so much easier to understand.

We just have a difference of an opinion, but if you want to get up on your soapbox and act like an asshole, go for it.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
And I’m glad guys who are being paid millions of dollars never make mistakes.

The point. You missed it.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It must be

because it was so profound.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pissing contests are for people who’s brains can’t control their ****. I’m not getting into a name-calling thing with you (though I still insist you are a negative-nancy, the shnob statement was a bad move on my part).

I, however, am quite adamantly proud to say that you still haven’t clarified on why your opinions are so different mere weeks apart. And until you do, I’m winning this one CC, whether you like it or not.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I tried to explain above

Maybe you can reread it. I think you took me out of context, but you probably thought it was all pretty clever. It obviously took you some time to assemble it, so good effort. But I’m not really wanting to get into a tit-for-tat.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope, not out of context. And I did reread it.

 I was honestly expecting a better reply, like I said I wanted to argue because I wanted to see what your opinion was. Your opinion changes based on whether the Kings are losing or are winning. That doesn’t make sense. You can’t have Ime as your closer if you have him set only for spot minutes. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t have both. You can’t, not when you’re going to the end of the bench because of a youthful roster.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, I'm doing some work and watching this board with one eye

I don’t agree with you, but that’s fine. Boards like this don’t exist if there is too much agreement.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your icons are too similar.

I thought you were areguing with yourself.

by mayfieldcol on Jan 22, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that is funny.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

trivial point of contention

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For the record

I’m not angry with the difference between your opinion and my opinion. Many people on this blog have varied opinions than I do, and I usually don’t go into much of an effort arguing my point. My problem is the difference between your opinion tonight and your opinion two weeks ago, highlighted in the above arguments.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

stop posting.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh crap

Are we going to start the “I’m rooting for us to improve our lottery positioning” arguments? That was a nightmare last year – I think there were a hefty amount of people here actively rooting for the Kings to lose down the stretch.

I’m afraid I agree with CCR – and just because this team has improved from last season doesn’t mean there isn’t room for criticism of the coaching staff. There have been plenty of games where Coach has had players perform well in the first half then seem to forget they existed in the second half. And after 42 games I’d love to see a bit more of a coherent rotation so these guys can start developing some on-court chemistry.

Does it overly concern me? Not really – but I don’t think it’s crazy to rebut the “PW can do no wrong” wisdom that’s pretty obvious here these days.

And before you get your panties in a bunch – no, I’m not saying I want someone other than Westphal coaching this team. But let’s not forget – he was not the hottest property when the Kings tabbed him to coach this team. And he’s done this before. I think it’s fair to evaluate his performance with a critical eye to determine whether he’s the right guy for this team long term, or just for this building period.

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 23, 2010 5:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"I’m rooting for us to improve our lottery positioning"

No, I wasn’t arguing for it. I said that’s what I prefer but it makes sense to me that’s not what the Kings prefer and I’m fine with that.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 6:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not defending Westphal

Otis, this enter line of conversation should be simplified to this:

Coolcat: PW should be playing guys set minutes.
IW: Uh, really? Because two weeks ago you were all about his crazy lineups.
Coolcat: Yeah, but that’s not really different from what I was saying.
IW: Uh, yes it is.
CC: Uh, no it isn’t.
IW: Uh, yes it is.
CC: Uh, no, no it really isn’t.
IW: Uh, yeah, it really is different.

I picked coolcat as an example because he had the wordiest argument, and I remembered him specifically before talking about how he’d like Westphal to play with the lineups more. Now that the Kings are losing, the complaint is on Westphal’s too-many-lineups.

Take PW to task, go ahead. But don’t tell me his lineups are wrong solely for the perceptions you’ve had because of the W-L column, when alot of those lineup variations were things you previously openly called for. That’s just not being honest with yourself.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 6:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

CCR and I do have a difference of opinion on rotations – he wants the Kings to effort to achieve every win possible (playing Nocioni more, etc.) While that would be nice, I’m more interested in the long-term development of a core group of players.

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 23, 2010 6:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, we agree there

I’m all about the long-term development of the players (which is the Favors point I was hinting at above, which logically got construed as an argument for tanking, but that’s besides the point). Whether PW is achieving thati s a point of contention, but you have to agree that everyone thought he was doing a great job up till about 11 days ago.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 6:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And this post isn't being honest
Coolcat: PW should be playing guys set minutes.
IW: Uh, really? Because two weeks ago you were all about his crazy lineups.
Coolcat: Yeah, but that’s not really different from what I was saying.
IW: Uh, yes it is.

I’d appreciate it if you’d stick to what I actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.

I think your argument is a little too swallowed up in this retort from above:

In short, I’m not being a self-sighted stubborn pseudo-shnob who thinks he knows more about basketball than guys getting paid millions of dollars to do it for a living, who’ve worked towards these positions their whole lives.

You think the coach is infallible and above reproach. I don’t. And as I’ve said elsewhere, maybe it’s too early for him to stabilize the situation and he wants it to be messy and disjointed until he and Petrie put more pieces of the puzzle into the blender. But the team’s rebuild is not really going to start until the pegs begin to fall more into place and players have a clearcut role and expectations.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 23, 2010 7:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That retort was me being pissed off because you said my argument needed to go to the toilet.

I hardly think the coach is infallible and above reproach.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for calling you a shnob. I know I hinted at an apology before, but never actually stated it.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

What I said and meant was it was so long I needed to print it and read it on the shitter. I wasn’t implying it was total shit.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 23, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ahhhhhh

My bad. Sorry, growing up no one I knew never really read on the shitter (something about caribbean food makes your systems… uhhh, flow), so I usually miss that reference.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your first paragraph was a not bad response

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 22, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

^ Coolcat

"I make love to pressure" - Stephen Jackson

by Bluejohn on Jan 22, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

situations like this is when the up button is useful

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I had to scroll up

But I figured it out. Here it is again:

You can have it both ways
You can have stability and still play the hot hand. I’m not saying he should play the guys a set number of minutes, but he should play them a fairly stable range of minutes, say five up or five down from a normal amount generally speaking, unless it’s a blowout or other circumstances such as injury intervene.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What team does that?

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just about every successful team

and even the younger teams who are trying to be successful.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Explain what teams and give specific examples of what you mean.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One example of riding the hot hand

would the Blazers’ use of Bayless when they beat us in Portland.

He was just starting to get decent minutes due to injury, and he played more than normal and won the game for them.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Use examples of games where other teams are involved and the Kings aren't the opponent.

Then I will go along with you. Until then, I think you’re blowing hot air because you’re tired of watching your team lose.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank God

I’m not the only one blowing hot air.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't do it.

You don’t follow the league enough to be that through.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thorough^

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't follow the league religiously

But I watch enough games of enough teams to get a flavor of how they play and who they play in their lineup. But I’ve played this game with you before, Pookey, and it’s a waste of time. To be thorough it would take a little research to present the facts. If I made the point, you’d stop posting or make your play on some trivial point of contention. No, thanks.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you’d stop posting or make your play on some trivial point of contention

hmmmm….

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that is a bad example

That’s right around the time when McMillan went all-hell on the lineup and everyones minutes were changing. No one was getting set minutes during that time period, in reality. Even LMA saw his minutes changing.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

stop posting.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

which successful teams?

Dallas, Cleaveland, Orlando, Houston are always varying their minutes.

The Lakers always go back to their starters. The Spurs do it, but it’s always Parker-Ginobli-Duncan and whoever isn’t having a piss-poor game (in their championship years, that always meant Bowen or another starter). Jazz always go back to their starters. McMillan was trying to force Portland to go back to their starters (and they didn’t do well) and when he went all-hell with the rotations they picked up again.

It’s either you have a developed, veteran team and you always play those guys their minutes, or you have some youth and inexperience that you have to keep plugging and chugging to get right.

The set minute and hot hand combination only works when you have established vets and only a position or so that varies because of roster inadequacies. This Kings team does not have such a luxury.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and

Boston always goes back to their rotation guys.

The point I’m trying to make: those teams have the luxury of guys that you always have to play because they are better than the bench. However, you yourself made the statement that “there isn’t alot of talent disparity between 3 through 11”^ so in order for Westphal to have the best chance at winning, he has to be able to play whichever of those guys are playing well at the moment. He cannot do that if he has any idea of pre-suscribed minutes because he has to go 12 deep on the roster to maximize his chances of winning, which you also say should be the priority. If he does pre-suscribe minutes, then certain guys are going to get shafted (your example above shafts Sergio and Ime, two guys that you can also be previously quoted as saying should have gotten more minutes to help the team win that particular evening).

So, its either winning and using the roster in crazy, noncontinuous ways, or its development and losing and giving the kids set minutes.

^I paraphrased, too lazy to look up the exact quote, but rest assured that’s what you meant. I just saw it when I was looking for the quotes above.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

btw, anyone feel free to reply to this.

including you BlueJohn. If you think the Kings can play set minutes and stay with the hot hand to maximize wins, then feel free to interject with a solution for the below paradox:

You have Tyreke set for 36 minutes a night. He gets two quick fouls, and a Beno/Sergio led lineup has the team absolutely rolling. Tyreke comes back in the second quarter and the team goes stagnant. Do you bench him for the rest of the game? If you don’t, that kills your hot hand argument. If you do, that kills your set minutes argument. What do you do?

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

stop posting.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And thanks, by the way

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's funny, because actually the reply you replied to was from Bluejohn

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

trivial point of contention.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am with coolcat on this one

I think PW has been to whimsical as of late with his different rotations. Having him tighten it up a bit doesnt mean he has to have a rigid rotation, but it doesnt have to be so different every game, especially with such young players.

by MichaelMack on Jan 22, 2010 10:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but it doesnt have to be so different every game, especially with such young players.

Yes, yes it does. You have a bunch of players that are far from being complete that are trying to endure the rigors of an NBA season which there are not fully ready for. You can’t expect a rookie to play the same level for the whole season, which is what you would need from him in order to give him consistent minutes. Since the whole roster is basically youth (albeit some exceptions), you have to change their minutes to maximize your odds of winning any said game.

It would be one thing if Westphal was taking a guy out completely for a game for no reason (like he did with Spencer that one time… which worked), but he’s not. His minute changes are usually a reflection of performance. You can’t reward your young guys with improved minutes if they perform better if you have a set lineup, so the lineups fluctuate with matchups and performance. Greene started the season with limited minutes, earned more, got a few starts, played well, then started making dumb mistakes again and got less minutes. I think that is Westphal using minutes as a tool to ensure that when Greene plays, he’s playing in the role and to the expectations Westphal needs.

You can argue with the specific lineups Westphal uses all you want, but you can’t say he should player certain players certain amounts then get angry when the minutes change for a specific game. The whole thing is being blown out of proportion.

Having him tighten it up a bit doesnt mean he has to have a rigid rotation, but it doesnt have to be so different every game

Then what’s the criteria for a rigid rotation and what’s so different between games? Can you specifically state which rotations you think aren’t getting enough burn and which rotations are, then show me how those rotations correlate to winnings?

Zach Harper of Cowbell Kingdom usually has those lineup breakdowns, and from the ones I remember reading Westphal always did a pretty good job of putting in lineup that were most effective at winning.

This is what irritates me: Everyone was fine with the crazy rotation when the Kings were winning (in fact, CC wanted more of it). Now that the Kings have started playing better teams, and better teams on the road, and have therefore started losing, suddenly Westphals rotations are the problem and need to be fixed. Like, there is no correlation or causation, just randomly stating some issue is the problem based on personal perceptions. That’s a tiresome game to play.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 22, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You are like a pitbull on this topic

I agree with some of what you are saying – however, I think your argument that the Kings play is resulting from a more difficult schedule now is a bit of a red herring. I think it’s the nature of their play that is the issue, not the wins and losses (at least from my perspective). You’d have a very difficult time convincing me that the team – and the individual players – haven’t regressed in the last few weeks. When I look at the players individually or collectively, I have a hard time seeing any type of recent improvement.

Now, whether that is simply the result of having so many young players hitting the wall at the same time, or whether PW’s rotations are causing the on-court product, whether opposing teams have figured the team out or whether there is something else going on here…I think there is at least room for debate.

In other words, CCR is a dumbass in general, but he might be the blind squirrel that found the nut.

"When you look at him, you say: 'Holy God.'" - Pete Carril on Tyreke Evans

by otis29 on Jan 23, 2010 6:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

oh ok

I can agree with that statement, I wasn’t saying the team was infallible, and I guess that got run-around in my defense.

When I look at the players individually or collectively, I have a hard time seeing any type of recent improvement.

That’s fine. That is PW’s fault. However to say it’s largely a result of the lineup, which is what CC was saying, is disingenuous, when two weeks ago CC was calling for more lineup variety. You can’t be mad at PW for not developing the kids properly by jerking their lineups around, when he was jerking those lineups around to get the Wins you were so happy about.^ That’s wrong, or am I just completely confused on what’s going on anymore?

^Please note, I use that “you” in a general sense, not labelling any specific person.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 6:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That caveat got screwed up, I was using you as substitution for coolcat, but I had something else in my head for something else i was working on. Sorry.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 6:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There are valid points on both sides, i think but...

what makes most sense to me was ccr’s argument that guys can play set minutes with room for extenuating circumstances.

Like if KMart usually plays 9 mins of the 1st quarter but, if in a particular game, he is 4-4 from the field and 5-5 from FT and just creaming the opposing SG at the 9th minute rolls around, I say the hell with it, Im playing him for 48minutes and find out if he can erupt for 82pts.

If, on the other hand, KMart picks upa third foul with 3 mins left in the first quarter, you can bet your ass he’s not playing in the 2nd quarter. Im saving him for the 12mins in the fourth where I might need him most and that might cause his PT in that particular game to dip to, say 18 mins, instead of his usual 35mins (just an example).

If I understood it correctly, what ccr doesn’t want is playing Kmart 40mins in one game and 10mins in the next without any discernible cause (an injury, match ups etc…)

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 23, 2010 6:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You understood it correctly

becuase you didn’t try to twist it into something it wasn’t. That’s it in a nutshell.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 23, 2010 7:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This post on another board might give you a little better idea where I coming from

My point there is similar, but a little different in that it doesn’t take Westphal so much too task for what he’s doing now, but says the Kings brain trust at some point has to figure out who the core horses are and stick with them a little more. When they start to identify that group, that’s when the true rebuilding process can start to gain steam.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2010/1/22/1264635/41-games-into-the-season-mid-term#29325245

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 23, 2010 7:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That makes sense

that’s basically what you said above, and I have no problem with that argument (something along those lines is what I prefer in fact).

It, however, hasn’t been what you’ve historically said, and that’s the point I was making: you’ve always been about going with the hot hand, and at numerous times have said that PW should have stayed with certain guys rather than going back to his regular rotation (examples included Brockman, Ime and Sergio, I can look them up again if you really care) because that would have been more likely to get the win.

Either you have to be willing to sometimes let Sergio and Ime pick up alot of minutes to win the current game, or you always play your guys in the hopes that this will earn more wins long-term. These points are inherently different, and I was pointing out to you that your opinions are contradictory.

If you’ve changed your opinions, that’s fine – just say it and I’ll leave it alone. Everyone’s entitled to changing their mind, because everyone’s wrong once in a while (even million dollar proffessionals :). But to say that you were at both times right, doesn’t make sense logically.

GREENE! You’ve been superfluously apostrophe’d! - andy sims

by iashwash on Jan 23, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Geez
Either you have to be willing to sometimes let Sergio and Ime pick up alot of minutes to win the current game, or you always play your guys in the hopes that this will earn more wins long-term. These points are inherently different, and I was pointing out to you that your opinions are contradictory.

These are not contradictory. It’s not either-or. You go from a fairly stable script, and if your role players are playing well and your regulars aren’t, you adjust the subs minutes up a bit and the regulars down a bit in playing time in that game or even over a few games. But you don’t bounce them around like yoyos and then expect them to produce good results.

I am not saying it’s right. It’s just my opinion.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 23, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

do you often parrot what the Rise Guys talk about? didn’t Whitey go on and on about the rotation yesterday?

by TheFifthMookie on Jan 22, 2010 9:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would you ever listen to the Rise Guys for basketball information?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're talking to me

I’ve never heard the Rise Guys in my life.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 22, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beno

Since the team has been in the scoring slump it really seems like Brno has stopped penetrating. He’s starting to look like last yes beno. He needs to be more aggressive like he was at the begining of the year. This could be our best opportunity to get rid of him since he has such good stats right now. I like Sergio coming off the bench and getting everyone involved. Since he is a fraction of the price of beno, I could see him moving by the deadline. Dumping benos and noc’s contract would free up a ton of money!!

by elSAVinator on Jan 22, 2010 8:44 PM PST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Beno
Since the team has been in the scoring slump it really seems like Brno has stopped penetrating.

That’s what she said…

by OrangeLazarus on Jan 22, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am watching the Warriors game

and I am wondering how this would have done with a Curry/Martin back court. Sure the defense may not be the best but I think their offense would be pretty damn good together.

by DaPorts! on Jan 22, 2010 9:06 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Boo this man

Booooooo

by elSAVinator on Jan 22, 2010 9:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously?

I’m not taking you seriously any longer.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 22, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

None of my rituals are working.

I don’t know what to do next.

Short of tanning myself into leather, paint stripes on my body, bounce up and down the floor, letting the Kings score everything,

but I don’t wanna turn into one of these women.

Cougar.

There's nothing to fear but everything.

by elfboy_ on Jan 22, 2010 10:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Seems like Westphal is having ego battles with Casspi?

Since Kevin Martin is back the Kings haven’t won.. The ball is too much in Martin’s and Evans’ hands and the rest of the team hardly get the ball. Casspi is discouraged by the number of balls he gets from his teammates, so when he does get the ball he tries to do some ‘heroic’ things to show he’s there and misses a lot.
I know, I know Casspi should fight for his minutes back but Westphal has done a huge mistake. When Casspi complained about this new “hierarchy” Westphal instead of encouraging him started to decrease his minutes constantly, to remove him to the bench and not to believe in him. As a result, the Kings look broke.
The Kings are 5-0 since Kevin came back and the statistics speak for themselves:
Yesterday Kevin did 5 points in 41 minutes, 1-7 from the field and the team was -28 when he was on the court. In the last 5 games he was averaging 35.5~ mins while Casspi is getting reduced minutes (16 minutes yesterday).
I suggest the team to trade Martin rapidly… or somehow to moderate him or to give Casspi confidence again (What I don’t see happening without trading Martin or giving Casspi more minutes).
If the team continues this way it will go to devastation. Just like last year.

by kingsfan11 on Jan 23, 2010 1:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

My two cents

a) that was horrible, by any measure

b) with regard to the ccr/iashwash discussion, I think we’re now getting to the point that we need more structure. I look at it this way, you have a ton of players that you don’t know how good they are, for a while, we win, everything’s great, then we start losing, what do you do? Since you have no sure things, other than guys that are surely bad, you try combinations and see what works.

I think PW has gotten pretty close now to every reasonable combination to throw out there and try, and guess what, there’s no magic formula. We don’t have enough good players, and there’s no combination who’s sum of the parts is that much better than the underlying talent. So its time to start building a base, and run the guys out there you expect to play in the next few years so they can begin to develop some chemistry.

I think my view of the situation is somewhere in the middle of the discussion. If Evans/JT/Kevin/Omri are the guys, its time they get 30 minutes. If Donte or Spencer are in the potential list also, they need time. At some point, its time to give the responsibility to the players to fucking get to work. You tell them, you guys are the team, we’re bringing in the reincorcements in the summer, but I don’t care how badly you get your ass kicked, you’re getting time, and it on you.

c) With regard to Sergio, he is the human tempo change, but the bad plays he makes are so abysmally stupid, its hard to take him seriously. I can’t get behind giving him time, because he’s always going for the amazing, and isn’t enough of a professional. A professional gets the job done, and too often Sergio is trying the spectacular instead of doing work. If that’s changable, then I can see giving him time.

d) Beno is suffering from Kevin returning. Beno should not be on the floor at the same time as both Kevin and Tyreke. He’s proven he’s not a happy guy unless he’s involved offensively; PW needs to give him the reins of the bench, and tell him when he comes in, he’s in charge and to be aggressive. Passive, trying to fit in and play off the ball Beno sucks.

e) I really hope Kevin finds some time while he’s in Florida to visit Thorpe; he needs the help right now. What I see is a guy, really, really trying to fit in that’s in a huge shooting slump. I hope even the people that don’t like Kevin as much here give him some credit for that. That said, we’ve seen him in shooting slumps before, this one is as bad as any I remember. Here’s to hoping he breaks out of it soon; he’s obviously been bad since returning.

Free Omri...trade.Noc.

by ForThree on Jan 23, 2010 7:30 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I really like the point you made about Beno.

I never realized how true that description was until you mentioned it.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jan 23, 2010 7:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Note

From Thorpe’s twitter, he was in attendance last night in Orlando. They probably had a chat already

The future begins now...

by edm7 on Jan 23, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure they had a ton of conversation given that the Kings were in Orlando for 2 days.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea

by pookeyguru on Jan 23, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Very solid points

I couldn’t agree with you guys more about stablizing the lineups. I can understand the early season changes because of injuries and the need for PW to test and get to know the plus’ and minus’ of his players. But, if he doesn’t know what he’s got by now, he isn’t the coach people thought he was.

On Sergio, a bad pass which leads to a turnover is no worse than putting up a horrible shot. Either way we end up losing possession without scoring. If Tyreke puts up a bad shot, we don’t consider taking him out of the game, because he’s probably going to score on the next shot. The same with Sergio, he’s going to set up someone on the next pass, so he needs a little leeway too. Expecially, since he gets less PT to work on his game than any other player not in a suit.

Beno, Tyreke & Martin should never be on the court together. Beno needs to come in when we need a shooting guard. Sergio, needs to play if the rest of the team starts playing a motion type offense.

Playmaking PG’s need players moving around and getting open. If the team is going to continue to stand around like they do when Tyreke and Martin have the ball, Sergio is better off in a suit. He needs players working to get open to be able to set them up for an easy shot. Otherwise, your just making him another combo guard, and then you might as well play Beno.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
The greatest impact player in NBA History - Tim Donaghy

by HighTops on Jan 23, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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